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HalfBlood
20-10-2012, 03:16
So I have been playing 40k for about 3-4 years now and recently I started Orks. (At the start of 6th).

I have always wanted to switch to a horde army so i felt that this was the time to start one.

When i played games against orks in 5th, with my Necrons, I always feared the Waaagh. Or at least I knew that once they called the Waaagh they would probably make it into combat. Now that I started playing Orks I find that the Waaagh just isnt as useful as before now with changes to fleet/premeasuring.

What are your guys opinions about the Waaagh?

Should it be buffed/debuffed, or should each individual unit gain a Waaagh ability much liked the Ork Flyers?

red_drake
20-10-2012, 03:34
I definitely remember thinking "that's it?" when told that Waaagh! Only gives you fleet.
I feel like it should be much more powerful for a once per game ability.
Something like +2i on the charge or somethig.

Haunter!
20-10-2012, 03:46
I think I've only WAAAGH!!!'d once with my orks and it was just to get my warboss into an assault so he wouldn't get shot up the next turn. It would be more interesting if each unit had a special effect while WAAAGH!!! was in effect, but with how trimmed down and streamlined the game has become I doubt something that fun will happen. Who knows though? Maybe the new flyers are an indication we'll get something like it.

HalfBlood
20-10-2012, 04:08
Even somthing as simple as Ork Boyz get +2-4 inches when they charge. Mek repairs affect on a better roll, nobz get +1-2 I on the charge

ftayl5
20-10-2012, 04:18
All I care about is that the Dakkajet gets double shots during a WAAAGH!
That's 18 relatively accurate (BS3 against most ground targets + Twin-linked) strength 6, AP4 shots.
Yes please.

Sparowl
20-10-2012, 04:24
Well, it was kinda a big deal in the previous edition, where Waaaghing gave you fleet, allowing you to run and assault.

Now its kinda weak. I expect in the next codex it'll be changed significantly. Of course, as an Ork player, I understand that our next codex could be years upon years (and possibly a few editions) away.

Tarax
20-10-2012, 08:02
A re-roll on the charge distance still sounds nice, though. Could make all the difference.

igwarlord
20-10-2012, 08:15
I think the new WAAAAGH rule will be that when called your orks may charge 12"
no rolling needed

popisdead
24-10-2012, 21:10
Keep in mind it is a useful defensive mechanism. Having your fearless smaller units tying something up for a turn or weather shooting a bit better is still good.

Generally Orks are bringing shooting units now (well even more so than before) so I usually only have about one combat unit (MegaNobz or Bike Nobz) so when those neet to hit combat, knowing I can re-roll the charge is useful.

But yeah,.. not anything amazing.

The_Klobb_Maniac
24-10-2012, 21:15
Only Gazzie gives fearless :(

Old waaagh (where it was whenever you charged) was a lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot lot better. You doubled your Init if you passed the squad's mob check. Awesome. Now it's "you gain a couple inches on your charge range... maybe."

Nym
24-10-2012, 21:24
The Waaagh! should work like the old Tyranid Catalyst power. On the turn it is used, Orks can hit back even if they were killed at a superior Initiative Step.

After all, the fluff is full of headless Orks running around, so... why not ? Right now, it's rather unimpressive for a "once-in-a-game" ability... :eyebrows:

Son of Sanguinius
24-10-2012, 21:35
It should be buffed. Give them Rage alongside Fleet. I say that only because, while I don't like once per game gimmicks, I don't think it's going to change any time soon.

Rated_lexxx
24-10-2012, 22:24
I definitely remember thinking "that's it?" when told that Waaagh! Only gives you fleet.
I feel like it should be much more powerful for a once per game ability.
Something like +2i on the charge or somethig.

or to make is simple give them rage. Fits fluff wise and its not over the top

The_Klobb_Maniac
24-10-2012, 23:26
Why is everyone against Orks having initiative? They had it before (when they charged) which was fine. It's bad enough that we have terrible initiative for init tests that kill you (jaws, sweeping advance, etc..) and when you get charged etc.. I'd like there to be a reason for grenades. I'd like there to be a something other than "You lose guys to shooting. You lose guys to overwatch. The models that make it lose guys to initiative. Oh hey you get to attack!" Keep in mind that Orks have the same Init as Necron, Tau, etc.. armies famous for terrible init.

Do people remember they're supposed to primarily an assault army? You know.. one good at assault? Instead of mediocre at it? Currently Orks are a reasonable shooting army and a nigh-terrible assault army save for MANz and Nobz. +2I instead of a re-roll would be quite balanced; allowing the basic Ork boy to strike blows with marines, allowing nobz to be super-human for a turn, and Warbosses to be impressively fast on rare occasion. We're not talking Game-breaking here. We have enough str, enough attacks, enough toughness. We just never get to strike. Nyms suggestion is also good.


Remember that 6th heavily buffed init and really killed horde combat (due to pile-in distance) I.E. Orks got hit hard in the assault area and got boosted in shooting (but less so than others.) So while a SM can expect to get into combat, Orks can expect to often *not even strike* during the first combat.

Sorry for the rant, but let's be real here and not call "I4" *on the charge* OTT or OP.

MajorWesJanson
25-10-2012, 02:21
I'd go for the DakkaJets example- each unit has a special ability that triggers on the turn the waaagh is called. Lootas get relentless and can reroll their d3 for determining shots. Boyz can run then declare a charge. Nobz gain twin linked. Trukks can ignore dangerous terrain for the turn. Things like that. Make the Waaagh an integral part of the army theme.

Son of Sanguinius
25-10-2012, 02:51
I'd go for the DakkaJets example- each unit has a special ability that triggers on the turn the waaagh is called. Lootas get relentless and can reroll their d3 for determining shots. Boyz can run then declare a charge. Nobz gain twin linked. Trukks can ignore dangerous terrain for the turn. Things like that. Make the Waaagh an integral part of the army theme.

I'd love to see that happen, but I wonder at GW's inconsistency with complexity. Like how Grey Knights need seven different types of nemesis force weapon but the Marks of Chaos all confer the same separate benefits, regardless of unit. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I wouldn't put money on an army like Orks getting that type of in depth attention.

Rated_lexxx
25-10-2012, 02:54
I'd go for the DakkaJets example- each unit has a special ability that triggers on the turn the waaagh is called. Lootas get relentless and can reroll their d3 for determining shots. Boyz can run then declare a charge. Nobz gain twin linked. Trukks can ignore dangerous terrain for the turn. Things like that. Make the Waaagh an integral part of the army theme.

When I read the rules for the dakka jet and 6th came out I thought this might be the direction orks will be going

Jayden63
25-10-2012, 03:17
Waagh! rules worked much better in older editions. 3rd ed. Waagh was much better than 4th. Double iniative on the attack so much better than FC. However, when they gave everybody run and fleet allowed assaulting after running when 5th edition came out, it was passable. It gave orks an additional D6 charge range which made all the difference.

Now with 6th edition, its practically worthless. Nice to see that it is free ability but rerolling the charge distance isn't that great when your talking 2D6, it could infact hurt you more than help. However having said that, I take a wierd boy in my list because I want the Waagh!. I run two dakkajets, so the more waagh! the better. However, that is an example of having to specifically tailor your list around one single concept. That is not good game design.

Waaagh! needs to change, and I too feel that it should return to a bonus to initiative like in editions past.

NerZuhl
25-10-2012, 03:18
My deffwing sure does miss it. Waaagh does literally zip for meganobz just like their stikk bombs.

Rated_lexxx
25-10-2012, 22:27
Waagh! rules worked much better in older editions. 3rd ed. Waagh was much better than 4th. Double iniative on the attack so much better than FC. However, when they gave everybody run and fleet allowed assaulting after running when 5th edition came out, it was passable. It gave orks an additional D6 charge range which made all the difference.

Now with 6th edition, its practically worthless. Nice to see that it is free ability but rerolling the charge distance isn't that great when your talking 2D6, it could infact hurt you more than help. However having said that, I take a wierd boy in my list because I want the Waagh!. I run two dakkajets, so the more waagh! the better. However, that is an example of having to specifically tailor your list around one single concept. That is not good game design.

Waaagh! needs to change, and I too feel that it should return to a bonus to initiative like in editions past.

how could rerolling your charge hurt. You know the distance that is needed before hand so you know what you need to get.

Not only that but you get another 3 inches for consolidation.

Lastly everyone is probably going before you...so they will get there 3 inches consolidate into your first. They have to try to get into b2b, so they can't avoid getting in contact with u.

If a couple of my orks can make it I am not rerolling the dice

Jayden63
25-10-2012, 23:06
Rolling a charge distance of 3 inches sucks (1/12) chance. Rerolling and getting a 4, 5, or 6 (1/3 chance) also sucks and is always inferior to the old method. That is why it sucks. Until the odds were equal to the old guarenteed minimum of 7" anything else is just inferior. Now that 6th edition has changed how charing works, its only natural that the Waagh!, which is a convention based soly on charging, should be changed as well.