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eldargal
16-11-2012, 13:24
Crusade of Fire is a campaign system for Warhammer 40,000 that enables you to join the campaign to control the Corvus Sub-sector. Whether you choose to join the Crusade of Fire itself, the foul Servants of Ruin or the bloodthirsty Prophets of War, the fate of the sub-sector lies in your hands.

This 96-page, full-colour hardcover book features exclusive artwork and a host of dynamic new rules. As well as the campaign system itself, the book contains rules that can be used in any Warhammer 40,000 game, from massive multi-player scenarios fought in low-gravity environments or in bunkers deep below the ground, to expanded rules for Flyers. It also features rules for playing games in the gladiatorial arenas of Commorragh as well as for fighting battles on the surface of a Daemon World.

Crusade of Fire also features the story of nine hobbyists as they play through the campaign, including detailed battle reports, fantastic army showcases and turn-by-turn accounts of their conquest.
25

I'm looking forward to this.

IcedCrow
16-11-2012, 13:25
I just posted this 10 seconds ago in general lol. Yes I'm extremely looking forward to this as well.

spaint2k
16-11-2012, 13:29
That was pretty unexpected.

eldargal
16-11-2012, 13:36
There was talk of a surprise in December, and this certainly qualifies as a surprise.:) Two week advance order is noteworthy on its own, heh. Super enthusiastic about this, rules for Commorite arenas for heavens sake...

Diavlo
16-11-2012, 13:37
Shut up and take my money :)

IcedCrow
16-11-2012, 13:40
low grav worlds, demon worlds... this will open up a lot for scenario writing :D

Scammel
16-11-2012, 13:45
Presumably this falls into the same camp as Blood in the Badlands, except cooler.

Royals
16-11-2012, 14:04
I'M SOLD! This sounds amazing!

Void Reaper
16-11-2012, 14:06
This does sound pretty cool!

superdupermatt
16-11-2012, 14:08
Looks pretty cool, i can imagine my gaming group getting it :D
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

Deamon-forge
16-11-2012, 14:13
nice cant wait ordered

Fizzy
16-11-2012, 14:14
Just no..

I find campaigns boring and this book is a way to make more money.
Me and my fellow players play standard games and if we want a campaign we make our own. Writing a short story and making a goal with each mission.

I was expecting Blood bowl to be honest. Really disappointed. But then again GW have never made me go: "WOW!" the last 4 years at least.

IcedCrow
16-11-2012, 14:19
That's exciting for you and your players. Believe it or not there are those that actually enjoy playing in campaigns and its nice to get a rulebook or supplement once in a while without having to rely on forgeworld to do it.

Theocracity
16-11-2012, 14:21
this book is a way to make more money.

Shame on GW for wanting to make money. Who do they think they are, an international business?

I'm quite excited for this. It sounds like a great way to add some interesting new rules, and hopefully some awesome story.

Mage
16-11-2012, 14:23
This looks pretty good, I've already ordered it.

Mage
16-11-2012, 14:24
Shame on GW for wanting to make money. Who do they think they are, an international business?

I'm quite excited for this. It sounds like a great way to add some interesting new rules, and hopefully some awesome story.

Not to mention firing hobbyists up paint up their armies.

Wyrmwood
16-11-2012, 14:24
this book is a way to make more money.
Everything Games Workshop does is for the purpose of generating revenue. :rolleyes:

I'll be interested to read the rules for low gravity and daemon worlds. :yes:

von Hohenstein
16-11-2012, 14:36
157677


Ah they did it again, and again i couldn't resist.

MagicHat
16-11-2012, 14:52
Everything Games Workshop does is for the purpose of generating revenue. :rolleyes:

I'll be interested to read the rules for low gravity and daemon worlds. :yes:

Rules for low gravity worlds are in the MRB:
Weapon ranges is increased, jump packs/jetbikes/skimmers can travel farther.

Frankly, judging by the warzone traits in the MRB, I don't think that I would enjoy this very much. I already dislike stuff like warlord traits and all the mysterious stuff, without terrain that either massively boosts or cripples my armies.

Royals
16-11-2012, 14:55
I have never played in a campaign before and I really want to take part in this. This is just more fuel to add to the fire to get me painting again!

x-esiv-4c
16-11-2012, 14:57
I'm interested. Would like to see a few more details. It would be nice to have more fleshed out Kill-team rules.

Fizzy
16-11-2012, 14:59
I am not complaining on you guys but you gotta understand me as well. Anyone can design campaigns with a few friends. Maybe not as deep but still. While making a boxed set of a game is harder to accomplish.

And yes GW makes money but they start to make products that are not needed for the gaming to work. They could make a 40K cookie just because as well.

theJ
16-11-2012, 15:01
Last year we got Blood in the Badlands and now we get this... is this going to be an annual thing?

In either case, I know someone who'll be visiting yon' local GW about a week from now, and it ain't not me! :D

Azazyll
16-11-2012, 15:23
Hopefully more crunch than BitB

Wyrmwood
16-11-2012, 15:25
Rules for low gravity worlds are in the MRB:
Weapon ranges is increased, jump packs/jetbikes/skimmers can travel farther.
D'oh. Would you believe that I actually have, and have read, the rulebook? :p


Anyone can design campaigns with a few friends. Maybe not as deep but still. While making a boxed set of a game is harder to accomplish.
I do agree with you here. To be fair though, the Crusade of Wrath might have some interesting ideas and fleshed out rules that can be used to boost the campaigns that those of us already play. :) Also, art!

MagicHat
16-11-2012, 15:33
D'oh. Would you believe that I actually have, and have read, the rulebook? :p

You are obviously lying :p

You can see the rules for Deamon worlds on the preview page as well.

I love how Khorne and Nurgle marked gains no benefit from Deamonic Possesion, but Tzeentch and non-fearless Slaanesh do.

nagash66
16-11-2012, 15:38
Well they can count 1 copy sold :D.

jspyd3rx
16-11-2012, 15:39
This is a great surprise. Add more variety to missions, especially for tourneys.

Does anyone know if the rules for the new fortification boxes is in this book?

Zywus
16-11-2012, 15:51
I am not complaining on you guys but you gotta understand me as well. Anyone can design campaigns with a few friends. Maybe not as deep but still. While making a boxed set of a game is harder to accomplish.

And yes GW makes money but they start to make products that are not needed for the gaming to work. They could make a 40K cookie just because as well.
For gaming groups without experience of designing their own campaign's it's helpful to play through some ready-made ones first.

Also, making a campaign isn't a very tricky undertaking really, but it's one of those things that's notorious for being talked about but never actually being carried through. My old gaming-group has a half finished home-made fantasy-campaign that we've probably talked about carrying through for over a decade now:(

Fable
16-11-2012, 15:57
I've been running a 6th ed campaign for a little while now so this should provide some nice little ways to tweak what I've been doing.

murgel2006
16-11-2012, 16:28
I am not complaining on you guys but you gotta understand me as well. Anyone can design campaigns with a few friends. Maybe not as deep but still. While making a boxed set of a game is harder to accomplish.

And yes GW makes money but they start to make products that are not needed for the gaming to work. They could make a 40K cookie just because as well.

Frankly, no, not anyone can design a campaign.
Most people can't. Some because they do not like the work, some because the lack in imagination etc.
But even those who can can't design an official 40k campaign. Where the games have meaning for the whole 40k world.
This idea is nothing new, all RPGs have it Battletech had it and 40k has seen it before. Personally I hope to see a lot more campaign-books in the future.

Besides, campaign-books are always a nice way to introduce the competitive tournament-players to games of real meaning..... ;)

And I like your idea about a 40k cookie. Post it to GW and ask for some benefits...

Astraeos
16-11-2012, 16:32
I'll probably buy it as I enjoy flicking through GW codexes and such! Plus I'd like to see the armies of those 9 gamers it mentioned.

Krayd
16-11-2012, 16:47
I'm most interested in the expanded rules for flyers. I'm wondering if they will have rebalancing elements.

loveless
16-11-2012, 16:53
Wow, that's...actually something that appears to be worth the price. It's up alongside all of the Wall of Martyrs components, too. Nicely done, GW.

Starchild
16-11-2012, 16:56
Why the hell does this have to be a limited edition release? :wtf:

Darnok
16-11-2012, 16:57
Ordered it the minute I saw it. If it is anything like "Blood in the Badlands", it will be an excellent book. Looking forward to this! :)


Why the hell does this have to be a limited edition release? :wtf:

One of my local GW stores still has BitB - which was "while stocks last". So I would not interpret too much into it.

Aryllon
16-11-2012, 17:01
Digital please GW!*
Looks wicked.

*Er, along with the main rulebook while you're at it.

razormasticator
16-11-2012, 17:11
Does anyone know if the rules for the new fortification boxes is in this book?

LOL you mean the one that sold out in one day and is impossible to find?

Kijamon
16-11-2012, 17:14
This is right up my alley, will definitely get one. Might wait till I go down to Warhammer World to place that order though.

I love random missions and effects, if you play against the right people then it makes the game a laugh a minute.

Mattyhavok
16-11-2012, 17:19
They are actually releasing that set in several small boxes now. It's just not all in one megabox anymore.

Mattyhavok
16-11-2012, 17:20
I am excited for more expanded rules. Hopefully it will give the game a bigger feel, without being the jumbled mess of apocalypse.

Fizzy
16-11-2012, 17:27
Its good for those who like it. And I dont despise you for that.

I just think it is more fun to design my own campaigns with my friends. It takes time but we take time to do it. We draw things, have skype meetings and discuss rules.

Ahh well I hope Blood bowl within 2 years in a box and that you can buy other teams than those that might go with the box.

It would make me think GW is okay again. Right now I am at bit disappointed the last 4 years. Except Dark eldars was a perfect design actually. But I just look at my girlfriends Dark eldar :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
16-11-2012, 17:29
Ohh, that's actually very neat. I'd certainly like to see it, even if I don't play enough to really use it. And one can never have enough campaign books, even if you want to do your own its always good to have ideas to be inspired by, both for potential missions, campaign mechanics and just generally interesting rules bits.


As for Blood Bowl, I'd be rather worried about GW taking it back. It's doing pretty well on its own, I'd rather not GW mess with it for a new box.

nosebiter
16-11-2012, 17:39
So a campaign book tht should be a regular available book is "As stock lasts" yeah that makes sense.

Wont make me order it until i actually get to flip through it and see if it is worth the price.

razormasticator
16-11-2012, 17:44
They are actually releasing that set in several small boxes now. It's just not all in one megabox anymore.

Yeah I saw that. It still frustrates me. I went to get one later that night they released it an it was toast.

megatrons2nd
16-11-2012, 17:50
It sounds like this book has rehashed rules from an old White Dwarf for the Dark Eldar arena. Some added tables for terrain rules, and maybe a couple of the old rules from the old BRB for campaigns put in it. The only thing, aside from the White Dwarf sounding tale of 9 gamers and possibly some artwork, that is actually new is the expanded fliers rules. This book is smaller than the White Dwarf, and costs a lot more. I won't be buying this.

Souleater
16-11-2012, 18:27
157690

Is the Big Daemon of Khorne new or am I just very much behind on things?

madden
16-11-2012, 18:36
It's a forge world warhound Titan.

This sounds interesting but I'd want to see it before buying. (and I hope there's some left after crimbo, kids cost a lot right now.)

Souleater
16-11-2012, 18:49
I recognise the Titan, I am referring to the Daemon in the foreground. Is that Forge World, too?

Covering Fire
16-11-2012, 18:57
I recognise the Titan, I am referring to the Daemon in the foreground. Is that Forge World, too?

Looks like a converted plastic Daemon Prince to me.

Darnok
16-11-2012, 19:03
It is a mildly converted DP, but mostly it is straight out of the box.

Lars Porsenna
16-11-2012, 19:15
Personally I couldn't care less if Blood Bowl ever is re-released. This, however, might motivate people in my group to re-start the campaign gaming we had going. I posted this over on our list, waiting to see what sort of response it gets...

Damon.

HereticHammer01
16-11-2012, 19:22
yeah don't think there are any new models in that picture that I can see.

The book itself looks very nice, the rules for Commoragh's gladiatorial arenas are a good idea. Nice art too!

de Selby
16-11-2012, 19:53
Huh, it seems GW has finally got inside Warseer's OODA loop and is releasing genuine surprise products. They've really stepped up their game in this regard.

I don't actually want one, but most importantly I didn't see it coming!

Navar
16-11-2012, 19:58
I think it is awesome.

Hopefully there will be some Forge World stuff in it as well.

Daniel36
16-11-2012, 20:06
Cool! Blood in the Corvus Sector, or something.
Not currently interested in 40K, so I won't be getting it, but it is great to see GW giving gamers some love. This is basically what a lot of people want to see in White Dwarf, and the price doesn't seem too bad either. It's good they are catering to people other than the "youngsters".

Maxis Lithium
16-11-2012, 20:37
I want one, but the fact that it's listed as a "while stock lasts" and as such limited quantity only. I would like to get it, but I am afraid it'll be gone by the time my pay check arrives sunday.

Aryllon
16-11-2012, 20:58
I don't necessarily think this is the 'big December surprise' that was mentioned (in fact I'd say the terrain is a 'bigger' release, not just financially or physically). Yeah it'll launch around the right time but it's not something I would have positioned in that way if I were GW. It's not going to make much of an impact regardless how cool it might be (especially on the balance sheet and that's what investors will look at if iirc the big surprise comment was part of the annual report). I'd still expect something in addition to Hobbit in Dec. With Daemons first in 2013.

Edit: @Navar, sounds like there is FW stuff in it; there's a mention of rules for games 'in underground bunkers' which could allow for the use of Zone Mortalis board sections in regular games. Releasing independent 'GW' rules for FW kits is a nice stepping stone towards full acceptance of FW stuff on the table :)

MajorWesJanson
16-11-2012, 21:03
I plan to see if my FLGS gets some and buy one from there. If not, I am pretty sure my slightly less friendly LGS will have some.

Azzy
16-11-2012, 21:15
Awesome!

The limited release is much less awesome, though.

superdupermatt
16-11-2012, 22:02
If this is the Tom Kirby "something special" release, then they've under performed. It's nice, sure, but not something to specifically mention to the shareholders about.

autarch dsaliuvid
16-11-2012, 22:09
It might be ok if it has new fortifacations ,but if not its just a book of alternate charts to roll on for terrain rules that i have yet to use let alone see anyone else play with. and it seems like they just filled it out with the studio campaign to make it have enough pages to make it seem like it a good deal. I hope its not as bad as i fear but i cant see paying for more rules im not useing already.

Brother Dimetrius
16-11-2012, 22:14
I like nice books, and I loved Blood in the Badlands. Gimme!

IcedCrow
16-11-2012, 22:22
If you only play tournament style games then i doubt this book would interest you.

prowla
17-11-2012, 01:05
If you only play tournament style games then i doubt this book would interest you.

Well, campaigns can be formulated to be a bit like long tournies, right? ;)

However, I'm not buying it until I see what it has - and being "limited edition" with very little of actual content in preview makes it extra suspicious! I guess there will be a detailed marketing speech.. erm, detailed article in the WD.

IcedCrow
17-11-2012, 01:19
I can agree with that (wanting to see if its worth it)

Long tournaments? They could be yes. They are typically more relaxed though but thats a player thing so can be different from group to group

ehlijen
17-11-2012, 02:06
Here's to hoping that 'limited' edition refers to the hardcover and a more sanely priced softcover will follow...

What, I can dream, right?

superdupermatt
17-11-2012, 02:16
You can certainly dream, but there will be no softback coming out.

LordBest
17-11-2012, 03:10
Just when I promised I wouldn't buy anymore GW stuff until next year.

zoggin-eck
17-11-2012, 05:12
It's up alongside all of the Wall of Martyrs components, too. Nicely done, GW.

Yeah, I thought Badlands could have been a great excuse to make and sell some new terrain, so this makes sense to me.


So a campaign book tht should be a regular available book is "As stock lasts" yeah that makes sense.


Why do we all go through this every time? A one-off print run run just ensures they sell it all, and supposedly printing costs are an issue. That's the argument for Space Hulk being single run, and if it's the difference between having it (and other new stuff) and not having it, then I'm happy they go ahead. The odd person not having the money for it that month, when it's an odd release like this, doesn't seem to be GW's concern. If anything, though, I'd like to see a little more warning on these limited items, but since they've done it a few times now, presumably it's working for them.

Besides, I'm in Australia, the supposed "forgotten by GW" country, and I've never had much trouble finding "limited" stuff later on.

Shibboleth
17-11-2012, 06:29
...Besides, I'm in Australia, the supposed "forgotten by GW" country, and I've never had much trouble finding "limited" stuff later on.
Me too. There's still Dark Vengeance Limited Editions on shop shelves here.

They could do Limited run books like Black Library did the Khan goes to war book. That way everyone has time to save up and noone misses out, yet it's still valuable as limited...

philbrad2
17-11-2012, 08:41
Looks good but I want to see it first before committing to purchase. From the pre-order spiel it sounds like an amalgam of the missions book and expansions like Planetstrike/Spearhead than a campaign book in the FW Imp. Armour style. It's certainly no codex:EoT but I applaud GW moving this way to expand the basic game beyond the rulebook.

PhilB
:chrome:

Antipathy
17-11-2012, 09:57
After Blood In the Baldnads, I'll be avoiding this. 8 pages of new rules in return for a glorified battle report and miniatures gallery?

Thuggrim
17-11-2012, 09:58
After blood in the badlands which was a good read but fell woefully short with regards to actual rules content, I will want to see this before I purchase it. If the limited run sells out then that my 25 quid they won't get.

Core rules should be expanded I agree but they should also bring all codexies to a level playing field etc - which will impact on play experience more than some rules a gaming group could write.

zoggin-eck
17-11-2012, 11:21
Core rules should be expanded I agree but they should also bring all codexies to a level playing field etc - which will impact on play experience more than some rules a gaming group could write.

What does this release have to do with releasing/leveling the codexicals? It's been released just after the Chaos one, and there's no suggestion little releases like this were made "instead" of anything else.

Not owning the current Chaos book, are those studio models or player's own models? I rather liked seeing the non-studio armies in Badlands, even if it was the same old terrain.

Darnok
17-11-2012, 12:30
Not owning the current Chaos book, are those studio models or player's own models? I rather liked seeing the non-studio armies in Badlands, even if it was the same old terrain.

I do not know the rest, but at least the khornate models are from a studio member. Can't remember his name right now though.

Hengist
17-11-2012, 12:58
If this is the Tom Kirby "something special" release, then they've under performed. It's nice, sure, but not something to specifically mention to the shareholders about.

This. Whether or not this is GW's supposed "special surprise", 25 for 96 pages of the kind of content that's already regarded as filler in WD is pretty poor.


A one-off print run run just ensures they sell it all, and supposedly printing costs are an issue. That's the argument for Space Hulk being single run... presumably it's working for them.

Didn't work so well with Dreadfleet, however, which translates to a success rate of only 50%.

Mage
17-11-2012, 13:09
I do not know the rest, but at least the khornate models are from a studio member. Can't remember his name right now though.

Wayde Price and his World Eaters army?

Darnok
17-11-2012, 13:15
Wayde Price and his World Eaters army?

That's the one. Without having the book to check I can't be sure, but those models look a lot like his.

anselminus
17-11-2012, 13:22
oh my god!!! i was really surprise by the battle books, i find it really nice, but i'm a reall fan of 40k and i hope the quality of inside is similar

Zothos
17-11-2012, 15:28
After Blood In the Baldnads,

Anybody else not ever want to read that book?

Ordered my Crusade of Fire! Very happy GW is doing something like this. Hopefully it is akin to the old campaign packs from 2nd edition. Those were much fun!

Theocracity
17-11-2012, 15:59
After Blood In the Baldnads,


Anybody else not ever want to read that book?

It sounds like a good reason to see your doctor.

Walls
17-11-2012, 17:12
After blood in the badlands which was a good read but fell woefully short with regards to actual rules content, I will want to see this before I purchase it. If the limited run sells out then that my 25 quid they won't get.

Core rules should be expanded I agree but they should also bring all codexies to a level playing field etc - which will impact on play experience more than some rules a gaming group could write.

A lot of hate for Blood in the Badlands in here and I think for the wrong reasons. People wanted rules and competition. They really needed to put a disclaimer on the first page. "DON'T BUY THIS TOURNAMENT MINDSET PEOPLE" or something. I am all for competitive play, but BitB is anything but. It's a very narrative campaign... and my favorite GW book! I am definitely 1 in... well 1 in however many people bought the book.

pjklan
17-11-2012, 17:31
and, obviously, stickmonkey didn't have a clue about it.
and people keep on believing him.

Darnok
17-11-2012, 18:03
and, obviously, stickmonkey didn't have a clue about it.
and people keep on believing him.

Actually nobody had a clue about it. That's neither for nor against any of them.

Fizzy
17-11-2012, 18:06
If I had the extra money I would check it out but now I will use my money for other things for my armies.

Gaargod
17-11-2012, 18:10
As someone else said, "Extended rules for flyers" is very interesting. This may be sucky (i.e. in scenarios with the low-grav rule, flyers do X), or it may actually try to rewrite some of the rules for flyers. You know, to make them less :wtf:

The Dude
17-11-2012, 19:58
Actually nobody had a clue about it.

Yeah, Goddamn that lying Harry and his equally lying cohort Hastings those lying liars. Lying their filthy lies from their lying lie-holes!

And you, Darnok! You also said nothing about this. I'm so disappointed in you for your lies.

Oh God!!! I also said nothing about it. How could I lie to me like that? :cries:

Sildani
17-11-2012, 23:06
Heh. Well done, Darnok and Your Dudeship.

I want to see this book before I buy it. It'll be nifty to read and the new art may well be amazing, but as most of my games are at my local GW I wonder how long this book will "last" with people willing to play its rules.

Shibboleth
17-11-2012, 23:26
Actually nobody had a clue about it. That's neither for nor against any of them.
Actually The Dark General did mention a "largely Daemon-based" campaign book, amongst his 'Chaos Legions' rumours.

Darnok
17-11-2012, 23:27
Actually The Dark General did mention a "largely Daemon-based" campaign book, amongst his 'Chaos Legions' rumours.

Oh, hadn't noticed that. We'll see wether it fits the description then.

Commissar Merces
18-11-2012, 05:44
This sounds very promising, but alas, I am just not willing to spend $41.00 on something like this. If the DA codex is around the corner, that's another $50. I would really have to hear some excellent reviews to consider it, but I could be persuaded, especially if I dislike the Dark Angel's release.

Gorbad Ironclaw
18-11-2012, 07:02
A lot of hate for Blood in the Badlands in here and I think for the wrong reasons. People wanted rules and competition. They really needed to put a disclaimer on the first page. "DON'T BUY THIS TOURNAMENT MINDSET PEOPLE" or something. I am all for competitive play, but BitB is anything but. It's a very narrative campaign...

Maybe its just me, but in a campaign book what I'd mostly want is interesting mechanical stuff. Making up a story is, IMO, the easy part of doing a campaign, its the mechanics of the actual crunch that's hard. So the campaign system, how is forces manages, custom scenarios, special rules, units, characters, terrain etc. Mechanical stuff I can reuse in something I'd do of my own. For instance, with the new Infinity book, I bought that one for the campaign system and the missions even though I knew I wouldn't care for the story of the campaign as I don't like that section of the background.
Doesn't have anything to do with tournament gaming, but if they really just want to tell a story then I'd rather they wrote it as a novel. If they then wrote an article or two about how to turn that into a narrative campaign with some useful tips that would be much more useful too.

Spiney Norman
18-11-2012, 07:51
After blood in the badlands which was a good read but fell woefully short with regards to actual rules content, I will want to see this before I purchase it. If the limited run sells out then that my 25 quid they won't get.

Core rules should be expanded I agree but they should also bring all codexies to a level playing field etc - which will impact on play experience more than some rules a gaming group could write.

I kind of agree in a way, having read through Blood in the badlands it was essentially a story book about a group of GW employees playing in the kind of campaign that gamers up and down the country play in all the time, it was interesting to be sure, but not exactly useful unless you value instruction on how to suck eggs. Every GW veterans club I've been involved in has been running map-based campaigns like BitB for years, there was nothing really new in it.

From the description of the 40k book I can see the arena of death rules being interesting, and much used at our local club, it will at least prevent any arguments about how to handle a 1v1 character challenge. Also the expanded rules for flyers could make a significant improvement to the game depending on how they've handled them.

adreal
18-11-2012, 10:46
I wouldn't get my hopes up about the 'expanded rules for fliers'. If GW really wanted to change how fliers work, they would need to bite the bullet and eratta it, not release a limited stock campaign book. I'm not going to buy the book, it doesn't interest me, if GW did an official change to thier core rulebook with it, how would I know, then I would cheat, some one in game would call me on it, but we would both have official rules. That wouldn't make for a fun gaming experience now would it.

eldargal
18-11-2012, 10:58
How do you go from 'expanded rules for flyers' to 'errata'? I'm sure it is exactly what it says, some extra rules to use in campaigns. No offense intended but it seems like a perverse jump of logic, like claiming GW were changing the rules for WFB buildings on account of the siege rules in Blood in the Badlands.

zoggin-eck
18-11-2012, 11:13
I hope there's mostly new artwork in this one. Buying BitB and getting re-used Storm of Magic art, even Warhammer Online concept art wasn't what we've come to expect from GW. I kind of prefer narrative/linked scenario campaigns to map based ones, but luckily Forgeworld/WH Forge seem to be sticking with them (and Monstrous Arcanum had all new art! :)).

AT least it looks like appropriate armies this time. Badlands without Orcs? Bah!

The Dude
18-11-2012, 11:15
It'll just be something like rules for flyers only missions.

Hadriel Caine
18-11-2012, 11:42
Sounds exciting, certainly worth a read for some ideas and the pit fighting rules sound great.

As to people complaining about it being 'Limited Edition', and this has been covered in part by other posters, GW intentionally make things Limited Edition so that if you were in two minds about buying the product but feel it may be cheaper now than on eBay in a couple of years you're more likely to buy it now. They're a very good money making machine and I don't think I'm being cynical in suggesting that perhaps they know more or less how many of these they're likely to sell and make a profit and so will only print that many. There's no need to make more of something if it won't sell and if that very scarcity potentially increases the value of the limited item.

Its simple supply and demand really and GW are very good at it.

megatrons2nd
18-11-2012, 14:09
It'll just be something like rules for flyers only missions.

So maybe like the old Jetbike Chase in an older White Dwarf. The one where after each player moves the terrain moved back by 6", and the goal was for the first player to leave the board on the opposite edge. All terrain was impassable even for the jetbikes, and you had the choice of keeping up(and possibly having the terrain moving onto the board running into you) or staying in place, where you moved back 6" like the terrain. You could call it "Barnstorming" or "Duel on the Deck" or "Under the Radar Fighter Chase" and allow the fighters to move like normal vehicles, and count all terrain as blocking again.

That was a fun game. It was originally designed to represent the Star Wars Return of the Jedi Speeder Bike chase on Endor. I think I still have that book floating around as well.

The Decayed
18-11-2012, 17:57
It'll just be something like rules for flyers only missions.

If that's true, I'll buy it, and immediately start an Ork Airforce!

If not, I'll wait untill I've seen one in the local GW and decide on the spot. (most likely based on the amount of new artwork or other inspiring pictures)

Hadriel Caine
18-11-2012, 20:13
@megatrons2nd- there was a similar scenario option in the Gorkamorka ruleset. Always great fun. It would be a welcome addition to 6th IMO.

The Dude
18-11-2012, 22:58
So maybe like the old Jetbike Chase in an older White Dwarf.

I was thinking of something like that, yeah.

tiger g
18-11-2012, 23:54
Well IA 8 has it for dune buggies in a scenario

Herzlos
19-11-2012, 14:29
Cool! Blood in the Corvus Sector, or something.
Not currently interested in 40K, so I won't be getting it, but it is great to see GW giving gamers some love. This is basically what a lot of people want to see in White Dwarf, and the price doesn't seem too bad either. It's good they are catering to people other than the "youngsters".

It's a lot of money for something that used to be the sort of thing included in the magazines, especially if it's as short as I suspect


After blood in the badlands which was a good read but fell woefully short with regards to actual rules content, I will want to see this before I purchase it. If the limited run sells out then that my 25 quid they won't get.

Core rules should be expanded I agree but they should also bring all codexies to a level playing field etc - which will impact on play experience more than some rules a gaming group could write.

That's my worry, 96 pages including filler doesn't sound like much for 25. I think you've just saved me 25 :)

Ranzimus
19-11-2012, 17:32
I ordered my copy from my LGS!

(Sent from my Imperial Astropath who I named "iPhone" to avoid confusion.)

Minsc
19-11-2012, 18:11
Doesn't seem to include any rules for new units, so I think I'm gonna pass.

Making up rules for terrain/scenarios/campaign's and using at my LGS for friendly games, is not something I need an official book for.

Thuggrim
19-11-2012, 21:50
A lot of hate for Blood in the Badlands in here and I think for the wrong reasons. People wanted rules and competition. They really needed to put a disclaimer on the first page. "DON'T BUY THIS TOURNAMENT MINDSET PEOPLE" or something. I am all for competitive play, but BitB is anything but. It's a very narrative campaign... and my favorite GW book! I am definitely 1 in... well 1 in however many people bought the book.

Er how is defining a book as a good read hate, I was observing it was sold as a rules addition for campaigns and seiges and it was rules light. Wanting rules doesn't mean competition. I was observing that given the disaparity between description and reality for Blood in the badlands, I will wait until I have had a chance to look at this before I purchase.

Krucifus
20-11-2012, 16:19
Well it certainly looks interesting, I'll enjoy having a peek to see if there's much new artwork, but judging from the few pages GW have on their website as previews I get the feeling its going to be a lot of repeats from the Chaos dex.

As much as random terrain dice rolls all over the board sounds like it could be fun on paper, there's a reason why we don't use the ones in the BRB, it detracts from actually playing the game... If that's all this mainly is I won't be using it.

That said, Arena-of-death style rules for Commoragh sound like a brilliant idea! And if these 9 player Battle Reports are of the White Dwarf style of old (pleeeeeease) instead of game summaries in a paragraph, then it's probably worth the money.

Did I read right that there's 3 factions in this book?

Aryllon
20-11-2012, 16:26
Yeah - Imperial, Chaos and Dark Eldar
But I'd presume each faction has multiple races too.

Maxis Lithium
20-11-2012, 20:19
I find it frustrating how GW is treating their independent accounts with this book (and with new stuff in general right now) My local store is only getting 10% of what they ordered from GW for this book. That means that, as I was 5th on the list, the number they are getting is 4 or less, and I would;t be surprised if he;s only getting one or two books. The fact that this is a limited quantity book is really upsetting me. I want to be able to actually BUY the product. Why won't GW take my money?

Edit: One. the local store was given ONE copy of this book. I guess GW is allergic to being a successful business?

Darnok
20-11-2012, 20:36
I find it frustrating how GW is treating their independent accounts with this book (and with new stuff in general right now) My local store is only getting 10% of what they ordered from GW for this book. That means that, as I was 5th on the list, the number they are getting is 4 or less, and I would;t be surprised if he;s only getting one or two books. The fact that this is a limited quantity book is really upsetting me. I want to be able to actually BUY the product. Why won't GW take my money?

Edit: One. the local store was given ONE copy of this book. I guess GW is allergic to being a successful business?

GW is very happy to take your money - for the full price. ;)

Maxis Lithium
20-11-2012, 22:41
GW is very happy to take your money - for the full price. ;)

Plus shipping. And taking bread out of the mouth of the local store where I play.
No, I don't need this book that much. If I can't buy the product locally, then it's not worth purchasing.

wyvirn
20-11-2012, 22:54
Yeah - Imperial, Chaos and Dark Eldar
But I'd presume each faction has multiple races too.

It really would suck if GW said something like "Codex X, Y, and Z take part in this campaign. If you don't own one of those armies, sod off." It would also suck if all of the faction were shoehorned in, so it will be interesting to see how they navigate between the two sides.

I also will say it looks crunchier that BitBL, because there are rules for fighting on a demonworld in the photos.

Aryllon
20-11-2012, 23:03
Maybe campaign-specific ally lists. That would be cool (and probably gives much more justification to some of the ally choices).

Fairly sure I read somewhere that there are 9 factions involved (I'm assuming imperial is multiple PA + Guard, Chaos is CSM + Daemons, Dark Eldar includes CWE etc).

Plus I guess there's nothing to stop you subbing-in different codices to play the same campaign, so long as there aren't rules about particular unit types (although flyer rules kinda rules out certain codices... unless for example they're covering FW units as well so that e.g. Eldar flyers are represented alongside Codex flyers).

Lord Inquisitor
20-11-2012, 23:12
A lot of hate for Blood in the Badlands in here and I think for the wrong reasons. People wanted rules and competition. They really needed to put a disclaimer on the first page. "DON'T BUY THIS TOURNAMENT MINDSET PEOPLE" or something. I am all for competitive play, but BitB is anything but. It's a very narrative campaign... and my favorite GW book! I am definitely 1 in... well 1 in however many people bought the book.
Na, I don't think anyone expected competitive rules from a campaign supplement. But I was deeply unimpressessed by blood in the baldnads (as it shall henceforth be known!). It didn't really have any interesting mechanics, not many new scenarios at all and few interesting scenarios or ones suitable for games outside the campaing, reliance on the mighty empires mechanics, etc.



As someone else said, "Extended rules for flyers" is very interesting. This may be sucky (i.e. in scenarios with the low-grav rule, flyers do X), or it may actually try to rewrite some of the rules for flyers. You know, to make them less :wtf:
Indeed. If "extended rules for fliers" means "actual proper rules for fliers" then this book is a must-have... Rules for interceptors, bombing runs, actual AA defences? Would be great but I doubt this is what we'll have. I'm not holding my breath...

Ranzimus
21-11-2012, 01:34
It would be fun if they offered a list like 13th Company in the campaign book. There is precedent.

Maxis Lithium
21-11-2012, 01:55
I highly doubt there will be any additional units/lists in this book. A functional template for campaigns plus some additional rules for locations, environments, etc... would be very cool. I am hopeful that it will contain rules for the wall of martyrs as a fortification, and perhaps rules for modifying existing fortifications (total with list on the last one) is all I am expecting from this book. But it will be very welcome, especially if it's nicely written to combine with Planetary Empires.

Bigmarsh
21-11-2012, 03:08
I don't know how new this is but I just checked the GW USA site and it's no longer available for purchase.

Herzlos
21-11-2012, 09:25
It really would suck if GW said something like "Codex X, Y, and Z take part in this campaign. If you don't own one of those armies, sod off." It would also suck if all of the faction were shoehorned in, so it will be interesting to see how they navigate between the two sides.

I also will say it looks crunchier that BitBL, because there are rules for fighting on a demonworld in the photos.

I'd buy it if it said that, and covered the army I have. I'm not going to touch it if I don't know if I can actually use the book. i.e. I have Guards, my gaming buddy has Blood Angels and some Orcs, that's it. If the scenarios don't allow sane games with those armies (even treating some as rebels) then I'm as well buying a random historical skirmish campaign book and trying to use that.

Interestingly, "Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy" (general gaming magazine) has a set of mini-scenarios for campaign games in this months issue. I've not read it yet but it illustrates how that sort of thing isn't unheard of in magazines.

IcedCrow
21-11-2012, 13:14
None of their campaign books have ever been "if you don't own this army sod off". The scenarios are typically loose and you can substitute them as you see fit.

What I expect this book to be is a GW studio campaign using the planetary empires tiles which you can follow with your buddies or lift bits and pieces. I used Blood in the Badlands and lifted bits and pieces for my group's campaign this year. I plan on using this to incorporate into our campaign for 40k running right now.

Herzlos
21-11-2012, 14:39
That may be the case, but it'd be nice if GW actually explained this stuff.

All we've had to go on is a vague description and the limited stock will all be gone before we have any more than rumours to go on. I literally don't have enough information from GW's description to decide if I want to buy it without seeing it first.

The sceptic in me thinks it's so drive sales before people are disappointed :p

Aryllon
21-11-2012, 15:49
The description in the webstore and blog seemed pretty thorough to me - other than giving us the actual content (which they did, in part, for daemon planet rules) I can't see why they need to give more away. We know there are rules for a campaign (scenarios etc) which covers three factions and nine armies (and we know that campaign books are army-flexible pretty much by default), we know there are additional rules for flyers, daemon planets and Dark Eldar arena fights, we know we get to follow the nine gamers taking part in the crusade, we know there is new artwork for people who like that kind of thing... it's not enough?

Herzlos
21-11-2012, 17:18
The webstore doesn't provide much information beyond the following contents: 96 pages, there are 3 unknown vague factions (which could cover any army, who know?), that there are extra rules which can be used in 40K, and that the campaign walkthrough features 9 players (presumably 3 from each 'faction', but who knows?).

It certainly doesn't tell us anything about what armies can be involved (in the campaigns or the arena fights (Dark Eldar only? Everyone?)) how flexible it is, or how much of the book is content Vs editorial.

There may be more in a blog, I don't know anything about that, I'll try and find it now.

Edit: Found the blog, the only extra information is provides is that there are 9 armies (allowed in the campaign? Just in their walkthrough?) and that it's a must have.

Here's the blog text:


Crusade of Fire is a hefty 96-page hardback book that features new rules and scenarios for your games of Warhammer 40,000. There's so much to look at in this book, it's hard to know quite where to start. There are nine beautiful armies to look at, campaign rules to pore over, maps and artwork in abundance, additional rules for flyers to try out, new scenarios to play and so much more. There's even a section on Arena of Death matches, the classic one-on-one, hero-vs-hero challenge where only the strongest (or sneakiest) will survive. This is one of those books that, while not essential for a game of Warhammer 40,000, should be part of every hobbyist's collection - it's insightful, inspirational and, above all, fun.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=5700042-gws

Faeslayer
21-11-2012, 18:12
If I can easily use the campaign with my local 5-player group (Chaos, Space Marines, Eldar, Orks and Dark Eldar) without basically writing my own campaign, I'll keep it.
If I can use a whole bunch of rules/scenarios with my group, I'll keep it.
If it's 94 pages of stuff I can't use and two pages of dogfighting/arena rules, I'll honestly just sell it.
I do wish I had more information.

Hite
21-11-2012, 19:27
I find it frustrating how GW is treating their independent accounts with this book (and with new stuff in general right now) My local store is only getting 10% of what they ordered from GW for this book. That means that, as I was 5th on the list, the number they are getting is 4 or less, and I would;t be surprised if he;s only getting one or two books. The fact that this is a limited quantity book is really upsetting me. I want to be able to actually BUY the product. Why won't GW take my money?

Edit: One. the local store was given ONE copy of this book. I guess GW is allergic to being a successful business?

How many a store gets is based off of how much they sell. It is like that with all limited items. GW rewards independent stores that put effort into promoting their games.

Aryllon
21-11-2012, 19:38
Nope, they told us everything I said. None of it comes from rumours. Everything I mentioned I got from the blog and the store, and I just checked again. It's all there.

Space Marines & Imperial Guard are named in the first faction (both vanilla and Space Wolf marine variants are pictured, giving us three armies already), Chaos Space Marines named in the second (and pictured, and on the cover, with Daemons very heavily implied, giving us two more armies), and Dark Eldar plus 'fractous' allies in the third (so that's six armies we know and implication that there is at least a seventh per DE allies). All three of the factions are named in the text and in the screenshots. It states that the book includes rules for fighting on daemon worlds, in low gravity, underground and in gladiatorial arenas (Daemon world rules actually shown, including special rules for Grey Knights, Craftworld Eldar, CSM and CD when fighting in these environments). Multi-player scenarios are mentioned. The fact that it's hardcover & full colour is mentioned. Army showcases are mentioned. It even says in plain print in the product description: as well as the campaign system, the book includes rules that can be used in any Warhammer 40'000 game.

And all that is just from the webstore; the very text pasted above adds that there are additional rules for flyers and exclusive artwork, and explains that the Dark Eldar arena rules are for 1v1 combat.

Everything is right there and not hidden - folk can't complain that there's no information, when it's presented exactly where it should be but just hasn't been read.

Regardless, all armies can be involved in any role in any campaign - it's kinda the point of a campaign book. Faction-specific narrative doesn't mean GW will send the police to get you if you use a different army...

Herzlos
22-11-2012, 10:58
The description text mentions nothing about the factions beyond vague names, and whilst there may be information in the screen shots I'm not able to read it clearly enough to tell. Yes we can tell some of the armies used from the artwork, but it doesn't actually tell me if it's of use or not.

Ideally, we'd see something akin to the walkthrough in the blog or in the White Dwarf issue before it's available for pre-order. That would allow the customers to see what the rules are like and decide to buy it based on content and merit, rather than grabbing it whilst it's available. I know that'd never happen because the book would half in size though.

As for the faction-specific narrative, yes I agree any campaign can be modified to suit any faction, but if I'm having to re-write the campaign in order to fit it into my gaming, then why don't I grab a more comprehensive campaign book (Such as the Roman conquests of Gaul, or a Vietnamese war campaign) and modify that to suit, or just write my own?

The main appeal of the GW book is that they do the creative part for me, and I can just use the campaign as is, but I just don't know if that'll fit my obscure gaming. Hopefully I'll be able to see the book in store and find out :)

MiyamatoMusashi
22-11-2012, 12:01
Do you guys also expect a precis of what characters are in a novel, what their motivations are, and whether they survive the book, before buying anything from the Black Library?

It's a campaign book. It's going to be a lot like Blood in the Badlands, but for 40K: some really cool non-tournament-focussed ideas, probably nothing that you can lift straight from the page and use, but also probably nothing that you can't possibly use without minor tweaks either. I really liked BitB so I'll be getting this; not everybody did so not everybody will, and that's fair enough. But this sense of indignant outrage that they haven't published the entirety of the book for free so you can decide if you want to buy it, is absurd. There's enough info that you can decide whether it's something you'd be interested in (and there's no right answer to that, it's a personal preference)... what more can you reasonably expect?

Malakai
22-11-2012, 23:02
GRRR! I completely dropped the ball on this release. I didn't notice it and now it's gone. What the hell GeeDub?! Book is sold out before the WD even comes out. :mad:

13th guest
23-11-2012, 00:45
GRRR! I completely dropped the ball on this release. I didn't notice it and now it's gone. What the hell GeeDub?! Book is sold out before the WD even comes out. :mad:

Maybe they are hoping that if you can't get it you will buy it from Australia at a higher price and import it (Oh that's right, that's what they want to stop happening with their international trade ban).

IcedCrow
23-11-2012, 03:03
Like Badlands I'm sure that you will be able to get a copy from ebay... for 5x the normal price ;)

I know people that bought several copies of this to sit on and put on ebay.

Brotheroracle
23-11-2012, 04:49
Wait it sold out on the pre order?

Darnok
23-11-2012, 08:36
Wait it sold out on the pre order?

Seems to be like that for the US. You can still order it in the UK.

Herzlos
23-11-2012, 15:19
Do you guys also expect a precis of what characters are in a novel, what their motivations are, and whether they survive the book, before buying anything from the Black Library?

It's a campaign book. It's going to be a lot like Blood in the Badlands, but for 40K: some really cool non-tournament-focussed ideas, probably nothing that you can lift straight from the page and use, but also probably nothing that you can't possibly use without minor tweaks either. I really liked BitB so I'll be getting this; not everybody did so not everybody will, and that's fair enough. But this sense of indignant outrage that they haven't published the entirety of the book for free so you can decide if you want to buy it, is absurd. There's enough info that you can decide whether it's something you'd be interested in (and there's no right answer to that, it's a personal preference)... what more can you reasonably expect?

Knowing the plot of a novel or even characters are irrelevant; the novel should stand on it's own.

Knowing something about an campaign book which is an expansion to a huge pre-existing universe with a huge buy in cost is different; because it doesn't stand on it's own. Playing anything in the campaign book relies on owning sufficient suitable figures to use with the campaign rules. Whilst the description tells you what sort of rules it contains, it doesn't tell you much about who it's aimed at or who can use it. Though it sounds Space Marines Vs Chaos Space Marines with some Dark Eldar interference, it'd be nice if it said something reassuring like "Can be used with any faction matchup from the 40K universe". If it's only marines Vs Marines, it'd be no use to me if I only had Tyranids and my Friend only had Orcs, for instance.

I'll be able to figure it out with a brief flick through of the book, if I can get hold of one.

Chapters Unwritten
23-11-2012, 15:25
I have struggled for a long time to create a campaign mechanic for my club so if this book has some intriguing simplified means of doing that, I'd be happy to give it a go. Odds are our supplements have paid closer attention to this, though.

Some campaigns are pretty clever in their mechanics, some are kludgy like the latest iteration my club worked on. But mechanically speaking, GW tends to avoid a campaign mechanic almost completely, opting instead for "Here's a series of missions, play them in order and see what happens!"

Given the Planetary Empires board, this is of course a complete waste.

Also, let's not kid ourselves here, they went way out of their way to port concepts from Fantasy into 40k. I wouldn't be surprised if this book was identical to BitB, honestly.

MagicHat
24-11-2012, 22:58
There is some more info in the WD.

For the Crusade of Fire, there are strategic objectives and Grand Warlord traits, with the Servants of Decay and Crusade of fire traits shown (I wont even try to read the small text though). You can play as a team of players.

The rules for flyers gives you dogfighting and rules for advanced manouvers, as well as Fighter Aces.
Fighter Aces is kinda pricy and gives you an ability rolled on a D3. You can read the effects for IG (+1 front AV lol), Tau, Orks, BT and Necrons (Re-roll 1's to hit... all your current fliers have twinlinked weapon necrons...)
There are effects that applies to nearby infantry also, (IG can make nearby IG fearless, orks Idol of Gork gives 6+ FNP and Necrons have a resurrection orb so it is not pure aircraft fighting.

Arena of death includes rules to gain the adulation of the crowd and surviving captivity. It also uses manouver cards. No idea how they work.

EDIT: The army shot of an Imperial Fist army shows marines with... Boarding shields I think they are called? The forgeworld thing.

Aryllon
24-11-2012, 23:10
Yup. Looks really good. I might buy it even though I don't have a gaming group right now.

Archibald_TK
24-11-2012, 23:50
Fighter Aces is kinda pricy and gives you an ability rolled on a D3. You can read the effects for IG (+1 front AV lol), Tau, Orks, BT and Necrons (Re-roll 1's to hit... all your current fliers have twinlinked weapon necrons...)
BT can have Aces? Now they just need to find a flyer somewhere :p

MagicHat
25-11-2012, 00:05
BT can have Aces? Now they just need to find a flyer somewhere :p

Yeah, I thought they could use some Forgeworld flyer, but this is the text:
"The pilots of the Black Templar chapter hail from the same origins as any codex chapter. In combat though the zeal of their brethren inevitably spills over to the Techmarine pilot".
Challenge the Heretic; better at dogfighting
Cleanse the Heretic; re-rolls 1's to hit
Inspire with Faith; all nearby friendly BT have Crusader.

EDIT: Tau don't have any flyer in their codex either, though they do have access to Forgeworld.

Aryllon
25-11-2012, 01:02
Yeah, I thought they could use some Forgeworld flyer, but this is the text:
"The pilots of the Black Templar chapter hail from the same origins as any codex chapter. In combat though the zeal of their brethren inevitably spills over to the Techmarine pilot".
Challenge the Heretic; better at dogfighting
Cleanse the Heretic; re-rolls 1's to hit
Inspire with Faith; all nearby friendly BT have Crusader.

EDIT: Tau don't have any flyer in their codex either, though they do have access to Forgeworld.

So doesn't this imply that there must be an army update in the offering?

Sildani
25-11-2012, 02:12
Or a new FAQ.

Formerly Wu
25-11-2012, 02:55
The rules for flyers gives you dogfighting and rules for advanced manouvers, as well as Fighter Aces.
Well, GW just earned my money.

Herzlos
26-11-2012, 11:26
There is some more info in the WD.

For the Crusade of Fire, there are strategic objectives and Grand Warlord traits, with the Servants of Decay and Crusade of fire traits shown (I wont even try to read the small text though). You can play as a team of players.

The rules for flyers gives you dogfighting and rules for advanced manouvers, as well as Fighter Aces.
Fighter Aces is kinda pricy and gives you an ability rolled on a D3. You can read the effects for IG (+1 front AV lol), Tau, Orks, BT and Necrons (Re-roll 1's to hit... all your current fliers have twinlinked weapon necrons...)
There are effects that applies to nearby infantry also, (IG can make nearby IG fearless, orks Idol of Gork gives 6+ FNP and Necrons have a resurrection orb so it is not pure aircraft fighting.

Arena of death includes rules to gain the adulation of the crowd and surviving captivity. It also uses manouver cards. No idea how they work.

EDIT: The army shot of an Imperial Fist army shows marines with... Boarding shields I think they are called? The forgeworld thing.

That'd have been handy if White Dwarf was released before it sold out. I'm sure it'll be ok as the stores will have stacks of them, right?

Why do GW have to make it so hard for us to give them money? :p

IcedCrow
26-11-2012, 13:24
I feel that. I almost missed Blood on the Badlands. I learned about it on accident and when I did learn about it it had already sold out on advanced order. I had to comb the city on release day and there was all of *two* copies available out of four stores (three of the four stores hadn't even heard of it).

MagicHat
26-11-2012, 14:07
Still availible in Sweden. My gaming club will probably buy it in anyway, so there is little reason for me to do it.

dire_squirrel
27-11-2012, 02:48
I pre-ordered it because I love decent campaigns. I just get fed up of most being either heavy on the book keeping or too influnced by map tiles. This seems more on my wave length.

The problem is that you're buying it blind. There should be more info on this book and the idea of being so limited edition seems somewhat silly.

Royals
27-11-2012, 13:08
I am really looking forward to participating in this campaign. This is the first time I will have a 100% assembled and painted force that can participate. I don't know if any of you read the article in White Dwarf (at least I think it was White Dwarf) showcasing a guys Empire Army who converted a lot of his miniatures to show all of the different campaigns they had been a part of. This is something I would love to carry over to my Space Marines.

Aryllon
27-11-2012, 17:34
It's still available in UK too. Ah what the heck, I'm gonna buy it now. At the very least it will be a good read & have some army projects to steal good ideas from :shifty:

gilljoy
29-11-2012, 13:20
Just got my dispatch email so seems like there sending them out from the UK now

Wyrmwood
29-11-2012, 14:03
Yeah, my copy was dispatched today too. I'm looking forward to actually seeing the contents.

Deamon-forge
29-11-2012, 17:09
got my email also. now just have to wait for the doorbell to ring, and knowing my luck i be out lol.

dblaz3r
29-11-2012, 23:32
Damn it I waited too long and now both GW Aus and GW NZ are sold out :(
Hopefully they have some copies at the local, better get in early just so I don't miss the chance.

Commissar Merces
30-11-2012, 22:07
Really excited about picking this bad boy up tonight. Anyone have theirs yet?

Wyrmwood
30-11-2012, 22:20
Not yet. I'm guessing my copy will either arrive on Saturday or Monday.

Commissar Merces
30-11-2012, 22:26
I am shocked no one else has gotten theirs yet. I may have to post pics and a review when I get home lol.

Chapters Unwritten
30-11-2012, 22:35
I'd really like some information on the mechanics, as it directly affects whether I will be behaving my club run one or not.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Wyrmwood
30-11-2012, 23:38
I am shocked no one else has gotten theirs yet. I may have to post pics and a review when I get home lol.
Please do. ;) Well, a review at least.

DoctorTom
01-12-2012, 00:02
The local Hobby Town actually got in two copies. I was surprised given that it had sold out online. (I claimed one, and I think I know who's claiming the other copy - he'll be working there tomorrow and see it).

Commissar Merces
01-12-2012, 05:48
Before I actually go into my overall feelings about the book, let me actually get into the meat of it.

1. There is no new artwork. All artwork used in the book is from the chaos codex or the 6th ed main rulebook

2. With no warning, it appears that using this book really only works to the full effect if you have planetary empire... you know... something that would've been nice to know. In addition, you will need the planetstrike and other expansions to play some of the scenarios if you want to use this book effectively and to its max potential.

3. The writing is pathetic. I mean really really pathetic.

pg 10: "Still, the planet is still laden with resources, including endless fertile planes, and it symbolically the capital, if not in reality."

pg 18: "Entire sectors of space can be cut off from Imperial rule, descending in chaos and anarchy until one day the warp storm receded and the Imperium can reclaim its world once more."

pg 18: "...And no one could've predicted its coming. Except, that was not entirely true. Those who knew what to look for could, with hindsight, recognize the warning signs...And then there were those that knew exactly what would happen because it was they that caused it."

Junkatta (forge world)
Alfrost (frozen world)
Unctuous (Sticky demon planet)

Not really creative names...

4. The actual rules seem very very poorly explained. This maybe because of my lack of experience playing planetary empire... but something really seemed missing from the directions.

5. the scenarios are very cool, but the flyers one in particular leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion

6. The Story of the gamers was downright dumb as nails. These pages should've been taken out as all the armies are space marines (or chaos) with the exception of 1. This was hideously disappointing for me as a reader, as I was looking forward to seeing different factions battle it out... alas... not only was there a severe lack of diversity, but the "battle summaries" were no more than a paragraph.

I know I have a bit of a reputation around here has being a buzz kill and a negative nancy, but this is really a MASSIVE disappointment to me. GW had a real opportunity here to make something as intriguing as the Eye of Terror book and they totally screwed the pooch. For a company that is pushing the narrative campaign angle, they really failed to deliver here.

Boy I hope I am just cranky or something but I got a serious case of buyer remorse.

Archibald_TK
01-12-2012, 07:04
Boy I hope I am just cranky or something but I got a serious case of buyer remorse.
I've yet to read the book, so I can't comment myself. But if your feeling end up being shared by many other people, it will just show how GW position was smart with that book. Despite all of the people who were angry at the way that release was handled, by telling people about the book at the last moment, by being unclear about its content and by making it a limited edition that incited panic buys, they ensured they would sell it to people who would not have bought it if they had the time to check it on the store's shelves.
They expanded their customers from "People who like that kind of books" to "People who like that kind of book and those who would not risk missing a book they could maybe like". Impulse buys FTW!

nosebiter
01-12-2012, 07:13
Before I actually go into my overall feelings about the book, let me actually get into the meat of it.

1. There is no new artwork. All artwork used in the book is from the chaos codex or the 6th ed main rulebook

2. With no warning, it appears that using this book really only works to the full effect if you have planetary empire... you know... something that would've been nice to know. In addition, you will need the planetstrike and other expansions to play some of the scenarios if you want to use this book effectively and to its max potential.

3. The writing is pathetic. I mean really really pathetic.

pg 10: "Still, the planet is still laden with resources, including endless fertile planes, and it symbolically the capital, if not in reality."

pg 18: "Entire sectors of space can be cut off from Imperial rule, descending in chaos and anarchy until one day the warp storm receded and the Imperium can reclaim its world once more."

pg 18: "...And no one could've predicted its coming. Except, that was not entirely true. Those who knew what to look for could, with hindsight, recognize the warning signs...And then there were those that knew exactly what would happen because it was they that caused it."

Junkatta (forge world)
Alfrost (frozen world)
Unctuous (Sticky demon planet)

Not really creative names...

4. The actual rules seem very very poorly explained. This maybe because of my lack of experience playing planetary empire... but something really seemed missing from the directions.

5. the scenarios are very cool, but the flyers one in particular leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion

6. The Story of the gamers was downright dumb as nails. These pages should've been taken out as all the armies are space marines (or chaos) with the exception of 1. This was hideously disappointing for me as a reader, as I was looking forward to seeing different factions battle it out... alas... not only was there a severe lack of diversity, but the "battle summaries" were no more than a paragraph.

I know I have a bit of a reputation around here has being a buzz kill and a negative nancy, but this is really a MASSIVE disappointment to me. GW had a real opportunity here to make something as intriguing as the Eye of Terror book and they totally screwed the pooch. For a company that is pushing the narrative campaign angle, they really failed to deliver here.

Boy I hope I am just cranky or something but I got a serious case of buyer remorse.

I just knew this book would suck. Tyvm for proving yet again that GW cant get their act together.

Kendo
01-12-2012, 09:05
I had a heck of a time trying to figure out how they tied in the use of the empire tiles to the actual missions. I didn't see movement tables or campaign events, or anything that was campaign 101. I got a couple ideas for campaigns from flipping through it, but it is no General's Compendium. Not by a long shot.
If you have nothing better to spend your money on and you are a GW collector, pick it up. There is nothing in here that the most unimaginative player could not replicate in a couple hours and a few glasses of their favourite beverage.

Valorel
01-12-2012, 09:08
Erf... You make me regret buying it even before receiving it ^^

How are the flyer and arena rules? They suck too? :s

Polaria
01-12-2012, 09:54
Okay, after a quick look at the book I'm ready to write a little review.

Firstly, most of the book is campaign fluff/campaign stuff plus a lots of pictures of the studio armies. The bad thing is that eight out of ten studio armies are Marines. Kinda explains a lot on the state of the hobby though...

The campaign is divided into three parts and each part has one special scenario: One is Apocalypse, one is Void/Zero-G and one is fighting inside Bunker complex. Basically each special scenario has a few rules for the new environment, but other than that they are your average missions.

The last part of the book has three sections: Deamon Worlds, Burning Skies and Arena. Deamon Worlds is basically a new version of the WD Death Worlds hazard tables with a few new twists (possession counters) and a few army specific rules (like for example GK can't be possessed). Burning Skies is the part that seems good. Its basically an extra set of rules you can paste into any normal game and comes to effect only when two Fliers want to kill each other. It also has Ace upgrades which are basically that you can pay extra 50 pts or so for a random ability. Each codex has its own tables and some of the abilities might actually be worth it. It looked solid.

The Arena rules... Uh... Well... The less I say the better. I hated them but basically that's my opinion. Its basically a mini-card game that is used to add more depth to close combat phase. Some might like it. I didn't.

konate
01-12-2012, 10:19
There are no rules for Dark Eldar Aces.:wtf:

Oversight? Or, intentional?

Deamon-forge
01-12-2012, 10:48
mine not come, so be on monday prob but i got it as it looked nice and i prob read once and add to the other stack of books i own.

Polaria
01-12-2012, 11:05
There are no rules for Dark Eldar Aces.:wtf:

Oversight? Or, intentional?

Well, the Black Templars have Ace rules but no pilots to use them with while Dark Eldar and Chaos has pilots but no Aces. Daemons and Tyranids don't even exist for purposes of Burning Skies. Oh, and Sisters have been totally squatted from the book...

Shibboleth
01-12-2012, 11:13
It appears the combination of total-rumour-lockdown and Limited Edition product releases are a perfect moneymaker for GW.
If they can achieve total sellout of a product in the preorder phase before anyone can even review it then there is no need for quality control...

prowla
01-12-2012, 11:34
Erf... You make me regret buying it even before receiving it ^^


No worries, it's a rare limited edition book so you can always sell it on eBay :p

Commissar Merces
01-12-2012, 12:21
After sleeping on it (for a couple of hours cause my damn cat won't leave me the hell alone) I have to say I am extremely distressed by this book. The more I think about it, the more I hate it and the more I am thinking about returning it on the pretense of false advertisement. Below is GW's blurb on their product, posted on their website:

"Crusade of Fire is a campaign system for Warhammer 40,000 that enables you to join the campaign to control the Corvus Sub-sector. Whether you choose to join the Crusade of Fire itself, the foul Servants of Ruin or the bloodthirsty Prophets of War, the fate of the sub-sector lies in your hands.

This 96-page, full-colour hardcover book features fantastic artwork and a host of dynamic new rules. As well as the campaign system itself, the book contains rules that can be used in any Warhammer 40,000 game, from massive multi-player scenarios fought in low-gravity environments or in bunkers deep below the ground, to expanded rules for Flyers. It also features rules for playing games in the gladiatorial arenas of Commorragh as well as for fighting battles on the surface of a Daemon World.

Crusade of Fire also features the story of nine hobbyists as they play through the campaign, including detailed battle reports, fantastic army showcases and turn-by-turn accounts of their conquest."

Nowhere in there does it say you need planetstrike, apoc., or planetary empire to actually get the most out of this book. The detailed battle reports is a complete lie as well as their "turn-by-turn accounts" as they don't literally mean game turn they mean Crusade of Fire turn. They don't show you maps of the actual battles, rather, they have a paragraph or two telling you what happened in each game (usually 4-6 sentences) a side caption, and a map of the gains and losses... each Crusade of Fire turn. If you enjoy the current Battle Reports supplied by white dwarf, this book is for you. If you are a cranky old man of 24 or older and remember the old white dwarf battle reports and miss them, this book is NOT for you.

Some people are going to tell me "but you don't need planetstrike or apoc" well you kind of do as the only way to jump around planets is to play planetstrike games and one of the scenarios presented says

pg 62 "Much of this scenario is based on the Apocalypse Mission as presented in Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse. Rather than repeat the information presented there, this scenario refers you to apocalypse instead. If in doubt about a rule or situation, assume that the rules presented in Apocalypse are used."

The very first words used in the campaign rules are

pg 6 "Crusade of Fire uses a variant set of Planetary Empire rules based on eight smaller world maps, each representing the main planets in the sector"

I will let you interpret those as you will. The actual amount of campaign rules (not missions specific) is a generous 6 pages long. 26 pages of the book are dedicated to recapping/pictures of the nine guys playing their campaign. Another 11 pages are dedicated to army showcasing and players strutting about like chickens about how their army is awesome. Yes you have a very cool army, but most of us can't afford 9 dreadnoughts. I do not understand the reasoning for their being 8 out of 9 space marines armies, especially when the book squawked about TENS OF THOUSANDS of guardsmen being present in this campaign. At least give me a guard and chaos demons army for goodness sake.

Passed the campaign part is 20 pages of special mission scenarios where the sisters of battle have totally been left out... moving on much of this is simply special moves for each army flyers and the arena of death. Neither of these things got my very excited, but got me thinking on how I could do better than them at creating rules for flyers. I am sorry but the constant use of if your flyer is 12 inches away from a friendly unit, they become fearless due to being inspired by it" gets old after the first 3 entries.

I hope I have not been too cynical, I am trying to be fair. It is very obvious to me that this was a very half baked effort on the GW staff's part. The old adage of this is a template for you to do your own campaign! does not resonate with me after I laid down $41 on something that was poorly constructed and horribly crafted. If anything, this book has made me less enthused about doing a 40k campaign. If this post makes me a cranky git, fine I am a cranky git, but I got a feeling there are going to be a lot of them around here once people start opening their books.

Tastyfish
01-12-2012, 13:57
Any chance you could give us a table of contents, think I've grown quite used to FW's approach of using that as a way of showing you what's in the book.

Ghal Maraz
01-12-2012, 14:09
Ughh.
The more I hear of it, the more it reminds me of Blood in the Badlands.
Which is not a good thing at all, in my eyes...

Darnok
01-12-2012, 14:30
Ughh.
The more I hear of it, the more it reminds me of Blood in the Badlands.
Which is not a good thing at all, in my eyes...

But a very good one in mine. Can't wait to get my copy now! :)

Brotheroracle
01-12-2012, 14:32
It sounds worse then blood in the badlands.

Commissar Merces
01-12-2012, 14:42
Here is table of contents.

Introduction 3-6

Campaign rules 6-14

Crusade of Fire 15-25 (background on the campaign)

Armies of Conflict 26-37 (army showcase)

The Campaign 38-39 (start of the campaign)

Campaign turn one 40-49 (first turn of the campaign, reads like a longer white dwarf batrep)

Campaign turn two 50-59

Campaign turn three 60-69

Burning Skies scenario 70-84 (flyer scenario)

Daemon Worlds 84-89 (rules for daemon world scenarios)

Arena of Death 90-95

Fable
01-12-2012, 14:46
It sounds like much in the same way that the bikes have been made to have overlapping rules the Eldar flyer Ace would apply to Dark Eldar as well.

For Chaos not having ace rules... their flyer doesn't have a conventional pilot in the same way that Daemon and Tyranid flying units do not have conventional pilots. The book doesn't seem geared towards FW inclusion as much as it does forward compatibility with codex units.

Whitetip
01-12-2012, 15:07
Well this all sounds pretty ominous. I was looking forward to getting my copy tonight but now? Not so much. To be honest the rules dont really matter to me but the background and artwork do and, by all accounts, they're duff as well. Fingers crossed.

Kendo
01-12-2012, 16:23
So I only flipped through the book and will go have a closer look today, but if the book refers to planetary empires for rules, we are in real trouble. Those "rules" are basically two pages long and again, make no mention of moving forces between tiles or events, and don't even cover what all of the tiles could mean. Le sigh, maybe if one cobbles together planetary empires, planet strike, this book, and a healthy dose of individual creativity, one could approximate a reasonable campaign.

dire_squirrel
01-12-2012, 16:24
I was hoping my copy would arrive today but sadly not. Fingers crossed for monday.

It is dissapointing to read that they haven't really bothered to give you a proper campaign system in this book. For some reason they can do it for Fantasy but not 40K? Odd. But at the end of the day, it is a (expensive) source of ideas that might help others create their own campaign.

IcedCrow
01-12-2012, 16:50
as I thought, it was pretty much exactly like Blood in the Badlands. The blurb on the site talked about planetary empires so I knew about that already. In short the book is everything I knew it would be. And that's fine because that's what I needed... a book of ideas to lift for my own campaigns.

=) which is exactly what I use Badlands for.

It is basically a General's Compendium for using Planetary Empires tiles and some rules that the GW guys used for their own campaign... which is exactly what Blood on the Badlands was.

Ranzimus
01-12-2012, 18:06
I feel badly for those who will not get it or who may need to work extra hard to find it. But, I found it on GW's site under advance orders, quite a while ago. I am in my 40's and have not relied upon print media of any sort for anything in the last ten years. Those waiting for white Dwarf for information will always be the last to know. Check the site a couple times a week. It takes 30 seconds to see if there is anything interesting there. :)

stevegill
02-12-2012, 01:21
Well, the Black Templars have Ace rules but no pilots to use them with while Dark Eldar and Chaos has pilots but no Aces. Daemons and Tyranids don't even exist for purposes of Burning Skies. Oh, and Sisters have been totally squatted from the book...

The very first thing I noticed was the absence of Sisters from the book when pretty much everyone else was mentioned. I didn't notice Daemons and Tyranids were also missing so am not so worried now - thanks :yes:

kardos
02-12-2012, 03:38
I purchased the book at my friends comic store earlier today. At first i was kinda disappointed, but the more my friends and i looked through it the happier i was. Not that we have ever needed anything to start a campaign, but the book gave us some great inspiration for a new one!

Azzy
02-12-2012, 04:30
Well, the Black Templars have Ace rules but no pilots to use them with while Dark Eldar and Chaos has pilots but no Aces.
That's odd.


Daemons and Tyranids don't even exist for purposes of Burning Skies.
Unsurprising. I mean, really, would have killed them to integrate FMC with fliers?


Oh, and Sisters have been totally squatted from the book...

I'm surprised. Oh, look how incredibly surprised I am. I'm so utterly surprised that I didn't have a chance to actually be surprised. *facepalm*

Goddammit, GW, if you can't figure out what to do with the SoB, then just let me write the damned codex (I'll even do it without pay, just print the danmed thing and make with the plastic kits!).

IcedCrow
02-12-2012, 06:48
Its a recap of an in studio campaign and how they ran it... If nobody ran sisters of battle, which in and of itself is common, why would their rules bother with it?

Azzy
02-12-2012, 07:52
Its a recap of an in studio campaign and how they ran it... If nobody ran sisters of battle, which in and of itself is common, why would their rules bother with it?

As opposed to the other non Space Marine/Chaos armies that got rules? Tired excuses are tired.

Zywus
02-12-2012, 07:53
Well, apparently almost everyone ran some kind of marines and still there are rules for tau and ork pilots etc. So there are rules for other armies as well. Just not SoB

Polaria
02-12-2012, 08:50
That's odd.

In any other book it would be odd. However, this one is so full of typos and odd mistakes that if they have used a proofreader at all then the proofreader was either Google Translator or a 7 month old chimp...



I'm surprised. Oh, look how incredibly surprised I am. I'm so utterly surprised that I didn't have a chance to actually be surprised. *facepalm*

Goddammit, GW, if you can't figure out what to do with the SoB, then just let me write the damned codex (I'll even do it without pay, just print the danmed thing and make with the plastic kits!).

Don't worry. If this book is anything to judge by, you are overqualified for them. Look, a complete sentence without a typo.

Commissar Merces
02-12-2012, 14:47
What really has my goat more than anything is how poorly the book is written along with how many other GW books are required to play this thing out.

They also provide you only 5 different scenarios to use. I thought this book would've had at least double that. There are also very few small mission games (excluding arena of death which is a very silly scenario in itself). I was looking forward to new and improved kill team rules or something along those lines. It also doesn't help that all the armies features are space marines and chaos space marines with the exception of Kelly's dark eldar.

The background section of the book is littered with unacceptable typos and an adolescent effort at creating this universe... At best. Alfrost? Junkatta? Unctious? Anathrax the Foetid? Rex? While GW may not be great at names sometimes, this is really a new low in my opinion.

What they did get right is the zero gravity mission which was the highlight of this book for me.

Overall I would say I am just disappointed. So much potential and so little actually accomplished. I may return mine or sell it.

megatrons2nd
02-12-2012, 15:38
Sounds like what I said before the book came out.

Sami
02-12-2012, 16:07
Glad I read this thread; cancelled my order for it.

IcedCrow
02-12-2012, 16:15
As opposed to the other non Space Marine/Chaos armies that got rules? Tired excuses are tired.

Well out of the 50 or so guys I know and play with on a fairly regular basis, none of them have sisters of battle. So at least for my group of people, this is not an issue. If someone wanted to play sisters of battle, it would take probably about 20 minutes to come up with something for them.

If any of you were familiar with what Blood on the Badlands was, this should not have been a surprise at all, as again it is exactly what Blood on the Badlands was, only for 40k. It is an idea book. For as much slagging as Blood on the Badlands gets, I have it and have used it and have gotten more than my money out of it. As I will with this. If you are looking for a complete campaign system with rules for everything under the sun, I am doubting very much you will see GW push this. That's more in line with Forgeworld's Imperial Armor books.

corps
02-12-2012, 18:03
no aces rules for the sista so i supose that when you use a avenger you chose the imperial guard player table, no tyanids table and i can see wich table to choose instead, same for deamons. no dark eldar ace table so they choose the eldar ? is the book is finish ?

dawnofthedead
02-12-2012, 18:24
The book is pretty horrible. I know it is supposed to be an idea/skeletal system for this campaign but I really don't understand why this wasn't in the white dwarf. The content is not worth $40 in my opinion. Also why can't GW come out with a really good book for running campaigns. It wouldn't be that hard. I bet most of us on this forum could do a better job than GW has. Just my two cents.

Kendo
02-12-2012, 18:31
I have had a bit more of a chance to review this book and have a bit more to say.
I agree with the general concensus regarding the quality of the writing. In that regard the book felt like something one of the guys wrote up in an afternoon or two without any editorial oversight. I also concur with the amateurish and superficial way in which the setting was developed. It was so lacking in originality that cut and pasting from the main rule book would probably have been better and resulted in fewer grammatical errors.
I also think it was a bit disingenuous of GW not to mention on the cover or the sales information that owning planetary empires, apocalypse, cities of death, and planet strike would be useful to have as they are all referenced in the book.
On the plus, I think the dog fighting rules are interesting. The planetary empire rules are much improved and one hundred times more useful than the pamphlet they tried selling us before (100*0=0?). I may actually use these for ideas.
The missions were hit and miss. The zero g missions was good, but seemed to allude to objectives not spelled out in the scenario, like the big guns; why were these so hotly contested? I thought they could have done a lot more with the bunker mission, like maybe using all of the zone mortalis rules, or at least more of them since forgeworld has freely published them anyways.

In summary, there were a few hidden gems in this book. However those gems were burried deep beneath a tragic distain for the English language and a general disrespect for creative and quality control. This could have been soooo much better with a bit more effort and organization.

IcedCrow
02-12-2012, 20:28
They mentioned in the advanced order that it used planetary empires and planet strike. I assumed having cities of death and apocalypse would also be useful.

Faeslayer
02-12-2012, 21:59
They mentioned in the advanced order that it used planetary empires and planet strike. I assumed having cities of death and apocalypse would also be useful.

Where did they say this? I'm looking at the US site's catalog listing and it doesn't mention any of these.

Thuggrim
02-12-2012, 22:13
It appears the combination of total-rumour-lockdown and Limited Edition product releases are a perfect moneymaker for GW.
If they can achieve total sellout of a product in the preorder phase before anyone can even review it then there is no need for quality control...

THey have a reasonable returns policy :)

Azzy
02-12-2012, 22:17
Well out of the 50 or so guys I know and play with on a fairly regular basis, none of them have sisters of battle. Don't confuse the effect for the cause. Again, tire excuses are tired.

Thuggrim
02-12-2012, 22:18
Goddammit, GW, if you can't figure out what to do with the SoB, then just let me write the damned codex (I'll even do it without pay, just print the danmed thing and make with the plastic kits!).

No way that would happen, you might produce a well playtested and balanced product with multiple viable builds - that is the GW sign of the apocalypse ;)

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 00:17
Where did they say this? I'm looking at the US site's catalog listing and it doesn't mention any of these.

It said it the day it came out. I even posted somewhere in one of the threads that it said it was going to be using Planetary Empires and Planetstrike and that I thought that meant it would be like Badlands, which used the fantasy tiles.

Perhaps it was from a picture of the interior of the book instead of the blurb. Regardless it was from their website where I read it.

Faeslayer
03-12-2012, 00:48
I bought it the day it was put up for order, and it said nothing of the sort in the online store listing, or honestly I wouldn't have purchased it.

Commissar Merces
03-12-2012, 01:27
Unless there was a picture of the book that you saw that in, there was nothing on their website upon its release that would suggest an expansion to PE or that you would need the other books.

Regardless, I returned mine today and got models instead. I showed the manager the erroneous typos and lack of details about the product on the GW site. He agreed that the product was flawed. I doubt I am the last.

BigHammer
03-12-2012, 01:41
IMHO it's a nice book. Some fun rules, some interesting background, some dodgy language, but overall a good read. To be honest, though, I reckon it's worth the price point just to see Phil Kelly's Dark Eldar army. Utterly gorgeous...

Tastyfish
03-12-2012, 02:20
How's the dogfighting work, is there anything that'd grant an advantage to something like an interceptor compared to a transport?

Kendo
03-12-2012, 03:12
Dog fights are thee rounds of combat. Attacker has three options and defenders have three options. There is a grid to compare the results. Nothing I saw gave any advantage based on the kind of plane.

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 03:47
I bought it the day it was put up for order, and it said nothing of the sort in the online store listing, or honestly I wouldn't have purchased it.

There was something on there that caused me to post about it using the tiles back around the 16th. Unless I was having a precognitive moment.

Chapters Unwritten
03-12-2012, 04:08
, I was pretty disappointed in the book. I thought it was going to be more like bad lands, which had a very good system. The idea of having individual armies and they're having their own characters was a very good idea that adds a lot of fun. They also made much better use of the map. This was literally, just find a guy and put a peg in the board.

The actual campaign rules were only 2 pages!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Tastyfish
03-12-2012, 04:38
Dog fights are thee rounds of combat. Attacker has three options and defenders have three options. There is a grid to compare the results. Nothing I saw gave any advantage based on the kind of plane.

So a bit of paper scissor's stone championships? Sure there was a jousting game using similar mechanics - risk a late shot for a more likely kill, or score points early and often sort of thing.
Probably best this isn't the fix to flyers (Though it's pretty simple), but AV13 Vendettas make me feel wrong inside.

Battleworthy Arts
03-12-2012, 05:24
I love all the flying rules. What a neat element to add to the game.

KimikoPT
03-12-2012, 11:09
I'm thinking of organizing a league or campaign on my LGS. Will this book be a good help for that?

MagicHat
03-12-2012, 12:28
There was something on there that caused me to post about it using the tiles back around the 16th. Unless I was having a precognitive moment.

You said you expected it too use the planetary Empires the 21/11.
They don't mention it in the advance order or in any blog post.
They do say that you can combine it with planetary empires in the WD, not sure about the newsletter as I have deleted it.

I had pretty low expectations, so I am not that surprised.

Herzlos
03-12-2012, 12:29
I'm thinking of organizing a league or campaign on my LGS. Will this book be a good help for that?

Not really. It's got a few new rules for stuff (more like side-games), but in terms of campaign play it lacks information on well, everything. You also need to buy Planetary Empires, which also contains very little in the way of rules.

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 13:16
You said you expected it too use the planetary Empires the 21/11.
They don't mention it in the advance order or in any blog post.
They do say that you can combine it with planetary empires in the WD, not sure about the newsletter as I have deleted it.

I had pretty low expectations, so I am not that surprised.

That's what it was thank you! It was the newsletter! It said you could combine it with planetary empires. I guess that's not the same as having it on the blurb on the store as the only reason I read the newsletter was because a buddy of mine said there was a new campaign system coming out and told me to check it out.


Not really. It's got a few new rules for stuff (more like side-games), but in terms of campaign play it lacks information on well, everything. You also need to buy Planetary Empires, which also contains very little in the way of rules.

You don't need to buy planetary empires. You can join it up with planetary empires but it is not required, no more than the fantasy tiles were required for badlands if you don't want to. I just ran an entire 6 month campaign with Badlands without using a single tile.

You can run a league or campaign with this book. It will just require you to do some work to make it happen.

What I did with badlands was:

Preseason - May 2012 - had 3 games from the core book representing the armies coming down
Spring Season (June to mid July) - 2 games from the book, then the top players played the special spring scenarios and got to keep the items that they win from them
Summer Season (Mid July to end of September) - 2 games from the book, then the top players played the special summer scenarios
Fall Season - (October to mid November) 2 games from the book, then top players played the special fall scenarios

This had everyone at 9 games (those that weren't ranked high enough still played just not the special scenarios)
Top 8 players went to the playoffs which were the winter season.

(November - December 2012)
Single Elimination
First round - play out of the core book
Second round - Play the floating rocks scenario
Finals round - Play the final siege

Required some tweaking. I'm going to be borrowing elements from this book in the campaign / league I'm currently running right now for 40k. Again, not a single tile needs used except I do have some that I will be using to represent the progress of the factions but that is not needed.

See my signatures for the results and progress of either. If you'd like ideas or what not on your own league / campaign I'm more than happy to have ideas bounced off of.

FerociousBeast
03-12-2012, 13:53
You shouldn't have to work that hard to make a $40 book work on its own.

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 14:00
You shouldn't have to work that hard to make a $40 book work on its own.

I never use any book on its own. It's a book full of ideas and scenarios and more ideas. That alone is worth more to me. If it had been in white dwarf it would have been split into 4-5 articles which is having to wait 4-5 months to get the whole thing, on top of paying more for it overall, and having to lug around 4 or 5 white dwarfs everywhere instead of the one hardback book (I prefer a hardback book over 4-5 magazines).

Commissar Merces
03-12-2012, 14:13
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the white dwarf describing the book come out AFTER the product had already sold out?

I get what you're saying iced crow, but this book has precious few good ideas and is very poorly written.

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 14:23
A few of the pictures have given me some ideas on some modeling and scenarios for the Rubicon campaign I'm running now, plus a good handful of the rules that they have in there. The rest is for fun reading about how they went about the campaign. I like reading about those things as it helps me design my own. The next campaign after 40k we are doing the Forge World chaos campaign Tamarkhan which also needs some adaption to work with our league structure (and that's an $80 leather bound book :D) which is mainly story plus some army lists and then the scenarios themselves which are kind of open to your own interpretation to how the cycle should proceed.

To your question, there was an email sent out that had the notification of the book coming out which had a small section about what it entailed which discussed planetstrike and planetary empires being used as well with it. Also there was some other language White Dwarf pics that had come out that talked about it as well on the internet.

Dr Morbius
03-12-2012, 14:36
I got the book in saturday and for me ist is a great buy. It gave me exactly what I was expedting. To be honest I didn't read the fluff, as i find the individuell battle fluff never interessting.

But the flyer rules are ace. The rules for fighting in daemonworlds will certainly be used, once we have build some terrain for it. And the missions also looked very much like fun. Definitly an improvement since the battlemission book. These ones wie actually never even bothered to play.

So to anybody who looks for some fun rules and great ideas, this book is certainly worth the money.

IncrediSteve
03-12-2012, 19:39
My normal LGS sold out of all 10 of their copies quickly, but I was visiting a smaller one and they had a copy right out on the shelf, so I went ahead and snatched it despite hearing poor impressions here on Warseer.

Even if it IS bad, I'm buying it anyway, because this is something I want GW to do more of. Same thing with Dreadfleet. I still haven''t taken it out of the box, but I want to send GW the message that products besides Spehss Mahreins are viable. I'm of the pipe-dreaming sort longs for a day when GW revives Specialist Games...

Deamon-forge
03-12-2012, 19:46
got mine in post this morning had a quick look and added to the other books in the cabinet to gather dust.

wyvirn
03-12-2012, 21:37
You shouldn't have to work that hard to make a $40 book work on its own.


I fully agree, you can extrapolate a good deal from the scraps they give you, and can fill in the rest with a little imagination. It wouldn't be a horrible deal if it were $20, but as is, especially with the hard cover, it feels like a polished ****.

IcedCrow
03-12-2012, 21:48
I firmly believe if the book had been leather bound with full color paintings within, the world's greatest story, and the world's greatest campaign system ever, it would be slagged online for a variety of reasons lol

Whitetip
03-12-2012, 22:32
Well they're going for a pretty penny on ebay if people aren't happy with it...

Gaargod
04-12-2012, 02:38
I firmly believe if the book had been leather bound with full color paintings within, the world's greatest story, and the world's greatest campaign system ever, it would be slagged online for a variety of reasons lol

You missed (one of the) most important ones - rules (unless that was campaign system - something I'd class differently, as that should really just be how to run a campaign, not the scenarios etc. IMHO at least).

But to be fair, even whineseer aren't that bad. Take the Dark Eldar book - sure, there were a few whines (oh noes, poison everywhere!) and more legitimate complaints (what in the 7 hells do you expect me to do with the gorgeous mandrake models Phil? Cos they sure aren't going on the table with their rules), but on the whole, even fricking whineseer liked it.


But from what I can tell, this book fails in... well, every single one of the important aspects. Definitely will not be looking for a copy on ebay.

Warrior
04-12-2012, 06:15
I bought this off the shelf at a GW store today. Basically it's a hardcover White Dwarf that is completely about Warhammer 40,000 with no advertisments. I quite like it to be honest. I like the sense of humour in the campaign reports and the photographs are really nice. I'm looking forward to reading this in detail when I get home from work today, and I'm now keen to talk to my friends about getting some planetary empire tiles and starting a campaign of our own! I've already started sketching the star system on my notepad. Hopefully my workmates will think I'm just an astronomy buff.

Royals
04-12-2012, 12:47
I bought mine from the GW here in Columbus. I like the book. It has definitely given me some good ideas. I am a little bummed that I will need to purchase the Planetstrike and Cities of Death supplements; however, this campaign is all about having fun and shouldn't be taken too seriously. That is, of course, why I play this game, to have fun.

stevegill
04-12-2012, 12:52
To be honest it's pretty much what I hoped it would be

There again I enjoyed Blood in the Badlands

Krucifus
04-12-2012, 12:54
Well it certainly looks interesting, I'll enjoy having a peek to see if there's much new artwork, but judging from the few pages GW have on their website as previews I get the feeling its going to be a lot of repeats from the Chaos dex.

Hooray! :( I nailed it... Returned mine today, it felt like reading unedited fan-fiction. Everything in here should have been in White Dwarf, at least then they might have spell-checked it.

mallymoocow
04-12-2012, 12:57
Has anyone played the arena of death part?

Can you give us an idea what it is like, is it any fun?

Herzlos
04-12-2012, 13:07
I firmly believe if the book had been leather bound with full color paintings within, the world's greatest story, and the world's greatest campaign system ever, it would be slagged online for a variety of reasons lol

If it contained enough rules to count as a campaign system, I'd have bought it. WD used to have more indepth campaign rules, and WI ran something about campaigns recently with more content. I'm not slagging it off because it's from GW, I'm slagging it off because it's not (a) what it claims to be and (b) worth what they ask for it. Had it been split over a couple of WD issues I'd be singing it's praises.

IcedCrow
04-12-2012, 13:20
I"m glad it wasn't in white dwarf. It would have needed strung out over 4 or 5 issues so would have had to wait 4-5 months to get the whole thing, plus then I'd have to keep and carry around 4-5 magazines.

I started collecting white dwarf with issue 198. There have been several campaigns issued since then... none were that good except for the Lustria add on for fantasy back in the day, and the expansion to Mighty Empires they put out (back when Mighty Empires existed, I have my own version I have adapted over the years)

Commissar Merces
04-12-2012, 13:28
I can't really speak for anyone else here, but the reason I returned my copy and have been bashing it are three fold:

1. Lack of editing
2. Lack of effort put into campaign mechanics/zero details with very few useable scenarios
3. Lack of a rich universe. This is warhammer 40k, we all play this game because we love the world it is set it. This book detracts from that world fluff wise.

The eye of terror campaign book, in contrast, had original artwork, faction specific army lists, and a plethora of fluff that was well though out and engaging. While it didn't have the bells and whistles of new scenarios or fancy pictures with a hard cover, it was half the price and twice as enjoyable in my opinion. I feel the same way about their planet strike, cities of death, and occasionally battle mission books. Maybe this is apples to oranges, but I just feel like the effort wasnt put into Crusade of fire. It just felt like a less edited white dwarf

Daniel36
04-12-2012, 13:44
I firmly believe if the book had been leather bound with full color paintings within, the world's greatest story, and the world's greatest campaign system ever, it would be slagged online for a variety of reasons lol
Yeah, and still only a very small percentage of the people who bought the book would actually... you know... PLAY the campaign.

IcedCrow
04-12-2012, 14:14
Yeah, and still only a very small percentage of the people who bought the book would actually... you know... PLAY the campaign.

This is very true.

StraightSilver
04-12-2012, 14:34
This might be the wrong place to ask, but bought the book on Saturday, had a look at the new flyer rules and can't seem to find any Fighter Aces rules for Dark Eldar?

Did I miss them, do they not get them or do they just use Eldar ones?

IcedCrow
04-12-2012, 14:45
I'd say if they are missing then just use Eldar rules.

Chapters Unwritten
04-12-2012, 15:53
Yeah, and still only a very small percentage of the people who bought the book would actually... you know... PLAY the campaign.

Honestly there really aren't many campaign rules to use in it. You basically fight whoever you want and take a tile when you win. Badlands was so much better than this systematically. I don't know why they didn't port similar ideas... Instead it is this lifeless mess.

Worse, we now see that two of our codex authors have been playing this for two months instead of making new stuff!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Rogue Star
04-12-2012, 16:09
I"m glad it wasn't in white dwarf. It would have needed strung out over 4 or 5 issues

Nah, if you cut out the pictures and all the other waffle, the book basically amounted to something like 12 pages of rules. You can do that in two WDs (6 pages per issue), or one issue if returned the page count to what was advertised at it's relaunch... or just ditch one or two of the more rubbish articles... Hell you take out Jeremy Vetock and Jervis and that's 4 pages alone worth of rules. That's your entire Arena of Death cards pages covered. :p

IcedCrow
04-12-2012, 16:22
Nah, if you cut out the pictures and all the other waffle, the book basically amounted to something like 12 pages of rules. You can do that in two WDs (6 pages per issue), or one issue if returned the page count to what was advertised at it's relaunch... or just ditch one or two of the more rubbish articles... Hell you take out Jeremy Vetock and Jervis and that's 4 pages alone worth of rules. That's your entire Arena of Death cards pages covered. :p

Yes but when do they ever condense it? They would keep all of the content and string it out forever even if you only need a paragraph. That's why I'm more for the book than the white dwarf.

Daniel36
04-12-2012, 16:22
Worse, we now see that two of our codex authors have been playing this for two months instead of making new stuff!


Hehehehehhh... Fair enough.

The Decayed
04-12-2012, 17:56
Then let's just hope those Codex writers didn't get "inspired" by this awesome campaign book, and do similar stuff with their new Codexes...

Royals
04-12-2012, 18:09
I'll admit, while I like the book, the grammar and spelling is atrocious.

wyvirn
04-12-2012, 23:09
I just realized there was a nugget buried in the book, one that I'm really excited for: they encourage a GM player. It's kinda big, GW isn't just selling a 2 player, zero sum wargame, but encouraging creativity and originality, something I feel has been lacking of late.

Warrior
05-12-2012, 01:03
I just realized there was a nugget buried in the book, one that I'm really excited for: they encourage a GM player. It's kinda big, GW isn't just selling a 2 player, zero sum wargame, but encouraging creativity and originality, something I feel has been lacking of late.

A good point, I would like to see more of this in future. The system of having 2 GMs in order to share the workload and to allow the GMs to enter their own armies in the campaign was a particularly good idea as well. I had an idea to expand on this: have an equal number of planets in the system as their are players in the campaign, and each player GMs one of the planets. Each player can not play any battles on the planet they GM. That way everyone gets to have a go at both GMing and playing.

Chapters Unwritten
05-12-2012, 12:55
I just realized there was a nugget buried in the book, one that I'm really excited for: they encourage a GM player. It's kinda big, GW isn't just selling a 2 player, zero sum wargame, but encouraging creativity and originality, something I feel has been lacking of late.

I don't find this to be good at all, largely because all they did was randomly dump models onto the table and attack other players in the middle of a game. That is both annoying and lazy GMing.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

IcedCrow
05-12-2012, 13:38
I just realized there was a nugget buried in the book, one that I'm really excited for: they encourage a GM player. It's kinda big, GW isn't just selling a 2 player, zero sum wargame, but encouraging creativity and originality, something I feel has been lacking of late.

This is exactly the style of campaign I'm running (see my sig, or the thread I started in general)

Chapters Unwritten
05-12-2012, 14:19
Not exactly. Clearly yours has had a lot of work put into it, as well as a sensible scoring system. I would argue that your initial post about your campaign has more helpful tips in it than this whole book does. Where you mentioned not planning out every little detail, this book purportedly has no details. Where you mention a narrative, this book promotes a completely non-cohesive element in which different areas are infested by random models from random armies that may interfere with your army.

To add insult to injury the books later pages detail all manner of off-the-wall random rules that undoubtedly aren't even a part of the campaign. I mean, part of me knew something was off when I saw they had three factions of 9 players; how could they have an even number of opponents, etc.? That is one of the first difficult hurdles that campaigns run into and they just ran head-first into it. Not only that, but they were quite enamored with it! The impressionable youth of the game are going to emulate this and run into all manner of problems.

Sadly I bought the book to lift ideas out of, and I got so many more useful ones from Blood in the Badlands that this is pretty much literally worthless to me. Even the maps are vague! There is so much it didn't bother to cover because "Just have the GM decide!!1!" The positions of valuable tiles, for example (not that any of them really ARE valuable...bastions are only useful after the first one you hold, shield generators just make the spot uncappable via planetstrike, power generators somehow make you go faster...the whole thing seems like they basically set out to play Planetary Empires, and found it to be a worthless ****, and in turn slapped on some slapdash added bits to make it slightly more tolerable.

The campaign itself is not bad, per se`, but the book is far from full of good advice. As an advanced campaign designer myself, I see no use in the book, though if you're a newbie who happens to have 3 or 4 boxes of planetary empires tiles that you don't mind painting all completely differently it's a good entry-level campaign.

I will give them credit that two GMs are a good idea. Sharing the load of work is a solid piece of advice. In my experience playing in the campaign while running it is almost always a bad idea unless you resolve for none of it to have anything to do with your army, so I typically serve as a ringer to round out uneven teams, but it would be less necessary if there were two people.

duffybear1988
05-12-2012, 14:42
Before I actually go into my overall feelings about the book, let me actually get into the meat of it.

1. There is no new artwork. All artwork used in the book is from the chaos codex or the 6th ed main rulebook

2. With no warning, it appears that using this book really only works to the full effect if you have planetary empire... you know... something that would've been nice to know. In addition, you will need the planetstrike and other expansions to play some of the scenarios if you want to use this book effectively and to its max potential.

3. The writing is pathetic. I mean really really pathetic.

pg 10: "Still, the planet is still laden with resources, including endless fertile planes, and it symbolically the capital, if not in reality."

pg 18: "Entire sectors of space can be cut off from Imperial rule, descending in chaos and anarchy until one day the warp storm receded and the Imperium can reclaim its world once more."

pg 18: "...And no one could've predicted its coming. Except, that was not entirely true. Those who knew what to look for could, with hindsight, recognize the warning signs...And then there were those that knew exactly what would happen because it was they that caused it."

Junkatta (forge world)
Alfrost (frozen world)
Unctuous (Sticky demon planet)

Not really creative names...

4. The actual rules seem very very poorly explained. This maybe because of my lack of experience playing planetary empire... but something really seemed missing from the directions.

5. the scenarios are very cool, but the flyers one in particular leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion

6. The Story of the gamers was downright dumb as nails. These pages should've been taken out as all the armies are space marines (or chaos) with the exception of 1. This was hideously disappointing for me as a reader, as I was looking forward to seeing different factions battle it out... alas... not only was there a severe lack of diversity, but the "battle summaries" were no more than a paragraph.

I know I have a bit of a reputation around here has being a buzz kill and a negative nancy, but this is really a MASSIVE disappointment to me. GW had a real opportunity here to make something as intriguing as the Eye of Terror book and they totally screwed the pooch. For a company that is pushing the narrative campaign angle, they really failed to deliver here.

Boy I hope I am just cranky or something but I got a serious case of buyer remorse.

@ Commissar Merces

Don't get yourself down man. I always enjoy reading what you write, mostly because it echoes what I think as well 9 times out of 10.

I didn't fancy taking the risk of blind buying this because GWs track record isn't great these days, so it's good to know that I haven't missed much :D