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samtyler
16-10-2012, 22:45
So I've just gotten back into the hobby. The wife and I are both going to start armies, but I'm having trouble deciding what army I want to play. The wife has settled on Bretonnians, and I'm currently leaning towards beastmen, orcs, or vampire counts. Since all my experience is with 40K, and I have a liking towards pretty much all of the Fantasy armies, I thought I'd post on here and see if anyone had comments, suggestions, feedback, or whatever, that might help me make a decision.

Thanks!

Liability
16-10-2012, 22:49
I may be biased, but my vote is for Orcs and Goblins. Loads of variety, loads of humour, and if even if your tactics are non-existent it's fairly in-character.

Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs?
16-10-2012, 23:12
First off, I think it's AWESOME that both you and your wife are getting into the hobby together! Rock on.
So here's a quick and introductory rundown of the army's that you listed. VC is balanced - it can be a powerful army, but it isn't OTT/broken. Orcs and Goblins can be reaaally random, (some of the regiments squabble and won't do anything, some of the weapons are unpredictable, etc...). They're much like their 40k counterparts, but they can be really fun to play. Beastmen still have a previous edition armybook, and as a result many of their units are overcosted.... by a lot. They still have really strong options, but some people consider them a bit of an underdog.
OK, so VC rely on magic quite a bit, and most of their troops really don't fight well, but that's ok because you can bring them back. Their magic is very strong and you have to learn how to play their magic properly/very well if you want to be successful with them. So VC is really magic /manipulation heavy and less blunt hammer fighting (many of their units are tarpit types). Although VC has one of the best fighting lords out there (dubbed the "blender" vampire build) and some nice cavalry or grave guard builds. I'm not terribly familiar with OnG so someone else can chime in, but they do have troops that are quite good at fighting (black orcs!). Beastmen also have very good fighting troops. They also have rules for "ambushing" your opponent- you hold a predetermined amount of troops in reserve and on a later turn, if things go well they can come in behind enemy lines (although this is kind of difficult to do, more often than not they come on from a random table side :( ). Anyways, other than that they have minotaurs ! which just completely wreck face in combat. They also have good speed and maneuverability via harpies, minotaurs, centigors and razagors among others. They are again, not bad at all. I'll leave it at that, I'm sure there are many other things to be said (by others). Cheers!

Treg Almighty
16-10-2012, 23:35
Even if your tactics are non-existent it's fairly in-character.

haha. Story of my life.

Personally I live orcs and goblins because of the variety in both models and on the table. The army has a few good builds and a couple of really good value units. Ie black orcs, savage Orcs and squig hoppers. Cheap characters and chaff and you pretty much have an army that kills things so comically that it can only be good.

Gurrfang
16-10-2012, 23:45
If you fancy an exciting game, orc and goblin players heave the lions share of the fun. I own the vampires and the orcs, and hands down orcs are way more fun to play. Sure, you have to deal with mad ball stuff going wrong, but the beauty is that it can really frustrate your opponent too! Also: versatility, they are one of the most disparate armies around, their models are good, with tons of conversion options. You can't really power game with them, but that's not the point of fielding greenskins in general.

*ahem* Anyways, sounds like you want a horde army, which is fine, at least you aren't going skaven (boo, hiss!) :-P
The question comes down to how competitive you want to go; if its purely fun then orcs can be an A+.

Shieldwolf
16-10-2012, 23:55
Well, I guess (as Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs stated) that the very fact that both you and your wife are going into this is super! I'd go for O&G, but then again it depends if you are in the very competitive spirit or not. I think you're going for the fun, so O&G would be nice. :)

Morkmillian
17-10-2012, 00:00
well my vote is going to be completley bias but

ORCS AND GOBS!!!!!!

just writing your army list is fun!!!
so much choice and the potential for so many differant types of lists - all orc, all goblin, all mounted, or a mix of anythign you want.
plus cheap heroes means you can field some stuff and use some magic items you maybe wouldnt always use without it taking a huge chunk of points.

id say the only down side is you just cant stop buying more!!!!
but id look at certain sites that let you buy cheaper *shifty eyes* maybe at an auction site *shifty eyes*

*edit*
sorry i took out my last line - am i allowed to suggest other websistes on here or link to other ones? not buisness sites just army specific warhammer forums.

samtyler
17-10-2012, 02:49
I don't mind biased input!

I got her hooked on the setting through the rpg, and despite the fact that I'm a huge (huge) fantasy fan, I've only ever played 40K. Lizardmen is where my heart truly lies, but I have a number of conversion ideas for them and I want to refresh my skills at painting and such so that when I do start a Lizardmen army I can do justice to the vision in my head.

They all still sound like fun. I'm not worried about competitiveness. I'm not playing to win tournaments or painting competitions. I'll likely start playing at one of the local stores once I get a feel for what I'm doing though. I think I'm leaning towards Orcs and Vampires now. I like the idea of a massive undead horde relentless advancing...but I also like the idea of a green avalanche of orcs careening down a mountainside. Too much awesome! Can't decide!

@Morkmillian: I've found a few from a thread in the tactics forums.

More comments, input, suggestions, etc are welcome!

m1acca1551
17-10-2012, 03:05
O&G or VC would both be great choices, they are both very prevalent in Brettonian history so you can add a story element to it of thats your thing.

Welcome back btw!!

jindianajonz
17-10-2012, 03:10
I started playing recently with my girlfriend, and she chose Brets and I chose Vampire counts. We've only played some 500 point games since I am trying to only use painted models (it's the only way to keep myself painting them) but it's been pretty fun. Brets are all around great; pretty simple tactics but still very effective, and some really nice models (My damsel looks fantastic all painted up!). Vamps are fun too, but I did kind of underestimate how much work they are (hope you like painting skeletons and zombies!) One of the things that appealed to me about these two armies is that with very few exceptions, the armies look good with various color schemes in each unit (Men at Arms is the only thing I feel should look uniform). It keeps the painting process a little more interesting not just doing the same things over and over again, although not being able to do an assembly line does slow things down too. If you want to have an even match against Brets at low levels, make sure you pick up a unit of Grave Guard- otherwise the knights armor save will trounce you.

Kayosiv
17-10-2012, 07:47
I play both Vampire Counts and Lizardmen and one of my best friends plays beastmen, so I'll give you some good advice here.

Beastmen: They are primarily a ranked infantry army with poor shooting and poor leadership. They have no cavalry (unless you count centigores, and you shouldn't) but are movement 5 minimum. They have excellent monstrous beasts and infantry. They win by using wizards to buff their large blocks of combat troops and have some of the strongest close combat characters in the game. They have various monsters but none of them are particularly competitive. However, since your wife will only have access to trebuchets and bowfire, these monsters will be decently viable against her and with the strength 5-6 attacks they generate they are good against knights. They have a special rule that only works against Empire and Bretonnia as they are the natural antithesis of mankind.

Orcs and Goblins: Literally an army of anything and everything. They have every type of unit from the lowly goblin to the tough as nails black orc. They have artillery, monsters, tough characters, 2 unique spell lores, and can win and play in a variety of ways. The army also suffers from generally low leadership and also suffers from animosity which makes things even less reliable. All in all, they are the least reliable army in the entire game. They however pay for this in discounts to their price so their units are very potent for their cost (if you can get them to do what you want). A very rich and diverse army with a lot of character.

Vampire Counts: A primarily close combat army that wins through magic and characters, however they play very differently than beastmen. Poor fighters in close combat, they rely on their entire army causing fear, being immune to psychology, and unbreakable (they never run away) to win the day. There are Vampire counts troops that are decent in combat, but they are expensive. They are however 100% reliable and will always do what you want them to do because they cannot fail psychology tests (unless of course they have frenzy). Their characters can win through magic, combat, or a combination of both. They have a variety of units and special rules that buff their mediocre troops or weaken their foes. You can make an army that slowly grinds your opponents down, a fierce but small army of super elites, an army of ghosts, monsters, or any combination. The only thing that doesn't really work right now is a pure casting vampire. The issue is that for 400 points to make a casting vampire, you might as well make a fighting vampire that can also cast for 500 points or just spend 200 points on a necromancer. This is mainly because casting vampires in 7th edition's book were too potent and they were trying to tone them down.

Ville
17-10-2012, 08:54
I'd like to point out that VC troops aren't 100% reliable. Very low Ld outside of general's inspiring presence means that stupidity forests, restraining from pursuits and enemy march blocking can be real problems. I once failed to restrain my Black Knights and Varghulf, they pursuited into a stupid forest and were effectively out of the game after that.

Kayosiv
17-10-2012, 22:08
Hmmm true, I did have a spirit host go stupid in a forest all game once.

Hawkwood
18-10-2012, 17:11
a little old but a great quiz on what army tho chose http://quizfarm.com/quizzes/Warhammer+Fantasy/Niklascu/what-warhammer-fantsy-army-would-you-wield-best-not-obvius-all-armies/

Kallstrom
19-10-2012, 07:15
What is this vc/stupidity that you guys talk about?

boli
19-10-2012, 10:12
One thing which hasn't been mentioned yet is who is painting all this:

If you're going to be the one painting all of this up it might be best to avoid the "massive" armies; painting up all your wife's bretonnians and then 200 odd zombies could drive you crazy :P Even though Orcs have have very large goblins regiments I think they may be the "smaller" painting challenge... just... at least compared to vampire counts. It may be worth bearing in mind.

Another issue of your army is the "how to play Warhammer and not ruin my marriage" question :)

e.g. it might be an idea to play with the "*slightly* inferior troop quality" so she can concentrate more in the story of the RPG with her gallent knight's hacking through your troops and only dieing to superior numbers. Bringing a small and highly skilled elite army is not going to win you any marriage points when your superior troops beat the snot out of her characters she spent hours writing a back story for.

In other word it might be best to consider the game as just an extension of the RPG where you (as the GM) provide multiple low-quality troops with which she can level up against and become more powerful; you just have to be careful with not needing too many units especially if you are painting it all! (see point #1 :P)

With all that in mind I do suggest O&G myself; it'll give you the numbers and "lower quality" troops which to die quite nicely against her powerful all conquering knight's (complete with back-stories); but at the same time have the variety; smaller model count and tactics with which you can also enjoy the game much more and they are powerful enough to make her think you are not making her win instead of the VC tactic of "you can kill my troops but I'll just keep adding more and eventually you'll get bored and give up" approach.

samtyler
19-10-2012, 14:39
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

@boli: Theoretically, my wife is painting hers, though I'm sure I'll be helping some. I have a feeling your RPG experiences are a little different from mine, but it's a good point none the less. My wife can be...competitive. Also, I showed her your post and she said she'd send your brownies, if you want.

I think I've decided on Orcs & Goblins. I'll be starting a paint log here soon while I assemble models and try to decide on a theme for them. Thanks everyone!

Jadawin
19-10-2012, 16:11
Hmmm true, I did have a spirit host go stupid in a forest all game once.



I dont think undead test for stupidity as they are immune to psychology.

On topic as an O+G player myself I will give one word of warning: Animosity. Although many people consider it characterful and fluffy in my experience if you are bothered by youre entire game being decided on potentially one dice roll of a 1 dont collect O+G because it will happen. Even if you are playing friendly games it can be incredibly annoying for both players for the O+G to basically decide the game by themselves with little input from the opponent. Of course you can counter it with black orcs but that doesnt sit well with some players.

If i was you purely for fluff I would get vampires, especially of your wife is getting brets lots of fluffy narrative battles potential there!

boli
19-10-2012, 17:34
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

@boli: Theoretically, my wife is painting hers, though I'm sure I'll be helping some. I have a feeling your RPG experiences are a little different from mine, but it's a good point none the less. My wife can be...competitive. Also, I showed her your post and she said she'd send your brownies, if you want.

I think I've decided on Orcs & Goblins. I'll be starting a paint log here soon while I assemble models and try to decide on a theme for them. Thanks everyone!

Its a decision I had to consider when I was trying to get my (now ex) g/f into the game; as in it is no fun as a beginner to have an entire army based on taking causalities. In fact when discussing with ANY beginner wife/ g/f or friend I would recommend the smaller and more elite force at least to start out with. This is doubly important if you don't want to spend the night on the sofa after you kill their general :P

As for a painting log make sure you showcase your wife's attempts as well; it may be disheartening.. even embarrassing to put your first attempts up but it is worth doing so; as seeing your earlier attempts I have found helps you spurn on to "do a better job next time. My log is such a example of "improving on disaster" I'm almost passable now! :P