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Glenn87
08-10-2012, 17:14
Hey guys,
I've been ignoring fantasy for a few months now (new 40K releases and everything), but it's itching again.
Now I fancy older models, and have been thinking about making an army, completely made of 4th-5th Edition models.

Thing is, that most armies have either changed that much (old Orcs look like modern Goblins), or have gotten alot of extra stuff.
So I came with the old Undead models.

Now would I be able to make a decent VC army out of those models? Or would I be better off with Tomb Kings? Or shouldn't I even bother?
(I must say, should there be things that are needed in the army that didn't exist back then, I'll buy them, but I'll try to use old models as much as possible).

Scalebug
08-10-2012, 17:54
Shouldn't be a problem. There are a few items here and there that ended up in in the Tomb Kings list when they split, 13 years ago now, such as chariots, mummies and screaming skull catapults, but most of the original "generic undead" are in the Vampire count army.

And with a bit of creativity, it is really only the catapults that wouldn't find a place in an 8th edition Vampire counts army, as you could do things like Mummies = Grave Guard, Chariots = Black Coache or corpse cart, Carrion = Fell bats.

Size differences is really negligble for most purposes, it is really only when it comes to monsters and such that it matters (what with true line of sight and all), and even then, you can mitigate the differences with some creative basing of the older model, to put it closer to its modern counterparts footprint and silluette.

Go for it. An added bonus with doing an old-school Undead army is that you could probably with a minimum of modifications play it as either list.

Glenn87
08-10-2012, 19:47
Alright,
Hey, a question to the people who've been playing since 4th.
There used to be a HUGE boxed set with a whole 2000pts Undead Army in it.

Does anyone know if the models (Skeletons and stuff) are Plastics from the smaller boxes, or metals?

noneshallpass!
08-10-2012, 21:49
I use these miniatures to play both armies. I leave the Vampires, ghosts, zombies and ghouls home when doing TK. And the chariots, casket and catapults when doing VC. No modifications, and looks nice. The later seems to have the easiest time doing without the new big toys. I do not want to give up TK, I had a lot of fun with them in 7th edition.

Go for it!

Scalebug
08-10-2012, 22:25
Alright,
Hey, a question to the people who've been playing since 4th.
There used to be a HUGE boxed set with a whole 2000pts Undead Army in it.

Does anyone know if the models (Skeletons and stuff) are Plastics from the smaller boxes, or metals?

Hmm... I don't recall any such box. Pretty sure there have never been whole armies of that size sold. Couple of boxed sets released with armybooks (around 5th ed), battalion boxes (1999-present), and the original 'undead legion' (or something) skeleton box with 20-30 skeletons, five riders and a chariot, back in the days, but never an all out 2000 points army.

Dr Grant
09-10-2012, 02:22
I think he might be referring to the box on this page:

http://www.picstopin.com/2560/game-undead-army-wallpaper-wallpapers-get/http:%7C%7Cwallpapersget*com%7Cwallpapers%7C2012%7 C03%7Cgame-undead-army-wallpaper-1920x2560*jpg/

(can't direct link to the image as it seems to be some sort of quiz/spamming tedium)

That was one of at least 3 huge army boxes released around 1995, there were definitely also High Elves and Orcs, possibly more. That army looks to me like it could be 2000 points back then when there was a 50% character allowance. The skeleton models in that (horsemen and chariots, can't make out on the picture if there were foot warriors in the box) were exactly the same as the small 5 boxes of skeletons from the same era.

The only other box I can think of is the one Scalebug mentioned which was again made up of the same plastic skeletons but was nowhere near 2000 points.

I loved that era of Undead, great army book and the first army I collected a real force for. Ah the days of skeleton horsemen, chariots and warriors walking beside mummies, carrion, skull chuckers, vampires, wights and all 750 points of Nagash, simpler times :-)

Edit: On closer inspection I'm pretty sure the block of 20 infantry at the back are those basic skeleton warriors.

Greyshadow
09-10-2012, 02:37
There are some great PLogs on Warseer (eg. Harr's Plog) where people have taken older models and given them modern paint schemes. Works well.

Soundwave
09-10-2012, 16:09
Most of my armies tend to be a mix of old and new.Love it this way,its a fantastic look at the models through the ages.I am kitted out with a stack of old "undead" lets say for my v.c and what i have done is use the old carrion models as fell bats,the old skeleton horsemen steeds are great for the new black knight kit as the spare riders fit either way,mummies i throw into my zombie unit,as for the chariots and screaming skull catapult i will try a conversion of sorts for corpse carts and or mortis engines.But its fine as long as your opponents or tournaments are not really strict.

Dark Aly
09-10-2012, 16:35
My own undead army features all 3 ages of skeletons to some degree, my fell bats are carrion and my wights are old marauder armoured skellies- although I don't use the mummies as they don't fit aestheticaly nor do I use my old catapults or chariots.

The Clairvoyant
10-10-2012, 20:56
The old plastic skeletons still get used in both my undead armies (although admittedly more in my TK as i had a load of archers before The Split) and most of the ones i used for my VC have since been boxed as they've been replaced with newer ones. That said, the old ones are a much better scale than the 2nd gen/current TK plastics.
My carrion i used for a long time as fell bats before they finally got put back to their original use when the 6th ed TK book came out. My old skullchukkas are again in a box but then you'd have no use for them in a VC army.
All of the old wight models can obviously be used as grave guard and the old black knight models (or wight cavalry as they were then with 3 wounds each!).
I only have a few old metal zombies as they were 3 models to a blister pack for 4 and i resented paying 4 for 12pts of models and therefore paying 28 to get a unit of 20. Yes, even now the plastic box set is cheaper than it cost to make a unit of 20 15 years ago.

Oh and if you're going to go for spirit hosts, use the pre-4th ed ghosts. The generic 4th ed ghost was a horrible model. Even GW still used a load of the really old ghost models in their spirit hosts up until the latest army book!

Skywave
11-10-2012, 00:15
Hey guys,
I've been ignoring fantasy for a few months now (new 40K releases and everything), but it's itching again.
Now I fancy older models, and have been thinking about making an army, completely made of 4th-5th Edition models.

Thing is, that most armies have either changed that much (old Orcs look like modern Goblins), or have gotten alot of extra stuff.
So I came with the old Undead models.

Undead haven't changed much in size, unless you get very old stuff (pre-4th edition), wich can be a bit smaller. If you stick with 4th and 5th edition models, there won't be scale problem :)


Now would I be able to make a decent VC army out of those models? Or would I be better off with Tomb Kings? Or shouldn't I even bother?
(I must say, should there be things that are needed in the army that didn't exist back then, I'll buy them, but I'll try to use old models as much as possible).

If you want to make a current VC army with old models, a good part can be done with the old stuff. Only the newest entry would cause you some problem. Terrorgheist, Vargulf, Vargheists, Crypt Horrors, Hexwraiths, and the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine will all need either the newer models, or some creative work from older stuff. For example you could run a riderless 4th edition Zombie Dragon as a Terrorgheist, I doubt people will have problem with that.

The Corpse Cart have an older model (pre-4th edition) though, so you might want to look for that if you need one. Blood Knights could be made with the Blood Dragon characters from 5th and 6th edition if needed too. The Black Coach is a 5th edition model so I guess this one is good to go!


Alright,
Hey, a question to the people who've been playing since 4th.
There used to be a HUGE boxed set with a whole 2000pts Undead Army in it.

Does anyone know if the models (Skeletons and stuff) are Plastics from the smaller boxes, or metals?

Yes, the big army box contained the plastics models; Skeletons, Cavalry and Chariots were the same as the one sold separately.

FashaTheDog
11-10-2012, 02:41
Back in '94/'95 it was advertised as "a complete 2,000 point Undead army. Included...Necromancer Dieter Kelsnicht mounted on a Manticore, 6 Skeleton Horsemen, 20 Skeleton Warriors, 2 Undead Chariots, 2 Carrion, 2 Screaming Skull Catapults, 2 Wights, 3 Undead command, 12 Ghouls, 12 Zombies, and a Vampire Count. Also included in [the] boxed set [was] a booklet containing a full army list for all the models in the box plus point values, characteristics, magic items, and a set of full-color self-adhesive standards and banner for your army." It sold for $199.99. There was also a High Elf one for $215 with Prince Tyrion, a Hero on a Pegasus, a Tiranoc Chariot, 5 Dragon Princes, 5 Silver Helms, 12 Archers, 12 Spearmen, 8 Swordmasters, 10 Phoenix Guard, a Bolt Thrower with 2 crew, and the same deal with the rules and points as the Undead one as well as a Wood Elf army for $160 two years later, but I could not find a page ad for that, so I do not know the contents. I cannot find any other ones in my White Dwarf pile I have available, although a few older issues are inaccessible in the attic.

Glenn87
11-10-2012, 22:25
haha thanks for the info guys.

I've decided against buying it, as it is a huge amount of money (still an awesome box), and I've got other armies to maintain (mostly 40k).

Maybe it'll be an idea for the future.

Does anyone know if there was a Dark Elf box like that one? (probally not, but I've got a HUGE Dark Elf army, so buying a box of them would be considerable).