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View Full Version : Armor Values between Flyers Skimmers, and Tracked APC's



EpicWarGamer
02-10-2012, 17:31
Greetings friends...

I want to know if anyone else is irritated at the fact that the new flyers have heavier armor than an APC? I mean, its bad enough the Chimera is 12/10/10, leaving the struggling Rhino a 11/11/10 is really harsh considering that a FLYER is 12/12/10. I've been playing 40k for 17 years now, and the Vendetta/Valkrie and Stormraven all have better weapons and equipment, and better armor, and you can only hit them on a 6. Again, the only other high armor APCs are SKIMMERS (Tau Devilfish, Eldar Wave Serpent, and Necron Ghost Ark (AV 13? Really?) while a treaded slow vehicle is ... ONLY... AV 11. All LR foolishness aside, the Rhino, due to its Harshell Front, should be 12/11/11. The Chimera should be 12/12/11.

Your thoughts, WS?

EWG

Lord Damocles
02-10-2012, 17:46
Ground vehicles/skimmers are fine.

AV >11 for anything in the air should be rare to non-existant.
It was justifiable for the the Valkyrie/Vendetta (just) when they were skimmers, but as fliers it's crazy-good (and then the FAQ buffed them just a little bit more :rolleyes:)
The Stormraven is even crazier with rear armour 12 (because people can't be a' flankin' me flying brick. That would be unfair).

Lezta
02-10-2012, 21:34
It's bugged me for ages that a rhino has such low armour. Should be 12 all round, IMHO (obviously be more points too)

I think, given the gradual increase in the amount of higher strength weapons over the years that some av values could do with going up.

Venkh
02-10-2012, 21:42
No flyer should have armour of more than 11.

Ground vehicles are ok as they are. GW are baffling at times, they either dont care or dond understand the impact of the rules changes on the game.

Eldar vehicles are made from wraithbone which is super tough, justifying AV12 and besides, look at the points you have to pay for them!

A.T.
02-10-2012, 22:04
No flyer should have armour of more than 11(peers in IA1) The original valkyrie was 11/11/10, a bit more sensible.
Just about everything else was 10/10/10, including superheavies. The thunderhawk managed a 12, and the manta 13 - though the latter was rather large...

OgreBattle
02-10-2012, 22:09
The Valkyrie/Vendetta have stupid rules

It should be 11/10/10 and not come with Extra Armor.
It should not carry more twin linked lascannons than a landraider.

The End.

Threeshades
02-10-2012, 22:26
Yup. And the entry in IG actually states that the IG valkyries have been fitted with heavier armour, which makes them more resilient, but also slower than Navy valks, which actually went to explain why the Valkyrie in codex IG is only a skimmer but has AV 12/12/10, while the IA valk is an AV 11/11/10 flyer. now that they made them flyers, that part of the fluff makes no sense anymore. (although FW messed it up first by updating their Valks and Vultures to be AV 12 and only count as skimmers in regular games in 5th)

EpicWarGamer
03-10-2012, 01:49
Yup. And the entry in IG actually states that the IG valkyries have been fitted with heavier armour, which makes them more resilient, but also slower than Navy valks, which actually went to explain why the Valkyrie in codex IG is only a skimmer but has AV 12/12/10, while the IA valk is an AV 11/11/10 flyer. now that they made them flyers, that part of the fluff makes no sense anymore. (although FW messed it up first by updating their Valks and Vultures to be AV 12 and only count as skimmers in regular games in 5th)

I didn't even know this. This makes me madder about it. I say that in about 10 battles, the Valkrie in my group lives more than 75% of the time.

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2012, 06:51
It's bugged me for ages that a rhino has such low armour. Should be 12 all round, IMHO (obviously be more points too)

I think, given the gradual increase in the amount of higher strength weapons over the years that some av values could do with going up.

The rhino is based off of the M113 APC and other similar vehicles. It is a battle taxi with weak armor, not a combat unit.

Voss
03-10-2012, 07:00
By design and influence it should be a pre-battle taxi only. No one sane would stay in one when shots are raining down. Which is why it is ok in the 40k universe I suppose

ehlijen
03-10-2012, 07:44
The rhino is meant to be an all terrain truck capable of withstanding small arms fire (S3 to 4) in case of light ambushes. It does that wonderfully. It's ideal for strategic logistics and patrols.

Flyers started becoming AV12 when GW included them without FWs flyer rules and had to make up for the loss in resilience somehow. They modelled the rules after the falcon, I guess?

They should reset the values to 11 now that flyer rules are back, but the chaos codex seems to indicate that won't happen.

As for Extra Armour, that was given to valks to prevent the silly ness that would have been stopping a plane dead in its tracks by hitting it fairly hard. Now that flyers have their own damage rules again, that can go as well (but probably won't; more likely than going back to AV11 though).

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2012, 08:21
Well, now Extra armor is far less useful than it used to be. With hull points replacing the glancing hits table, stunned results are far less common than they used to be.

Poseidal
03-10-2012, 09:00
It is Valkyries and Vendettas that take the biscuit, they are silly for what they are meant to be.

Tau and Eldar skimmers are tanks, so have tank armour. They can't toe-to-toe with Attack Helicopters, but are more like a faster Leman Russ or Predator in battlefield role. The transport philosophy is more of a front-line delivery vehicle than the Rhino, which is an inexpensive reliable vehicle, same for the Chimera.

If you want a heavy land transport, that's exactly what the Land Raider is for. Tough armour, reasonably well armed (but not so much as a dedicated battle tank). If the Space Marines need a heavy-armour transport, they take the Land Raider so have no need for an in-between tank (Predator Armoured Rhino is not needed). Imperial Guard do not have use of a highly armoured transport due to their army philosophy, but the Chimera is a decent vehicle anyway.

Flyers should be AV11 all round, I would change the Stormraven to 4HP AV11 all round.