PDA

View Full Version : Black Orcs vs Arachnarok



Chunter
06-11-2012, 08:13
Hey guys,

Just wondering which would be more efficient/competitive in holding up a flank/generally in 2500pts O&G:

1) Arachnarok Spider

2) 20 Black orcs, Std, Mus, Cheap Banner

Both equate to roughly 300 pts

Thanks,

Chunter

Sh4d0w
06-11-2012, 11:10
Who would vote for the black orcs???? There's only 20 of them. My advice would be take the arachnarok unless you plan on buffing the black orcs up to atleast 40 then take them.

Yowzo
06-11-2012, 12:44
Depends on the rest of the list. The spider is a very mobile T6 platform with 8 wounds and poisoned attacks. Throw curse of the spider god on it and even the goblin crew can make an impact.

Orcs can carry the flame banner and make a mess of hydras, HPAs and other regenerating beasties, even just 5-wide in 4 ranks (or 3x6 with two at the back). They're still M4 orcs, though but that also means they can be buffed by 'ere we go.

It's a good 10 games I don't find the points for the aracnarock, though, and BOs always find their way into my lists. Be it on a small flank cover unit or a proper horde. They're your only source or flaming attacks, too (ok, there's boar boyz and the ruby ring also).

Djekar
06-11-2012, 14:03
I just don't think that 20 Blorcs are going to be as effective as the Arachnarok. I've run 30 black orcs and seen them pretty consistently evaporate to the point when the are no longer a threat, I can only imagine that 20 would be even worse. Granted, my A-rock (Boron) has been on a tear recently, so I imagine that is skewing my objectivity.

Malorian
06-11-2012, 16:12
Arachnaroks works very well on the flank where their terror and their speed is a bigger factor.

stillwater
06-11-2012, 17:08
the arachnaroks speed/ranged and poison win over Bo's on every point where a flanking unit is considered, whereas the bos are very much the solid choice when you horde them ie. 40+ they would still underperform on any flank since theyll just be eating up chaff and cheap flankers so theyll never make good on their points investment.

Bo's my 2 cents take a big 40+ regiment but dont waste it on your flank deployment.

O&G have much more effective flank guard/attack choices ie. chariots/manglers/1squig+9handlers/wolf riders/boar riders/arachnarok. And all of these choices perform better on a flank and worse in your main lines. It all depends on your gameplan offcourse and what your opponent fields.

Greets!

russellmoo
06-11-2012, 17:22
The arach could work on the flank, just be careful, while it is stubborn its LD is low and will still need to be in range of the general, unless it is sure to win combat-

Chunter
06-11-2012, 19:48
I was considering making a unit of 40 Black Orcs, full command in my centre to replace my 50 NG Anvil, which I might move to the flanks w/ their fanatics.

Yowzo
06-11-2012, 20:29
I just don't think that 20 Blorcs are going to be as effective as the Arachnarok. I've run 30 black orcs and seen them pretty consistently evaporate to the point when the are no longer a threat, I can only imagine that 20 would be even worse.

If you're running them as one of your main blocks then sure, 30 is too small of a unit.

A smallish unit to anchor a flank does not attract anywhere as much shooting, magic or heavy opposition, as they will usually target whatever your main blocks are (SOBUs, Trolls, etc.). I've even ran them successfully 18 (6x3) and even 15 (5x3). They can still secure a flank and see off whatever flanker they face.

Kalandros
07-11-2012, 06:47
I have a unit of 30 BO with Banner (Flaming) and musician in my list. 390 pts - I wouldn't take an Arachnarok for 100 pts less because I'd have to remove either my mangler squigs or two of my warmachines (2 Manglers, 2 Divers, 2 Lobbers in my 2500 pts list - 460 pts of rare, do not have 290 to fit the spider).

Djekar
07-11-2012, 11:41
@Yowzo - I'm not talking about getting shooting or magic weakening them. In straight up fights - either in the center of my lines or on the flanks, they seem to evaporate too quickly. If I have the points in rare (which is crowded as Kalandros points out) I'd much rather have a faster, more durable spider than 20 black orcs. Again, Boron has been doing well for me and black orcs have never been the all stars of my lists, so I am not claiming complete objectivity here.

Spiney Norman
07-11-2012, 12:13
As others have said, I wouldn't consider taking any infantry in 8th edition that didn't have at least 30 bodies, preferably 40. 20 Blorcs would be a total waste of space and the Arachnarok would almost certainly serve you better.

On the other hand if boosting the Blorcs unit is a possibility, say to40, then it becomes more of a close run thing. Neither the spider or black orcs are front edge OP, and neither are horribly poor so as long as you build the unit in the most efficient way possible there's probably little to choose between them.

Yowzo
08-11-2012, 08:10
@Yowzo - I'm not talking about getting shooting or magic weakening them. In straight up fights - either in the center of my lines or on the flanks, they seem to evaporate too quickly.

On the flanks? I've vaporised hydras, chariots, aboms, etc. with those small blorc units hitting them on the flank. In my experience, they only struggle against T8 sphinxes. As monster hunters they're your best bet, and you don't want to waste the points on a full-sized horde just to have it held by dragon princes or a lone character with a 2+ fire save.

Djekar
08-11-2012, 12:57
Stuff that kills my 30 black orcs on the flanks: Mournfang. Dragon Princes (stupid flaming banner...). Clanrats led by a Plague Priest (oh yes, I am not making this one up. Beaten and run down. The shame!). Saurus warriors. Sphinxes (you mentioned). That's without buffs/debuffs. God help me if someone takes a potshot at them first or throws a spell their way in a crucial combat. Also, they *do* tend to get shot a lot, since people generally don't like black orcs sweeping 'round their flanks and all that. Around here it goes: "redirect/stall the middle combats until I get the matchups I want, shoot the stuff on the flanks that I don't want to/can't deal with" - my Blorcs often catch the heat in the second step.

Yowzo
09-11-2012, 08:15
Stuff that kills my 30 black orcs on the flanks: Mournfang. Dragon Princes (stupid flaming banner...).

Anything with a 2+ fire ward save can stall a unit with the flaming banner. That's precisely why a horde of 40 with the flaming banner can be very dangerous. You may well end up with 500ish points halted on their tracks by some cheap character.

Mournfang? Name a unit in the book that can stand up to mournfang. Even 5+ SOBUs die in droves if you let them charge you. We have other tools to deal with them (namely redirecting, doom divers and foot of gork).

I'm all for anyone shooting my small unit of black orcs if that means the big block of trolls and SOBUs get to combat in full strength.

immortal git
09-11-2012, 14:39
Araknarok hands down, maybe im a little biased because every time I've used mine he wins the game for me