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SkawtheFalconer
02-10-2012, 13:45
Hi

I beat my regular opponent last time we played; bit of a turn up for the books, as he usually wins, and he had Karl Franz and a knight bus (I think there were about 17 plus Karl).

He lost it for himself really, as he had no chaff and deployed his bus on a flank, meaning that I deployed virtually everything on the opposite flank. (My three dog unit deployments showed me essentially where his entire army was deploying) His knight bus butchered a unit of Nurgle warriors with banner of rage; I fluffed my dice, but thought they might have a slim chance - more importantly, they served the purpose of keeping Karl well out of the main action for majority of game, allowing me to duff up his greatswords for the win.

My opponent wants a rematch - he will have learnt from last time, and will certainly deploy Karl dead centre, making him harder to avoid. Does anyone have any thoughts about how I can win this match up?

My list is (roughly)

Level 4 on Disc
Hero with Book of Secrets (shadow) on Disc, Goldeneye
18 Warriors of Nurgle, Rage Banner, Halberds
24 Warriors of Tzeench, Hw Shields
10 Chaos Knights, MoK
3 units of 5 dogs

He had a block of greatswords, the afore mentioned bus (with a Priest in, which allowed me to redirect nicely, his hatred forcing them to pursue my warriors - I doubt he'll fall for that again), a big block of swordsmen acting as a bunker for a level 3 light wiz, a few units of huntsmen, some small detachments, and a cannon.

Is it worth going toe to toe with Karl, or is avoidance the way?

Askari
02-10-2012, 19:46
He had a block of greatswords, the afore mentioned bus (with a Priest in, which allowed me to redirect nicely, his hatred forcing them to pursue my warriors - I doubt he'll fall for that again)

Hm? Frenzy forces you to overrun/pursue, not Hatred.

Karl Franz in a knight bus is pretty potent, but also extremely expensive. It's basically the only unit in that Empire army you need to worry about, if you can hit it with two units you'll probably win - the Knights themselves are hardly excellent fighters for their cost. Just don't accept challenges with a character when facing the Emperor. Send a unit Champ in instead and Ghal Maraz needn't worry you too much.

Graxy
02-10-2012, 21:53
In this situation, dogs are your best friend in the world. He' pttng roughly 800/900pts into that unit, and at the cost of 90pts, you can keep them out of the game for 3 turns, + the 1st turn where they're doing nothing and the faact that you can pput then in bad positions where there's nothing to charge. Do this, get your disc characters to take out his war machines and then beat the snot out of his T3 low armour save units that make up the rest of his army and failing that after ddestroying his war machines, you've already got enough vp's to win

logan054
03-10-2012, 01:29
Honestly, best way to deal with Karl Franz is a chaos runeshield, get that guy into b2b contact (or corner to corner) and his silly magic weapon becomes a hand weapon, then simply watch as you own knight bus butchers his (horribly), I remember have the same problem with valten once, the guy never used him again ;)

Morax
03-10-2012, 19:47
Ahh the Chaos Rune Shield. I remember the days I used to run a Chaos Lord on Dragon with Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Rune Shield, Talisman of Protection and Warrior bane. With a 2+/3++ and the stats of a Chaos Lord backed by a dragon, most things just folded before him. Lots of points but man was he effective.

CyderPyrate89
05-10-2012, 15:13
Chip a few wounds off with the MoT wizard and nerf their M with Shadow magic to make sure your knights get the charge.

logan054
06-10-2012, 11:28
Ahh the Chaos Rune Shield. I remember the days I used to run a Chaos Lord on Dragon with Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Rune Shield, Talisman of Protection and Warrior bane. With a 2+/3++ and the stats of a Chaos Lord backed by a dragon, most things just folded before him. Lots of points but man was he effective.

You could probably get away with a exalted champion on a horse ;) the dragon might be a little OTT :P

SkawtheFalconer
10-10-2012, 17:47
Thanks all (and thanks Askari, hadn't realized the rule about hatred forcing pursuit had been dropped from 7th ed), my opponent has (I think) seen sense and is now playing Warriors! :)

Morax
11-10-2012, 13:36
You could probably get away with a exalted champion on a horse ;) the dragon might be a little OTT :P

Ahh but OTT is the point. I ran the risk of cannons but other than that he won most games by himself. The rest of the list largely showed up to watch him go.

SkawtheFalconer
12-10-2012, 20:25
Incidentally, I did end up playing Karl again, and just bogged him down with Chaos hounds (mentally thanking Graxy all the way!)