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Boneville
17-10-2012, 20:03
Hello everyone!

I'm thinking about starting a small force, this force will be themed to boarding both defence and offense. But i don't know wich forces would do this.

So im asking you guys what race would do this best and in fluff terms most often in your opinion. i have been playing with the idea of space marines with boarding shields.

Kijamon
17-10-2012, 20:10
The Heresy book specifies that the boarding shield is the exact method used for this by space marines. The unit is pretty much just a unit with boarding shields and access to fancy weaponry.

Other than that...

Tyranids would use genestealers galore

AlphariusOmegon20
17-10-2012, 20:28
You could use SS equipped models to represent the boarding shields.

That would be the simple way.

agurus1
17-10-2012, 20:42
does it have to be space marines? because an Imperial Navy Marines force would be awesome. Probably equip them as veterans with shotguns, carapace and meltas(lascutters).

Col. Dash
17-10-2012, 20:51
The Seige list could pull it off as you can get tactical marines with Seige mantlets, which let you reroll armor saves. Also you have in the troop slot, Siege Assault Marines which are armed for close combat and can be upgraded to carry combat shields. You have Assault Rams in FA too which boarding actions are their exact role.

Boneville
17-10-2012, 20:52
No it does not have to be space marines, it could be any race/army. i just seem to have forgotten that part in my post.

Polaria
17-10-2012, 21:09
Imperial Armour 9 book has complete rules for boarding assaults with three boarding assault missions, rules for boarding shields and whatnot. Why not use those?

Nubl0
17-10-2012, 21:18
Pretty sure it's stated that nids use genestealers and carnifexs in boarding actions, although it wouldn't surprise me if it's just carnifexs with gaunts swarming behind.

Ghazbad_Facestompa
17-10-2012, 21:30
Marines are probably best for this (isn't it what TDA was made for?), but the idea for using IG for Imperial Navy marines as described above seems like it would be fun to model.

Theocracity
17-10-2012, 22:05
As mentioned, IA9 is good for boarding action-based forces. The Minotaurs space marine chapter is supposed to be pretty good at it.

Beyond that, I'd say that Tyranid and maybe Orks are best known for it.

Boneville
17-10-2012, 22:29
Would Ogryns be used by the imperial navy personell? i got a cool idea in my head to model some with rebreathers and airtanks coupled with more enclosed armour.

Theocracity
17-10-2012, 22:33
Fluff has it that Ogryn don't tend to do well in enclosed spaces, but the image you mention is so awesome that I'd make an exception.

Baneboss
17-10-2012, 23:06
Fluff has it that Ogryn don't tend to do well in enclosed spaces, but the image you mention is so awesome that I'd make an exception.

They could if they had some mind surgery.

However the first thought i had after reading "boarding forces" is Dark Eldar. Fast, agile. Hit and run.

Boneville
17-10-2012, 23:07
How would the imperial navy soldiers look? would they be geared similarly to cadians or more like the elysians? Do they look completely different?

Theocracity
17-10-2012, 23:11
FW's hostile environment Cadian set might be a good starting place. In general, carapace armor seems like a good visual theme.

Baneboss
17-10-2012, 23:23
If youre really interested in Imperial Navy you could invest in some Rogue Trader books from Fantasy Flight. They should have lots of different art pictured there along with the fluff.

Charistoph
18-10-2012, 03:18
Fluff has it that Ogryn don't tend to do well in enclosed spaces, but the image you mention is so awesome that I'd make an exception.

Considering how big the "smallest" Warp-capable ships are, I don't think that would be a problem. The largest Aircraft Carrier on earth is the size of a small Escort in 40K. It's just ships like Chimera and Vendettas that are too small.

OgreBattle
18-10-2012, 04:03
Fluff has it that Ogryn don't tend to do well in enclosed spaces, but the image you mention is so awesome that I'd make an exception.

It's a strange piece of fluff because Ogryns are space australians x40k, and australians are known to be the first guys you send down holes while the allies wait outside drinking tea.

agurus1
18-10-2012, 04:10
after responding to your post I went around looking at models, and honestly I think the elysians would be a good starting point

Chem-Dog
18-10-2012, 04:24
Would Ogryns be used by the imperial navy personell? i got a cool idea in my head to model some with rebreathers and airtanks coupled with more enclosed armour.

DO it!!!! Do it now!!!!!



How would the imperial navy soldiers look? would they be geared similarly to cadians or more like the elysians? Do they look completely different?

There's nothing to say the Imperial Navy won't look like Guardsmen when in combat gear, they would both be supplied by the Muntorium. The only significant difference would be the lack of any reason to wear Camouflage, so you could range from drab utility grey to some kind of reflection of the Navy's Uniform. Dan Abnett's Naval Security wore black.


Considering how big the "smallest" Warp-capable ships are, I don't think that would be a problem. The largest Aircraft Carrier on earth is the size of a small Escort in 40K. It's just ships like Chimera and Vendettas that are too small.

Seconded. Boarding actions in 40K wouldn't necessarily require you to squeeze into any tight spots once you've actually made it over to the target vessel. Oggies could definitely be considered if space isn't at a premium on boarding craft, and if it was I'd still try like hell to get a squad or two in there.

agurus1
18-10-2012, 09:51
would be a cool kill team to do actually, a boarding unit

AndrewGPaul
18-10-2012, 10:48
Courtesy of Dakka Dakka, we have this piece of artwork from John Blanche:

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/12/4/301470_sm-Artwork,%20Imperial%20Navy,%20John%20Blanche,%20La nding%20Crew.jpg

aim
18-10-2012, 12:39
There was this really obscure 40K board game release ages ago that seemed to indicate what a couple of factions might use when boarding these giant cobbled together ships (I think they were called 'Hulks') that were floating in space. Acording to this old, not well known source, the imperium would send terminators as the armour was sturdy enough to deal with situations like traversing coridoors that had little to no cover and close quarters combat. I can't for the life of me remember the name of the game..... it might have been called "Hulks in Space", or possibly "Terminators Fighting Tyranids On Big Ships Called Hulks That Are Floating In Space". ;)

Anyway, point being, there is a precident for Termies and Genestealers being used to board space ships (even if the ships in question werent eactly your standard boarding party situation, the premise and reasoning would be the same).

Col. Dash
18-10-2012, 13:25
In addition to my earlier post. Elysians pre-FW were a heavily space based army. The minis used converted marine scouts with bulkier arms for vacuum suits. The fluff had them coming from a mineral rich system with many asteroid fields and they were constantly on the go doing boarding actions on pirates and so forth. Equipped heavily with shotguns and melta. Really cool looking heavy infantry army before FW took them over and remade them into a light infantry airborne force.

Depulsor
18-10-2012, 13:33
... Seconded. Boarding actions in 40K wouldn't necessarily require you to squeeze into any tight spots once you've actually made it over to the target vessel. Oggies could definitely be considered if space isn't at a premium on boarding craft, and if it was I'd still try like hell to get a squad or two in there.

Well... The problem is, that following a huge cargo-hall... there might be several hundred meters some really cramped corridors and chambers, where orgyns would go almost insane. You have to be prepared for both in a boarding action I think. And Ogryns might have a problem with that.

Sai-Lauren
18-10-2012, 13:51
does it have to be space marines? because an Imperial Navy Marines force would be awesome. Probably equip them as veterans with shotguns, carapace and meltas(lascutters).
Naval armsmen would be the correct term for 40k. ;)

You could also go for Sororitas/Ecclesiarchy with Arco-flaggellants as the strike forces - assuming they ever do release plastic sisters.

Or Eldar, use Warp Spiders to teleport around defensive positions and shoot them in the back, Fire Dragons for cutting holes in bulkheads etc.

There's also a corsair boarding party in Path of the Outcast.


Considering how big the "smallest" Warp-capable ships are, I don't think that would be a problem. The largest Aircraft Carrier on earth is the size of a small Escort in 40K. It's just ships like Chimera and Vendettas that are too small.
I'd disagree that they're the smallest warp-capable vessels, but that's a whole other topic ;) - but anyway, thanks to everything that has to be on board an escort for it to do it's job, the Nimitz-class are about a hundred times more spacious inside than a Cobra destroyer.

The officers areas might be comparatively spacious (although that's still going to be cramped), but anywhere else will be in and around all the machinery, storage bays, magazines, fuel and water tanks, control systems and power feeds.

Of course, if Ogryn are aboard a vessel for an extended time period, they would eventually get used to the cramped conditions (and maybe even get agrophobic if they find themselves in wide open spaces). You'd just have the fun job of getting them on board in the first place. ;)

Boneville
18-10-2012, 22:05
What would armsmen be armed with? from the crew gang entry in IA 9 Boarding stratagem they have shotguns and flak armour.
But what special weapons would they use?

Im thinking meltas as lascutters and demo charges for breaching and sabotage/demolition duty. Would flamers be in?

Lord Damocles
18-10-2012, 22:08
I can't for the life of me remember the name of the game..... it might have been called "Hulks in Space", or possibly "Terminators Fighting Tyranids On Big Ships Called Hulks That Are Floating In Space". ;)
Advanced Space Crusade :yes:


:shifty:

Cthell
18-10-2012, 22:46
I seem to recall Naval Armsmen in the "fire warrior" game; IIRC they were armed with shotguns, but my Google-fu is too weak to locate an image of them, and I'm damned if I'm willing to play the game again just to find out what they look like...

*Edit* Found one (and haven't the graphics aged well?)... http://www.nowgamer.com/ps2/ps2-reviews/909879/fire_warrior.html# (image number 10)

Antipathy
19-10-2012, 00:20
In gordon rennies books, the naval armsmen were shotgun armed, but also carried many improvised weapons, ranging from stiletto daggers worn a la assassins creed to immense industrial sized tools like mallets and wrenches.

The vibe I initially got was of Necromunda in space. However that does not relate to specific armed forces. IIrC, Guard are not allowed free roaming on Imperial ships, instead consigned to quarters (dan abnetss ghosts), yet there are occurences of naval security detachments (standard cadian body armour in codex grey, black fatigues, and a cadian lasrifle with codex grey furniture from the 3.5th edition guard codex) and as mentioned, Elysians were initially marines and boarding specialists.

Chem-Dog
19-10-2012, 00:38
Well... The problem is, that following a huge cargo-hall... there might be several hundred meters some really cramped corridors and chambers, where orgyns would go almost insane. You have to be prepared for both in a boarding action I think. And Ogryns might have a problem with that.

It's a mild dislike of being in cramped conditions, not a crippling case of acute claustrophobia (regarding Chimeras, the nausea they induce in Orgyn is more significant, which is a hurdle you're already overcome if you're playing a game with them). It can be overcome by having a nice friendly Commissar on hand to encourage them to find the next big open space which, conveniently, is just behind the knot of ship's security you're having trouble with. ;)

Failing the battlecry "Through that bulkhead is the ship's galley!" should get your Oggies going pretty much where you need them without complaint.



Or Eldar, use Warp Spiders to teleport around defensive positions and shoot them in the back, Fire Dragons for cutting holes in bulkheads etc.

Harlequins.



Of course, if Ogryn are aboard a vessel for an extended time period, they would eventually get used to the cramped conditions (and maybe even get agrophobic if they find themselves in wide open spaces). You'd just have the fun job of getting them on board in the first place. ;)


Mr T + Glass of Milk. Fixed.


What would armsmen be armed with? from the crew gang entry in IA 9 Boarding stratagem they have shotguns and flak armour.
But what special weapons would they use?

Im thinking meltas as lascutters and demo charges for breaching and sabotage/demolition duty. Would flamers be in?

Shotguns, yes definitely, it's been mentioned a number of time in a number of places that shotguns are the Imperium's firearm of choice for defending a ship (or taking one you want to then be able to use) as they lack the range or penetrating power to rupture the hull.
Anyone effecting progress through Bulkheads is going to need something of Melta calibre so either Meltas as Lascutters or as Meltas will do the job splendidly, Meltabombs are likely to be available too (one assumes their penetrating power is reserved for specialists who know not to be firing the weapon willy-nilly and reisk voiding your imediate environment to space).
Flamers and Heavy flamers would definitely be an asset where enemies are likely to be closely packed together, if you don't mind fires raging through the ship you're fighting in (Graviton or wWbber weapons could be a less catastrophic option for the same basic result).
Demo charges might be used though, for me, their use in 40K seems a little cavalier for the controlled way one would want to use them in boarding actions, if you equip your men with standard shotguns to avoid hull ruptures, you don't then encourage then to start hurling ordnance with a kick comparable to a battle cannon through the companionways.

All these equipment choices are covered by IG Veterans, shotguns can be swapped for free by the Vets, special weapons (Including Flamers and Meltas) can be taken in triplicate, each Sarge can be Power Weapon/Fist equipped for maximum up-close damage, the squad can be given the Demolitions Doctrine which gives them all Meltaguns and allows one to carry a Demo Charge and/or you can equip them with Carapace, because you know that armour would be essential for surviving in brutal close quarters firefights.

HQ: CoCoSq with Carapace.
HQ: Commissar Lord (With Carapace).
Elite: Ogryns (can't have Carapace :( )
Troops: Veterans.

And that's about it. Should be able to squeeze 2 vets and the command Squad in to about 500 points leaving plenty of options to expand.

Xerkics
19-10-2012, 00:38
Yes exactly why does it have to be marines? Most of naval boarding are guardsman equivalent dude with a naval shotgun to avoid tears in the hull.

Toadius80
19-10-2012, 00:56
Iirc naval armsmen are only armed with low velocity weapons due to risk of damage to the ship, thus shotguns. Obviously some would be armed with more specialist weapons like meltaguns/bombs to cut holes in bulkheads. Heaviest weapons I could see naval personal using would be the heavy stubber and grenade launchers (frag) for area denial. Flamers would prob be a no no as last thing you want is to cause fire breaking out on your own ship!

Thinking about it, kinda might explain why in near on all fluff they tend to get massacred pretty bad....

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Kakapo42
19-10-2012, 07:03
Here's my take on it.

There are two kinds of naval organisations in the Imperium, the Imperial navy and the Space Marine fleets. The Imperial navy, as has been mentioned, employs a corps of naval armsmen for ship defence and boarding actions. Many larger Imperial military vessels can also launch teleport hit-and-run attacks which are presumably conducted by specialists.

So, an Imperial navy boarding force would most likely be made up of lots of naval armsmen armed with shotguns and supported by special weapons (discussed below), with Ogryns spearheading advances and Stormtrooper/Grenadier/equivilant troops being used in hit-and-run assaults on vital objectives.

Special weapons I would rate in usefulness, from most useful to least, as: melta guns/multi-meltas, flamers/heavy flamers, plasma guns, plasma cannons, heavy bolters. Melta guns and multi-meltas would be ideal for cutting through bulkheads, heavy debris and other obsticles as well as eliminating powerful threats like dreadnoughts and carnifexes. Flamers and heavy flamers would be useful for clearing out passage-ways, though caution would be needed. plasma weapons, while lacking the utility of meltas, would be useful nonetheless for dealing with high-powered targets (after all you never know when you might get boarded by power-armoured opponents), and heavy bolters could be effective at suppressing large numbers of light combatants. The confined nature of starship interiors and lack of an abundance of heavy targets would make autocannons, missile launchers and lascannons completely useless. Demolition charges would be readily employed as well, as much to destroy enemy ship systems as to defeat attackers.

Space Marine boarding actions would be spearheaded by Terminators, as that is after all exactly what tactical dreadnought armour was designed to do. I imagine a commander of some kind in Terminator armour with a Terminator retinue would lead the force, followed up with tactical squads armed with special weapons (see above for what ones exactly), and supported by assault marines (sans jump-packs, as they would be of limited use in most starship interiors). Dreadnoughts would also make powerful spearhead units, especially as they would be difficult to combat with most weaponry commonly available to units aboard a starship.

Chaos boarding forces would be a mix of cultist-like traitor armsmen and Chaos Space Marines, effectively using a combination of the Imperial forces described above, and very likely with daemonic support as well in the form of either daemons or daemon engines.

Ork boarding forces would of course feature hordes of boyz spearheaded by Nobz (mega-armoured or otherwise), Deff dreads, Killa kans...actually really the only things the Orks wouldn't use in boarding actions would be Squiggoths, Warbuggies/tracks, truks, battlewagons and big-gunz. I can even imagine speed freaks rampaging through ship interiors on warbikes.

Tyrannids would pretty much use just about any of their units. The only Tyrannid organisms not ideally suited for boarding actions are Biovores and possibly Mawlocks.

Eldar boarding forces would vary between Craftworld and Corsair fleets. Craftworld vessels would have a compliment of aspect warriors aboard, most likely Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions, Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders, possibly with Guardian support. As for corsiars, well, look no further than the corsair list in Imperial Armour (I forget which volume).

Dark Eldar boarding actions would be fought with pretty much just about anything they can field on realspace raids, except transports and Ravagers.

Finally, the Tau would maintain boarding forces of pulse carbine armed Firewarriors and pathfinders with support from Stealthsuits, heavy gun drones and space-borne XV-86 battlesuits. These forces would not be used to storm enemy ships however, but for shipboard security (i.e. protecting the ship) and securing enemy vessels that have surrendered, as well as investigating merchant ships for smuggled contraband and other illegal goods.

Sai-Lauren
19-10-2012, 09:35
What would armsmen be armed with? from the crew gang entry in IA 9 Boarding stratagem they have shotguns and flak armour.
But what special weapons would they use?

Im thinking meltas as lascutters and demo charges for breaching and sabotage/demolition duty. Would flamers be in?
Basically, anything that is either very controllable, and can be used for cutting through bulkheads, sealed doors etc (melta's and melta charges, lascutters, maybe cutting torches and power angle grinders for dealing with armour plate in a reasonable time), or something that doesn't have a lot of penetrating power if it misses - shotguns, possibly other projectile weapons, but loaded with dum-dums (lots of damage against soft targets, but really bad against armour), flamers possibly (although the risk of igniting leaking fuel is a problem, but the crew of the Nostromo used them, so that's ok :)), plus close combat weapons like power mauls, knives etc.

Armsmen wouldn't be armed with improvised weapons like big wrenches etc, ratings who're forced into combat would have those.



Harlequins.

Can't really rely on having them available, they go where they want, when they want, and answer to none but the Laughing God hmself.

Although I'm sure there's more than a few troupes that decide a season working on a cruise is not a bad move. ;)