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View Full Version : Brand new WFB player. Some questions for you vets out there about dwarfs



Cobra.Commander
02-10-2012, 16:24
Hi all, I've been a veteran of 40k for over 14 years now, and I thought it might be a good time to try something different. When I say brand new I mean it. I haven't read the main rulebook or any of the armybooks, but I told myself, if I ever went over to fantasy I would play dwarfs. So basically, I'm just wondering what its like to play these short fellas? I understand they have one of the older codices (excuse me, bad habit) armybooks. Does that matter? Do they provide a lot of strategy, or is there kind of a cut and dry (read: boring) method to playing them (like grey knights for those that play 40k)? What are some of the advantages and disadvantages? I want to stress that I'm going to play them regardless of how good/bad they are, as this is more of a side project than anything. Anyway I look forward to fighting a few battles with bows and blades instead of boltguns and powerswords.

Malorian
02-10-2012, 17:39
There are different ways of playing them and they can be as boring as you want to make them.

They may have an old army book but with so many good warmachine and tons of different units with access to great weapons they do very well. They can also shut down magic phases.

If you want something more interesting look into using the anvil for movement tricks and using miners and scouts. There are also some cool tricks you can play with the master run of challenge and you can basically make a lord for any situation.

I suggest you check these out:

Dwarfs in 8th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnurT9KZ5ZQ

Battle reports:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEujSZDf31Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHYJi_KVev8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vsloIAWL80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzePDR_AO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5CmX9L6dB4

Cobra.Commander
02-10-2012, 17:50
Thank you for the quick reply. You've been very helpful! :)

Minty
02-10-2012, 18:15
Movement and Magic are the most complex, tactical and variable phases in Fantasy. Dwarves act in neither and prevent the enemy from acting in one.

Because of this, Dorfs have an unfortunately well deserved rep as boring to play and to play against.

Thing is that it's a shooting army with minimal movement speed, no magic and invincible magic defence.

When Dwarves are on the field the first three turns go like this:

Turn 1: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic I might shoot, no combat.

Turn 2: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic I might shoot, no combat.

Turn 3: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic I might shoot, no combat.

Turn 4: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic, I might shoot, I charge and the combat result is decided by how hot your shooting dice are that day and how many of my mans you killed while I marched across the table.


It gets old pretty damned fast. There are other ways to play Dwarves, but the army book is not designed to support them and you have to be willing to play against the grain.

Oogie boogie boss
03-10-2012, 08:15
I disagree with the above. Dwarves are by no means a one dimensional army. I've been playing against them for years, and in that time I've seen all sorts of army types and themes. I've played very aggressive, combat focused dwarf armies without a single missile weapon, dedicated gun line armies, 'wacky' forces with miners, rangers and slayers galore. All sorts.

Dwarves have reputation for being boring because a lot of the way they play best is about inhibiting the opponent doing what he wants to do, particularly with magic. But just because a lot of Dwarf players play this way, doesn't mean you have to.

All in all, Dwarves are a very established, thematic force with a lot to offer a new player.

Daniel36
03-10-2012, 09:10
I'd say wait it out for a little while longer. If the rumours are true, they are going to be getting a massive miniature overhaul...
However, if the miniatures don't bother you, just go for it. I really like them, and think it's a shame I hardly ever get to do battle against them.

Cobra.Commander
03-10-2012, 18:43
I'm not that worried about the miniatures. Thats what mantic is for. I get the same units, in a much more pleasing model, for half the price. I will grant that GW's new stuff is absolutely amazing, and usually ALMOST worth the price. So if they do get a massive overhaul, I'm sure I'll pick up a few things. But a "little while longer" in GW terms can be 2 years.

Luigi
04-10-2012, 03:48
Anyway I look forward to fighting a few battles with bows and blades instead of boltguns and powerswords.

Actually you could still play with boltguns and poweraxes :D using dwarfs

Kayosiv
04-10-2012, 07:23
When Dwarves are on the field the first three turns go like this:

Turn 1-3: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic I might shoot, no combat.

Turn 4: You don't move, you do no magic, you shoot, no combat. I move, I fail to cast any magic, I might shoot, I charge and the combat result is decided by how hot your shooting dice are that day and how many of my mans you killed while I marched across the table.


This statement sadly, can be quite true.



It gets old pretty damned fast. There are other ways to play Dwarves, but the army book is not designed to support them and you have to be willing to play against the grain.


This statement however, is totally false. The book is FILLED with ways that you can have eventful movement phases, participate in meaning close combat, and create a plethora of lists that do different things and have different strengths and weaknesses.
The Strollaz Rune, Rune of Slowness, Master Rune of Challenge, Master Rune of Dismay, Rune of Brotherhood, Rangers and also Bugman, Miners, The Anvil of Doom, and Gyrocopters all are designed to give advantageous and meaningful movement phases for you and difficulties for your opponent.


So basically, I'm just wondering what its like to play these short fellas? I understand they have one of the older codices (excuse me, bad habit) armybooks. Does that matter? Do they provide a lot of strategy, or is there kind of a cut and dry (read: boring)? What are some of the advantages and disadvantages? Anyway I look forward to fighting a few battles with bows and blades instead of boltguns and powerswords.

Old armybook, no it does not matter. They've got a few items that no longer do anything but you aren't forced to take those. That's really it. Just have a copy of the Erreta from Games Workshop's website and an old book isn't an issue. The only real flaw in the old armybooks is that the battle standard bearer, which is something you always want to take, is restricted in equipment option. That's not exactly a deal breaker.

They provide as much strategy as you want them to. You can take the boring shooty list above or a combat army. What many people fail to realize is that almost every army can take a boring shooty army. There's nothing stopping wood elves from taking 200 longbowmen or ogres from taking 21 leadbelchers 2 scrap launchers and 2 sky titan cannons and sitting back for 3 turns and shooting you. Dwarves are agruably the best at taking a pure shooty army, but that doesn't mean it is the best way to play them or that they have to. No, it would not be fun to face a vampire counts army with 6 banshees, 3 terrorgheists and a vampire with aura of dark Majesty. So what? Nobody forces people to take pure shooty armies.

Advantages for Dwarfs:
High Leadership; Leaderhsip 9 = VERY YES: Most armies struggle to get leadership 9 while Dwarves have it at a minimum. This is huge.

Best magic defense in the game: If you want to, you can completely shut down your opponent's magic phase. This isn't always recommended, because it costs about as many points to shut down a magic phase as it takes to generate one so you're "really" only breaking even. If your opponent brought less magic phase than the magic defense you spent points on to stop it you ended up wasting a lot of points. A happy medium is always best.

Great weapons for everybody: Almost every dwarf unit can take great weapons. This gives the army a large amount of strength 5 and 6 attacks that can threaten anything in the game, even characters. Even the core can become strength 6, which is very rare indeed. Most armies have difficulty getting their core above strength 4.

Armywide Toughness 4: Most armies are either completely toughness 3 or have mostly toughness 3 with some tough characters or maybe 1-2 units of monsters or elites that are toughness 4. The entire dwarf army is very tough.

High Weaponskill: Dwarf weaponskill, even on units that aren't meant to fight like rangers or cannon crew, is an impressive 4. Their elites are even better with an awesome 5. Dwarf elites have a equal weaponskill to the heroes of most armies. Their heroes are even better.

Runes are awesome: Far more magic item customization than any army in the game. Runes allow you to make exactly what you want for characters. This also allows dwarfs to make the best artillery in the game.

Heavily armored: Dwarfs get heavy armor included in the cost of most of their units and even units not meant for combat come with light armor at least. Very few armies get access to units with heavy armor and shields and dwarfs can get this as core. Ironbreakers are one of the hardiest infantry units in the game with a 3+ armor save.

Excellent shooting: Dwarfs have the best artillery in the game and some of the most impressive shooting. From Crossbows to organ guns, pistols to cannons, dwarfs pump out an impressive amount of strength 4 shots and accurate war machine fire.

Immune to march blocking: While it is unlikely that high leadership armies like dwarfs would be marchblocked due to enemy troops, dwarfs are straight up immune to it and never have to test. While this is no longer the advantage it was in 6th edition when the book was released, it is still a nice bonus that keeps dwarfs moving at their steady movement 6 while other armies might get stuck at movement 4-5 after a bad dice roll or two.

Disadvantages for Dwarfs:

Slow: Dwarfs as an army have both low movement (3) and low initiative (mostly 2). They are further slowed by their -1 movement to pursue and flee.

Elite and expensive: Because dwarfs are so tough and such good fighters, their troops don't come cheap. Even their core warriors come in at 8+ points a model and you'd be foolish to not buy them upgrades that make them even more expensive. This means you will often be outnumbered extensively by horde armies.

Lack of Magic: Dwarfs have no wizards and no spell lores. With the increase in power of the 8th edition magical spells, dwarfs are left without many of the buffs, debuffs, and super death spells that other armies have access to that make them so potent.