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Greyshadow
09-10-2012, 04:35
Hi All

I've been recently planning a games night where my brother and I will be fielding our two freshly painted new Warhammer armies, (very nicely painted armies, I might add!). As a prelude to the game, I'm making a custom scen for Dreadfleet that will award some slight benefits for the victor in the linked Warhammer battle that follows.

So far I have a nice setting, (Serpent Coast), story and have done some (somewhat) detailed analysis to determine the points values for the ships (subject to refinement through play testing) so I can create a balanced game. I've posted my points values in a separate post (See SG and FW thread if you are interested).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else has attempted to create linked battles using Dreadfleet and if anyone has any comment or advice.

Happy gaming

sulla
09-10-2012, 05:42
No DE ships meant I never even considered buying Dreadfleet unfortunately. Still a few copies in one of the independent game stores nearby so if I ever changed my mind, I could pick one up but I can't see it ever happening.

Greyshadow
09-10-2012, 06:09
Dreadfleet was a big addition to my paint que! Still, I've really enjoyed painting the set up and hope to take games onto Mighty Empires sea tiles eventually. This game bumped my Empire army to the right by six months. (Still got three ships left to paint too).

Petey
09-10-2012, 07:35
I like the idea and would like to use it for campaign games, though for bonuses to a follow up battle sounds interesting. If you could link your dreadfleet ideas, I d love to see them.

Tastyfish
09-10-2012, 12:47
I've always been tempted to use BFG rules, since they're set up to represent the Age of Sail type things.

Batteries are Bowfire/Hanguns
Lances are war machine batteries
Turrets is Weapon skill (it'd most be used for boarding if you strip out Ordnance, or for fighting off Harpies etc if you're keeping assault boats in)
Shields are crew skill (how quickly they can put out fires and deal with minor damage)

I'd stick with the standard rules for all the races, rather than giving Elves the Eldar rules (even though I think they arose from the old Man'O'War rules) and use these rules for large flying/swimming creatures like dragons (very agile, smaller hulls, and no shields/crewskill but hard to hit with warmachines). Could be tempted to add the Eldar's variable speeds depending on the wind direction in, for sail powered vessels - though I think you'd probably need to make this the norm rather than something specific to one or two races.

Probably best to leave Ordnance out (or one ship per fleet), though depending on what races you're after there's probably a few, fairly easy direct conversions - Torpedoes = Fireballs from wizards (especially if you pay extra for the melta variety), Assault boats = small flyers like scarab swarms, harpies, bats, etc, Fighters used almost solely for CAP and being warding runes. Probably find you end up with a lot of magic in your game if you add more than one ship, as it tends to escalate quite quickly - though suppose that works for things like Elves and monsters, I'd just avoid any torpedo escorts.

Rules are free online on the specialist games page and here is the algorithm for working out basic point costs (http://www.inisfail.com/bfg/bfg-points-for-ships.html).

Bladelord
09-10-2012, 13:29
Warhammer campaigns involving scenarios with specialist games (including Dreadfleet) would be very fun to play, especially if you have a Mighty Empire or home-brewed campaign map with coasts and special map features such as dungeons or a newly ruined city where Mordheim skirmishes could take part, perhaps as warbands clash for the possession of magic items. I've heard several veterans saying BFG rules might work fine, so it ought to be worth a try. Anyhow, please keep us updated on how you integrate Dreadfleet into the WHFB campaign. Too bad Dreadfleet didn't include a Dark Elf vessel. That was something of a big surprise to me when the box was released.

TheDungen
09-10-2012, 19:41
the problem is that dreadfleet is a story driven game about pirates. I'm guessing that you'd be better of digging up a man-o-war rulebook somewhere and use those rules instead.

Greyshadow
09-10-2012, 22:08
I've had a look at Man O' War, it is a lot more detailed than Dreadfleet and designed to be expandable. I am leaning towards Dreadfleet for a couple of reasons. The ships in Dreadfleet are quite versatile. For example, in my first game of Chaos vs Empire, will feature a magically created Tzeenchian Sea Hulk (Bloody Reaver), a Chaos Dwarf Daemonship (Black Kraken) and a Pleasure Barge of Slaanesh (Flamming Scimitar). I have bought a Man O' War Bretonian Galleon however to act as a flagship for our Bret player.

Thanks for the thoughts about using BFG, I do have the game and I think it may help develop my formula for points values that I will need. I'll let you know how I get on.

red_zebra_ve
10-10-2012, 16:20
Did a couple of campaigns once with Man O' War and WHFB.

The first was a 2 player that started as 5 Blood Ball games, followed by a couple WHFB (the loser of the BB games trying to capture the Winers Cup!), followed by a MOW game (the thieves trying to get away with the stolen Cup!). It was fun, the Cup now rest at the bottom of the sea inside a sunken BlackArk.

The second was a several players Mighty Empires like campaign, where the initial kingdoms where islands.

Crovax20
10-10-2012, 22:39
To be honest, I'd say look at Uncharted Seas instead... Their ships tie in pretty well with warhammer fantasy races and their doctrines. You got Dwarves, Humans, Orcs, Elves, Undead/Tomb Kings pretty well covered modelwise. Imho its rules are following the same general archetypes of Warhammer as well, Orcs are fighty/ramming, dwarves are tough, elves got fancy magic and agile ships etc.

Greyshadow
10-10-2012, 23:05
Wow - uncharted seas does look very impressive. Purchasing old Man O' War ships off ebay is not cheap. Spartan Games would be a good choice to get more ships. The reason I'll persist with my Dreadfleet plan, at least for now, is that I'd like the linked naval game to be the appetiser, a mini-game, before the main battle. Still, if I think there is a desire from the group for a more in depth and expandable game, Uncharted Seas definitely looks like the way to go.

Really nice models. Thanks for the tip Crovax!

Tastyfish
10-10-2012, 23:18
Man'o'War is from a different age I think, there's a lot of very silly things there. Specifically the ships.

FashaTheDog
10-10-2012, 23:50
Man'o'War is from a different age I think, there's a lot of very silly things there. Specifically the ships.

Ships with large whirling helicopter blades are serious business!

I think your best bet if you want to tie values to individual ships would be to either dig up the old Man O' War rules or even use Trafalgar from the Warhammer Historical rules (although the latter would require a little meshing of rules, but is still an easy thing). Now as for working within the confines of the box, I have never tried it, but please share your findings after others get a chance to tear into them.

As to a campaign, I have not played any mixed system campaigns in a long time. Did a 40K/Space Hulk one several times during 2nd and a few more during 3rd and early 4th, but never anything for Fantasy; just not enough interested/available players.

Dr Grant
12-10-2012, 00:16
Man'o'War is from a different age I think, there's a lot of very silly things there. Specifically the ships.

MOW is a bit barmy in places (orc drillakillas anyone?!?!) but it really is a great game. Me and 3 friends had a full day tournament a couple of weeks ago and had a blast, the rules stand up well, it's brilliantly tactical and (most) of the ships are really cool figures. I also love the visual, template based aspect of it which, as you say, is like going back in time to what I remember as a bit of a golden age for GW side-games.

For anyone who hasn't played it I really couldn't recommend it enough, one of the all time GW greats if you ask me.

Tarliyn
12-10-2012, 06:13
Just have it where one side or the other can get "hired" by you or your opponent to carry goods/troops/magical items/etc and then have the other side play off against ya using whatever victory conditions you deem fair. If the person who "hired" the crew wins they got their bonus if the person prevents them from deliverying their goods then they get the bonus. I wouldnt let trying to figure points values and stuff like that bog ya down. Use whats their already and just run with it. Use the rule of cool and have some fun with it :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Urgat
12-10-2012, 07:52
Regarding the "absentees" in DF, it's really not difficult to proxy any race with the existing rules. DF's strong point is that the rules are quite intuitive and it plays very fast.
For a normal Warhammer battle (that won't happen in the ship's grave yard dimension thing), you remove most of the supernatural hazards from the card deck (rains of fire should hardly happen in the normal world, Warhammer or not), and you change how the winds evolve to a simple double six ( first one gives you the direction, even: clockwise, odd: counter-clockwise, second dice gives you how much the wind marker moves). If you want fleets of smaller ships, you put together a few auxiliaries and you agregate their stats, and really the job's a good one.

Petey
12-10-2012, 19:57
Regarding the "absentees" in DF, it's really not difficult to proxy any race with the existing rules. DF's strong point is that the rules are quite intuitive and it plays very fast.
For a normal Warhammer battle (that won't happen in the ship's grave yard dimension thing), you remove most of the supernatural hazards from the card deck (rains of fire should hardly happen in the normal world, Warhammer or not), and you change how the winds evolve to a simple double six ( first one gives you the direction, even: clockwise, odd: counter-clockwise, second dice gives you how much the wind marker moves). If you want fleets of smaller ships, you put together a few auxiliaries and you agregate their stats, and really the job's a good one.

Agreed.

You can even do alternate captains, or swap out captains as you like, as they all seem relatively balanced against one another.

One idea my group had was using the high elf ship as the dark elves and swap out the dragons for 1 sea hydra, and the captain w Noctilus. Voila

Shadow_Steed
12-10-2012, 20:16
Sounds like a great idea!

One could do the same thing with Mordheim as a part of a bigger campaign.

Urgat
12-10-2012, 21:10
Well, Mordheim already has rules that cover pretty much all the armies I believe. Some are terrible, granted (like goblins... in a game that relies so much on initiative, my goblin band couldn't even climb ladders :rolleyes: ), but pretty much everything is there at least.

Petey
12-10-2012, 21:39
154762

Here you go, Mordheim 8th ed. crossover

Greyshadow
12-10-2012, 21:46
Like you ideas about managing the wind direction Urgat. (Like all comments so far actually).

Where I'm at: I have almost finished a Points Value calculator tool for Dreadfleet. I still need to add a couple of features but the framework is there now to do so. Basically, you enter the ship stats, armament, special rules and auxiliary details into an excel spreadsheet, and it will give you a points value for your newly designed ship. (I'll post the revised points values from for the basic ships, obtained from my more sophisticated calculator, in my post on the SG and FW forum.)

I am then leaning towards having fate status cards and other selected fate cards purchasable as upgrades. As the first linked game I intend to host will be using set ships, I hope the players will enjoy customising their ships before the battle.

I will upload the calculator when it's done, hopefully the community might like to use it.

Greyshadow
12-10-2012, 21:56
Cheers Petey, I've never played Mordheim but I thought Necromunda was great and I have had a look at the rules and really liked them. Probably a bit down the track but I'd definitely like to try something similar and link a Skirmish/Dungeon crawl game to Warhammer.

I am sure the game would stand on it's own but 8th Ed has been a big hit with me and my gaming group so I'll certainly be checking out the update you've provided.

Petey
12-10-2012, 22:47
Cheers Petey, I've never played Mordheim but I thought Necromunda was great and I have had a look at the rules and really liked them. Probably a bit down the track but I'd definitely like to try something similar and link a Skirmish/Dungeon crawl game to Warhammer.

I am sure the game would stand on it's own but 8th Ed has been a big hit with me and my gaming group so I'll certainly be checking out the update you've provided.

I'm glad you like it, let me know how you like it after a game or two and if you think it needs anything