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Xerkics
15-11-2012, 23:32
I was just reading the beastmen thread and decker brought up that beastigors were at the top of 2nd group tier while bloodletters and white lions were in the top one? I heard about army tiers before but to be honest i never heard about the unit type tiers for infantry cavalry etc? Especially since we were discussing what was elite in Chaos Warrior thread.
So i was wondering if people could post it im curious what the tiers are like?

And im just curious in what people think they are i dont really want to start a debate whether one unit is op or underpowered etc. Which is why im posting it as a seprate thread as i dont really want it to devolve. Just post your opinion what the tiers look like and feel free to elaborate why certain units are top of the tier like cost overall utility etc. ill do an example:

Categories i was interested in : Infantry, Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry, Monstrous Infantry, .
I think there was already a thread about best monster and it seems to be HPA.
But feel free to just do infantry as its the one im most interested in.

Example:

Infantry:

Tier1:
White Lions. ( str6 with reroll and hitting first coupled with good ws and great magic support)
Blood Letters
Chaos Warriors

Tier2
Saurus
unit x

Tier 3
unit y
unit z

etc

Thanks.

boli
16-11-2012, 09:06
Isn't this a bit subjective?

Skavenslaves will rank at close to the bottom, but are considered overpowered due to the cheap cost; zombies can perpetually tarpit a unit for the entire game. Even Stormvermin will rank high up as they are a core unit, with a supporting warmachine for a really cheap cost.

Of course on pure killing power none of those rank up highly; at least compared to the ones mentioned.

Xerkics
16-11-2012, 10:17
It is subjective im just interested in peoples personal tiers opinion

immortal git
16-11-2012, 23:07
Top Tier...

Bloodletters
white lions
Savage orc big uns
Chosen

However in this list 40 savage orcs beat 40 of the above in the old mathhammer

Second tier

Chaos warriors
Swordmasters
Saurus
Bestigor
Pheonix guard
Black orcs

Why
17-11-2012, 14:31
Calvary

Top tier:
Glade riders
Warhawk riders
Wild riders

Lower tier:
Everything else

:shifty:

GenerationTerrorist
17-11-2012, 23:24
Infantry

Top Tier:
Savage Orc Big Uns (especially with Shrunken Head Shaman!)
High Elf Phoenix Guard
Dwarf Hammerers
Skink Skirmishers
Grave Guard
Night Goblin Horde with Netters and Fanatics

The above is my own opinion only.
For example, Skinks cause me all kinds of grief, but other players probably don't rate them very highly.
Same thing with the Night Goblin horde. They decimate any of my WoC or HE units that dare get near them, then tie them up for hours on end. The little gits. Gotta love them though :-)

SteveW
18-11-2012, 03:53
Top tier: infantry
Savage Orcs
Swordmasters
Chosen
Bloodletters

Cav
Grail knights
Chaos knights
Blood knights

thats all i got.

Lordcypress
18-11-2012, 06:50
Well baring any spell upgrades.

Top Tier: Infantry
Savage Orc Big Uns'
Swordmasters
Chosen
Bloodletters
Tomb Guard
Grave Guard
Black Orcs.........These guys can be deadly but they can suck totally too. Their right on edge of Tier 1 in my opinion. They get owned against Swordmasters.

Cavalry Top Tier:
Blood Knights
Chaos Knights
Grail Knights
Demigryph Knights
Mornfang Cavalry

The second tier is too massive and way too subjective to even try making.

warplock
18-11-2012, 12:32
Top tier infantry in terms of power:
Chosen
Chaos Warriors
Swordmasters
White lions
Temple Guard
Bloodletters
Black Guard (if unit size cap is removed)
Savage Orc Big'uns

Almost top tier:
Bestigors
Hammerers
Grave Guard
Tomb Guard
Saurus
Executioners
MoK GW Marauders (!!)
Black Orcs
Greatswords
Phoenix Guard

Lowest of the low:
Zombies
Skeletons
Skaven Skaves
Gnoblars
Common goblins
Free company

Middle tier: everything else


Top tier offensive cavalry:
Chaos Knights
Blood Knights
Grail Knights

Middle tier:
Dragon Princes
Cold One Knights
Black Knights
Cold One Cavalry
Inner Circle Knights
Knights of the Realm

Low tier:
Boar Boys
Knights Errant
Seekers of Slannesh
Empire Knights
Silver Helms

Xerkics
18-11-2012, 12:40
Lordcypress mournfangs and demigryphs are monstrous cav not cavalry so theyd be in their own section not cav. And thanks nice to see diff tiers

decker_cky
19-11-2012, 14:14
Top tier infantry in terms of power:
Chosen
Chaos Warriors
Swordmasters
White lions
Temple Guard
Bloodletters
Black Guard (if unit size cap is removed)
Savage Orc Big'uns


I'd drop the bolded units all down a tier for having a critical flaw. Black guard have the unit cap, swordmasters are too vulnerable to shooting with little else besides killiness at 15 points each, temple guard are merely a bodyguard unit (meaning front line slann, with the challenge shenanigans that now results in). Bestigors are as good as those, but have a flaw in their need for character support in a stubborn beastlord to really make an effective unit for example.

popisdead
19-11-2012, 18:30
The point of this is to recognize that Tier one units will be:
1 - Combat based
2 - Access to the ability to re-roll to hits
3 - Access to high strength.

So Hatred, or ASF (with high Init) then Wissan's Wildform, Great Weapons, Mindrazor will all be ways to accomplish this.

decker_cky
19-11-2012, 23:31
Resilience is an important factor too.

warplock
20-11-2012, 12:50
I'd drop the bolded units all down a tier for having a critical flaw. Black guard have the unit cap, swordmasters are too vulnerable to shooting with little else besides killiness at 15 points each, temple guard are merely a bodyguard unit (meaning front line slann, with the challenge shenanigans that now results in). Bestigors are as good as those, but have a flaw in their need for character support in a stubborn beastlord to really make an effective unit for example.

If we allow Black Guard into the top tier as long as their unit cap is removed, then surely Swordmasters have to make it too, as they're just as easily killed but are even better in combat (with the one exception being 'unless they're fighting Black Guard'). Temple Guard are good in their own right, they're just a point or too expensive. But with a statline dominated by 4's, a 4+ save, halberds for S5, 2A, I think they're top tier, certainly a lot better than, say, Greatswords and Black Orcs, who make the middle tier. But I was looking at infantry's power, not cost effectiveness. If we were to draw up a new list based on power-per-point, Skaven Slaves and Marauders would be top tier.

SteveW
22-11-2012, 04:48
^but Black orcs make it on being able to fill any roll in close combat(armed to da teef) with Immune to psych and high toughness.

Glen_Savet
22-11-2012, 06:00
Temple Guard are really only possibly top tier IF they have a slann supporting them. They don't have any psychology rules beyond cold blooded if they're on their own. They're only I2, and will drop like flies to any init test spell.

warplock
22-11-2012, 13:52
I don't think armed to the teeth makes BOs top tier, they still only have one WS4 attack and heavy armour (you can buy shields I think?).
Temple Guard being cold blooded is great! They don't need ItP or anything, cold blooded is a trick enough. And yes they have low I, they die far easier to I-test spells than, say, elves, but then again they die less than elves to strength or toughness tests... Anyway, I've had enough of defending Temple Guard- I think they're top-tier but I can see how you might think otherwise. It's not like any of this tier business matters anyway :D

Xerkics
22-11-2012, 14:20
Yes its all subjective

decker_cky
22-11-2012, 14:53
I don't think black orcs are in the second tier (or they're right at the bottom of it). They have some nice abilities (additional choppas or great weapons in the first round are both particularly good), but in general, I think they're a rather expensive unit for what they provide. They're good enough to use if you want them, but not so good that you handicap the army by not taking them. Part of that is that there's a top tier unit available in the army, but part of that has to do with them not being that spectacular in their own right.

With swordmasters, they're top tier from a mathhammer perspective, but I find that enough armies have decent shooting that it drops them from being no-brainer good to being second tier good (which is still very good). Black guard on the other hand hand a big utility added through stubborn, which makes them very useful even if their numbers are cut down by shooting (however their number cap prevents them from being top tier).