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rocdocta
05-10-2012, 03:27
I am a fan of under dogs. Thinking about using Bretts as my Ogres are now damn unstoppable (Gfist Death magic). Are they playable in tournaments with any success or is it a stretch to expect to do well with them? Would be going for a balanced list with a horde of 40 men @ arms.

King Arthur
06-10-2012, 10:18
I have alot of knights with heroes as peasant bowman and I am a fan of the deathstar tactic(I know boo etc.) so I put my bsb with a lord and prophetess and savage beast higher value does quite well 75% sucesss rate

kingjshrulz
06-10-2012, 10:58
there pretty good. cheap peasant hordes and good knights that come with a free ward save. Not to overpowered and your greedy mage cant drain our mages of levels.

ladykatz_02
06-10-2012, 15:52
How they do depends on how you use them. I have been using Brets for a long time, been told my lists are solid the only reason I don't win more with them is that I don't think tactically enough and have all the other army's abilities and army books memorized so tend to walk myself into some dumb mistakes.

Understanding things like the Blessing is important and how to use the units together is more important with Brets, in my opinion, than with other armies because it is so crucial to get that charge off and get through the unit you're hitting. You tend to wind up with several long bus of knights so you have to really watch flanks, but the war machines are incredible and can be quite devestating to your opponents. Read the army book and FAQs well so you understand which rules from the army book have been superceded and which have not and you should do just fine.

Brets are not really the underdog as far as game play, just as far as getting updated army books and models, but most of the models are gorgeous already so hard to improve there.

Lordcypress
06-10-2012, 17:09
The Brettonians book needs an immediate update as far as I'm concerned. It has too many underpriced items and vows. Also the Field Trebuchet is grossly underpriced. 90pts for a Stone Thrower that uses the large round template and does strength five hits. I pay 85pts for my Rock Lobba. Each of those Field Trebuchets should be 180pts. Just based on the their damage output alone. What happened was when the 8th edition book modified regular Stone Throwers from strength 4 no armour saves all the way down to strength 3 with armour saves they didn't adjust the Field Trebuchet. Thus you now have the best Warmachine points wise in all of Warhammer.

ladykatz_02
06-10-2012, 18:24
The Brettonians book needs an immediate update as far as I'm concerned. It has too many underpriced items and vows. Also the Field Trebuchet is grossly underpriced. 90pts for a Stone Thrower that uses the large round template and does strength five hits. I pay 85pts for my Rock Lobba. Each of those Field Trebuchets should be 180pts. Just based on the their damage output alone. What happened was when the 8th edition book modified regular Stone Throwers from strength 4 no armour saves all the way down to strength 3 with armour saves they didn't adjust the Field Trebuchet. Thus you now have the best Warmachine points wise in all of Warhammer.


Whomever told you that the Stone Thrower used a large template told you a lie. Its the small template. Do you play Brets Lordcypress? As a bret player I can tell you that our Trebs are not underpriced. 90 points for something that scatters when it is being fired unless by some miracle you do not have anything between you and your target (its not a large model so infantry blocks its line of sight) and that being the only real shooting that a bret player has (the bowmen are rediculusly unable to hit anything despite their 30" range). Our warmachine is actually on par with the Chaos hellcannon for shooting but oh wait, the hellcannon can move and fight too. The treb has no save, no defence and is most often taken out on the second or third turn of a given game and often without doing any damage or very little damage if it hasn't blown itself up.

I would also argue the "too many underpriced items and vows" comment. No other army is forced to take a hero level BSB and vows can only be taken on Lord/Paladin characters. The BSB takes up about 200 points on his own which reduces our ability to take some more useful character builds--and yes I have tried lots of different BSB builds and cannot make them both defendable and able to fight, most other armies can make their BSBs useful and defensable. There are not all that many cheap, useful items most of them are rather useless. I'd love to see a useful Bret list with these "cheap" items/vows that actually is successful.

The Low King
06-10-2012, 19:00
. 90 points for something that scatters when it is being fired unless by some miracle you do not have anything between you and your target (its not a large model so infantry blocks its line of sight) and that being the only real shooting that a bret player has (the bowmen are rediculusly unable to hit anything despite their 30" range). .

I think you are still playing 7th edition LOS rules there

Xerkics
06-10-2012, 19:55
I am a fan of under dogs. Thinking about using Bretts as my Ogres are now damn unstoppable (Gfist Death magic). Are they playable in tournaments with any success or is it a stretch to expect to do well with them? Would be going for a balanced list with a horde of 40 men @ arms.
Just a few things : Bretts are not underdogs. Wood elves are underdogs . A horde of 40 men at arms isnt balanced. Its not a deathstar but it can be near unkillable. Brettonians are a strong army with good shooting options cheap line infantry, ok magic, and elite cavalry that can be taken as core. They have limited options but have excellent plastic range. If you are looking for an underdog army Bretts arent it. Play wood elves. Even tomb kings probably do less well than bretts. Sure brets arent as filthy as Ogres but they are nowhere near underdog level.

Wesser
06-10-2012, 21:32
Brets are problematic because they are very easy to counter

Horrificly weak against armies that are as fast as them due their exposed flanks. Brets also have no answer to long trains of disposable troops.

Enemies will tend to absorb the charge that wreck their flanks. Therefor you rly have to break stuff on the charge, which means hitting the same units with everything you got. One of the few benefits the lance has left is the ability to push many attacks on a small frontage. Against any strong enemy unit you need to put in at least 3 lances with characters and all

Against huge units... try and hold em up with chaff or peg. knights... you dont have any better options.

ladykatz_02
07-10-2012, 01:08
I think you are still playing 7th edition LOS rules there


8th ed line of sight is true line of sight if you get a direct hit that you keep your direct hit, but you can also fire indirectly but even if you roll a direct hit it scatters.

Minty
07-10-2012, 12:11
The Brettonians book needs an immediate update as far as I'm concerned. It has too many underpriced items and vows. Also the Field Trebuchet is grossly underpriced. 90pts for a Stone Thrower that uses the large round template and does strength five hits. I pay 85pts for my Rock Lobba. Each of those Field Trebuchets should be 180pts. Just based on the their damage output alone. What happened was when the 8th edition book modified regular Stone Throwers from strength 4 no armour saves all the way down to strength 3 with armour saves they didn't adjust the Field Trebuchet. Thus you now have the best Warmachine points wise in all of Warhammer.



Whomever told you that the Stone Thrower used a large template told you a lie. Its the small template. Do you play Brets Lordcypress? As a bret player I can tell you that our Trebs are not underpriced. 90 points for something that scatters when it is being fired unless by some miracle you do not have anything between you and your target (its not a large model so infantry blocks its line of sight) and that being the only real shooting that a bret player has (the bowmen are rediculusly unable to hit anything despite their 30" range). Our warmachine is actually on par with the Chaos hellcannon for shooting but oh wait, the hellcannon can move and fight too. The treb has no save, no defence and is most often taken out on the second or third turn of a given game and often without doing any damage or very little damage if it hasn't blown itself up.

I would also argue the "too many underpriced items and vows" comment. No other army is forced to take a hero level BSB and vows can only be taken on Lord/Paladin characters. The BSB takes up about 200 points on his own which reduces our ability to take some more useful character builds--and yes I have tried lots of different BSB builds and cannot make them both defendable and able to fight, most other armies can make their BSBs useful and defensable. There are not all that many cheap, useful items most of them are rather useless. I'd love to see a useful Bret list with these "cheap" items/vows that actually is successful.


The truth lies somewhere in between these two extremes.

The Treb really is too cheap. It was priced for a game with partials on a 4+. That' just how it is. 100-125 points would be just dandy.

Above 500 points the mandatory BSB is no handicap - everyone would take one anyway, and how in god's name do you manage to blow 200 points on a hero-level character that costs sixty? In fact, off the top of my head even if you buy every upgrade possible you cap out at 181 points. Most of us will rarely go over 120 or so (Virtue of Duty, Enchanted Shield,
Barded Warhorse, maybe a cheapy magic sword).

Our core infantry is a touch too cheap for a game with step-up and steadfast, all of our cavalry a touch to expensive for a game with step-up, steadfast and chargers-strike-at-initiative. However, we have perhaps the best archers in the whole game, point-for-point! The Peasant Bowman may not be much, but he comes with stakes (that count as fences) and gets flaming attacks for 5 points/unit. Who could resist?

ladykatz_02
07-10-2012, 15:58
Minty: I would love to see some builds, I have been the only Bret player in my area and figuring our best uses for that bsb have been my biggest challenges. is there somewhere on this forum that's best for that kind of thing?

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

Kalandros
07-10-2012, 18:23
Trebuchets are strong but they are priced accordingly for whats available to the rest of the army.
Rock lobbers (I play OnG as well) are 85 pts - yep. Then look at the Mangler Squigs, 65pts - underpriced for its potential, but can also be gotten rid of easily with a chaff unit worth 30 to 60 pts - So its not that underpriced but it can cause mayhem. Same with the Trebuchet.

Minty
07-10-2012, 22:21
Minty: I would love to see some builds, I have been the only Bret player in my area and figuring our best uses for that bsb have been my biggest challenges. is there somewhere on this forum that's best for that kind of thing?

Sent from NOBODY CARES!

Well, my typical BSB looks like:

Paladin w/ Virtue of Duty, Warrior Bane, Enchanted Shield, Barded Warhorse - 129 points
or
Paladin w/ Terrifying Mask of EEE!, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Barded Warhorse - 119

The mask is a personal preference, far from necessary.

Methinks you're falling into the all-too-common trap of getting greedy as a Bret player. Bret characters come stock with 2+/5++ (3+/5++ for a BSB since he can't take a mundane shield). How much more do you want?
Most armies would have to blow 40-50 points on magic gear to get the level of protection our characters get just for serving the Lady.

I think there are far better ways to spend your points than gluing more armour to a ball of armour.


If you want more advice, look here: http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=87

HereComesTomorrow
08-10-2012, 11:57
The Brettonians book needs an immediate update as far as I'm concerned. It has too many underpriced items and vows. Also the Field Trebuchet is grossly underpriced. 90pts for a Stone Thrower that uses the large round template and does strength five hits. I pay 85pts for my Rock Lobba. Each of those Field Trebuchets should be 180pts. Just based on the their damage output alone. What happened was when the 8th edition book modified regular Stone Throwers from strength 4 no armour saves all the way down to strength 3 with armour saves they didn't adjust the Field Trebuchet. Thus you now have the best Warmachine points wise in all of Warhammer.

I've never known someone who think Brets need an update because they're OVERpowered.

Brets are a solid army, just a limited one. Lord builds are fun to play with but that's about the most you'll get to change. The main problem being that you'll generally just be taking Knights Of The Realm, Men at Arms, Pegasus knights, trebuchets and grail knights. It leaves you a bit limited on army composition. Maybe knights errant with the errantry banner if you're feeling saucy. I personally don't rate archers unless you're fighting undead, where their cheap flaming attacks are really useful.

People also have a tendancy to under-estimate them, as they're old and not widely played, but they can a difficult nut to crack and can crack back really hard if played right, as several of my opponents have found out.