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Rovient
10-10-2012, 00:26
I've decided to look on the bright side of the new codex and get the most out of it. What little wins have you found in the codex so far? Please try not to tear someone's suggestion to pieces (unless it's simply wrong).

I'll start;

Chaos Lords and Sorcerers in terminator armour can now take melta-bombs, since they're in the special issue wargear and nothing says that they can't in their entry. Gives a regular terminator HQ a nice, cheap anti-tank option.
Giving a Dark Apostle the mark of Tzeentch enhances his inv save to 3++, one of the best obtainable in the codex. This actually makes him more survivable in challenges than most enemy characters. The Dark Apostle also comes with a power maul, but there's nothing to stop you giving him any of the Chaos Artefacts, such as the murder sword, to make him a real threat in CC.
When Typhus is forced to challenge an enemy character who's part of a much larger unit, you don't have to attack the champion with the Man reaper. Typhus can instead use his Destroyer Hive attack, potentially hitting and killing enemies that are NOT even part of the challenges as well as the enemy character.
As with Typhus, the Black Mace is a great weapon to use in a challenge. If your opponent's character failed just 1 armour save or inv save that phase, all enemy models within 3" of your HQ will have to take a toughness test or die, no saves of any kind allowed. In a 10 man MEQ unit that's likely going to cause 9 hits (within 3") and 3 extra deaths. For GEQ that's 5 extra deaths. All on models that your HQ wasn't even allowed to attack!
You can give a non-psyker HQ the Scrolls of Magnus, as long as they have the mark of Tzeentch. I'm not sure, however, that they would be able to generate warp charge every turn, so this is certainly a bit iffy.


Any more nifty little tricks?

RanaldLoec
10-10-2012, 00:30
The warpsmiths abilities are quite nasty.

I don't fancy fielding a Leman Russ punisher to find all its shots are now gets hot.

Reducing ruins to a 5+ cover save.

Nasty for my IG and orks.

Amorphous
10-10-2012, 00:45
I wouldn't consider it a nifty trick, but the notion of rebuilding my Black Legion with Dark Vengeance Chosen as Troop choices led by Abaddon is kind of appealing :). Of course I'll need to fill out the squads a little more, and it obviously won't be a very big army modelwise, but I think it could look pretty awesome.

Theocracity
10-10-2012, 00:45
Chaos Spawn make a pretty nice way to play linebacker for a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut.

Baluc
10-10-2012, 03:37
Death guard have plague knives

Chosen come stock with uber-grit, easily having 5 attacks with hatred, or Ld10 counter attack

Harbinger
10-10-2012, 03:51
First bright spot... We recieved an update and have not been left floundering like some other armies (DA, BT, Tau, Eldar).

Second... A generally flexible list able to accomodate a number of play styles.

Third... We get Hatred of loyalist scum!!!

Finally, I know a lot of people do not like the Heldrake, but after being on the receiving end of a number of flamestorm cannons, I cannot wait to return the favor.

Jayden63
10-10-2012, 06:50
There are two psychic powers that I'm somewhat fond of for removing large mob/blob type units.

The nurgle power that makes all of a targets shooting weapons get hot. Throw that on a unit that brings multi-shot weapons and that unit will seriously think about not shooting next turn. Great way to stun lock a unit that isn't a vehicle. Imagine throwing it onto a Loota squad that gets 3 for shots for a turn.

The second power is the Slannesh excess one. Where a unit has to strike itself. Most units are within 1 of Strength and toughness. If that unit has a poor save its possible that you can wipe out a 1/3 to half of it. Imagine throwing that spell onto a blob squad (kill about half their number), large kroot squad (will kill about 2/3 of their number), ork boy squad (will kill about 1/3 of their number), gaunts (about half) etc.

Both are a great way of thining down armies that will bring a lot more bodies to the table than we will.

blackcherry
10-10-2012, 07:45
I don't really like what you are trying to do with the tread title, its rotten, but I will roll with it. This was pointed out in the tactica thread. The Demon weapon that is a Mace, is AP2 when wielded by a Demon Prince. Bad news for multi wound units.

Rovient
10-10-2012, 08:15
I don't really like what you are trying to do with the tread title, its rotten, but I will roll with it. This was pointed out in the tactica thread. The Demon weapon that is a Mace, is AP2 when wielded by a Demon Prince. Bad news for multi wound units.

Nice! Of course.

What's wrong with the thread name? It can be changed.

Zeroth
10-10-2012, 08:21
A positive win in the Chaod codex (for people not playing Chaos). The Daemon Prince cannot use the Khorne daemon weapon as it's "mark of khorne" only. The daemon prince does not have mark of khorne and it can't buy it either

Ohris
10-10-2012, 08:24
This was pointed out in the tactica thread. The Demon weapon that is a Mace, is AP2 when wielded by a Demon Prince. Bad news for multi wound units.

How is it AP2?

Chrysis
10-10-2012, 08:30
All Monstrous Creatures have the Smash rule. The Smash rule says all CC attacks made by this model are AP2 unless the weapon used is AP1. The Black Mace is not AP1, therefore when a Daemon Prince uses it the Smash rule makes it AP2.

Ohris
10-10-2012, 08:50
Ah okay so you have to smash with it though... Still the demon has 5 attacks and smash halves this so its 3 attacks + 1d6?

Or does smash work like 5+1d6 and then half the attacks? I would say 5/2+1d6 so 6,5 S10, AP2 attacks average?... very nice.

Narf
10-10-2012, 09:08
nope read the smash rule.

it provides a benefit and a another benefit if u halve ypur attacks. these are separate.

dblaz3r
10-10-2012, 09:09
All monstrous creature attacks except hammer of wrath have the smash rule (AP2), 'smash attack' halves the attacks and doubles the strength and is AP2. Smash and smash attacks are separate options of the same rule.

Mauler
10-10-2012, 10:56
What the last two chaps said. All attacks from a MC are AP2 regardless of using a Smash attack or not. The 1.0a BRB FAQ clarifies that you first halve the MC's attacks and then apply modifiers.

Poseidal
10-10-2012, 11:08
To me, the basic Chaos Marine seems incredibly good value.

Squallish
10-10-2012, 11:19
Chaos Sorcerors have 3 chances at Biomancy for 110pts, being able to cast 3 powers per turn. Add 40pts for a 3++ Invul, but be forced to take a Tzeentch Power.
Roll Endurance and cast it on Spawn for some good laughs (FNP and It Will Not Die is approximately a 4.25+ Save).
Roll Enfeeble to reduce the S of Powerfists before assaulting them with Walkers they can now barely hurt.
Tzeentch Sorcerors in Terminator Armour with Iron Arm + Boon of Mutation can reach incredible heights of stats and rules... with a Force Axe to boot.
Maulerfiends get 2 sets of lasher tendrils, so reduce incoming attacks by 2. Great for charging in to multi-S6-7 attack models like Trygons or Talos, who if Smashing halve their attacks again getting only 1-2 Attacks. Charge in 2 Maulerfiends to reduce them to 1 Attack Smash while doing 6 S10 attacks to them.
Don't charge them into units who will just be using grenades on you though, especially Meltabomb units.

MvS
10-10-2012, 11:50
The Boon Chart and the fact that throughout the game you can make Abbadon, Huron, Kharn, Ahriman, Typhus, Lucius, Fabius, any Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Warpsmith, Dark Apostle, Aspiring Champion, Cultist Champion, Chosen Champion, Possessed Champion, Terminator Champion, Berzerker Champion, Aspiring Sorcerer, Plague Champion, Noise Champion, Biker Champion, Raptor Champion and Warp Talon Champion even more powerful with the chance of receiving up to 27 profile and/or special rule boosts for every enemy character they destroy.

One such boost will even make them into a daemon prince!

Loads of fun.

PITBULL_101
10-10-2012, 12:10
Huron and Ahriman guarantee you get D3 infiltrating Infantry units from their traits - master of deception

How about 10 Infiltrating Terminators ? Or 20 Infiltrating Khorne Berzerkers!!!! If you Roll 2 or 3 units can infiltrate you could give Infiltrate to a character too attach Huron to the Termies of Kharn to the Berzerkers !!!

Or 5 Termies in their Dedicated transport land raider could infiltrate as it is conferred to dedicated transports !!!

Rovient
10-10-2012, 12:46
Never thought about a Sorcerer being able to cast Iron Arm on himself. Biomancy is new to us obviously. A nurgle sorcerer (which is what I'm working on next) could be T8! Powerfists wound him on a 4+?!

A nice combo available to chaos for the first time would be casting enfeeble on a multi-wound T4 unit such as paladins, Tyranid warriors or Tau Crisis suits, then firing on them with assault cannons from your Obliterators. Will instant death them at S6, with some being rending shots too.

Caitsidhe
10-10-2012, 14:19
Huron and Ahriman guarantee you get D3 infiltrating Infantry units from their traits - master of deception

How about 10 Infiltrating Terminators ? Or 20 Infiltrating Khorne Berzerkers!!!! If you Roll 2 or 3 units can infiltrate you could give Infiltrate to a character too attach Huron to the Termies of Kharn to the Berzerkers !!!

Or 5 Termies in their Dedicated transport land raider could infiltrate as it is conferred to dedicated transports !!!

What about it? :) The basic rulebook has made it impossible to assault when coming in from reserves. This makes coming in from reserves totally worthless for anything other than shooting units. Consider the following:

1. Coming in from reserve means you arrive on Turn-2 at the earliest and thus are assaulting (at the earliest again) on Turn-3. Half the game is gone.
2. Dedicated close combat units (or units which are primarily close combat) are losing between 1-2 Turns of effectiveness.
3. Outflank does not guarantee which side of the board you will come in and opponents can always place in a way to be as far from the sides as to negate benefit.

Where exactly is the advantage? :) If you start on the table you at least can place for maximum gain to reach any point on the opposing side with equal speed. In theory, if you are placed far enough forward (and your opponent likewise) a 1st Turn assault is at least "possible," and a 2nd Turn assault is pretty much certain. The sooner dedicated close combat troops reach hand to hand the better. The longer they wait the less return you get. You end up having to weather exactly the same number of Turns of shooting either way, so you might as well take your lumps early and get to grips with them.

*This isn't to say that coming from Reserve is worthless. It is great for special weapon SHOOTING teams that need to pop in range to clear parking lots or other annoying backfield configurations. They aren't bad for keeping SMALL (and thus vulnerable) scoring units off the board for a bit to hopefully jump the on to objectives (or dispute them) while the white heat is going on elsewhere. It works for hard scoring units too but such choices might as well be slogging it up the middle. The problem is that Games Workshop (in its normal lack of any wisdom or thought) removed most of the benefit of Outflank, Infiltrate, and so on. It seems to be their thought to give people a perk in name but remove the actual commonsense value. Let's take Infiltrate for example, you can choose to be placed far forward but in doing so you give up any ability to assault on your first turn (which is the reason most people would want it). It does not, however, remove their ability to assault your forward placed models. :)

PITBULL_101
10-10-2012, 14:25
What about it? :) The basic rulebook has made it impossible to assault when coming in from reserves. This makes coming in from reserves totally worthless for anything other than shooting units. Consider the following:

1. Coming in from reserve means you arrive on Turn-2 at the earliest and thus are assaulting (at the earliest again) on Turn-3. Half the game is gone.
2. Dedicated close combat units (or units which are primarily close combat) are losing between 1-2 Turns of effectiveness.
3. Outflank does not guarantee which side of the board you will come in and opponents can always place in a way to be as far from the sides as to negate benefit.

Where exactly is the advantage? :) If you start on the table you at least can place for maximum gain to reach any point on the opposing side with equal speed. In theory, if you are placed far enough forward (and your opponent likewise) a 1st Turn assault is at least "possible," and a 2nd Turn assault is pretty much certain. The sooner dedicated close combat troops reach hand to hand the better. The longer they wait the less return you get. You end up having to weather exactly the same number of Turns of shooting either way, so you might as well take your lumps early and get to grips with them.

*This isn't to say that coming from Reserve is worthless. It is great for special weapon SHOOTING teams that need to pop in range to clear parking lots or other annoying backfield configurations. They aren't bad for keeping SMALL (and thus vulnerable) scoring units off the board for a bit to hopefully jump the on to objectives (or dispute them) while the white heat is going on elsewhere. It works for hard scoring units too but such choices might as well be slogging it up the middle. The problem is that Games Workshop (in its normal lack of any wisdom or thought) removed most of the benefit of Outflank, Infiltrate, and so on. It seems to be their thought to give people a perk in name but remove the actual commonsense value. Let's take Infiltrate for example, you can choose to be placed far forward but in doing so you give up any ability to assault on your first turn (which is the reason most people would want it). It does not, however, remove their ability to assault your forward placed models. :)


Your completely missing the point :rolleyes:

The point is infiltrating (not reserveing or outflanking) 10 termies or 20 berzerkers... They get in combat in Turn 2......

My intention is to have 10 T5 Terminators & hopefully Huron walking Turn 1 whilst laying the shooting on then shooting and assaulting in Turn 2.....
(Possibly backed up by some allied Daemons Deepstriking in Turn 1 as back up/ distraction)

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 14:30
This makes coming in from reserves totally worthless for anything other than shooting units.


I would argue the opposite. You only shoot on your turn. Melee happens on both turns. So, the cost/benefit ratio depends on whether you would lose more models starting on the table than if you came in from reserves.

madden
10-10-2012, 14:31
Or give your op first turn and if lucky you assault them on your first turn. There's a lot of little tweaks in this dex opening up loads of different tactics. I'm going to enjoy playing out lots of different setups.

Caitsidhe
10-10-2012, 14:56
I would argue the opposite. You only shoot on your turn. Melee happens on both turns. So, the cost/benefit ratio depends on whether you would lose more models starting on the table than if you came in from reserves.

Again, please tell me how this applies to getting your units into combat as quickly or faster than simply starting on the board? I was a big proponent of starting as much of my CSM off the board at the end of 5th Edition as possible so I understand the potential value in not being there to be a target. The problem comes with the 6th Edition change in rules, however, and you end up getting pummeled prior to combat for the same number of turns prior to making it into close combat. There is not net gain. I used to stay off the board as long as I could to get certain key clearing units into place. I didn't want to get pounded by IG tanks and artillery for that first turn. I would place everything in reserve and have my three Chosen suicide squads come in at the same time as my troops, outflanking and destroying key vehicles. Now in 6th Edition you are forced to put things on the table which mitigates the value of this tactic. Put too little on the table and you LOSE when they blast it off. Put a middle amount out and they cripple it because they have nothing else to shoot at. Put everything except a few out and you are back to square one. :) It is a zero sum gain. Not being able to assault from reserves makes it further crazy to sit certain units out.

You have Terminators? Why the hell not put them on the board moving forward. They have a better chance of surviving than most things. There just aren't as many good reasons to use Outflank or Infiltrate as there used to be. This is coming from a person who made use of them as his PRIMARY tactic.

Chapters Unwritten
10-10-2012, 15:04
To be fair, 6E Chaos has the Dirge Caster, which, if used correctly in an ouflanking situation, could help minimalize that pounding.

Caitsidhe
10-10-2012, 15:08
Your completely missing the point :rolleyes:

The point is infiltrating (not reserveing or outflanking) 10 termies or 20 berzerkers... They get in combat in Turn 2......

My intention is to have 10 T5 Terminators & hopefully Huron walking Turn 1 whilst laying the shooting on then shooting and assaulting in Turn 2.....
(Possibly backed up by some allied Daemons Deepstriking in Turn 1 as back up/ distraction)

Hrm. I do not think Deathstar Terminators are the way to go with or without Infiltrate. Most of us honed our killing skills against these types of builds with Draigowing obscenities and got pretty darn good and destroying them. The Dragiowing is always going to be tougher than anything CSM can put down in this regard. Putting yourself closer with it doesn't assure you get into combat. It just assures that EVERYTHING your opponent has that can shoot will shoot. Dakka the likes of which only God has seen before. Then whatever is left will get charged. I, personally, get an almost sexual thrill when I see Terminator Deathstars go on the table opposed to me.

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 15:15
Again, please tell me how this applies to getting your units into combat as quickly or faster than simply starting on the board?


It doesn't. Deepstrike means you take one round of shooting and overwatch. Slogging it means at best you move, take shooting, move again, take more shooting, move/charge and take overwatch. Couple that with the chance that you can be shot out of charge range and the possibility you fail the charge. Deep strike puts you in near guaranteed charge range the next turn.

Terminators don't do so well against DE.

Caitsidhe
10-10-2012, 15:23
It doesn't. Deepstrike means you take one round of shooting and overwatch. Slogging it means at best you move, take shooting, move again, take more shooting, move/charge and take overwatch. Couple that with the chance that you can be shot out of charge range and the possibility you fail the charge. Deep strike puts you in near guaranteed charge range the next turn.

Terminators don't do so well against DE.

Fair enough. Terminators can already Deepstrike anyway, however, so the Warlord trait which allows D3 Infantry units to Infiltrate or Outflank is kind of a different subject. My comments were on the value of seeing that trait as some awesome perk. It isn't. It provides options but isn't changing that much because the pulled all the teeth from it. Like yourself, I use Terminators as pop down disruption and vehicle clearing with HOPES that they will survive a round to assault. It remains something of a mixed bag because while Terminators got more durable with the decline in AP-2 close combat weaponry, there has been no reduction (an increase I think) in DAKKA. I still don't see myself (as a CSM player) using Terminators in great numbers. CSM still gets a better return on volume of fire, special characters, and dirty tricks. It could be that I have become so good at killing Terminators (through endless practice against GK) that I just consider them rather dangerous to put out there. :D My SC usually have Terminator Armor. That is about it.

Adra
10-10-2012, 16:02
More Positives!

Bikes are pretty good.....Yay!!!!

Marks cant be blown off an entire unit because one guy dies....WooHoo!!!!

Lords and Socerers are cheap AND good....Amazing!!!!

Havocs have access to anti air (its expensive but still).....Great!!!!

NEW THINGS (even if you dont like the models, new is still new).......Ace!!!!

Fast Attack has some good options.....Fast!!!!

Zombies.....Eeek!!!

Kharn hits at I now......Boosh!!!!

Noise Marines are way better.....Groin!!!!

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 16:03
I will likely be using Ahriman and putting TS squads 18" out. I care little for outflank. Termies will be MSU tarpitters for me - 3 termies, 2 pairs of LC, melta or plasma on champ, MoT for 131.

Rovient
10-10-2012, 17:30
People have mentioned infiltrating D3 units of nastiness and others have said no point doing so since you're 18" away. However, when infiltrating a unit which is LOS of your enemy you can be within 12", which means while you might not be assaulting your opponent on the first turn due to that restriction, you are able to move up and guarantee you'll be assaulting on turn 2! Your opponent has the same restrictions as you, so won't be able to assault you on their first turn either. Best they can hope for is to shoot your nasty unit to pieces first?

Best part? There's no randomness involved. Both deep strike and outflank rarely go the way you want them to when you need them to. My biggest rule is avoid rolling dice unless you have to!

New Dark apostle thought;

A 20 man unit of CSM can be given a VotLW for 1pt per model. They can also be given an Icon of Vengeance for just under the price of 2 extra marines. Due to the prevalence of Loyalist SM armies and the risk of being sweeping advanced, these two options seem prudent to me.

This equates to:
Hatred: Space marines only(50% of armies), +1Ld, +1 combat resolution and Fearless for the unit.

Placing a Dark Apostle in that same unit equates to:
Hatred: Everything (100% of armies), +1Ld (because he's 10), Fearless for the unit but no +1 on combat resolution

However, if you take away the cost of the icon, VotLW and the price of a regular CSM with a power weapon (and ignore his WS5 and W2) from the cost of the Apostle, you're left with a HQ who's just over 30 points and also:
Boosts the Ld rolls of nearby units, comes with a 4++ save, can re-roll Boon of Chaos rolls and allow the aspiring champion to do the same and finally is a pretty good fighter who can't be sniped out of the unit like the Icon bearer can (well he can, but you can LOS on a 2+).

Pretty amazing value I'd say!

Kevlar
10-10-2012, 17:35
People have mentioned infiltrating D3 units of nastiness and others have said no point doing so since you're 18" away. However, when infiltrating a unit which is LOS of your enemy you can be within 12", which means while you might not be assaulting your opponent on the first turn due to that restriction, you are able to move up and guarantee you'll be assaulting on turn 2! Your opponent has the same restrictions as you, so won't be able to assault you on their first turn either. Best they can hope for is to shoot your nasty unit to pieces first?

Best part? There's no randomness involved. Both deep strike and outflank rarely go the way you want them to when you need them to. My biggest rule is avoid rolling dice unless you have to!


You can assault turn one if you are player 2.

Rovient
10-10-2012, 17:39
You can assault turn one if you are player 2.

Oh. Balls.

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 17:42
A 20 man unit of CSM can be given a VotLW for 1pt per model. They can also be given an Icon of Vengeance for just under the price of 2 extra marines. Due to the prevalence of Loyalist SM armies and the risk of being sweeping advanced, these two options seem prudent to me.

I *want* my cultists to flee and die horribly. Since there is no consolidation into new units it sets me up to rapid fire with thousand sons and then charge. Certainly some armies might see use for them in that fashion though.

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 17:45
You can assault turn one if you are player 2.

Yea that is why I would sit 18" out and out of LOS if possible. It establishes some area control and gives me a springboard.

TheDungen
10-10-2012, 19:06
i just saw this wonderful imagine in my head a chaos lord throwing cultists on a loyalist space marine squad and then while they're held in place bombard the close combat with ordnance... i want to be able to do that, Life is cheap rules for cultists!

Bonzai
10-10-2012, 19:31
Hmm... This thread kind of gives me an idea. If I take Arhimane in my 1k Sons list, that means I could infiltrate a d3 of my Vindicators? Mwuhahahaha!

Khorneguy
10-10-2012, 19:44
Hmm... This thread kind of gives me an idea. If I take Arhimane in my 1k Sons list, that means I could infiltrate a d3 of my Vindicators? Mwuhahahaha!

That is truly evil my friend. I may use your idea, seeing as at the moment my vindicators die without getting in range

Daedalus81
10-10-2012, 19:47
Hmm... This thread kind of gives me an idea. If I take Arhimane in my 1k Sons list, that means I could infiltrate a d3 of my Vindicators? Mwuhahahaha!

No - infantry units only.

Snipernine
10-10-2012, 21:03
A havoc squad with mark of kharne and ccw is a nasty hth unit. Give them 4 flamers and the icon of wrath to make them the bane to any assualt unit.
I know people don't like possessed but I see them winning a lot combats as every random result is great.
Raptors are cheap
Bikes are cheap
Hellbrute does not shoot your own units anymore
Sorcerer got a huge buff

Fagerlund
10-10-2012, 21:24
Steed of Slaanesh grants Outflanking with Acute Senses. Attach the character to a unit of bikes and you have two special weapons killing something vulnerable for sure.

You can basically make Berzerkers with Jump packs or Bikes for almost the same price as regular Berzerkers (and that's not counting their almost mandatory Rhino).

On the same note, you can take a unit of 15 Raptors. I believe this is a larger squad than any Loyalist army can take of Jump Infantry.

Juggernaughts makes Khorne Lords extremely hard, with +1S +1T and +1W! Since they always have to challenge you'll be in a pretty nice spot against most things.

Obliterators got even more weapons. <3

A.T.
10-10-2012, 21:46
Juggernaughts makes Khorne Lords extremely hard, with +1S +1T and +1W! Since they always have to challenge you'll be in a pretty nice spot against most things.Juggerlords are where the fury axe belong - starting at a mere 145pts you've got a cavalry unit with up to 13 S6 AP2 I5 attacks on the charge.
(it's +1T, +1W, +1A - not strength)

bad dice
10-10-2012, 22:22
No - infantry units only.


You can still cheat whit it a bit tough

Say you rol 2 you can pick one of your IC that is also infantry
Then let him join a unit so that unit can also infiltrate (since infiltrate does not go from unit to IC but it does go from IC to units oddly enough) And thus end up infiltrate 3 units as it where.

zendral
10-10-2012, 23:05
1. For the first time a disc of Tzeentch grants +1 toughness for being a jetbike. Toughness 5 sorceror.

2. Love the re-roll to psy tests using familiar.

3. Lucius is much better. It's amazing what a few tweeks can do.

4. Predator tank got cheaper. Load it up with autocannon, bolters, havoc, and warplame and get a nice cheap infantry killer.

Minsc
10-10-2012, 23:51
I would love idéas on where to put my Tzeentch Sorc/Lord on Disc.
I noticed earlier that you can only put MoTz-IC's in a unit with the same mark (or unmarked).
MoTz on most units (specificly Raptors, Bikes and Spawns due to the 12" speed) is not only expensive but also a complete waste of points.
I realize that I could simply put the Disc-HQ in a unit of unmarked spawns/raptors/bikes, but that feels like waste of potential just to give the IC somewhere to be.

Anyone got any idéas?

Daedalus81
11-10-2012, 01:57
I would love idéas on where to put my Tzeentch Sorc/Lord on Disc.
I noticed earlier that you can only put MoTz-IC's in a unit with the same mark (or unmarked).
MoTz on most units (specificly Raptors, Bikes and Spawns due to the 12" speed) is not only expensive but also a complete waste of points.
I realize that I could simply put the Disc-HQ in a unit of unmarked spawns/raptors/bikes, but that feels like waste of potential just to give the IC somewhere to be.

Anyone got any idéas?

Warp talons. He'll confer frags to the unit when charging.

Actually scratch that since I think its a per model basis. I'd do talons if I decide not to keep him solo anyway.

Squallish
11-10-2012, 11:32
I would love idéas on where to put my Tzeentch Sorc/Lord on Disc.
I noticed earlier that you can only put MoTz-IC's in a unit with the same mark (or unmarked).
MoTz on most units (specificly Raptors, Bikes and Spawns due to the 12" speed) is not only expensive but also a complete waste of points.
I realize that I could simply put the Disc-HQ in a unit of unmarked spawns/raptors/bikes, but that feels like waste of potential just to give the IC somewhere to be.

Anyone got any idéas?

I'll be putting mine into a unit of allied Screamers or a unit of Chaos Spawn for their similar movement types and targets.

Daedalus81
11-10-2012, 12:56
I'll be putting mine into a unit of allied Screamers or a unit of Chaos Spawn for their similar movement types and targets.

Oh yea - screamers is a good idea - im actually using a screamer for my disk. (Yes, discs are warped screamers, I know).

Nonalyth
11-10-2012, 14:07
You can strap 2 combi-boters, a combi-weapon, and a havoc launcher to a rhino. Or give a defiler a pair of Havoc Launchers and blow hordes to pieces.

Rovient
11-10-2012, 14:14
I'll be putting mine into a unit of allied Screamers or a unit of Chaos Spawn for their similar movement types and targets. Can you attach a CSM HQ IC to a Daemons unit? If so, that's where my Dark Apostle will be going! 10 Bloodletters with hatred!?

Minsc
11-10-2012, 14:29
Can you attach a CSM HQ IC to a Daemons unit? If so, that's where my Dark Apostle will be going! 10 Bloodletters with hatred!?

Afaik an IC can join a detatchment-unit if they're Battle Brothers, which CSM and Daemons are.
I'll probably end up putting my Disc-HQ in a unit of Screamers as well, it just sucks that we have to take a unit from a different codex in order for us to have a decent unit for him to join.

Daedalus81
11-10-2012, 14:39
Afaik an IC can join a detatchment-unit if they're Battle Brothers, which CSM and Daemons are.
I'll probably end up putting my Disc-HQ in a unit of Screamers as well, it just sucks that we have to take a unit from a different codex in order for us to have a decent unit for him to join.

We have decent options, but yea screamers fits the bill the best. I'm just have a really hard time finding the space for allies right now.

Squallish
11-10-2012, 16:13
A Herald, 5 Horrors, Bolt + Changeling, 9 Screamers is only 375 pts and quite a fluffy addition to a Thousand Son army. Add Flamers if you like.

Daedalus81
11-10-2012, 16:36
A Herald, 5 Horrors, Bolt + Changeling, 9 Screamers is only 375 pts and quite a fluffy addition to a Thousand Son army. Add Flamers if you like.

Oh no doubt - and that is what makes me not care about legion rules. I'll still have a hard time fitting that in, because I just want to take everything! D:

Squallish
11-10-2012, 16:41
I'm building some Maulerfiend conversions from the Necrosphinx kit and will run something like this:
CSM: Lvl 3 Sorc, 2 x 9 Sons in Rhinos, Helbrute, 2 Mauler fiends, Defiler
Allies: Chariot Herald, 9 Horrors + Bolt + Changeling, 9 Screamers

Ahra Returns
11-10-2012, 16:59
I don't really like what you are trying to do with the tread title, its rotten, but I will roll with it. This was pointed out in the tactica thread. The Demon weapon that is a Mace, is AP2 when wielded by a Demon Prince. Bad news for multi wound units.

Bad news for everyone! My Prince took out Mephiston and a unit of Termies yesterday - killing meph before he could even attack.

5+D6 AP2 attacks at I8 WS9 Re-rolling vs Marines and always wound on 2's? Yes. Please.

Another little win is that you can give the Prince a Gift of Mutation. You can't turn into a spawn or Dark Apothesis, but you can get multiple boons.

I wound up with a 2+ save and T6 yesterday :D - combined with Daemon of Tzeentch for re-rolling 1's on your saves... pretty sweet.

Edit: Also Helldrakes. Much better than I thought they were going to be on the table top, MUCH. Can't get enough of that Baleflamer goodness, especially as all the loyalists round here seem to have forgotten their transports *evil grin*

Charistoph
11-10-2012, 17:07
On the same note, you can take a unit of 15 Raptors. I believe this is a larger squad than any Loyalist army can take of Jump Infantry.

Sky Claws? And you used to be able to field 20 Raptors. They did get cheaper and gain Fear, though.



Obliterators got even more weapons. <3

But can't use them turn after turn. A slight discount to price (which usually goes to a Nurgle ot Tzeentch Mark for defense).

thanoson
11-10-2012, 17:23
I would think infiltrating D3 Zombie hordes of 35 each (when the FAQ comes out) would be pretty awesome.

Caitsidhe
11-10-2012, 20:24
I would think infiltrating D3 Zombie hordes of 35 each (when the FAQ comes out) would be pretty awesome.

It might be. It might not be. I have actually field tested maximum blobs of Zombies and they don't tarpit near as well as you would think. And remotely decent close combat unit eat through them quickly enough. Of course the point these days is to tarpit the shooting units (those are the real power these days) and shoot the close combat.

Minsc
11-10-2012, 20:46
It might be. It might not be. I have actually field tested maximum blobs of Zombies and they don't tarpit near as well as you would think. And remotely decent close combat unit eat through them quickly enough. Of course the point these days is to tarpit the shooting units (those are the real power these days) and shoot the close combat.

Like you said, you don't use zombies to tarpit closecombat unit, you use them to tarpit shooty units. ;)
It will take a squad of Devastators an entire game to munch trough a unit of 30 zombies (they will kill at average 3 zombies / combat turn).

loveless
11-10-2012, 21:02
But can't use them turn after turn. A slight discount to price (which usually goes to a Nurgle ot Tzeentch Mark for defense).

Which, I'll argue, is fitting for an Obliterator. This little rule better represents the shifting nature of their damnable existence - they're always changing and mutating. They feel like a unit consistently in the process of alteration as opposed to just Terminators with the Swiss Army Knife of Heavy Weapons (tm).

Caitsidhe
11-10-2012, 21:31
With Obliterators it is better to Nurgle mark them to reduce general DAKKA saves and just sit them in terrain giving them a 4+ or 3+ to start with. However, all that being said, I see Obliterators losing a lot of their importance as allies increase. What they provide can be provided at a better cost and in more reliable ways by Traitor Guard and/or Dark Eldar.

Charistoph
11-10-2012, 23:09
Or the Defiler, Havoks, or Forgefiend?

MvS
12-10-2012, 09:21
This thread is slowly slipping away from being about what we think the various 'wins' of the new Codex are, stylistically and in terms of the rules, and is risking becoming just another "what's rubbish and what's usable" debating thread.

I know there's a cross over between explaining to someone who doesn't necessarily agree why we think something is excellent and actually debating pros and cons of each unit in detail, this isn't really the best thread for the latter I think. There are several other threads already doing just this.

Valorel
12-10-2012, 09:36
The wins are pretty obvious I think
- ML3 sorcerors quite affordable
- 3++ and 4++ possible for the characters
- CSM as troops even more flexible than before through marks/icons/VotLW/swapping or buying CCW
- marks on squads, opposed to the old icon system, meaning you don't loose what you bought after 1 unlucky casualty.
- FA is at last an excellent FOC slot, with bikers and rators being cheaper (MUCH cheaper for bikers)
- cultists, providing ultra-cheap troops, which you can custom with marks, auto gun, or leave them ultra cheap
- most choices in every FOC slot are viable without killing your list, though some won't be used in tourney (mutilators, Tsons, possessed, maybe warp talons and spawns)
- a lot of possibilities for every slot (even troops, via the lord and the marks, which can completly change the role of CSM)
- I'm not sure there is currently another codex which offers as much choices in every slot, with the exception of troops. More elites, FA, HQ and HS than you can dream of, offering a big variety of armies (some won't be as competitive as others, but it's the same for EVERY codex!)

I can't understand how people can say it's a minor improvement from the 4th. I can totally understand some are disappointed, and that the codex is not what they expected, but not seeing how much it's better than 4th makes me think some let their feeling blind their judgement. far from perfect, and from a TS ever-lover, I see what is missing in this codex, but that doesn't mean it's a bad one!

All this is IMHO of course, no offense intended to the codex-haters.

Chaospling
12-10-2012, 12:00
A guy wrote "Noise Marines are better". Was that sarcasm? I can't see how they're better than before. Before they could charge after shooting their sonic weapons, and before both their 2/3 shots were at maximum range. Yes now the Sonic Blaster (?) ignores cover, but I don't think that makes them better overall.

Daedalus81
12-10-2012, 12:44
A guy wrote "Noise Marines are better". Was that sarcasm? I can't see how they're better than before. Before they could charge after shooting their sonic weapons, and before both their 2/3 shots were at maximum range. Yes now the Sonic Blaster (?) ignores cover, but I don't think that makes them better overall.

They got access to FNP. They don't need to take sonic weapons, which lets them take advantage of I5. Their sonic units are vastly cheaper. The sonic blaster ignores cover, too.

Daedalus81
12-10-2012, 12:46
Force weapons aside - a nurgle lord on palanquin with sigil requires 24 powerfist attacks to die.

Kevlar
12-10-2012, 14:28
A guy wrote "Noise Marines are better". Was that sarcasm? I can't see how they're better than before. Before they could charge after shooting their sonic weapons, and before both their 2/3 shots were at maximum range. Yes now the Sonic Blaster (?) ignores cover, but I don't think that makes them better overall.

If it wasn't for the epidemus allied cheese list I think mark of slaanesh marines would be the strongest cult. Always strike first in close combat, and icon of excess for feel no pain makes them pretty great. Their regular troops are okay, and their assault terminators and bikers are off the chart.

Noise marines I still don't like though. Salvo weapons ruin them. They should have been like psycannons, heavy 4 and assault 2.

Nurgling Chieftain
12-10-2012, 14:53
Invisible Chaos Bikers rock.

Harwammer
12-10-2012, 15:01
Icons effect similarly marked characters in the units too, right?

Kevlar
12-10-2012, 15:04
Icons effect similarly marked characters in the units too, right?

Yes, you can give Abaddon feel no pain in a unit of slaaneshi terminators.

Caitsidhe
12-10-2012, 19:22
Yes, you can give Abaddon feel no pain in a unit of slaaneshi terminators.

Which is a hilarious boost.

sayles78
12-10-2012, 20:17
Force weapons aside - a nurgle lord on palanquin with sigil requires 24 powerfist attacks to die.

Jesus H. Christ!

Like you said, a bloody force weapon might sting a bit though.

Rovient
12-10-2012, 20:25
Yes, you can give Abaddon feel no pain in a unit of slaaneshi terminators.

Amazing! That is one sneaky little boost. What about furious charge re-rolling charge distances? Nah, not as good as T5, 2+/4++ and 5+ FnP!

Kevlar
12-10-2012, 20:33
Amazing! That is one sneaky little boost. What about furious charge re-rolling charge distances? Nah, not as good as T5, 2+/4++ and 5+ FnP!

I am actually probably going to run Abaddon in a unit of 8 slaaneshi chosen in a land raider with icon of excess. That way the whole unit is scoring too!

Still Standing
12-10-2012, 20:54
Dakka the likes of which only God has seen before.

Deserves a +1 :)

althathir
13-10-2012, 05:25
I would love idéas on where to put my Tzeentch Sorc/Lord on Disc.
I noticed earlier that you can only put MoTz-IC's in a unit with the same mark (or unmarked).
MoTz on most units (specificly Raptors, Bikes and Spawns due to the 12" speed) is not only expensive but also a complete waste of points.
I realize that I could simply put the Disc-HQ in a unit of unmarked spawns/raptors/bikes, but that feels like waste of potential just to give the IC somewhere to be.

Anyone got any idéas?

Bikes are cheap/good enough that no mark really isn't really that big of deal, and he'd keep pace with them.


Sky Claws? And you used to be able to field 20 Raptors. They did get cheaper and gain Fear, though.



But can't use them turn after turn. A slight discount to price (which usually goes to a Nurgle ot Tzeentch Mark for defense).

Skyclaws are capped at 10, Russ liked to fight with his feet on the ground ;)

Obilts are pretty good and have enough options that not being able to use the same gun twice isn't too big of deal (plus mark of nurgle is really good for them)

Aryllon
13-10-2012, 18:00
I quite like 5x special weapon chosen squad. Works many ways. Especially if you fancy fun units rather than competitive.

E.g. Lay down 5 flamer templates, then charge in with 25 S5 attacks (not including champion weapon options).
Or take Abaddon, and have 6 squads of 5x plasma troops (gets rather hot but 3+ armour helps).

sonsoftherock
13-10-2012, 20:13
Huron and Ahriman guarantee you get D3 infiltrating Infantry units from their traits - master of deception

How about 10 Infiltrating Terminators ? Or 20 Infiltrating Khorne Berzerkers!!!! If you Roll 2 or 3 units can infiltrate you could give Infiltrate to a character too attach Huron to the Termies of Kharn to the Berzerkers !!!

Or 5 Termies in their Dedicated transport land raider could infiltrate as it is conferred to dedicated transports !!!

I famously played a game with the 3.5 codex using infiltrating berzerkers, was having a fun time till a mate came along and said "you realise that's illegal right?" so i asked him where it said you couldn't infiltrate berzerkers and he pointed to the line in their unit entry that said exactly that!

Now I claim a moral victory, I wasn't cheating. Just years ahead of myself, a visionary even...

That's another list I'm going to have to write.

In terms of the codex my small win is that Lash of Slaanesh is gone. That power was the first thing to stop me playing the last codex, after that the fact that I couldn't seem to make a list I liked out of it killed it for me.

This one has me excited, I particularly like the Veterans of the Long War rule, just for the name.

Nurgling Chieftain
14-10-2012, 01:07
I famously played a game with the 3.5 codex ... so i asked him where it said you couldn't infiltrate berzerkers and he pointed to the line in their unit entry that said exactly that!The 3.5 codex had some issues, one of which was the fine game of "find the rule".

SideshowLucifer
14-10-2012, 04:14
I'm rather a fan of the new spawn myself. I think an army of spawn and possessed would be a lot of fun as a main force, whether its competitive or not.

Kevlar
14-10-2012, 04:23
I'm rather a fan of the new spawn myself. I think an army of spawn and possessed would be a lot of fun as a main force, whether its competitive or not.

Spawn seem decent but I'm not sure possessed got any better. The chart is a little better for them, but they still have no way to affect vehicles and are rather expensive for what they do. They have the same problem as warp talons. Too specialized for their own good.

Ssilmath
14-10-2012, 06:46
A mass of Str 5 attacks should have no problem glancing any vehicle short of a Land Raider to death. Dreadnoughts is a different matter, of course. And even then, with the Mark and Icon of Khorne or a good couple rolls on the boon chart, your Possessed could still make their way through that combat. That is also assuming that you don't have any powerfists or chainfists running around near the Possessed. Or that you were unable to destroy the Dreadnought before hand. Or that you couldn't keep them away...

Valorel
14-10-2012, 10:31
Another BIG win in the new codex: Warp spawn are now more than playable. 5 MoN spawns are loooooong to kill, and will keep any assault unit busy for several turns. And if you are lucky, they may even make some kills. Wasn't convinced by them at all until I tried them, and I must say I'll field a unit of 5 in a lot of my games!

On the other hand, possessed are as bad as ever, and are still not worth fielding unless you play a fun game with a good friend. I think they are the worst unit of the codex.
Or maybe not, it may be mutilators, who totally lack the assault power to justify their cost. Yes, they are resilient, and having power weapon every turn is cool. But they are not killy enough to be good, and are really easy to be kept stuck for several turn, as they won't kill a 10 marine squad fast enough to do much more in a game...

Possessed and mutilators won't be in any of my lists this edition, unless they are modified in any way. I think 20-22 points for possessed and 45 for mutilators MIGHT make them playable (or +1 Attacks)

Latro_
14-10-2012, 11:12
Played a small for fun 500pts game on my mates zone mortalis board last night checkit!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d120/latro/IMAG1084_zps786a82d4.jpg

anyhoo the boon table is a must i think its simply hilarious and fun. His lord turned into a daemon prince but in doing so took him out of combat so he got shot at and then a cave in (spec rule) killed him outright hah and then later my lord turned into a spawn! and lucky for him because of that another strengh test later he passed since he was s5 now owing to spawness.

Funny thing wsa he took 2 wounds from a TS sorcerer eariler so its like poetic some weird tzeentch mutation cursed him!

Boon table defo a big win, one of the most memorable games of 40k i'v played in a long time.

Wyrmwood
14-10-2012, 11:34
Sticking some Destroyer Blades onto a daemonically possessed Land Raider, tank shocking a squad of hapless Guardsmen and then unleashing some Khorne Berzerkers that can charge on the turn they assault thanks to the Raider being an assault vehicle. :D

ihavetoomuchminis
14-10-2012, 12:26
The HUGE amount of plasma rifles you can fit in a CSM army. 5 for chosen....4 for anihilators, 2 for each 5 raptors....2 for each 3 bikes.....2 for each 10 man CSM squad....2 for each 5 man Plague marines squad.....

And if you don't like plasma...... then use melta, or flamers.....whatever you like the most.

Minsc
14-10-2012, 12:39
4 for anihilators

What are theese?

ihavetoomuchminis
14-10-2012, 12:42
What are theese?

lapsus...i mean HAVOCS :P

Kevlar
14-10-2012, 15:44
The HUGE amount of plasma rifles you can fit in a CSM army. 5 for chosen....4 for anihilators, 2 for each 5 raptors....2 for each 3 bikes.....2 for each 10 man CSM squad....2 for each 5 man Plague marines squad.....

And if you don't like plasma...... then use melta, or flamers.....whatever you like the most.

What is a unit of chosen with plasma rifles going to do to a leman russ? What is a leman russ going to do to that unit of chosen? (Who cost darn near 40 points per model).



A mass of Str 5 attacks should have no problem glancing any vehicle short of a Land Raider to death.

So you assault that rhino and glance it to death because you have no shooting weapons. Then the squad inside disembarks and rapid fires you to death. You just traded 200 points for 35 points. Doesn't seem like that makes much sense.

shakedown47
14-10-2012, 16:07
What is a unit of chosen with plasma rifles going to do to a leman russ? What is a leman russ going to do to that unit of chosen? (Who cost darn near 40 points per model).




So you assault that rhino and glance it to death because you have no shooting weapons. Then the squad inside disembarks and rapid fires you to death. You just traded 200 points for 35 points. Doesn't seem like that makes much sense.

Are you sure those are the specific examples they were thinking of? Don't you think, just maybe, they were both talking about the literally dozens of vehicles in the game that those respective units would have a decent shot at dealing with? Why be a dick about it? I don't understand.

Minsc
14-10-2012, 16:16
What is a unit of chosen with plasma rifles going to do to a leman russ? What is a leman russ going to do to that unit of chosen? (Who cost darn near 40 points per model).

They charge it with their Krak-grenades? :)

Kevlar
14-10-2012, 16:32
Are you sure those are the specific examples they were thinking of? Don't you think, just maybe, they were both talking about the literally dozens of vehicles in the game that those respective units would have a decent shot at dealing with? Why be a dick about it? I don't understand.

I'm not trying to be a dick. Plasma chosen are decent anti-meq, but very, very expensive. You could load out with 3x infiltrating plasma chosen in the last book, but competitively no one did. They haven't gotten any better, or cheaper, and they lost infiltrate. They also won't be scoring without Abaddon, who is another big point investment.

Possessed are a terrible unit because they have no possible way to 1. pop a transport, and 2. assault its contents. They need the help of an additional unit, and are very very expensive all by themselves. A unit of CSM with 2x melta and MOK/IOK is going to be able to do more and do it cheaper. Not to mention that they are troops and scoring.

Daedalus81
14-10-2012, 17:43
Possessed are a terrible unit because they have no possible way to 1. pop a transport, and 2. assault its contents. They need the help of an additional unit, and are very very expensive all by themselves. A unit of CSM with 2x melta and MOK/IOK is going to be able to do more and do it cheaper. Not to mention that they are troops and scoring.

So what if they need help to pop the transport? We're not playing a game where the units are insular.

200 for the squad you mentioned. 7 possessed with MoS comes in at 203. Possessed either come out with a huge win or a slight loss (if CSM charge), but are fearless.

Kevlar
14-10-2012, 17:58
So what if they need help to pop the transport? We're not playing a game where the units are insular.

200 for the squad you mentioned. 7 possessed with MoS comes in at 203. Possessed either come out with a huge win or a slight loss (if CSM charge), but are fearless.

You don't see a problem with a 200 point unit that needs probably another 200 point unit to help it do what a different 200 point unit can do all on its own? The problem is a regular CSM squad can handle taking out a transport and its occupants all by itself. This frees up your heavy squad to shoot something else. Being a little more efficient in close combat doesn't make up for the fact that they can't pop a transport and assault its contents, which is a pretty common thing to do.

Minsc
14-10-2012, 18:33
You don't see a problem with a 200 point unit that needs probably another 200 point unit to help it do what a different 200 point unit can do all on its own? The problem is a regular CSM squad can handle taking out a transport and its occupants all by itself. This frees up your heavy squad to shoot something else. Being a little more efficient in close combat doesn't make up for the fact that they can't pop a transport and assault its contents, which is a pretty common thing to do.

Good thing the Possessed isn't the only unit in your list then?
I see what you're getting at Kevlar, but that's a bad way to determine a unit's worth. Possessed are a mediocre choice yes, but not for that particular reason.

Aryllon
14-10-2012, 19:43
So you assault that rhino and glance it to death because you have no shooting weapons. Then the squad inside disembarks and rapid fires you to death. You just traded 200 points for 35 points. Doesn't seem like that makes much sense.

That makes sense, because every army has 35pt transports containing 10 Space Marines :angel:

It's still win that you can take a game legal force of just Abaddon & 30 plasma gun chosen. That's just awesome :)

White_13oy
14-10-2012, 20:39
Chosen champions are free. I found that intreguing.

Kevlar
14-10-2012, 22:00
Chosen champions are free. I found that intreguing.

Its because they are all champs. That is what chosen are, a unit of champions. Its also why all their close combat weapon options cost an obscene amount of points.

Daedalus81
14-10-2012, 22:05
You don't see a problem with a 200 point unit that needs probably another 200 point unit to help it do what a different 200 point unit can do all on its own? The problem is a regular CSM squad can handle taking out a transport and its occupants all by itself. This frees up your heavy squad to shoot something else. Being a little more efficient in close combat doesn't make up for the fact that they can't pop a transport and assault its contents, which is a pretty common thing to do.

One unit can take a couple pot shots at a vehicle and fight in combat very effectively. The other fights in combat even more effectively when not marked khorne. I'm really not worried about some piddly meltas when I can pre-measure - unless you want to snapshot only you'll never get within 6".

Daedalus81
14-10-2012, 22:06
Chosen champions are free. I found that intreguing.

Termie champ is 1 point, also. Its because the champs for those units don't have any extra stats.

alextroy
14-10-2012, 22:57
Sticking some Destroyer Blades onto a daemonically possessed Land Raider, tank shocking a squad of hapless Guardsmen and then unleashing some Khorne Berzerkers that can charge on the turn they assault thanks to the Raider being an assault vehicle. :D

Unfortunately, you can't disembark from a Tranport that has Tank Shocked that turn (pg 79) :(

Charistoph
14-10-2012, 23:14
Termie champ is 1 point, also. Its because the champs for those units don't have any extra stats.

Just 2 Special Rules... Character and Champion of Chaos.

SideshowLucifer
15-10-2012, 04:32
I'm a fan of the possessed myself, just because they are unqiue. Sure, if you have another dedicated assault squad, you likely don't want possessed. However, they make a pretty good dedicated assault squad on their own. I also don't see many transports state-wide here anymore, so I don't really need to pop a transport to get to troops.

OgreBattle
15-10-2012, 08:15
Termie champ is 1 point, also. Its because the champs for those units don't have any extra stats.

very strange, Kelly's Dark Eldar Trueborn (basically a squad of 'sgt' types) have an a3 champion. It would've been cool to have a 'hero' lead your Elite squad.

Minsc
15-10-2012, 09:19
I just noticed that the Defilers Heavy Flamer is now twinlinked. Suddenly it's slightly less overpriced. :p

Hashulaman
15-10-2012, 09:38
Read up on this thread for the first time in a while. That thing about abbadon and FNP, would that work with Lucious as well? He would get FnP if in a Slannesi unit with Icon of excess?

Minsc
15-10-2012, 09:56
Read up on this thread for the first time in a while. That thing about abbadon and FNP, would that work with Lucious as well? He would get FnP if in a Slannesi unit with Icon of excess?

Does he have the Mark of Slaanesh? If so, then yes.

EvilFuzzyDoom
15-10-2012, 10:11
I am actually probably going to run Abaddon in a unit of 8 slaaneshi chosen in a land raider with icon of excess. That way the whole unit is scoring too!

I have never wanted to run Abaddon more than I do right now. :eek:

Fagerlund
15-10-2012, 10:24
One unit can take a couple pot shots at a vehicle and fight in combat very effectively. The other fights in combat even more effectively when not marked khorne. I'm really not worried about some piddly meltas when I can pre-measure - unless you want to snapshot only you'll never get within 6".

You do realise that meltas are Assault weapons, right?

Daedalus81
15-10-2012, 12:33
You do realise that meltas are Assault weapons, right?

Yes, but I think you're missing what I said... And you need to be within 6" to get the melta rule. With pre-measuring I can guarantee you don't get within that range unless you want to go cruising speed and take snap shots at me.

EvilFuzzyDoom
15-10-2012, 12:55
Yes, but I think you're missing what I said... And you need to be within 6" to get the melta rule. With pre-measuring I can guarantee you don't get within that range unless you want to go cruising speed and take snap shots at me.

From within the rhino still, right? Is that what you mean?

Daedalus81
15-10-2012, 13:09
From within the rhino still, right? Is that what you mean?

Including disembark range. Its fairly moot, I think. Meltas are better than plasma for killing vehicles, but on most everything else they operate the same and I can reasonably keep myself at range if I need to. I don't fear a unit simply because they have a couple plasma pistols - why would it be different if they had a couple meltas? The main purpose of that unit is CC. For it to buzz around trying to kill vehicles seems senseless.

Kevlar
15-10-2012, 14:02
Including disembark range. Its fairly moot, I think. Meltas are better than plasma for killing vehicles, but on most everything else they operate the same and I can reasonably keep myself at range if I need to. I don't fear a unit simply because they have a couple plasma pistols - why would it be different if they had a couple meltas? The main purpose of that unit is CC. For it to buzz around trying to kill vehicles seems senseless.

The amount of things S8 can ID is much larger than what S7 can ID. Plus meltas are much cheaper.

Minsc
15-10-2012, 14:06
The amount of things S8 can ID is much larger than what S7 can ID. Plus meltas are much cheaper.

And won't melt (pun intended) your own face.

Daedalus81
15-10-2012, 14:20
The amount of things S8 can ID is much larger than what S7 can ID. Plus meltas are much cheaper.

Well, i'm not arguing the benefits of melta over plasma unless you would lose your pistol for it. I find very few targets that I get to ID outside of combat (in normal play).

Kevlar
15-10-2012, 14:23
Well, i'm not arguing the benefits of melta over plasma unless you would lose your pistol for it. I find very few targets that I get to ID outside of combat (in normal play).

You've never shot at necron wraiths, paladins, tyranid warriors, nobs, or any marine characters? Not to mention even without the extra penetration just the ap1 and extra str are nice to have vs dreads and stuff. Much higher chance of a one shot kill.

Daedalus81
15-10-2012, 14:46
You've never shot at necron wraiths, paladins, tyranid warriors, nobs, or any marine characters? Not to mention even without the extra penetration just the ap1 and extra str are nice to have vs dreads and stuff. Much higher chance of a one shot kill.

I should clarify - I don't typically find myself within 12" of paladins or nobs. If I just dumped out of a rhino i'm more likely to get charged by them rather than the other way around. On average you can shoot and kill one and when they charge you have a small chance to catch another. Its a nice edge, but the odds that they will then mutilate me are decently high. Around here necrons are pretty rare and orks are getting there. GK isn't overwhelming, but they're still there.

Characters will be protected by LOS. Dreads I don't see popping up much these days.