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Tyrelli
07-10-2012, 16:23
Anyone else love how they are portrayed in the new codex ... Wish the miniture would better match the fluff /. Art

bad dice
07-10-2012, 16:28
I like them in the fluff abit
I love the drawings of them

I HATE THE MODEL
and I dislike the rules

So it makes me a little sad.

But I gues i just need to get a good look at the kit and see if I can make a nice conversion from it.

OgreBattle
07-10-2012, 16:34
I really like how the model's body and wings look. The wings are very nicely designed, they are a great balance between being machine slabs while still having a nice articulated silhouette.
The body is also good, it goes into the thrusters nicely

What causes the most criticism with the model is the dragon's head, specifically its neck. It sticks out from the geometric wings and body like a funky tentacle.
if you shorten the neck you get a more Eagle or bat-like silhouette, which fits with the solid slab wings and the thrusters at the back. Try it out.

*I wish the Fiends had the same jagged geometry to them.

... or be more machine-looking, with armor muscle plates over the hydraulics. The Fiends as they are are too rounded for my taste.

154233

Horus38
07-10-2012, 18:06
They seem aight: weapon option of a pimped out autocannon or a flamestorm flamer. Improved vector strike while zooming. Demonic possession/regen.
And all this appropriately costed so spamming doesn't seem effective.

Not a fan of the model though, but Bad Dice makes a good observation on that front.

Kevlar
07-10-2012, 18:07
What causes the most criticism with the model is the dragon's head, specifically its neck. It sticks out from the geometric wings and body like a funky tentacle.
if you shorten the neck you get a more Eagle or bat-like silhouette, which fits with the solid slab wings and the thrusters at the back. Try it out.

154233

Err, I think what garners the most criticism is the rear end. Specifically the giant gaping butt hole shaped jet that appears ready to lay an egg. Now that might have been a good modelling opportunity if, in fact, it could drop bombs. You could fill it full of the small chocolate easter eggs. But, unfortunately, it has no such option.

Haravikk
07-10-2012, 18:22
Err, I think what garners the most criticism is the rear end. Specifically the giant gaping butt hole shaped jet that appears ready to lay an egg. Now that might have been a good modelling opportunity if, in fact, it could drop bombs. You could fill it full of the small chocolate easter eggs. But, unfortunately, it has no such option.
I think that if you go the neck shortening route then the thruster butt definitely needs to be either hidden or made to look more mechanical, as it just looks silly. If you keep the long neck, then it absolutely needs a bigger tail to make it look more dragon-like, and this would likely look best replacing the thruster butt as well. I can't understand why the designer would give the model a long neck then a stupid stumpy tail that doesn't balance the look at all. The claws are also a bit distracting; I know it's a hybrid with a machine, but those are something I'd expect to be more animal like, though I expect they're not too hard to convert to have two long talons and a short one for example.

The wings however are great. The model overall suffers the same issues as the Storm Talon; there are a lot of good parts to it, but it's ruined by the not so good. Personally I dislike the mouth-mounted weapons; okay, fire breath I can understand, but if I were building a kit with the flame weapon then I'd just have the tongue and no weapon since it's more dragon-like that way. Dunno about the cannon, but I probably wouldn't take that anyway :)

Vaktathi
07-10-2012, 18:34
Anyone else love how they are portrayed in the new codex ... Wish the miniture would better match the fluff /. ArtAye, their fluff is actually rather good, but its dino-looking appearance really kills it, especially with the head largely being a cut/paste job from the Fantasy dragon.

Chacim
07-10-2012, 18:38
The helldrake does it's job in terms of rules which is to provide an AA platform to the CSM player. Most AA in the game is str 7 which makes it challenging to knock out a 12 armor flyer (the I.G. vendetta and the Stormravens from BAs and GKs) so having STR 8 shots and a str 7 vector strike is really nice, not to mention it has 12 armor itself, which is great for a flyer. In terms of how its modeled and how it looks. Thats all subjective, some are gonna love it, some will hate it, most will feel "meh" about it.

Col. Dash
07-10-2012, 18:46
And some like me if it is to be used will sub in a FW fighter for it. It unfortunately competes with FA slots if I use the codex for my army.

blackcherry
07-10-2012, 19:15
I agree with Col. Dash. My hell talon and hell blade may be getting some more use now.

Plague Lord
07-10-2012, 23:00
The model is hideous but the art is amazing!

Azazel
07-10-2012, 23:05
I got the model, I like it. Its unlike any other flyer and suitibly chaotic. The rules and the fluff are also very good.

I don't think I'll ever write another army list that doesn't include one.

samiens
07-10-2012, 23:05
Having built and (almost) painted one I actually really like the model in real life- the jet exhaust doesn't look weird etc.

Ruleswise I love it- although id always take the baleflamer

bad dice
07-10-2012, 23:09
Having built and (almost) painted one I actually really like the model in real life- the jet exhaust doesn't look weird etc.

Ruleswise I love it- although id always take the baleflamer

Yea the bale flamer seems the way to go. Also the other gun is so dam small compared to the ones on the fiend

Nonalyth
08-10-2012, 12:30
I think the model is great, and the rules seem good, at least in theory. An armour 12 flyer with 5++, Daemonic Possession and It Will Not Die is going to be hell to destroy. It does seem a little under-gunned, but if I'm reading the rules correctly, it can Vector Strike and then fire at a completely different target. It has the potential to take out two enemy flyers in a single turn, and if that's not air supremacy I don't know what is.

Soldado
08-10-2012, 12:45
I love the rules, but not the model, and I'm pondering about how 'count as' the drake. More oriented to a plane/craft than a dragon. Any ideas? :)

Ohris
08-10-2012, 13:19
I think the model is great, and the rules seem good, at least in theory. An armour 12 flyer with 5++, Daemonic Possession and It Will Not Die is going to be hell to destroy. It does seem a little under-gunned, but if I'm reading the rules correctly, it can Vector Strike and then fire at a completely different target. It has the potential to take out two enemy flyers in a single turn, and if that's not air supremacy I don't know what is.


Also it can fly off the board Vector striking something as it goes... so even flying off the board is not a complete waste of the turn since it cant shoot... still can vector strike.

Beppo1234
08-10-2012, 13:22
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?354376-Morf-s-Night-Lords

go check out Morf's log. He did exactly what I've been plotting to do when I return to home base. It's a good model, and if you omit the neck and head, it looks awesome, IMO.

x-esiv-4c
08-10-2012, 13:23
I'm going to use my forgeworld chaos flyers as helldrake proxies.

Narf
08-10-2012, 15:27
Can anyone give a size comparison between the helldrake and lazerbeak from the DotM movie?

http://images.wikia.com/transformers/images/9/98/Dotm-laserbeak-toy-deluxe-1.jpg

Easy E
08-10-2012, 18:57
This bad boy makes the Lightning II look inspired!

I do love the wings though.

Johnnya10
14-10-2012, 00:51
When it was said that we were getting a dragon, I hated it.

When I saw it, I thought it was much better than what I imagined and I liked it.

Now that I have one built and I'm half way through painting it, I think it looks great.

As for the rules, I'm looking forward to seeing it rip through loyalist craft. I took the hades cannon for mine. The Flamers is awesome, but I have to deal with a lot of flyers and I needed more aa. All in all, I'm a very happy Chaos bunny. 8 out of 10 eight-pointed stars from me.

LordofPleasure
18-10-2012, 07:45
I like the model i am satisfied with the set of rules. I am almost done painting the first of two i include in my 2000 pts roster. I wish GW would consider a bit the transportation of this model having wingspan that occupy some space in my case i tried to use pairs of earthmagnets in wing joints, but it weights outfront so the wings slide touching the ground. maybee with a little bit more patent it would be firm but... a fine model costing 60€ should be modular for transportation. I badly wanted talon to be a part of the flyers for my beloved army... but its ok with heldrake too.

Xyxel
18-10-2012, 08:59
Pilot was merged with machine by warp powers and in the end it is a daemonmachine. Lose rear chicken legs and fantasy dragon head/neck and this model looks good.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/419118-Chaos%2C%20Chaos%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Conversion %2C%20Daemonforge%2C%20Daemonmachine%2C%20Daemons. html

Nonalyth
18-10-2012, 09:55
That's pretty damn cool.

Attomsk
18-10-2012, 17:48
Most of these hell drake conversion look worse than the original model. However this one is just awesome:

155132

Vlad Urkana
18-10-2012, 19:36
@LordofPleasure: You could use a counter-balancing pin to solve the issue of the wings tipping forward if there is room at the joint. You would just glue the pin into either the wing or the body and let it slide into the corresponding piece. The pin or pins will hold the wing in its relative vertical position while the magnets will hold the wing to the body.

Jayden63
18-10-2012, 23:41
Most of these hell drake conversion look worse than the original model. However this one is just awesome:

155132

This is exactly the same pose I want to put mine into (it should show up next Tuesday). I hope its not difficult. Its a pose from Reign of Fire where the dragon is scorching the caravan. Its just bad ass imagery.

CrownAxe
19-10-2012, 00:59
Most of these hell drake conversion look worse than the original model. However this one is just awesome:

155132

What did that conversion do for the tail?

Kevlar
19-10-2012, 01:21
What did that conversion do for the tail?

Pointing it straight down so it isn't as obnoxious is a good start.

Fagerlund
19-10-2012, 01:41
What did that conversion do for the tail?

I think it looks like the Lasher Tendrils from the Maulerfiend?

Valorel
19-10-2012, 10:02
I think it looks like the Lasher Tendrils from the Maulerfiend?

I think the same.

Is there a link to a "how to" of this conversion?

Rabbitden
19-10-2012, 13:43
I'm yet to purchase the Heldrake but i'm not too keen on the way the wings point downwards on the standard model. Does anyone know if the wings are on a 'ball and socket joint' as i'd like the wings to be more or less horizontal as if the Drake is gliding across the battlefield?

Joewrightgm
19-10-2012, 15:37
The heldrake model has grown on me; at first it looked off, but I think it looks like it should.

Murphy80
21-10-2012, 14:42
I've been planning a "Helbat" conversion of the Heldrake, as well, using the Terrorgheist head. I really love the dynamic pose of that dragon posted above. I'd love a guide on that! It's too bad that the base model needs so much work because the unit is amazing on the battlefield. I've been using the a proxied Heldrake to toast marines for weeks now. I don't have a single complaint about it. In my very fist game with the Heldrake, it killed 2 light tanks and nearly 30 marines. I haven't been as lucky with the tanks since then, but I'm in double-digit marine kills every game.

I wrote a detailed review and tactics guide of the Heldrake over at Hubpages. If you haven't really poured over the rules for it yet, check out my review:

http://murphy80.hubpages.com/hub/Heldrake-Review-and-Tactics-Chaos-Space-Marines

Thanks!

keegkhan
24-10-2012, 01:23
@Soldado
I use the Witch Kings Fell Beast with a Chaos Marine riding it. Slapped on some arms (Tyranid Warrior rending claws) and a few other vehicle-esk bits and voilà! You have yourself a very drake looking critter that none of my opponents have had any problem with.

Just an idea.

Jayden63
24-10-2012, 04:27
I got my first heldrake model today, and I must say I am somewhat dissapointed in it. I like the model, I think when I'm done building it and with a few conversions it will look cool. But what I'm disappointed in is the actual amount of plastic. There is no way this model should be this expensive. The ork dakkajet/bomber kit has tons more actual plastic, parts to make different bombs and other extra detail bits so the modeler actually has a bit of choice. Even more so is that the plane itself is probably just a tich bigger over all and is 20 dollars less. The Heldrake kit has a little more bulk going for it than the DE flyer (which is really cool looking and a great bit cheaper) but no where near the bulk of a stormraven which is only a few dollars more.

When your done with it you will only have one spare part and there are just no options at all. I understand its the new shiny, but damn, I am exceedingly glad I did not pay anywhere near retail price for this kit.

sprugly
24-10-2012, 09:04
I'm planning to get a heldrake at some point in the future and have been thinking about how to convert it.

I remember seeing an article a while ago where some guy made vehicle damage markers like a little Smokey fire by building up a shape with red orange and yellow lichen pieces and then spraying the top and outside edges with black and grey spray paint to make Smokey bits with the first colours showing through from the inside.

I wonder if this could be done to the 'drake to give it the feel of the picture in the codex?
Sprugly

Kevlar
24-10-2012, 12:24
I think the model is bad and for me the rules are bad too.

It is okay as an anti-infantry platform, but its limited use, 2-3 turns max, makes it very overpriced for what you can do with it.

Its anti-tank value is extremely lack luster. It should have been given 2 hades, or at least the option to upgrade to twin linked lascannons. It certainly doesn't seem worth its very high price tag, in points or dollars.

The only positive is its fairly survivable.

obleeke
24-10-2012, 13:32
1.- Rules: it is a good choice. It's effective. If they were cheaper (some people even have complained about this) they wolud be awesome, maybe too much. I think they're ok.

2.- Miniature: this is the eternal debate. I have never bought a single mini I didn't like. I always convert them (in fact, I haven't bought a metal/finecast character for years). If you think of the Helldrake as a ship, you can use the Hellblade from Forgeworld. If you think of a dragon, well, use a dragon (maybe with some armor).

MarshalFaust
24-10-2012, 16:42
I had the same dilemma of really liking its rules but felt that the model was sub par in its execution. here is my conversion solution. im pretty happy with how it turned out.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?355906-Marshalfaust-takes-on-the-Heldrake

Bonzai
24-10-2012, 17:51
Hmm... that gives me some ideas Faust, thanks.

Fluff wise? I love it.

Rules wise? It's ok... more or less.

Model wise.... It shares the same problem that I had with the other new Daeon Engines. It seems out of place to me. I believe that the problem lies in that there are no imperial inluences. Even the defieler has a boxy IG style design. These? Not so much. It would have been better IMHO, if you could tell that it was once an imperial fighter, and then was warped and corrupted. As it stands, it's a metalic fantasy dragon.

MarshalFaust
24-10-2012, 18:09
I like the fact that the daemon engines are not just warped versions of imperial designs but rather new insane creations by the dark mechanicum. it implies that the forces of chaos have a much broader culture than simply evil twisted former imperials and further seperates them from the stagnant adeptus mechanicus and their view of technology. The rounded armor and baroque filigree on the forge/malerfiend and heldrake are a really great design asthetic that seperates chaos marines from the boxy loyalists the only problem is that by comparison it makes their older vehicle kits look plain. It would love to have a new predator / rhino / landraider kit that incorporates the same design principles but i also understand the realities of producing new kits. the problem with the Heldrake kit is that the GW designers seemed to have taken their brief for a chaos dragon flier far too literal and it suffers from a lack of editing.

jeffzcubfan
24-10-2012, 18:16
I'm yet to purchase the Heldrake but i'm not too keen on the way the wings point downwards on the standard model. Does anyone know if the wings are on a 'ball and socket joint' as i'd like the wings to be more or less horizontal as if the Drake is gliding across the battlefield?

Rabbitden,

the wings, legs, neck, and head are on a ball socket as is the part of the wing where the "arms" connect. So there is some manuevering. The biggest obstacle to free posing of the wings are the (for lack of a better term), body panels above the joints on the wings. The upper carapace juts out over the main body and the spiked panels limit the wing placement unconverted. A bit of filing/jointing and minor conversion can correct that.

I've glued my model in its pose, but am considering now adding green stuff to sculpt in flesh/muscles. The forgefiend/maulerfiend has locations on the body where you can bring flesh tones into you work. I'm thinking of adding that in areas around the wings or lags to make it look like they are becoming muscle powered instead of machine powered.

Jeff

Aryllon
24-10-2012, 23:36
These ideas are all amazing! I hadn't considered a heldrake for my nurgle-themed force (had planned a blight drone instead), but this has got me reconsidering!

Following that train of thought, I might try to give it a turtle head (pft, hehe). An old jowly beady-eyed short-billed snapper turtle. Something like a krootox head but more mechanical. Or a big maggot head, ugh.

prowla
27-10-2012, 10:51
AAAGH!

I'm constanty annoyed that the Drake has wings AND hands. In flying animals fingers have morphed into wing structures - bats actually have their thumb as a manipulative claw but rest of the fingers have elongated to form the "ridges". That's why the drake anatomy looks look so weird - the wings are growing out of the Drake's forearms..

Second thing - the hindlegs are missing um, basically the shin, knee and the thigh all together. Oh come on. I know it's part daemon, part machine, but so far pretty much every daemon I've seen has it's anatomy pretty close to actual animal/human anatomy.

Well, at least it has the cloaca right..

Kevlar
27-10-2012, 13:15
AAAGH!

I'm constanty annoyed that the Drake has wings AND hands. In flying animals fingers have morphed into wing structures - bats actually have their thumb as a manipulative claw but rest of the fingers have elongated to form the "ridges". That's why the drake anatomy looks look so weird - the wings are growing out of the Drake's forearms..

Second thing - the hindlegs are missing um, basically the shin, knee and the thigh all together. Oh come on. I know it's part daemon, part machine, but so far pretty much every daemon I've seen has it's anatomy pretty close to actual animal/human anatomy.

Well, at least it has the cloaca right..

Yes, I too get upset when my fantastic space daemons modelled after mythological critters aren't exactly like something you see on Wild Kingdom. They got the Orks all wrong too. Real Orks are blue, not green. Everyone knows this.

tuo
27-10-2012, 23:39
I am currently facing the same problem as many other, and have experimented with the new kits. While I am still puzzled with how to make my fiends look fitting, I am quite happy with my first try with the dragon. I wanted it to fit my chaos flyers from forge world and did a very rough and quick conversion, my next one will drop the claws/arms and maybe the head.

Painting is underway, but I took a (rather bad) pic:

156230

Wyrmwood
27-10-2012, 23:49
That's a lovely red; despite the WIP nature, what colour/s did you use?

tuo
27-10-2012, 23:59
Hehe, I get this question all the time, regardless if someone sees my Word Bearer Marines, their vehicles, larger stuff...

Sadly, everytime I mention how I do it, people scuff at me ;)

Basecoat whatever you want (I use white for characters, grey for most of my troops, black for vehicles to get a general tone). Then I use Blood Angels Red (whatever it is called now, I don't buy this one color from GW as I use it so much), I actually use a similar spray can spray from Game Color.

Now comes the only way I know of how to get this effect:

I use an airbrush with

1) agrax earthshade / devlan mud
2) nulin oil

The last two steps are done "wet in wet". Spray it only only enough so that everything looks wet, do not spray anough so you can actually see any ink/wash pools.

Afterwards (which has not yet been done with this model): drybrush it heavily with a brighter color, I use the dry silver and the dry white from GW for this.

Then another very "far away" (don't know how to explain it any other way...you notice it when the "far away" stream of nulin oil hits the model) airbrush coat of nullin black or sometimes simply very thinned down black when I do vehicles (on everything smaller, the washes from GW work better when airbrushed).

Now I know what comes next: you don't airbrush inks.

I have no other easy, fast way to achieve this deep red, so I will continue to do it, and I am too bad at painting to reproduce the same effect with a normal brush.

Sorry :/ I am not skilled enough to achieve the same effect without an airbrush and washes :/ (I am regularly loughed at for this procedure, but I stick to it)

btw: english is not my native tongue, so I am not able to explain the procedure that well :/

regards

tuo

wargame_insomniac
28-10-2012, 00:25
I had the same dilemma of really liking its rules but felt that the model was sub par in its execution. here is my conversion solution. im pretty happy with how it turned out.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?355906-Marshalfaust-takes-on-the-Heldrake
This conversion is much believable as daemon engine- it looks as if mutated from FW Hellblade/Hellatlon.

wargame_insomniac
28-10-2012, 00:34
What are people arming their Heldrake's with?

So far I think I might be lacking on anti-tank / antiflyer weapons in my CSM army. So far I plan on having a multimelta (Hellbrute), 2 melta guns (Raptor squad, and 3-6 Obliterators.

The Baleflamer seems perfect at killing MEQ (but I will have Chosen and/or Warp Talons for that).
The Hades Autocannon seems great at anti-flyer with 4 S8 shots (but only AP4).

What would you take given my above choice of AT weapons?

Thanks

James

Jayden63
28-10-2012, 03:16
In my opinion the Baleflamer is the only weapon it should have. There are so many better ways to get more S8 shots than the Hades autocannon, especially for the points. Even as a platform for hunting other aircraft there are units that do it better. However, its been my experience that you can't have too many highly mobile template weapons. The Baleflamer just happens to be good at killing everything except 2+ saves. Yeah the ap3 may be over kill against an ork horde, but your still going to kill more orks in one swoop than the Hades will all game.

prowla
28-10-2012, 03:54
Yes, I too get upset when my fantastic space daemons modelled after mythological critters aren't exactly like something you see on Wild Kingdom.

I know, right? It's like GW tanks with no suspension and miniaturized turrets all over again!

It all comes down to biomechanics (warpmechanics?). If the daemons could do everything by "magic", they wouldn't need much of a body structure. I don't think they do have much of body structure in the Warp, anyway. Yet, in physical realm, everything from Bloodletters to Greater Daemons to Daemon Princes has muscles to swing those nasty weapons, so it seems that they when they affect the material universe, they need to obey the physical laws for basic stuff, and hence they need structures that work like real-life counterparts. Of course, they can often reshape/regenerate their matter etc. and cheat a bit, but anyways. Even Flamers of Tzeentch seem to have muscles.

So when we get to the point where you have a big daemon-possessed warpdragon-machine flying around, having the wings come out of the forearm is basically the same than a human swimming by using only his elbows - makes no sense for the daemon to do this, if it's aim is to have efficient and controllable wings. Same goes for the legs - if you want to use them to reach out and grasp something, you want to have a full leg, not just one that's basically the table of the foot and a few toes sticking out. You cannot even walk on those legs - a dreadnought has more natural way of walking!

Here's how actual birds of prey do it - where the yellow part ends is half way up to the table of the foot, first joint after brown feathers start is the heel.

156257

Aryllon
28-10-2012, 08:51
I know, right? It's like GW tanks with no suspension and miniaturized turrets all over again!

It all comes down to biomechanics (warpmechanics?). If the daemons could do everything by "magic", they wouldn't need much of a body structure. I don't think they do have much of body structure in the Warp, anyway. Yet, in physical realm, everything from Bloodletters to Greater Daemons to Daemon Princes has muscles to swing those nasty weapons, so it seems that they when they affect the material universe, they need to obey the physical laws for basic stuff, and hence they need structures that work like real-life counterparts. Of course, they can often reshape/regenerate their matter etc. and cheat a bit, but anyways. Even Flamers of Tzeentch seem to have muscles.

So when we get to the point where you have a big daemon-possessed warpdragon-machine flying around, having the wings come out of the forearm is basically the same than a human swimming by using only his elbows - makes no sense for the daemon to do this, if it's aim is to have efficient and controllable wings. Same goes for the legs - if you want to use them to reach out and grasp something, you want to have a full leg, not just one that's basically the table of the foot and a few toes sticking out. You cannot even walk on those legs - a dreadnought has more natural way of walking!

Here's how actual birds of prey do it - where the yellow part ends is half way up to the table of the foot, first joint after brown feathers start is the heel.

156257

The problem with this theory being, the heldrake doesn't need effeciency in that sense as it doesn't fly by flapping it's wings... it has a jet engine (and 'magic'). Seems like the wings are just for maneouvrability.

That said, fairly pointless discussion no??!

Fagerlund
28-10-2012, 11:02
What are people arming their Heldrake's with?

So far I think I might be lacking on anti-tank / antiflyer weapons in my CSM army. So far I plan on having a multimelta (Hellbrute), 2 melta guns (Raptor squad, and 3-6 Obliterators.

The Baleflamer seems perfect at killing MEQ (but I will have Chosen and/or Warp Talons for that).
The Hades Autocannon seems great at anti-flyer with 4 S8 shots (but only AP4).

What would you take given my above choice of AT weapons?

Thanks

James

Baleflamer. I have played a Decimator with a Butcher Cannon (pretty much the same as a Hades Autocannon) a couple of times, and in my experience a single gun shooting 4 shots at BS3 simply won't do very much. If it had the option of taking two I see a use for it, but now it can't so go for the super strong flamer that you can pretty much place anywhere you want on the board every turn. Heavy weapon teams like Devastators/Lootas/Havocs will be my priority target at least!

Minsc
28-10-2012, 11:10
Rulewise I like the Heldrake. It's probably the first really balanced flier in 6th Ed.
(However since it's the only flier made during 6th, that's only to be expected.)

Modelwise it's a piece of junk. One should not have to have a Ph.D in modelling-skills in order to make a €50-model look decent.
I'll probably find something else and use as count-as, perhaps a Forgeworld flier.

prowla
28-10-2012, 11:52
The problem with this theory being, the heldrake doesn't need effeciency in that sense as it doesn't fly by flapping it's wings... it has a jet engine (and 'magic'). Seems like the wings are just for maneouvrability.

That said, fairly pointless discussion no??!

I was thinking about that, but I think it would be a lot more advantageous for the heldrake to be able to more nimbly manipulate it's wings' leading edges. After all, if moving at fast speed, you don't need much change in the wing shape to get an effect - being able to use wrist and finger joints to make small changes would make it a lot more maneuverable in tight spots. Same effect than when putting your arm out from a car window on the highway.

And no, not pointless - if we can discuss how Marines would be IRL, why couldn't we discuss daemon engines in the same sense! It's all for fleshing out the universe, anyways, and it's fun to think about these things.