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rayner66
13-10-2012, 13:29
Hi, below is my Tomb king army- have been reasonably sucessful with it but the club i go to isn't that competitive in fantasy, so any comments to help would be appreciated

High Liche Priest -lv4, Nefferra's Mighty incant 260 (light)
High Liche Priest -lv4, Power stone 230

4 Chariots 220
4 Chariots 220
28 Archers 168
40 Warriors (hand weapon, shield) 160
5 horse archers 80
5 horsemen 70

32 Tomb Guard (halberds w standard, Banner of undying legion) 476
Casket 135
total:2000



1 liche priest with the warriors and 1 with archers, obviously avaoiding combat if comes close- generall idea is to mass buff warriors, tomb gurad even archers- all deloyed in horde formation but can just reform esp for warriors to minimise casualties. Es using speed of light and briona's time warp on tomb guard.(so instead of buying king and necrotect just buffing to level, why need add magic items to maximise effect on that one needed turn.
Both chariot squads to punch hole in enemy formation to get behind or to flank charge/ annoy. Horsemen and horse archers either war machine hunting or charge bait/denying. Casket to do what it always does- scare them a bit!

Also own 2 tomb king/prince, herald, necrotect, 1 more liche priest, 10 more archers, 4 chariots 3 ushabti, 1 scorpion, 2 swarms, 5 horse archers

Thanks

Kalandros
13-10-2012, 13:38
I don't see the use of those Warriors honestly. They will bleed CR even to Night Goblins - but seeing your "models available" at the end, ... since you have no necro knights or stalkers, its a bit hard to do anything else.. x:

Those 40 warriors would be better as 40 archers - able to shoot the enemy and then get stuck in combat when they can't shoot anymore.

Kayosiv
14-10-2012, 09:37
I'm not so sure I feel like the second liche priest is better than a tomb king in that regard. The tomb kings buffs your unit 100% of the time. Although he may die, so might the wizard. The wizard must get teh spell you want, get enough power dice to cast it, be in range to cast it, successfully cast it, and have your opponent not dispel it. That's a lot of "ifs" when a tomb king or even 2 princes will always grant weaponskill 5 plus a little more combat punch. I wouldn't take two level 4's in a 2000 point game. That's 1/4 your army going into a phase that might only give you 2 dice.

Without a character to lead them, the warriors don't seem useful.

If you plan to keep the list, break up (and try to bulk up) the unit of archers into two units. your wizards have nowhere to go except that unit, and the last thing you want is for your opponent to have something fast be able to attack that unit and wipe 658 points off the board in one go. You don't really want them in the tomb guard or warriors because it seems like you want those things killing stuff.

rayner66
14-10-2012, 13:18
I think the problem with kings and princes I found is that you are buying them only for the buff. You also have to send heavily for them to not get chopped to pieces in combat against pretty much anything, and against most strong groups they will have at least the same WS as the prince who is much better price than the king is i feel.

Don't get me wrong i have tried the skels with a prince and the tomb guard with prince & necrotect, but found they only ever survived the first round, shirking away from any sort of challenge that i faced. It also doesn't give you the element of suprise to switch things, eg the skels & archers would be next to redundant, but a few quick spells can completely halt a charge, leaving for counter charges by the chariots.
The double 1 sindrome was a problem, but almost makes it easier most of the time. In that turn with list given can get up to 11 dice that turn without channelling, against 1 dispel dice. (ok 5 dice on one spell likely to miscast but just do boosted version of something)

Maybe i do need to slit up the archers though getting rid of skels?, for the splitting of the liches, respending the points from the warriors on more archers. Maybe i should try the king/prince route again as well then- what do you suggest to equip with? General magic armour/ ward or some other ways to keep them alive.
Also what do you use for magic- just the 1 lv 4, or many smaller ones?

Kayosiv
14-10-2012, 22:01
At toughness 5 and lots of wounds with respectable weaponskill, what the heck is killing your tomb kings and princes so easily?

I don't play tomb kings but I do play Vampire counts, and I've found that level 1's aren't worth taking (unless mortis engine is involved, so a group of level 1's that have a heriotitan to group around might be viable) and I go for a high level caster and a lower level caster, if not just a single level 4 but then try to spread out some bound spells to the rest of my army. You certainly have no shortage of bound spells, so a single level 4 seems totally reasonable. I often run a level 3 and a level 2 or just a level 3 and do perfectly fine. I was in a 12 man tournament yesterday with a single level 3 Vampire Lord and fought and won against an army with a level 4 life wizard, a level 4 life wizard and a beast wizard, and a level 4 grey seer. Their dominance of the magic phase was hardly absolute and the points I had saved on buying more magic levels or more wizards bought me enough of an army to win the tournament 3-0.

I definitively wouldn't use a necrotect in a unit of skeletons, but in grave guard it could be worth it.

Skeletons are not worthless. People will say this, but the fact of the matter is if you want to win fights against steadfast things and have it matter, you need ranks. Skeletons offer cheap ranks (only 20 points per rank, that's a bargain!) and a parry save. They don't have to kill a single model to be worth their points. In said tournament yesterday, I took a unit of 60 skeletons. In every game, they got into a fight they had no hope of winning. Also in every game, they broke my opponent's steadfast and were the only reason I was able to break their army and run them down.

Game 1: Got charged by a unit of swordsmen and knights. Held my center until my knights and crypt horrors could get into the fight and break my opponent, only because my skeletons broke their steadfast.

Game 2: Charged into a flank of pikemen that were badly beating my knights. Broke the enemy steadfast and won me that game (blood and glory)

Game 3: Charged into an equally large unit of skaven slaves, then got flanked by storm vermin. Lost horribly for 2 rounds of combat and were cut in half until a unit of vargheists hit the flank of the slaves and beat them in combat by a single point. Because I had 1 more rank than the slaves with my skeletons, the storm vermin broke (slaves held) and the combat was mine.

They're not worthless, you just need to take them in big enough units that they can absorb losses, because they WILL lose. If you want them to take less losses (not win, just die less) you can buff them with magic or princes or whatever, but skeletons will virtually never win combat, even with 2X attacks and killing blow and all the works, they are poor fighters and you shouldn't expect them to win. But they can HOLD things so your heavy hitters can break stuff. In your list you have 3 heavy hitters, your two chariot units and your tomb guard. Your tomb guard however can probably break steadfast on their own and are slow enough that they won't get flanks, so what I'd say your list needs is something else that's hard hitting and fast.

Whether that thing is a big monster like a necrosphinx or giant or just a unit like some Necropolis knights is up to you. A "heavy hitter" could also be an appropriately killy tomb king inside the skeleton unit so it can straight up win combats from the front, there are many good choices. I just think that getting enough magic to actually get the skeleton warriors to win combat without assistance is unlikely to occur on the tabletop. The magical buffs aren't terribly effective at making chariot units better either, so you're really only left buffing a small amount of things.

rayner66
14-10-2012, 22:43
Hey nice post with loads of ideas to think and try on. May be a few weeks or so till i get the oportunity to try a few things out, but I'm pretty sure there is something here for me to go on
Thanks
Ok new army list follows
Tomb king (fencers blades, glittering scales) 230
High liche priest- lv 4 210
liche preist- lv 2 105

4 chariots 220
4 chariots 220
14 archers 84
15 archers 90
5 horse archers 70
5 horsemen 60
40 warriors 160

32 Tomb guard w halberds banner & undying legion 476

casket 135

Game went well vs bretonian army, with chariots side charging large block of knights comletely decimating them, which is all he really had

Kayosiv
14-10-2012, 23:17
PM me with the results. A big bummer of helping people with lists on here (which I like to do) is rarely getting to see the results of my advice.

Calathean
25-10-2012, 12:27
The only issue with Fencer's Blades on a Tomb King is that the 'My Will be Done' special rule works on his unmodified Leadership so it would just be him what WS that high. I would giving him something that almost guarantees his 5 Attacks will munch all he comes up against. For an extra 5 points give him the Ogre Blade and you have a S7 TK giving you -4 to AS. Or give him the Gold Sigil Sword and make his attacks I10.