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ashe
18-11-2012, 02:49
Hi guys i was wondering which army book is coming out next, by all the new chaos warrior models i think that they should be next in line, but with GW you never know. If there is a thread about this plz link it.

DaemonReign
18-11-2012, 05:16
DoC and WoC are next line, probably in that order too. :)

.. try the News and Rumour Section for more detailed info.

Jind_Singh
20-11-2012, 02:12
I doubt it's Warriors - I'm guessing there will be AT LEAST 3-4 months before they even see a book as they just got the White Dwarf filler!

I'd like to see Dwarfs come out - it's a long shot but they are one of the few remaining armies that can still 'break' the new magic phase with their silly access to dispel runes! And generating extra dispel die - I'd like to think that the stunties are high on the list!

Daemons - if they DID re-do their book it'd be a shame as much as they need a new book their book isn't all that old - and 8th ed put them back into their place of not being complete and utter killers on the table top.

I'd like to see:

Dwarfs
Dark Elves (THEY HAVE TO DO THESE ARROGANT BUMS SOON!! SOOO MUCH CRAP IN THEIR BOOK!)

Done and then:

Daemons of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos

But I think it's going to be the other way around sadly.

My only beef would be that the Warriors got a new book not so long ago - and it'd be a crying shame to revamp them ahead of other and older army books - and they can still cut the mustard (albeit in a boring and mono-tone fashion) - but Warriors have always been central to the Warhammer world of story line - and I bet some $$$ that's why they get the push ahead of other armies.

BUT if they do re-do the DoC and WoC then they better darn tooting re-do the Beastmen book as well! Give them some better rule sets - a proper table top presence - and most importantly more models in plastic! (Or finecast re-do) as they currently are not a cheap army to work with!

Lord Dan
20-11-2012, 02:28
We had heard talk about HE coming in the first quarter of 2013, however at that time we were also hearing the October WoC update was going to be a brand new army book.

If we can use the last VC release as our guide, they got a White Dwarf update for Banshees, Wraiths, and the Terrorgheist in late fall of 2011 and had their army book released in January of this year. My guess? We'll see a DoC book in January and a WoC book around March/April. My hope? Combined Daemon/WoC book in January and a HE release in March/April.

jtrowell
20-11-2012, 09:02
According to Hastings (probably the most reliable source that we have) last August the order for both Fantasy and 40k was:

1- 40k starter box
2- Chaos marines
3- Warriors of Chaos
4- Dark Angels
5- Chaos Daemons + Daemons of Chaos
6- Tau
7- High Elves
8- Eldars
9- Lizardmen

Hastings reconfirmed this order a few days ago in the 40k forums.

Current rumours have Dark Angels released in january, and Demons in February (probably both books released the same month), with December being for the Hobbit new game/box and a campaign book for 40k. Others surprises for december might still be possible (there were rumours of a new Blood Bowl box this year for its 25th anniversary), but seems more and more unlikely as time go.

Of course, the WoC having been just a wave with WD rules, we can expect a second wave with the army book somewhere in the following months, the logic seems to be that they have too many new models for a single wave, so split the releases in two, but keep the army book for last to prevent new units from lacking a models (GW has noticed that when they did that, others scultors made models for them, hurting potential sales for when they do release the official models)

So HE and WoC could maybe be released late spring/early summer (somewhere between April and June), with Lizardmen for late 2013.

misomiso
20-11-2012, 10:27
I had a discussion on this a few weeks ago, and what we thought was:-
Warriors of Chaos
Daemons of Chaos
High Elves
Lizardmen

Then later on Dark Elves, Dwarfs and Wood Elves in no particular order; probably not till late 2013 /early 2014 though.

However given the WoC update was not an army book its probably going to be something like:
Daemons
Warriors
High Elves
Lizardmen

Or they'll drop the warriors and go straight to High Elves Lizardmen.

King Arthur
20-11-2012, 16:21
How about Bretonnian came out 2003?

Quaki
20-11-2012, 16:55
How about Bretonnian came out 2003?
And what about it? Dwarfs are pretty old and WE as well.
Unfortunately for us, what matters for GW, is what's gonna sell and I'm afraid WoCh is way more popular then Bretonnia...

Lord Dan
20-11-2012, 17:04
Pac Man speaks the truth. I think GW would drop its poorest-performing army every year if they could. :p

Charistoph
20-11-2012, 17:21
Pac Man speaks the truth. I think GW would drop its poorest-performing army every year if they could. :p

I would like to point out that some armies are "poor" because they haven't had a lot recent help in rules. 7th hit Cavalry a bit, but 8th hammered it. Same with Skirmishers. And that pretty much defines the 2 features of Brets and Woodies. Skaven weren't a popular army till Island of Blood. Vamps took a hit in 8th till their last book came out.

So current popularity is zero indication of "dropping" an army.

Lord Dan
20-11-2012, 17:33
So current popularity is zero indication of "dropping" an army.

GW isn't stupid, and they understand that the longer an army goes without new stuff the lower its overall sales will be. As a result I believe they put off updating armies that didn't perform well with new releases in the past. Take WE, for instance. When the 7th edition book came out I hardly saw the uptick in WE players as I did when the 7th edition HE book came out. Obviously this has a lot to do with local meta, however GW as a company is going to look at the army that sold the most and update that as much as possible while avoiding putting resources into armies that sold less comparatively.

dhallnet
20-11-2012, 17:50
Take WE, for instance. When the 7th edition book came out I hardly saw the uptick in WE players as I did when the 7th edition HE book came out.
It's because WE never had a 7th ed book :p

Lord Dan
20-11-2012, 17:57
It's because WE never had a 7th ed book :p

Obviously I was referring to the 7th edition WE book that they released in 6th edition. :p

DaemonprincePaul
20-11-2012, 20:12
I hope daemons dont get the next new book i have only just realy got to grips with the army and started to have fun playing it

Urgat
20-11-2012, 21:47
7th hit Cavalry a bit, but 8th hammered it.

We haven't been playing the same 7th ed :p
Anyway, I'll put my trust in what hastings said, Harry more or less agreed with what he said (at least where DoC and WoC were concerned), so it's pretty sure for me.


GW isn't stupid, and they understand that the longer an army goes without new stuff the lower its overall sales will be. As a result I believe they put off updating armies that didn't perform well with new releases in the past. Take WE, for instance. When the 7th edition book came out I hardly saw the uptick in WE players as I did when the 7th edition HE book came out. Obviously this has a lot to do with local meta, however GW as a company is going to look at the army that sold the most and update that as much as possible while avoiding putting resources into armies that sold less comparatively.

You may also find me a tad cynical, but I'm not far from thinking they're also purposedly keeping a couple armies not updated for a couple editons, so that when they finally do get an update, they become "this edition's big thing"... Kindda like a brand new army, but w/ the commitment of actually expanding the range. Well, dunno, how successful were the dark eldars?

Lord Dan
20-11-2012, 22:02
You may also find me a tad cynical, but I'm not far from thinking they're also purposedly keeping a couple armies not updated for a couple editons, so that when they finally do get an update, they become "this edition's big thing"... Kindda like a brand new army, but w/ the commitment of actually expanding the range. Well, dunno, how successful were the dark eldars?

That's not at all cynical, and your comment about the Dark Eldar proves the point perfectly.

Darkness Rising
21-11-2012, 05:22
It's a harsh cycle. An old army book with out-dated rules will sell less because it's not 'competitive' , and because it sells less they don't update it because it's not popular, but it's not popular because it has outdated and overcosted rules so it doesn't sell, so they don't update the book in favour of more 'popular' armies... you get the idea.. :)

I'm pretty sure that (not to mention another system on purpose) but, armies like Space Wolves, Grey Knights etc were no way 'popular' before their update and become kings of the current 40K Meta. If armies like Wood Elves and Bretonnia were updated to be in line with Ogres for example, you can safely bet that they would become more common.

Charistoph
21-11-2012, 05:47
It's a harsh cycle. An old army book with out-dated rules will sell less because it's not 'competitive' , and because it sells less they don't update it because it's not popular, but it's not popular because it has outdated and overcosted rules so it doesn't sell, so they don't update the book in favour of more 'popular' armies... you get the idea.. :)

I'm pretty sure that (not to mention another system on purpose) but, armies like Space Wolves, Grey Knights etc were no way 'popular' before their update and become kings of the current 40K Meta. If armies like Wood Elves and Bretonnia were updated to be in line with Ogres for example, you can safely bet that they would become more common.

That was my point, but probably better said.

Lord Solar Plexus
21-11-2012, 06:01
GW isn't stupid


A bold claim, especially on the background of the "marketing concept" you've described.

Lord Dan
21-11-2012, 06:29
A bold claim, especially on the background of the "marketing concept" you've described.

I admit claiming GW's competence in the field of marketing might be a bit of a stretch, however what about the marketing concept I've described is stupid? If GW looked at their sales figures and saw:

WE release: 500,000 pound increase
Empire release: 2 million pound increase

Why wouldn't they update the Empire book more frequently than the WE book? Incidentally there have been two Empire army books released since the WE book came out (not to mention the 6th edition Empire release that came out just before the Wood Elves), and it's pretty clear to me that GW knows that any resources they put into Wood Elves are resources they can't subsequently put into projects that could make them more money.

It's the exact same reason why every other 40K codex released has the word "Marine" somewhere on the cover.

Lord Solar Plexus
21-11-2012, 07:31
I admit claiming GW's competence in the field of marketing might be a bit of a stretch, however what about the marketing concept I've described is stupid? If GW looked at their sales figures and saw:

WE release: 500,000 pound increase
Empire release: 2 million pound increase

Why wouldn't they update the Empire book more frequently than the WE book?

I don't know! However, that is besides the point because it is not quite what they are doing. A more precise description would run along the lines that they update some books relatively frequently and others not at all.

Why wouldn't they update the other books at all as long as the release yields some margin? Do they think it doesn't meet the target? My Popperian side tells me it is kind of difficult to predict the future based on past evidence...and while I realize that most resources will pay more dividends when they are invested into the flagship product line, it's not beyond companies to make a dedicated effort and create another successful product. I don't think Wood Elves are a lost cause as such.

Kula
21-11-2012, 08:07
I don't think any of the current 6th ed. armies are a lost cause. There are plenty of dwarf players out there for example, and waiting for 9th to release Bretts, WE and Dwarfs would probably see more players leaving their outdated armies. As long as there is an overall profit, they should ATLEAST update an army every other edition, not wait for 2 editions to fly by before they get some much needed love.

Urgat
21-11-2012, 08:22
A bold claim, especially on the background of the "marketing concept" you've described.

I don't know about that. For all the internet wisdom we claim we have, who is the leading player in the field? Whatever we think about the way they handle things, obviously, it's clearly working.

The bearded one
21-11-2012, 08:44
I don't know about that. For all the internet wisdom we claim we have, who is the leading player in the field? Whatever we think about the way they handle things, obviously, it's clearly working.

Or, according to a theory regurgitated ad nauseam on a...particular area of warseer, it used to work, and is now slowly losing customers.

DaemonprincePaul
21-11-2012, 08:52
Id much rather skaven got updated before dwarfs brets and wood elves

Urgat
21-11-2012, 09:23
Or, according to a theory regurgitated ad nauseam on a...particular area of warseer, it used to work, and is now slowly losing customers.

Well you're saying it's a theory: is there any truth to that, then? I don't see how one can count the number of customers GW has, but on the other hand, you can look at the sales figures (and I suspect that's all that matters, really). I'm not going to any areas of Warseer that should not be named (I call it the cesspit though), so I wouldn't know what numbers are thrown around there.

jtrowell
21-11-2012, 09:29
About WE/Bret/Dwarves, sure they are the armies needed the most an update (especially WE), but this is also I think one of the main reasons why they didn't update them yet.

Think about it: what do those armies need ? Rebalancing some units ? Sure, like any other army book, but what they lack the most is choice. Dwarves and Brets are perfectly viable (not great, but still good enough in a competitive environment against most other armies), but compare them to the recent armies books, and you will see that they would need many more units choices to compare, where currently only one or two army builds are really useables.

This means that while the Empire update has only changed some points and minor rules for existing units and added a few fancy models with the wizard-mobiles, the older books would need more deep changes, something like the Dark Eldar gor in 40k, or maybe something like the Tomb kings if you're thinkg about rules (fondamental rules changes for existing units, new infantry choice with the Tomb guards with Halberds, plus the 2 sphinxes, the nex options for the Bone giant/colossus, the hierotitan, the Casket playing totally differently than before, etc ...)

The problem with such changes ? They take time to be done perfectly, both rulewise, and to make the many more new models that such update might bring.

Lord Solar Plexus
21-11-2012, 09:40
Dark Elves have Gors in that other game system?!? Weirder and weirder, this marketing "strategy"!


I don't know about that. For all the internet wisdom we claim we have, who is the leading player in the field? Whatever we think about the way they handle things, obviously, it's clearly working.

Hmm. They said that about the GDR too. Is it working because they leave some factions in the rain or despite that though?

The leading player in the field of dolls is clearly Mattel. :)

dhallnet
21-11-2012, 10:47
The problem with such changes ? They take time to be done perfectly, both rulewise, and to make the many more new models that such update might bring.

I agree with you but we are speaking of decades before any updates (rules or models wise)... It seems that there is something else also holding them back.

Wesser
21-11-2012, 16:50
This is what I don't get about GW's sales catalog...that some call White Dwarf..

Wouldn't it be pretty easy to an old fashioned ravening hordes list, and get people to buy more battle pilgrims, flame cannons and other junk that dont get used atm

I mean whats stopping them? Balance? It ain't balanced now. Time-consuming for a WD-writer? Anyone on warseer could **** out an improved list for the 6th editioners in 30 minutes.

I dont get GW...I dont get WD.... and I hope Bret's dont get Robin Cruddace

Halbeard
21-11-2012, 20:30
If GW where fair they would treat every armies like there babies! Because they know their loyal costumers do. I can't see any problem with follow a schedule for army release. What about when they have updated all the armies that pay of well? Will they do it over again, I rather wait 10 years than buy a new armie i'm not keen on!!! I can play 6th ed with friends and have fun anyway! For certain they have left the hardcore gamers and veterans for 10 year olds that will hang on as long as its popular! What about loyal costumers? I miss the good old days when you could order bits! It's not like they compete other than amongst themself. Maybe we should start doing unoffical rules and use whatever system fits, that would have make them at least loss a little bit to pay attention to their costumers... or a Facebook petition If they do not listen perhaps people will realise what a bogus they are!?

Urgat
21-11-2012, 21:02
Hmm. They said that about the GDR too.

The GDR? Sorry, my knowledge of english acronyms is fairly limited.

Lord Dan
21-11-2012, 21:32
The GDR? Sorry, my knowledge of english acronyms is fairly limited.

I believe he's referring to the former German Democratic Republic (East Germany).

Plexi
22-11-2012, 05:08
Or, according to a theory regurgitated ad nauseam on a...particular area of warseer, it used to work, and is now slowly losing customers.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on not having a WE book. I have no desire to buy any of the models in any of the armies that they plan to update in the next year. Subsequently I have no reason to interact with the game in any way other than painting a few things. When that wanes whats to keep me from doing any of a dozen other things with my time, thereby losing interest in tabletop gaming altogether? It happened before with the stretch from the end of 5th edition through most of 7th edition to me, and I know for a fact that other people have had the same happen to them, and some have yet to return to the game. I rather doubt that they will given the current state.

alexmcgee
22-11-2012, 09:55
Going a little further, does anyone think that the longer term stratagy for some of these armies, particularly WE is to drop them? IF you go by the fluff, they could retreat back into Athel Loren and cease all interaction with the world. I think the Dawrves are too 'key' to the Old World to drop (unless the Skaven commit genocide) but Bretonia could be absorbed into the Empire?

Lord Solar Plexus
22-11-2012, 11:58
I can't imagine that. Examples of dropping armies are very rare. In principle, they could release AB: Elven Kingdoms, like Deamons, or AB: Human Empires but Empire just had a still brand new book, and it would cause a ruckus. Just dropping an army...no. They redid Space Wolves and Dark Eldar after decades of neglect and came up with pretty strong books. Of course the power creep in 40k appears to be more prominent, and I would not want that ever again but the point is they didn't drop them. There's serious money to be made from a reinvigorated Wood Elf book and models I'm certain, and the argument that people at GW would need to invest work into it beforehand is simply absurd. That's what people in companies all over the world do. They don't just switch on a machine - yet.

alexmcgee
22-11-2012, 14:28
I hope so. With their increasingly complex sculpts, wood elves could have some stunning models.

ashe
22-11-2012, 15:41
With the exception of the treekin models that look like something sculpted by a 3 year old and the eagles (they suck the gamezone eagle makes them look bad) the wood elf miniature range is one of the best in the game, and doesn't need new minis as much as other armies like the dwarves, brets, geckos, and dark elf, who still use 5th&6th edition minis for core and even special choices. GW is probably holding up for some new sculpts before releasing the new book. It is true that WE don't sell as much as the empire,WOC or the high elves but keep in mind unlike the 2 poster-boy armies wood elves get makeover every 7-8 years, while the empire, WOC and high elves get at least 2 models every year, not to mention the fact that the current WE army book is useless, an WE player have no reason to even bring the WE book with himself for a game, since all WE special rules are removed by the faq and the unit stats are in the big book too, as for list making everyone is using army builder. So my point is most players DOES NOT LIKE playing broken overpriced armies, and the collectors and painter only care about the new shiny stuff, that as i mentioned the WE have not had since 2007. The combination of negligence, bad promotions, and horrible army book design reflects on the sales of WE minis. GW have an unique opportunity to redo the entire WE game play once again, without the risk of disappointing the WE players, after all things can't get any worse than this(skirmishing/light cav army in edition that hates both is just not working) any change would be an improvement. :)
PS: I'm still convinced that WOC is getting their book next :P

Lord Inquisitor
22-11-2012, 16:52
GW isn't stupid, and they understand that the longer an army goes without new stuff the lower its overall sales will be. As a result I believe they put off updating armies that didn't perform well with new releases in the past. Take WE, for instance. When the 7th edition book came out I hardly saw the uptick in WE players as I did when the 7th edition HE book came out. Obviously this has a lot to do with local meta, however GW as a company is going to look at the army that sold the most and update that as much as possible while avoiding putting resources into armies that sold less comparatively.

I'm not sure it necessarily is as simple as that. For example, many people have an Empire army. An Empire army new release will have a big market - but they'll just buy new stuff to add on not a whole new army usually. A re-release of an army like Ogre Kingdoms had a small following, but being a suddenly-attractive army in terms of rules and theme and new models, we had a massive explosion of ogre players the vast majority of which went out and bought a whole new army.