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ArtificerArmour
03-10-2012, 13:41
So, we've all played a bit of 6th edition. How are you finding the new rules for psykers?

Firstly, do you approve or dissaprove of the changes?

Have they changed the metagame on your area? do you take them just because your opponant might?

Have you changed how you use your psykers? Does their equipment no longer work as well?

Does "deny the witch" cut it?

And finally, which psychic disciplines do you see most regularly (if at all)

A.T.
03-10-2012, 14:15
So, we've all played a bit of 6th edition. How are you finding the new rules for psykers?
A little random and unevenly distributed for my personal tastes

Firstly, do you approve or dissaprove of the changes?
Fairly neutral at this point, there are no jaws or lash powers in there.

Have they changed the metagame on your area? do you take them just because your opponant might?
If I play krieg or sisters I have no psykers, if I play henchmen I have a compulsory psyker - so no option really.
Only the marine players have really done anything in terms of taking more psykers. Aircraft are the pressing issue ATM.

Have you changed how you use your psykers? Does their equipment no longer work as well?
If I take corteaz he picks up reroll to hit powers, makes him a little better as a fire support unit.

My main army is Sisters however, and i'm mightily miffed at Cruddace for removing the entirety of their psychic defence options just prior to 6th, along with access to the psychic inquisitors which used to be available to them. Cruddace - what a git.

Does "deny the witch" cut it?
Better than nothing, arguably a side effect of GW codex-creeping all of their psykers from Ld9 to Ld10 over the last edition and making powers hugely reliable as a result.
I also miss having a 5+ deny save on all my units. Cruddace - still a git.

And finally, which psychic disciplines do you see most regularly (if at all)
The local wolves, eldar, CSM, and nid players all stick with codex powers. I take divination (with inquisitors) and the BA player leans toward biomancy and divination.
Cruddace - git (minimum 10 character post)

ArtificerArmour
03-10-2012, 14:24
As a daemon player, I didnt get much chance to cast spells. I did do a tiny bit of dabbling with chaos and found pyromancy very...lacklustre. divination and biomancy seem the stand out choices.

A.T.
03-10-2012, 14:40
As a daemon player, I didnt get much chance to cast spells. I did do a tiny bit of dabbling with chaos and found pyromancy very...lacklustre. divination and biomancy seem the stand out choices.Biomancy is a bit of a gamble as smite is nothing special and the rest are a mix - if you want Iron Arm but get Life Leech you are at a bit of an impasse.

Divination has a bunch of handy stuff and - importantly - if you get something you don't want you just swap it out for prescience, though it's something of a team-players deck and less use to individuals and MCs.

Pyromancy would have been handy for nids ... who of course don't get it.

Telekinesis feels like an old marine offensive set. Such a mixed bag that I might take them if I could pick them, but randomly picking them out doesn't really work.

And telepathy ... tempting set of powers, unfortunately not available to inquisitors as it's not "grey knight" enough... Need at least a lvl2 psyker to get the most from it but still would have been great in combination with the old 20pt WH elite inquisitors (cruddace-git).

Denny
03-10-2012, 15:08
It hasn't had much impact; I'm currently playing as Dark Eldar so I don't get to cast any powers.
Mostly I'm up against the same stuff as in 5th; Space Wolf and Blood Angel powers.

I've yet to deny the witch successfully. On the other hand the Psykers have yet to live longer than turn 3 . . . :)

Captain Idaho
03-10-2012, 15:30
I approve of the Psychic rules, but until we get more 6th edition Codex books we will find it a little lacklustre. So far there are only two Codex books with Psykers who can make good use out of the tables for reasonable points. Chaos Sorcerors cost a mere 110pts for a Level 3 Psyker!

Corvus Corone
03-10-2012, 15:45
As a Tyranid player (working on other things but that's my army until they're done) I've found biomancy good, on MCs (Tyrant and Tervigons). Biomancy gives Flyrants a good dose of survivability, which they need.

I've run zoanthropes in so, so many games now, each time wanting them to finally prove me wrong, but each time they just suck. Even with the new psychic powers, I've yet to have had much utility out of them. I can't speak for broodlords since I don't use genestealers.

Deny the witch has been great for me. I've gotten some lucky 6s with gaunts against powers that could have been pretty ugly if they'd gone off (never underestimate the psychic might of a gaunt!).

Most enemies I play against still use their codex powers, even when (imo) they aren't so great. I think people really don't like rolling for powers, and I understand; I don't either.

Scammel
03-10-2012, 15:50
For me it's a crying shame that Divination pulls out so far ahead of the others, there's a sense of disappointment whenever I play an army that doesn't get it. It really is posterior gravy that Ahriman doesn't have access to the school he was the paragon of.

Nurgling Chieftain
03-10-2012, 16:24
The balancing seems very off in most cases, so there's a lot of gambling involved. The right powers are totally worth it, the wrong powers, you'd've been much better off spending the points elsewhere. Another annoying 6th edition randomization, IMO.

Jericho
03-10-2012, 16:31
I too think it's a bit too random at times. At least in Fantasy, you get to choose your second power when you roll a double on the spell selection chart. In 40k you just re-roll duplicates. Makes it a bit more of a gamble to try and get the one power you really want.

On the other hand, the powers themselves are really diverse and the different Lores really help differentiate between armies. Whether it's the little things like the Landspeeder Storm, or bigger things like Flyers and psyker lores, there are even more critical differences between the various Marine armies now. I don't see that being bad.

Radium
03-10-2012, 18:03
I really dislike the random powers. But nothing's really changed around here. I still play my Eldar with codex powers, and most of my opponents tended to ignore psykers to begin with. The only one who really benefited from the new powers is our local GK player, who finally has a use for Coteaz being a psyker.

MagicHat
03-10-2012, 21:47
I think my BA librarian rolling on Divination is great and worth the points.

If the DA librarian becomes as stupidly good as the Chaos sorcerer, then I know I will be bringing along an ally.

ColShaw
03-10-2012, 22:18
I have my trusty Primaris Psyker Palpatine, and honestly, his built-in Lightning Arc is more useful than most of what he can roll up. So, *shrug*.

Firstly, do you approve or dissaprove of the changes?
-I think they're an unnecessary attempt to re-homogenize WFB and 40K back closer together (much like the Challenge rules, which are the single dumbest thing in 6th Ed).

Have they changed the metagame on your area? do you take them just because your opponant might?
-Nope. There's worse things out there to worry about.

Have you changed how you use your psykers? Does their equipment no longer work as well?
-With just a Primaris (and sometimes not even him), this isn't really an issue. His job is midrange fire-support, and he still does that.

Does "deny the witch" cut it?
-No. 1 in 6 is not useful defense (how many Ork players count on their Boyz surviving close combat hits?)

And finally, which psychic disciplines do you see most regularly (if at all)
-Divination seems to be the big winner, which Primaris Psykers can't take :cries:.

Aluinn
03-10-2012, 22:33
Like most 6th Ed. changes, I like the mechanics and ideas in and of themselves, and have no huge problems with the disciplines (I wouldn't say Divination is flat out better than others, though Pyromancy and Telekinesis seem a little behind the curve), but think it suffers somewhat from most codexes now being, in some sense or other, outdated. For example, you really need at least Mastery Level 2 to make it interesting at all, otherwise you're just choosing based on the Primaris Power, and even then you'd ideally want at least Mastery Level 3, which is vanishingly rare. Besides that, 40K has quite a lot of armies that either completely lack psykers or don't have any that are especially worth having around (Ork Weirdboys, mostly), though at least Deny the Witch addresses the issue to some extent by giving everyone some psychic defense, albeit weak.

I also think they really should have just gone ahead and appropriated the WHFB system whole hog, and given the armies without psykers +2 to dispel or +2 dispel dice or something. It works really well, is interesting if a bit of a "side game" at times, and is balanced well beyond a few imbalances in Lores/powers. I guess they shrunk away from it due to the large number of armies that couldn't take psykers, but again just giving them a blanket Dwarf treatment (okay, that sounds weird, but I mean a static dispelling bonus :)) would work fine, and even without that the system itself provides for everyone to always have some capability to dispel.

(I don't think the powers should have been as powerful as Fantasy's spells, though; they're about right for 40K where they are now, barring a few cases of exceptional weakness or goodness.)

Firaxin
04-10-2012, 06:51
I'm neutral, trending towards positive, but I have to admit there aren't a lot of psykers in my local meta (we have a lot of Guard and Tau players).

I don't mind the randomness of the Core disciplines, I think it balances the fact that every psyker out there essentially gets free access to (potentially) 35 new 'generic' powers. You can make the argument that the Codex powers shouldn't be random--that those are specialized, trained powers they should be able to pick from--but then I suppose the guarantee of picking what you want would mean the core powers were almost never taken.

As for the powers themselves, some are certainly better than others. This is notable in the Primaris- (I call them "safety-") powers and the Warp Charge 2 powers in particular.
Compare "Assail" (Telekinesis) with Telepathy's "Psychic Shriek" or Biomancy's "Smite," for instance.
Or Pyromancy's "Molten Beam" with the better all around "Vortex of Doom" or the immensely useful "Invisibility."

One particular positive of the new system applies to tournaments--before 6th, you bought a power out of your codex and were stuck with it through the whole tourney, even though not all powers are suited to all opponents. Now if you bring a psyker to a tourney you have some flexibility, as you just buy a mastery level and can change what discipline you want to roll on depending on your opponent right before the battle begins (or at least that's how we're doing it where I am).

In my opinion, the BIGGEST flaw with the Fantasy system is spellcasters are pretty much an auto-take there. I don't want that to happen to 40k, so that's my biggest fear going forwards.

Spiney Norman
04-10-2012, 07:05
I don't really have much of an opinion, except to say that deny the witch is a waste of the paper it is printed on.
I play dark Eldar, battle sisters, Necrons and Dark Angels and I'm damned if I'm paying 120 pts for a L1 librarian. Hopefully the DA book will get fixed soon and I'll be able to give the new psyker rules a whirl.

Hashulaman
04-10-2012, 13:39
I approve of the new rules

No the meta has not changed

I make use of the power as much as I can to try out different combinations. I'm getting a new Codex Saturday, so my play style will change again :P

Deny the witch is an improvement since not every army has proper psykik defense. It's better than nothing in their case.


I love the new disciplines, and use them every game. The meta does here as well, Every Eldar and GK player takes Divination and uses it to it's full potential. A good deal of Codex powers are garbage anyways and it it a nice change to have other stuff to use.

TheDungen
04-10-2012, 16:28
I still resent that chaos undivided only get pyromancy telekenesis and telepathy. the only fitting one of those is telepathy, the other two should be biomancy (instant mutations) and divination (searching in the warp for answers is a much more chaos than imperial thing).

that said i like that they've basically added another phase. adds tactical depths.

Chem-Dog
04-10-2012, 18:20
Do you approve or dissaprove of the changes?

In general, I approve. The powers I have access to now are much more useful than the ones my Primaris Psykers had access to beforehand.
It's a little more difficult to build a "perfect" Psyker now because their abilities are a mix of different regimes, a combat Psyker will be short-changed by rolling a Witchfire power for example, and a weedy support Psyker will get little use out of the personal buff powers. Perhaps I would have liked to have seen it more of a swing between the diciplines, at the moment they each seem to have the same seven abilities "flavoured" to their particular area of interest.

Have they changed the metagame on your area? do you take them just because your opponant might?

Weirdly, So far I've only played against Necrons and Dark Eldar (and after tonight, Blood Angels), but inclusion of a Psyker is pretty essential for my army background and as I said, the new powers are of greater utility.

Have you changed how you use your psykers? Does their equipment no longer work as well?

Primaris Psyker has no options. He's a handy support character who can give a enemy character a nasty surprise every once in a while.

Does "deny the witch" cut it?
Never had reason to use it yet but It's infuriating when your opponent deflects your powers. But I am more interested in abilities that benefit my troops rather than outright attack powers, so that should cut down the instances of that to some degree.

And finally, which psychic disciplines do you see most regularly (if at all).

After careful analysis the only Discipline I use is Pyromancy.
Fire Shield is essential, that's the main reason I take Pyro Psykers. 4++ Vs shooting AND 2D6 S4 Wall of Death hits in overwatch? I think so. Especially in a Blobbed squad armed with flamers Or a squad of Ogryn. And especially when being charged by Dark Eldar.
The fairly good chance my Psykers will increase the survivability of the units they babysit is sufficient for me. The stack of chances to kill or hurt enemy units the Discipline supplies are no hardship.

Bonus awesome goes to the combo of Fiery Form and a Force Staff. :eviilgrin:

Jericho
04-10-2012, 18:33
I still resent that chaos undivided only get pyromancy telekenesis and telepathy. the only fitting one of those is telepathy, the other two should be biomancy (instant mutations) and divination (searching in the warp for answers is a much more chaos than imperial thing).

that said i like that they've basically added another phase. adds tactical depths.

Someone else was posting that in the new Dex, Chaos loses Telekinesis and gains Biomancy. I agree this is much more fitting, especially since Telekinesis is basically the Vanilla Space Marine lore... :)

@Chem-Dog: I may need to look into Pyromancy, as it seems to fit well for my Salamanders. Just haven't gotten around to using them in 6th yet :)