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thrawn
02-10-2012, 15:22
So now that we've seen the first wave, any word on what will the second wave consist of? I want to buy some more CSM and some cultists, but before i ebay some dark vengeance cultists will there be new ones? will there be new CSM? and if so, when can we expect them?

Thanks!

Maidel
02-10-2012, 15:38
Well every unit in the rule book should have a model, so anything in the second wave is a resculpt of an old one.

malisteen
02-10-2012, 16:49
Well every unit in the rule book should have a model, so anything in the second wave is a resculpt of an old one.
Or a regular release of stuff in the starter box. Cultists in particular are needed pretty badly.

Johnmclane
02-10-2012, 17:23
Biggest question: will there be a second wave?

Charistoph
02-10-2012, 17:39
Biggest question: will there be a second wave?

Yes, there always is. The real question is, "When is the second wave?" It could be in 2 1/2 weeks, or 2 1/2 years.

Bonzai
02-10-2012, 17:47
Cultists and Hellbrutes will probably be 2nd wave, as well as chosen kits if they come out with them. Also rummored that there will be a new Abbaddon sculpt. Probably a finecast wave for whatever older models that are still metal. Havent heard any rumors for other new units, so the real question will be if there is enough for a 3rd wave.

AlphariusOmegon20
02-10-2012, 18:10
Or a regular release of stuff in the starter box. Cultists in particular are needed pretty badly.

I'd expect GW to finecast the older metal cultists before sculpting a plastic kit for the time being, just to get them out.

thrawn
02-10-2012, 18:26
so nothing confirmed then? i remember reading that CSM themselves would be re-done but i guess that's wishful thinking.

i guess i gotta shop for some DV cultists on ebay? dang, i was hoping for new ones. the DV ones are really nice, i just hate having 20 versions of the exact same model.

bork da basher
02-10-2012, 18:31
CSM NEEDS! to be re done they just stand out like a sore thumb, old outdated and just bad models. i'll be disappointed if they don't. so much can be done from that one kit. a multipart chosen box would be just as good if not better too.

wartorngetahroun74
02-10-2012, 18:36
I'm hoping for a plastic Abaddon though he will probably be finecast

Charistoph
02-10-2012, 18:51
Special Characters usually are not designed for bulk selling, as usually a person will only buy one. So expecting plastic for a SC is a stretch at this time.

Eddie Chaos
02-10-2012, 20:05
well based on the face that we don't have plastic deffcoptas yet I'm gunna say we wont get cultists, chosen or a hellbrute for quite some time.

IF we get a second wave, my moneys on plastic cult marines and maybe new bikes.

Lets just try to be happy with what we have for the rest of this month at least guys :P

Charistoph
02-10-2012, 20:16
There was a rumor floating around of a second wave of CSM models in mid-October, but the thread moved so quickly, that I didn't see any support or denouncings of it,

Askari
02-10-2012, 20:41
Special Characters usually are not designed for bulk selling, as usually a person will only buy one. So expecting plastic for a SC is a stretch at this time.

Emperor Karl Franz for Fantasy is a plastic kit. Sure they also lumped in bits for a generic General and Wizard, but it says Karl Franz on the box, and they could easily do the same for a new Termie Lord/Abaddon kit.

thrawn
02-10-2012, 22:33
Special Characters usually are not designed for bulk selling, as usually a person will only buy one. So expecting plastic for a SC is a stretch at this time.

the new aspiring champion is plastic, and it's unlikely anyone will buy more then one.

i am happy about the current release, i just wanna know if i should spend more money buying the current CSM or wait for new ones?

Flufflyrabbit
02-10-2012, 23:16
Looking at the upcoming 6ED codex regular CSMs seems to be solid choice. Imo it would be the right move for GW to release a redone-CSM kit. I'm pretty sure these will be selling like hotcakes. If so, all we need is a Heavy weapon upgrade kit for Havocs (no models, just the weaponsprues). I'll definetly buy 5 of these boxes at the very least, with some sprues along with it.

Charistoph
02-10-2012, 23:31
the new aspiring champion is plastic, and it's unlikely anyone will buy more then one.

Why? He can be used for at least 4 types of units off the top of my head. Champs for CSM & Havoks, a member of Chosen, or a cheap Lord. But the only reason for more than one Abbaddon is to to use him as bits.


i am happy about the current release, i just wanna know if i should spend more money buying the current CSM or wait for new ones?

CSM are not likely to be in the second wave. Plastic cults, Havoks, and Oblits/Maulers, with all the rest of the metal characters being converted to Finecast, are likely. Some other rumors have the new DV models andChaos Bikes being part of it, but again, I didn't see much beyond them.

Hengist
02-10-2012, 23:49
Unless I've missed my count, Chaos Marines have already received at least as many new units (4 characters, 2 squads, 2 vehicles - and that's not counting Dark Vengeance, which would raise those numbers to 5, 4 and 3) as the Grey Knights, Blood Angels or Space Wolves got with their new codices (albeit far fewer than the Dark Eldar or Necrons, but then those factions were getting a proper revamp, Chaos evidently aren't). I've the strong suspicion that what we've seen is all we're going to get until the next edition. Weirdly-posed midget Warmasters all round!

Brotheroracle
03-10-2012, 00:25
What new squads (barring DV)?

Hengist
03-10-2012, 00:28
Mutilators and the Raptor/Assault Marine box. I should have been more clear, and said new kits, rather than new units.

thrawn
03-10-2012, 00:45
Mutilators and the Raptor/Assault Marine box. I should have been more clear, and said new kits, rather than new units.

your probably right, too bad <sigh>

when you compare the new chosen to the current CSM it's like parking a Hyundai next to a Ferrari, but I guess i'll have to settle and buy a box of the current CSM.

blackcherry
03-10-2012, 00:46
Why the hate for regular CSM? They had a partial resculpt when the last codex came out and to be honest they still look very good as models. But then I dislike GWs habit of putting spikes on everything to make it chaos, that the rest of Warseer so clearly loves, so I would guess I'm in a minority here.

DivineVisitor
03-10-2012, 00:48
Why? He can be used for at least 4 types of units off the top of my head. Champs for CSM & Havoks, a member of Chosen, or a cheap Lord. But the only reason for more than one Abbaddon is to to use him as bits.

If folk are anything like me they wouldn't buy more than one of the plastic characters because they dont want every champion made from/looking exactly the same. Saying that il not be buying any Champions or using the Chosen from DV. The warped look doesn't cut it for me.

kafrique
03-10-2012, 00:59
I wouldn't be surprised to see another one or two waves before 2014. Sure, SW and Nids got semi-screwed and some old armies, like Orks, are still sitting on lots of old/metal stuff, but the newest releases: Necrons, DE, GK, and BA, all got at least one extra wave (maybe GK didn't?) I think going forward most armies will get similar treatment.

I still wouldn't hold out hope for a whole new CSM kit though, we haven't seen old plastic troops get replaced for either game since the awful Skaven and DE were almost/entirely redone. If anything gets replaced this edition I'd expect the basic tactical squad, and them only because the entire SM line is in plastic already. If there are new CSM I'd expect them to be 5 to a box with lots of options: some combination of fist, claws, melta, plasma, flamer, pistols, chainswords, bolters, heavy bolter, autocannon, maul, sword, axe, banners, and lots of heads all in one box, with the expectation that you'll build basics, chosen, and havocs all from the same box, kitbashing with tacs/devs/whatever to make options that aren't included. Like the SW box.

brionl
03-10-2012, 03:11
Has anybody gotten a peek inside the Raptors box? Loyalist assault marines are about half tac marine, half specialist sprue. Could be a precedent.

Nurgling Chieftain
03-10-2012, 03:53
Why the hate for regular CSM? ...to be honest they still look very good as models.Hear, hear. I adore the current Chaos Marine plastics. Periodically I worry that they're going to be replaced, and then I remember how many of them I still have on sprues sitting around. :p

prowla
03-10-2012, 06:19
Now that I look at the C:CSM, the Rhino/Pred/Vindi pictures look a bit different from current models - all having identical flames coming out from the exhaust pipes and gun barrels being more fused to the "gargoyle heads". The pics are in the same style than the "Hellfeaster" pic leaked before DV came out.

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2012, 06:38
well based on the face that we don't have plastic deffcoptas yet I'm gunna say we wont get cultists, chosen or a hellbrute for quite some time.

IF we get a second wave, my moneys on plastic cult marines and maybe new bikes.

Lets just try to be happy with what we have for the rest of this month at least guys :P

On the other hand, We did get new plastic nobz a couple months after Black Reach came out. Based on that, I could see cultists and Hellbrute in multipart kits, and chosen stay in the starter for now.


Emperor Karl Franz for Fantasy is a plastic kit. Sure they also lumped in bits for a generic General and Wizard, but it says Karl Franz on the box, and they could easily do the same for a new Termie Lord/Abaddon kit.

there is already a plastic terminator lord kit that is quite poipular. They are not going to redo it to add Abbadon when it would be easier and cheaper to make a separate finecast of a new Abbadon at some point.


Has anybody gotten a peek inside the Raptors box? Loyalist assault marines are about half tac marine, half specialist sprue. Could be a precedent.

153817

There is the raptors sprue. Enjoy

As for wave 2 kits, what I would say are high priorities are cultists, which look to be popular and big sellers, maybe the hellbrute, as the new style is a lot different and the old metal dread is terrible. Then next on the list would things like havocs, who could use the Devastator precedent and have a heavy weapon sprue mixed with a 5 man CSM sprue. Noise Marines, Plague Marines, and Thousand Sons all need plastic kits before Berzerkers get looked at. A year or two out I'd guess we will see a 3 pack of obliterators/mutilators in plastic.

Voss
03-10-2012, 07:06
Emperor Karl Franz for Fantasy is a plastic kit. Sure they also lumped in bits for a generic General and Wizard, but it says Karl Franz on the box, and they could easily do the same for a new Termie Lord/Abaddon kit.
Different tho. That kit is really to sell a big monster not kf. The existing plastic terminator lord already sells. Kf really just fit into some dead space on the sprue

Clang
03-10-2012, 07:16
As the new Mutilators are finecast, surely that makes plastic Obiterators less likely - otherwise GW would simply have made a combined 'Mutilators or Obiterators' kit with shared bits?

Cultist and Helbrute kits would make a lot of sense, but given the non-appearance of a deffkopta kit for orks after several years, maybe GW disagrees and wants us to just buy more starter boxes...

Askari
03-10-2012, 07:28
Different tho. That kit is really to sell a big monster not kf. The existing plastic terminator lord already sells. Kf really just fit into some dead space on the sprue

I wasn't saying it was likely they'd do it. I was saying the phrase "Special Characters in plastic is asking a bit much" is incorrect.

Charistoph
03-10-2012, 07:31
there is already a plastic terminator lord kit that is quite poipular. They are not going to redo it to add Abbadon when it would be easier and cheaper to make a separate finecast of a new Abbadon at some point.

Or take a page from PP, and just make a Finecast Abaddon upgrade sprue for the Terminator Lord ala the Crisis Suit Commander and Broadside upgrades...

Importman
03-10-2012, 09:15
I would be happy to get some cult marines in any near future release.
GW can take back their flying turkey and hideously deformed monstrosity sculpts which is so offensive I can say their name. Heck GW can take back all of their initial chaos release for some cult marines IMHO.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

KingDeath
03-10-2012, 10:09
Why the hate for regular CSM? They had a partial resculpt when the last codex came out and to be honest they still look very good as models. But then I dislike GWs habit of putting spikes on everything to make it chaos, that the rest of Warseer so clearly loves, so I would guess I'm in a minority here.

They lack detail, have stupid poses and the cast quality ( especialy the metaltrim on their legs is often flawed, which can ruin the entire miniature )is quite bad.
New csms with the DV armourstyle but less/no tentacles/flesh/eyeballs ( they aren't Chosen after all ) would be ideal imo.

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2012, 10:28
As the new Mutilators are finecast, surely that makes plastic Obiterators less likely - otherwise GW would simply have made a combined 'Mutilators or Obiterators' kit with shared bits?

Cultist and Helbrute kits would make a lot of sense, but given the non-appearance of a deffkopta kit for orks after several years, maybe GW disagrees and wants us to just buy more starter boxes...

Mutilators are a quick finecast model to get them out there and cover the unit so third parties dont swoop in and fill the gap. Given the similarities of Mutilators and Obliterators (arms are the main difference) and the precedent of some models to be finecast for a short time before being replaced by plastic (Hive tyrant, Daemon Flamers) I can easily see them doing a plastic 3 pack for a later wave.

Depulsor
03-10-2012, 10:51
Why the hate for regular CSM? They had a partial resculpt when the last codex came out and to be honest they still look very good as models. But then I dislike GWs habit of putting spikes on everything to make it chaos, that the rest of Warseer so clearly loves, so I would guess I'm in a minority here.

Well... if you look at the details, they are worse than the normal marines which came out long before them.
I was actually very disappointed, when they were re-released them last time with minor changes.

And now, as we have the very nice chosen from DV, which show us, what is possible in style AND execution on plastic miniatures...
how can anyone still be happy with the old standard CSM??? Maybe its bad eyesight? :p

Hengist
03-10-2012, 11:52
Mutilators are a quick finecast model to get them out there and cover the unit so third parties dont swoop in and fill the gap. Given the similarities of Mutilators and Obliterators (arms are the main difference) and the precedent of some models to be finecast for a short time before being replaced by plastic (Hive tyrant, Daemon Flamers) I can easily see them doing a plastic 3 pack for a later wave.
Surely very unlikely? Citadel haven't launched any new sculpts in finecast - and the Mutilators are new sculpts, not just reworked Obliterators, obvious as the design similarities are - only to promptly replaced them in plastic; the Hive Tyrant and Flamers were both just resin recasts of metals which had been around for several years.

If anybody's actually seen the codex yet, that should contain our answer; if there's a wave of models intended for next month, they'll be in there. Otherwise, what we've already got is all we're going to get.

Hengist
03-10-2012, 11:55
Well... if you look at the details, they are worse than the normal marines which came out long before them.
I was actually very disappointed, when they were re-released them last time with minor changes.

And now, as we have the very nice chosen from DV, which show us, what is possible in style AND execution on plastic miniatures...
how can anyone still be happy with the old standard CSM??? Maybe its bad eyesight? :p
I've no real problems with the Chaos Marine sculpts, they're not as exciting as the brand new ones, but if you're careful about mixing and matching heads, pads and other distinctive bits they look just fine once painted. The same applies to the Terminators and other kits of similar vintage.

thrawn
03-10-2012, 14:14
If folk are anything like me they wouldn't buy more than one of the plastic characters because they dont want every champion made from/looking exactly the same. Saying that il not be buying any Champions or using the Chosen from DV. The warped look doesn't cut it for me.

exactly, i will only ever buy one as well, why should i have 3 champions that all look the same?

anywho getting back on topic, i'll check the new 'dex, if nothing is there then i will buy the old one and some chosen on ebay and try to converty them.

gt4948c
03-10-2012, 14:39
I'm not convinced any second wave if there of one would be shown in the codex. The Dark Eldar codex didn't have any pictures of the wracks, talos/cronos, or beastmasters

Charistoph
03-10-2012, 14:50
I guess it would depend on the speed of the 2nd wave. If in 2 weeks after codex release, then I would be surprised if they weren't in there, as this 2nd wave is scheduled to take advantage of payday lag so people buy the new gribblies now and the replacement gribblies in 2 weeks. If longer, then I would be surprised to see them.

Depulsor
03-10-2012, 16:41
I've no real problems with the Chaos Marine sculpts, they're not as exciting as the brand new ones, but if you're careful about mixing and matching heads, pads and other distinctive bits they look just fine once painted. The same applies to the Terminators and other kits of similar vintage.

Well...its true, that if you are very carefull with mixing and matching, some of the parts of the old CSM are fine.
But "out of the Box" they are some of the worst plastic troop choises in the game right now. Maybe even the worst.
They have less fine details than the ancient normal marines. Just look at the legs. :cries:
But also overall... where normal marines have fine tech details, the old CSM have something like a cartoony big arrow from a chaosstar or something like that.

Hengist
03-10-2012, 17:48
Well, yeah, they're also certainly not Citadel's best plastics either. I had hoped that between a multi-part Chosen box and the Raptors/Assault box, it might have been possible to find substitutes for the whole of the standard kit. Ah well...

Mit Gas
03-10-2012, 17:51
They should just make a new chosen/normal CSM dual kit. 5 guys - we'll have to pay through the nose but every is happy. and a decent upgrade for the cults. One box with enough parts to make 10 of each. That way, they'll sell the the standard CSM kit like mad and the upgrade pack will sell pretty well too. my purse will cry though.

skorczeny
04-10-2012, 04:28
Unless I am crazy - looking at GW site - I can't find a helbrute or a chaos dreadnought kit. Seems odd they would remove an existing model from the range, leaving a gap where none existed before.

Hopefully, this suggests there will be a second wave soon, and with a new helbrute kit. I don't want to have to buy DV just to get a helbrute, when they just had a perfectly good model for it.

Charistoph
04-10-2012, 05:21
The metal Chaos Dreadnought has been off for a while, if I remember correctly, but I otherwise agree, whole heartedly.

Cap'n Shings
04-10-2012, 10:05
Surely a multipart plastic Helbrute kit is a must? What, with no (horrible) metal Dread anymore and only the one Helbrute from DV. We ned weapon options.

Especially when you consider the number of Loyalist Dread kits.

BTJ
04-10-2012, 10:50
I'd say in 3-4 months, maybe a few more, we'll see a second wave. Hopefully it'll have plastic obliterators/mutilators(who aren't a wholly new sculpt, so that argument's not entirely valid), cultists, and chosen. And on the subject of plastic special characters, they only exist as part of a large kit, none of them have their own single sprue plastic kit yet

Beppo1234
04-10-2012, 10:57
ah, the standard CSM kit is fine. Sure it's a tiny bit wonky, but it's hardly noticeable if you put the effort in at the paint job stage.

I'm expecting a multi part hellbrute, and multi part chosen kit (which would have lots of extra bits for upgrading your standard csm). I would have said cultists directly from the DV set as a stand alone kit... but seeing that the DV sprues are a crazy mix of minis on each frame, that won't be happening for a while.

as others have said, the oblit/mutilator plastic box set must be in the pipeline somewhere, but not for a while. Yes they've used FC as a hold over until getting the plastic done... but I don't think they'd do FC if the hold over was only a month or two.

KingDeath
04-10-2012, 13:48
ah, the standard CSM kit is fine. Sure it's a tiny bit wonky, but it's hardly noticeable if you put the effort in at the paint job stage.
.

My main problem with the kit ( aside from being utterly boring ) is the rather poor ( still not quite as bad as Firewarriors ) cast quality when it comes to the metaltrim.
Unless the problem is solved by resculpting the problematic trims, even the best paintjob won't be able to save the miniature.

Hengist
04-10-2012, 13:51
I'd say in 3-4 months, maybe a few more, we'll see a second wave. Hopefully it'll have plastic obliterators/mutilators(who aren't a wholly new sculpt, so that argument's not entirely valid), cultists, and chosen. And on the subject of plastic special characters, they only exist as part of a large kit, none of them have their own single sprue plastic kit yet
Mutilators are a derivative design, but they are a completely new sculpt. If you expect Citadel to replace a brand new kit 3 - 4 months months after release, then you're living in fantasyland.

Nurgling Chieftain
04-10-2012, 22:45
Mutilators are a derivative design, but they are a completely new sculpt.Are you sure? Looks like new arms and heads on the same bodies, to me.

Maidel
04-10-2012, 23:02
Mutilators are a derivative design, but they are a completely new sculpt. If you expect Citadel to replace a brand new kit 3 - 4 months months after release, then you're living in fantasyland.

depends on what you call a 'new sculpt'.

GW went through a period of creating 1 figure, then modifying it and casting multipule models from that one, so, for example, you had the same basic sculpt, but one had a powersword, the other had a chainsword, but the body was in the same position. This looks identical to me. Ive just studied the models on the GW website and the sole difference between the second oblit and the first multialtor is the face (and the arms obviously, but they are separate parts.)

So, same bodies, new faces and arms.

Chem-Dog
05-10-2012, 01:42
so the real question will be if there is enough for a 3rd wave.

Legion and god specific stuff could fill a wave by itself, even if not supported by the Codex people will still build >insert Legion Name here< CSM forces and will want bespoke pieces. IF GW don't do it, third parties will find a way.


I'd expect GW to finecast the older metal cultists before sculpting a plastic kit for the time being, just to get them out.

The old Paul Muller Cultists?! Sweet mercy that might actually encourage me to buy resin models. But they do have fully functioning moulds of the DV cultists, so it would be kinda weird to take that step backwards. Question is, do Cultists need to be available separately from DV to protect the company's interests?


Emperor Karl Franz for Fantasy is a plastic kit. Sure they also lumped in bits for a generic General and Wizard, but it says Karl Franz on the box, and they could easily do the same for a new Termie Lord/Abaddon kit.

I would think of it as more of a case of lumping Karl Franz on to the kit rather than the other way around, generic character on a mount is a pretty standard release, after all. Thinking on it a little though, this makes a certain amount of sense. A few unique pieces bunged on to a sprue which is often a bit sparsely populated and bingo, you sell more of a single product code because people buying generic HQ option#3 are buying the same kit as those buying SC option#1. The usual problems with Plastic kits are largely immaterial when it comes to single characters, stuff like mould-line placement can be tackled a lot more easily with one man then they can with five and detail isn't an issue, some of the pieces in the SM commander kit are tiny.




CSM are not likely to be in the second wave. Plastic cults, Havoks, and Oblits/Maulers, with all the rest of the metal characters being converted to Finecast, are likely. Some other rumors have the new DV models andChaos Bikes being part of it, but again, I didn't see much beyond them.

Haven't all of the CSM Characters already made the jump to resin? I bought Huron about six months ago and he was resin already.


Why the hate for regular CSM? They had a partial resculpt when the last codex came out and to be honest they still look very good as models. But then I dislike GWs habit of putting spikes on everything to make it chaos, that the rest of Warseer so clearly loves, so I would guess I'm in a minority here.

Seriously, you haven't seen many discussions on the topic then, there's a good number of us who would prefer something a little more distinct than Astartes plus spikes. Jes Goodwin's concepts for the different Legions' looks according to the Mark of armour they were commonly equipped with at the time of the Heresy have echoes in the current cult models but there should be more harking back to the Heresy in general. Specifically, if you look at any number of Loyalist releases in recent years Mk's II-V are increasingly featured CSM still seem to be stuck in generic MK VII with horns mode.
I'm not naive enough to hope they'll re-do regular CSM's but I do hope for a bunch of alternate parts I can mix with them to make the Cult Unit/Affiliated Legion of my choice without having to be a Citadel standard Sculptor, after all, that's what I'm paying for.


Mutilators are a quick finecast model to get them out there and cover the unit so third parties dont swoop in and fill the gap. Given the similarities of Mutilators and Obliterators (arms are the main difference) and the precedent of some models to be finecast for a short time before being replaced by plastic (Hive tyrant, Daemon Flamers) I can easily see them doing a plastic 3 pack for a later wave.

Yeah, it's not surprising, given GW's obvious concern about third party companies. This is why I'm hoping the rumours around a set of plastic cult/legion bits are not unfounded. Specifically, Noise Marines, as neither of the kits available for them are actually much help with building squads, especially as it now seems I have to have 10 men is a squad to access the Blast Master there's no way of doing it without having a gazillion Blastmasters left over.



exactly, i will only ever buy one as well, why should i have 3 champions that all look the same?

Snip: This one has a Sword. Snip: This one has a Fist. Snip: This one has a Mace. It's not hard to see the appeal of a relatively cheap (yet still well detailed) model that's easy to convert, with four versions your same Champion can be equipped for every eventuality (even more significant as you can apparently pick which Power tool weapon you need for whichever enemy you're facing).
Furthermore, my fairly limited experience with the Warhammer plastic Characters leads me to believe the head will be a separate component (or at least easily removed and replaced) a bit of smart swapping of parts and re-positioning could make that one model into a character with any number of different tabletop roles. The backpack alone would be worth keeping aside for an easy way to WYSIWYG a character.

mrtn
05-10-2012, 09:37
Surely very unlikely? Citadel haven't launched any new sculpts in finecast - and the Mutilators are new sculpts, not just reworked Obliterators, obvious as the design similarities are - only to promptly replaced them in plastic; the Hive Tyrant and Flamers were both just resin recasts of metals which had been around for several years.
As others I'm convinced that they are not new, they're just new heads and arms for the old bodies. In GW terms that's a super quick hack-job and shouldn't rule out a plastic kit.

If anybody's actually seen the codex yet, that should contain our answer; if there's a wave of models intended for next month, they'll be in there. Otherwise, what we've already got is all we're going to get.

Eh? Many armies have had second waves with models not featured in the armybook/codex. You won't find the plastic Warp Lightning Cannon in the skaven armybook.

Hengist
05-10-2012, 12:01
depends on what you call a 'new sculpt'... Ive just studied the models on the GW website and the sole difference between the second oblit and the first multialtor is the face (and the arms obviously, but they are separate parts.)

So, same bodies, new faces and arms.
You are in fact correct! The slightly less-awful paintjobs do a reasonable job of disguising it, but the bodies are indeed the same. It's particularly obvious when you compare the rightmost Obliterator with the rightmost Mutilator. That doesn't mean that I don't still think it monumentally unlikely that Citadel sculpted new parts, and went to the effort of sorting out box art and all that just to withdraw and replace them almost immediately.

BTJ
05-10-2012, 13:45
You are in fact correct! The slightly less-awful paintjobs do a reasonable job of disguising it, but the bodies are indeed the same. It's particularly obvious when you compare the rightmost Obliterator with the rightmost Mutilator. That doesn't mean that I don't still think it monumentally unlikely that Citadel sculpted new parts, and went to the effort of sorting out box art and all that just to withdraw and replace them almost immediately.

Ever see how long the metal possessed kit lasted? And the new parts you mention are two heads and four arms, and the box art was just a photoshopped picture as opposed to full blown art like they used to do. As well as that, in comparison to the rest of the releases, the mutilator parts look like they were a last minute rush job. I'd actually say the relative lack of effort makes it more likely that there'll be a combined plastic kit sooner rather than later.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 14:10
Ever see how long the metal possessed kit lasted? And the new parts you mention are two heads and four arms, and the box art was just a photoshopped picture as opposed to full blown art like they used to do. As well as that, in comparison to the rest of the releases, the mutilator parts look like they were a last minute rush job. I'd actually say the relative lack of effort makes it more likely that there'll be a combined plastic kit sooner rather than later.

No, how long did the metal possesed kit last?


You are in fact correct! The slightly less-awful paintjobs do a reasonable job of disguising it, but the bodies are indeed the same. It's particularly obvious when you compare the rightmost Obliterator with the rightmost Mutilator. That doesn't mean that I don't still think it monumentally unlikely that Citadel sculpted new parts, and went to the effort of sorting out box art and all that just to withdraw and replace them almost immediately.

The paint job makes a MASSIVE difference. The oblits look like a child did them by comparason. OR perhaps they are the old metal ones and finecast really does make a difference..

BTJ
05-10-2012, 14:35
No, how long did the metal possesed kit last?


Barely a year, if even. And I'd say a lot more work went into them than into the mutilators

Maidel
05-10-2012, 14:39
Barely a year, if even. And I'd say a lot more work went into them than into the mutilators

What was the reason why they were removed? (Ive never payed much attention to the chaos boxes, ive never bought one appart from the noise marines).

stormnut
05-10-2012, 15:37
Lets not forget the metal Terminator Lord that was released, what 3 months or so before the new plastic Terminator lord.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 15:41
Lets not forget the metal Terminator Lord that was released, what 3 months or so before the new plastic Terminator lord.

Its not really the same as that model is still available.

loveless
05-10-2012, 15:41
What was the reason why they were removed?

They were horrible. They were also swiftly replaced with the rather nice (though currently overpriced) plastic kit.

stormnut
05-10-2012, 15:43
Its not really the same as that model is still available.

True, but unless they finecast it, I would not be surprised if they are just working threw the stock and discontinue it as soon as it is sold out.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 15:52
True, but unless they finecast it, I would not be surprised if they are just working threw the stock and discontinue it as soon as it is sold out.

Well it was a good few years ago now, so I highly doubt they made THAT much stock!

stormnut
05-10-2012, 15:54
Well it was a good few years ago now, so I highly doubt they made THAT much stock!

But with the plastic kit I would not be surprised if there unit sales are near 0

Maidel
05-10-2012, 15:56
But with the plastic kit I would not be surprised if there unit sales are near 0

Seeing as how the plastic kit is 2.50 more, I wouldnt be surprised if its the other way around (at least from mail order)

Scammel
05-10-2012, 16:10
And I'd say a lot more work went into them than into the mutilators

NO. The Mutilators might have silly mouths but they're not on the same level as those monstrosities. Those... things made the Pumbagor look like the Sistine Chapel.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 16:15
NO. The Mutilators might have silly mouths but they're not on the same level as those monstrosities. Those... things made the Pumbagor look like the Sistine Chapel.

Well yes, but that doesnt mean that a lot of time and effort hadnt been put into making them, even if they did look awful (and I have to look them up now because I dont remember them at all).

Scammel
05-10-2012, 16:26
(and I have to look them up now because I dont remember them at all).

I await your screams.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 16:31
I await your screams.

Any ideas where I can find them.

Unless they are guys with weird puffy faces. I cant seem to find a picture of them anywhere.

loveless
05-10-2012, 16:35
Any ideas where I can find them.

Unless they are guys with weird puffy faces. I cant seem to find a picture of them anywhere.

Here:
154005

Hengist
05-10-2012, 16:52
I actually quite like that Terminator Lord model, even if he does look a bit like he's wearing a trenchcoat.

In any case, time will tell, but I'm still of the opinion that anybody expecting the prompt arrival of plastic Obliterators/Mutilators is being exceedingly overoptimistic. If I am proven wrong, however, you are all welcome to gloatingly tell me so.

Maidel
05-10-2012, 17:39
Here:
154005

O M D G

ok, did the guy that sculpt those get fired, because he seriously wasnt up to the task.


I actually quite like that Terminator Lord model, even if he does look a bit like he's wearing a trenchcoat.

In any case, time will tell, but I'm still of the opinion that anybody expecting the prompt arrival of plastic Obliterators/Mutilators is being exceedingly overoptimistic. If I am proven wrong, however, you are all welcome to gloatingly tell me so.

Im with you on that one. I cant see it happening, AT LEAST for 12-24 months.

Beppo1234
06-10-2012, 14:04
you know, I understood the critique of the current CSM kit, with some of it's wonky details... however, I feel like these same critics are praising the DV set Chosen. Now the DV minis are great, and have a lot of detail, but man there are a number of parts on each mini that are far more wonky than on the current csm kit. Maybe it's because of the single pose snap fit style of minis, but there are parts on every one of the minis, that are just filler plastic, with no detail on it. For example, on the twin chosen, behind both arms there are chunks of plastic that lack detail, and really shouldn't be there at all.

so, though the new chosen are pretty sexy, they have parts that have flaws, and I'd argue that those flaws are worse than on the regular csm kit. But they are well hidden and not very noticeable, much like the very minor flaws in the standard csm kit.

de Selby
06-10-2012, 17:53
Those bits are there because the models only come in a few parts and you can't sculpt undercuts in plastic, but they are well hidden. Anyway this is why we want a multipart kit, where there wouldn't be any such limitation.

Scammel
06-10-2012, 19:47
ok, did the guy that sculpt those get fired, because he seriously wasnt up to the task.

*Scottish accent* Ah warned yah.

_Chimaera
06-10-2012, 20:44
While there may be the odd flaw on the DV Chosen, not that I noticed! I really hope GW start releasing more single models in plastic and for that matter even the Fincast multi packs e.g Veterans. LOL just do away with Finecast altogether.

I picked up the plastic Aspiring Champion & the Finecast Chaos Socerer. All I can say is the plastic AC was a pleasure to snip, clean & put together. The finecast CS wasn't half as easy. They both have great detail but I have to hand it to the AC overall. The only thing I think they should have done is given the AC a choice of two heads.

As an aside. I noticed the grip on my Chaos Socerer's sword doesn't seem to be centered to the cross guard (basically the hand grip is not centered on the sword). Has anyone else noticed this? Is it normal or do I have a wonky one?

Maidel
06-10-2012, 20:49
*Scottish accent* Ah warned yah.

Every time I look at those models they just seem to get worse and worse! I'm struggling to find any redeeming features in them!

titilititi
06-10-2012, 21:07
To me, new CSM are not a priority, except if it's Cultist CSM.
Chaos Terminators are far more recent, but they're also far more ugly (they even look thin, and the details on their armours are not very impressive), which is a pity for an elite choice (I don't even speak about Possessed CSM, but DV Chosen can replace them in a way, as they got some deamons writhing their armors). Even The Terminator Lord is not that good.

Hengist
07-10-2012, 00:49
Here:
154005


O M D G

ok, did the guy that sculpt those get fired, because he seriously wasnt up to the task.

I can't say for sure, but I detect the hand of Gary Morley, the C.S. Goto of sculpting, behind those miniatures.

mrtn
07-10-2012, 09:30
I can't say for sure, but I detect the hand of Gary Morley, the C.S. Goto of sculpting, behind those miniatures.

According to Tymell's release timeline (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-%28Mk-II%29) you are right.

Importman
07-10-2012, 09:44
Those possessed were ace! Especially the metal rocker on the right with his rock on hand signs! Lol

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Hengist
07-10-2012, 11:19
According to Tymell's release timeline (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-%28Mk-II%29) you are right.

What a very useful resource! My congratulations to its creator.

Maidel
07-10-2012, 11:24
What a very useful resource! My congratulations to its creator.

My thoughts exactly! Just wish he had the time to link the pictures in too.

thrawn
09-10-2012, 15:50
i am concluding therefore, that no one has heard anything about a future CSM release? too bad, i'm not a fan of the current CSMs or terminators.

Tyrelli
09-10-2012, 16:03
154005[/

Im After the Middle one (3 Arms Bolter Chainsword)
If any one can help PM Me (Also have thread in Trade area)

Tyrelli
10-10-2012, 12:40
I was thinking about what might / may / could appear in a 2nd Wave .. and well Bikes could get redone .. they strike me as something that could get an update in a 2nd wave.

Archibald_TK
10-10-2012, 13:16
So now that we've seen the first wave, any word on what will the second wave consist of? I want to buy some more CSM and some cultists, but before i ebay some dark vengeance cultists will there be new ones? will there be new CSM? and if so, when can we expect them?

Thanks!
Thought nobody talks about them, I'd guess a second wave would include the models that, while they were present in group shots, didn't get a stand alone pic in the colour pages of the Codex. Unless I totally missed them, they are the Rhino, Predator, Vindicator and Land Raider. I saw them in the army shots but I did not see them presented separately (while the Defiler was). It may have been done on purpose by GW if new models are incoming in a short time and they didn't want to focus to much on soon to be outdated sculpts.

Another possibility is that I'm blind.

On another note, since they released a Chosen champion independently, it's a safe bet there won't be any Chosen box released during 6th Edition.

thrawn
10-10-2012, 14:28
Thought nobody talks about them, I'd guess a second wave would include the models that, while they were present in group shots, didn't get a stand alone pic in the colour pages of the Codex. Unless I totally missed them, they are the Rhino, Predator, Vindicator and Land Raider. I saw them in the army shots but I did not see them presented separately (while the Defiler was). It may have been done on purpose by GW if new models are incoming in a short time and they didn't want to focus to much on soon to be outdated sculpts.

Another possibility is that I'm blind.

On another note, since they released a Chosen champion independently, it's a safe bet there won't be any Chosen box released during 6th Edition.

I don't think those tanks will get a re-do anytime soon. that would mean new loyalist ones as well, unlikely.

AlphariusOmegon20
10-10-2012, 15:35
The old Paul Muller Cultists?! Sweet mercy that might actually encourage me to buy resin models. But they do have fully functioning moulds of the DV cultists, so it would be kinda weird to take that step backwards. Question is, do Cultists need to be available separately from DV to protect the company's interests?

Yep, that's them. I'm glad now I kept the 20 I had lying around since then, instead of selling them.

That being said though, I think they may get a new Word Bearers paint job to replace the current Alpha Legion one they wear now, though with the lack of cultist models without buying another DV set, I might just have to leave them as AL until a multipart or finecast kit comes out.

I just can't do a good AL list with this book.



I was thinking about what might / may / could appear in a 2nd Wave .. and well Bikes could get redone .. they strike me as something that could get an update in a 2nd wave.

Bikes in GENERAL need to be re-done, not just the CSM ones.

Don't get me wrong, I love Harleys, (in real life), but my god, these look nothing like one. They look more like one of those god awful Rokons from the '60's and '70's.

The Ork bikes look more like a Harley than these things do.

thrawn
10-10-2012, 19:34
yes i think the bikes need to get re-done but i'd rather see CSM redone. everybody fields CSM, but only some take bikes.

brionl
10-10-2012, 19:54
I don't think those tanks will get a re-do anytime soon. that would mean new loyalist ones as well, unlikely.

The most you are likely to get on those would be a new "chaos spikey-bits" sprue.

Rick Blaine
10-10-2012, 21:06
The obvious candidates for wave 2 are Oblits/Mutilators as a 3-man dual kit which GW loves so much, the Helbrute and maybe Chosen.

Anyone who thinks we're getting a Cultist box in the lifespan of this Codex is kidding themselves - look at the unit entry, tell me if there's anything there that isn't covered by the DV models? The rules were clearly made with the starter models and only the starter models in mind.

Max_Killfactor
10-10-2012, 21:18
The obvious candidates for wave 2 are Oblits/Mutilators as a 3-man dual kit which GW loves so much, the Helbrute and maybe Chosen.

Anyone who thinks we're getting a Cultist box in the lifespan of this Codex is kidding themselves - look at the unit entry, tell me if there's anything there that isn't covered by the DV models? The rules were clearly made with the starter models and only the starter models in mind.

Solid logic, I agree.

I think bikers have a chance though also. I think enough people are suddenly interested in taking them.

Maidel
10-10-2012, 22:29
Solid logic, I agree.

I think bikers have a chance though also. I think enough people are suddenly interested in taking them.

When I worked for GW (many many years ago) I got told an interresting story by a visiting area manager. The suits that sign the papers that let new models be made dont sign checks for things that sell well. When the current rhino model was in design the studio visited the suits and asked if they could release a new rhino model (im showing my age now..) The studio were told 'theres no way you can release a new rhino, it sells far too well.' So, the studio came back a few weeks later and asked 'Can we release a new predator, that doesnt sell well at all.' (this is back when the predator was a part metal kit that was about twice the price of a rhino). And we ended up with a new rhino via the back door.

Therefore, if bikes are now popular and selling well, they wont be re-sculpted.

Charistoph
11-10-2012, 04:35
They might now with their army price so drastically dropped and that nasty little issue they had before now fixed with 6th.

MajorWesJanson
11-10-2012, 07:50
Bikes were included in the battleforce, I don't expect to see new ones for a while.

Beppo1234
11-10-2012, 09:30
Bikes are problematic. I could see a distinction between Chaos and loyalist bikes for release. But I think if bikes are going to be redone, they'll be doing all SM, chaos or otherwise, at the same time... and given the RW bikes in the starter, as well as the RW sprues for riders, which are relatively new in the grand scheme of things, I think it'll be a while for bikes to take on a new style. But I could go for changes to the current kit... I hate the center line assembly of the model and wish that they cut the mold in different spots, so that the joins wouldn't be in the middle of a flat panel surface.


I pray for the mutilator/obli 2 part box, but I hope they change up their approach the organic parts of the unit, as they've always been sculpted rather poorly... needs more Akira, and less weird stretchy flesh.

I'm not counting on any tank changes... as there weren't any new options granted to tanks. Again though, I would love for an additional chaos upgrade sprue. I wish that the forward landraider doors were more beast like. Like an evil maw that could bite anyone unwise enough to stand in front of the massive tank.

I might suspect a fortification of some sort, but that's total speculation