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x-esiv-4c
12-05-2006, 17:54
Are Skaven Assassins worth their points cost? What gear do you give them in general or is it 100+ points you can throw somewhere else?

Artemis_Quinn
12-05-2006, 18:46
I personally like having a lone assassin when I can spare the points.... they're great skirmisher killers, and great at destroying warmachines when you scout them (and they're a lot easier to scout since they're by themselves).

I've never used them hidden before, but my skaven units never plan on winning unit vs. Unit combat anyways, unless I get 2 units in there.

Personally, I think they'd be more worth it if there weren't so many other options.... like plague priests and Warlock engineers.

but that's just one rat's outlook.

squeekenator
12-05-2006, 20:42
Nup. They're horribly overpriced for what they do, which isn't really that much. For the price of a single decent Assassin, you could get another clanrat unit. I wonder which is more worth your points?

Artemis_Quinn
12-05-2006, 21:58
I'm not saying that assassins couldn't or even shouldn't be cheaper, I'm just saying that they are takable....

As far as worth goes I think that's a hard choice, an extra clanrat unit or an assassin.

Whereas an extra clanrat unit has lots of static CR it's virtually crap. I've stopped even taking commands in my units since I never do anything productive with those units anyways. They just run and hand over VPs....

However, if I just bolstered a pre-existing clanrat unit with an assassin with weeping blades then I challenge when he reveals himself (which makes him go first even when they charge! *evil grin*) thus allowing him to either remove a champion model from the fightand give lots of CR (because even one strike is potentially 3 wounds) or remove a champion from returning attacks and reduce the number of models that can strike the unit.

Also, they may be horribly overpriced, but I'd rather use an assassn to scout forward, tear apart a warmachine crew with something like bands of power and warpstone Am. than any other unit.... since they can usually get closer to start with and are jsut more reliable.


All I know is that he's definitely worth waaay more than a unit of clanrats in my book.... maybe he needs support up close against units, but so do they. But they don't have the versatility, and he can always support a charge with that extra damage he's sure to do.

So all in all, not my favorite character choice, but he's not bad. And definitely beyond comparing to lowly clanrats.

Slekith
12-05-2006, 23:00
As a Skaven player (since I was 13 :D) I have to say:

Assasin + Warpstone Shuriken

Go arround the battlefield protected by your units or terrain features and kill vulnerable enemy targets! ala: charriots, spellcasters, warmachines and the like

metallegion
14-05-2006, 20:32
Plus... you only have to paint one model.. versus 30! ;)

Mad Makz
15-05-2006, 00:05
Assasins have their uses, unfortunately MOST of their uses can be duplicated by more cost effective characters (hero with the Languisher Sword and Bands of Power) or more cost effective units (Gutter Runners).

However, Assasins can bolster gutter runners, making for quite a nasty scouting combat unit, this is probably where they are most streamlined.

If you were playing a 3000 point plus game, I'd even consider taking two in one unit of gutter runners, one hidden, the other not. It would be quite a nasty surprise for the opponent to see one assasin, think they can take it, then have to deal with another with weeping blades popping out.

But it is a huge points cost which is very vulnerable to magic and shooting.

skavenguy13
15-05-2006, 12:44
I suggest everyone take a look at the Council Of Thriteen. (check my sig).

Basically, I think assassins cost double the points they should, or have very bad capacities. They're character killers, yet they struggle to kill a mage hero in 1 round. And 1 round is all they get if you're facing a rather good unit.And the hero you're facing is quite probably worth a little less points than a naked assassin. Plus, they can arrange something with challenges so you'll be stuck against a champion or get your assassin killed.

You could try using him as a crowd-clearer, but with either S6 with 3 attacks or 5 S4 atttacks, it won't work well against armored opponents and cost you a damn lot of points.

As a scout, he is highly vulnerable to character sniping, a grapeshot or a no-LOS spell, like forked lightning. 1 spell/shot worth 100-150 points: it's a no brainer.

My advice: the chieftain is just as good (or very close to be) at crowd-clearing or character-killing. He can be the general if you don't have a warlord, he can actually give his LD, he costs half the points if naked, he can take magic armor AND he can actually have a save.

Chieftain+great weapon+shield, with the warpstone amulet if noone else already has it, is worth much less points and does a much better job.

x-esiv-4c
15-05-2006, 15:25
Thanks for the help guys.
Now whats the "Triad" thing I see popping up in peoples Skaven lists?

Neknoh
15-05-2006, 16:07
That's the Clan Eshin lists from Storm of Chaos, it's basically a skirmishing unit of three assassins without any magic goodies

Finnblood
15-05-2006, 16:44
Oh, assassins have like a billion possible uses and combos! The best I know, is giving him bands of power and warp amulet, then skitterleaping him to smash a chariot or some heroes. Scouting+gutters is also a good option.

patataman
15-05-2006, 20:12
Assasin wwhit the gouger....is a good cavarly killer
The assa have save the day a lot of times for me xD (yes could be cheaper but in RH cost 125 ponts xD)

squeekenator
16-05-2006, 08:32
That's the Clan Eshin lists from Storm of Chaos, it's basically a skirmishing unit of three assassins without any magic goodies

You forgot 5 important words. This should look like:

That's the Clan Eshin lists from Storm of Chaos, it's basically a skirmishing unit of three assassins [FOR THE PRICE OF TWO] without any magic goodies.

Patataman, plague priest with the gouger is an even better cavalry killer, and costs 35pts less. Hidden, shmidden. If someone sees a plague priest with the gouger sitting in a unit, they'll be charging the hell away from it with any knights they amy have, because with T5, he can shrug off the maximum of 4 lance attacks sent at him, then promptly rip open the knights.

Finnblood, if you skitterleap an assassin right up to a chariot, prepare to be charged and suffer d6 impact hits, probably killing you. Bands of power have power level 4, they aren't hard to dispel. And character killing? How does he kill a decent character? He gets shredded after attacking.

Overall, they should have a points drop (maybe 20pts?), get killing blow, and be unchallengable. Same goes for their elf-thing cousins.

An assassin with warpstone stars may be good at silencing artillery, but he costs more than a great cannon, and if you can't kill the whole crew in one turn (very likely), you'll be pounded by the cannon and killed. Artillery dice hits wounding on a 4+ when he has 2 wounds and no save means one very dead assassin. He also costs more than most lone wizards, and if your opponent has a lone wizard and you have a grey seer who rolled up skitterleap and an assassin with warpstone stars, they'd be an idiot to have thier wizard lord sitting in the middle of nowhere. Then again, the assassin will fail to kill the wizard and be zapped the next turn, won't he? 3 shots needing to hit and wound every time doesn't kill, but 2d6 S4 hits wounding a 2 wound model on a 4+ does.

x-esiv-4c
16-05-2006, 17:40
Now when it says in the warpstone star entry in magic weapons: "Eshin only" does that mean that the item can only be used by an assassin or can be used as long as the skaven army is a Clan Eshin army?

(i'm a WHFB nooblet)

J6mnik
16-05-2006, 20:51
Items marked "Eshin Only" can be used only by characters that belong to clan Eshin: assasins, master assasins, Eshin sorcerers etc. In each army you will find descrition which characters can use "clan specific" items.
Greetings!
J6mnik

patataman
16-05-2006, 22:57
You forgot 5 important words. This should look like:

blablabla...

Patataman, plague priest with the gouger is an even better cavalry killer, and costs 35pts less. Hidden, shmidden. If someone sees a plague priest with the gouger sitting in a unit, they'll be charging the hell away from it with any knights they amy have, because with T5, he can shrug off the maximum of 4 lance attacks sent at him, then promptly rip open the knights.

...blablabla

plague priest whit 2HW band of power and warpstone amulet y a good cavarly killer...belive me if he donīt have some protection he es dead meat :P
And if you recive a charge of a elite infantry (s6 on charge) he es mor than dead xD sorry but I donīt see this an opcion ^^u

squeekenator
17-05-2006, 08:56
Each attack from a standard unit of knights has a 17% chance to wound a priest with a warpstone ammy. That does not cause the required two wounds, and the plague priest does not die. He promptly kills 3 knights. Next turn, he kills another 3 knights, survives the counterattacks because they wound on 6s, and the knights flee due to your superior combat resolution.

skavenguy13
17-05-2006, 10:59
Yeah, but if there's a hero in or if it's S6 cavalry, the chances are much higher of killing the priest, ensuring the win.

fubukii
17-05-2006, 19:29
Thats why i would give that priest a censer, so he can kill some knights before they attack a pretty hefty thing to do.

squeekenator
18-05-2006, 07:36
Ah yes, the wonderful plague censer. Wipe off expensive cavalry before they have a chance to attack. Brilliant. Also, when you combine it with bands of power, you have S10 in the first round of combat.

skavenguy13
18-05-2006, 11:45
Also, when you combine it with bands of power, you have S10 in the first round of combat.

Useless. I only take both of them if I really can spare 25 points for the bands. They're only useful in the following rounds.

In the 1st round, S10 will only matter against large targets and very heavy cavalry. The censer should already kill a knight or two and you should be able to deal with the monster with something else (ratlings, jezzails, etc)

patataman
18-05-2006, 23:54
Useless. I only take both of them if I really can spare 25 points for the bands. They're only useful in the following rounds.

In the 1st round, S10 will only matter against large targets and very heavy cavalry. The censer should already kill a knight or two and you should be able to deal with the monster with something else (ratlings, jezzails, etc)


Agree streng 8 is good for cavarly kill...and for that propose I have me Kamikaze Cencer bearer!!!