PDA

View Full Version : Look Out Sir vs all models in the unit etc



scoutbike
19-11-2012, 18:34
Cant find anything clarifying this. You cant target missile attacks versus characters in units (assuming more than 5 rank and file etc). And characters get look out sir versus template weapons.

What about spells/effects that affect 'all models in the unit'? Does look out sir apply? And if so, what do you do with a unit of 16 (for example) and one character? Does the unit need to make 17 tests (assuming it's something like all models in the unit test against strength) because of the one dodged by the character, or is it still 16 as technically a regular model only needs to test once and will have already done so?

hamsterwheel
19-11-2012, 18:37
Spells like Dwellers Below do not grant a LoS for characters. Each model will test on it's own Strength value so in this case, one roll for the character separately, 1 for the champion(if there is one) and 15 or 16 depending upon whether a champion is in the unit.

scoutbike
19-11-2012, 19:04
Can you cite that anywhere in the rulebook?

The Low King
19-11-2012, 19:14
It is not a template, to get a LOS roll it needs to be a template weapon.

AntaresCD
19-11-2012, 19:31
Pages 93, 97, and 99 of the BRB detail how and under what conditions a champion, lone character, and character in a unit, respectively, may take a Look Out Sir! roll. A Look Out Sir! roll is a special execption to normally targetting rules. So if it is not one of the conditions listed that allow a Look Out Sir!, then the character/champion does not get one and the normal hit allocation applies.

Also note that the latest FAQ added Impact hits to the list of attacks a lone character gets a Look Out Sir! to.

T10
20-11-2012, 12:33
Cant find anything clarifying this. You cant target missile attacks versus characters in units (assuming more than 5 rank and file etc). And characters get look out sir versus template weapons.

What about spells/effects that affect 'all models in the unit'? Does look out sir apply? And if so, what do you do with a unit of 16 (for example) and one character? Does the unit need to make 17 tests (assuming it's something like all models in the unit test against strength) because of the one dodged by the character, or is it still 16 as technically a regular model only needs to test once and will have already done so?

You can't target shooting attacks against characters in units.

By default you target the unit and roll to hit to determine the number of hits. The player that owns the target unit then allocates the hits as evenly among the models as possible. If you score a lot of hits, you may force your opponent to allocate a hit on a character or champion in the unit. The exception to this is when the champion/character is of the same troop type as the rank-and-file, and there are 5 or more non-champion rank-and-file in the unit: In this case the player is not allowed to allocate any of the hits to the character/champion.

If an attack hits every model in the unit, then all models are hit.

If an attack uses a template then all models touched by the template are hit, but a champion/character may be allowed a Look Out Sir! roll even if all models in the unit were hit.

A successful Look Out Sir! roll will transfer the hit to a non-champion rank-and-file model of the same troop type, and may cause one of those models to take a second hit. It is usually not a problem: If a rank-and-file model is slain, you remove a model from the rear of the unit regardless of which model was actually killed. And if a rank-and-file model is killed twice you remove two models.

-T10

the_picto
20-11-2012, 14:25
Does a magical vortex allow look out sir? From my reading the look out sir rule is triggered by any shooting attack including templates, but I couldn't find anything saying that a magical vortex was a shooting attack. Just being caught by a template doesn't seem to be enough, it needs to be a shooting attack that uses a template.

dementian
20-11-2012, 14:31
No it is all templates

the_picto
20-11-2012, 17:22
Which page is that on?

Artiee
20-11-2012, 17:31
Pages 93, 97, and 99 of the BRB detail how and under what conditions a champion, lone character, and character in a unit, respectively, may take a Look Out Sir! roll. A Look Out Sir! roll is a special execption to normally targetting rules. So if it is not one of the conditions listed that allow a Look Out Sir!, then the character/champion does not get one and the normal hit allocation applies.

Also note that the latest FAQ added Impact hits to the list of attacks a lone character gets a Look Out Sir! to.

Those pages.

Donkusai
20-11-2012, 23:25
Characters don't get LoS from templates in the magic phase unless the spell says "shoots like a X". This is actually pretty cut and dry when reading over the rules.

The Look out Sir box on the bottom of page 93 says if a champion is hit by a template as described above. When you look above it says the only exceptions to this are shooting attacks that do not use the normal shooting rules, specifically shooting attacks that use some form of template.

On page 97 it states that if a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind a Look out Sir roll can be attempted.

On page 99 it lists under Unusual Shooting Attacks it says that if a character is hit by a shooting attack that does not use normal shooting rules, specifically shooting attacks that use some form of template he can attempt a Look out Sir roll.

No where does it ever say all templates grant a Look out Sir. On page 32 it gives detailed descriptions of all 5 spell types and none of them state that they are "shooting attacks". If you could Look out Sir any template, this would let you roll on the blast template that centers on your wizard during miscasts.

dementian
21-11-2012, 05:02
Characters don't get LoS from templates in the magic phase unless the spell says "shoots like a X". This is actually pretty cut and dry when reading over the rules.

The Look out Sir box on the bottom of page 93 says if a champion is hit by a template as described above. When you look above it says the only exceptions to this are shooting attacks that do not use the normal shooting rules, specifically shooting attacks that use some form of template.

On page 97 it states that if a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind a Look out Sir roll can be attempted.

On page 99 it lists under Unusual Shooting Attacks it says that if a character is hit by a shooting attack that does not use normal shooting rules, specifically shooting attacks that use some form of template he can attempt a Look out Sir roll.

No where does it ever say all templates grant a Look out Sir. On page 32 it gives detailed descriptions of all 5 spell types and none of them state that they are "shooting attacks". If you could Look out Sir any template, this would let you roll on the blast template that centers on your wizard during miscasts.

Page 9 of FAQ/Errata

"Q: Does the ‘Look Out Sir’ special rule apply against all spells that
use templates? (p93)
A: Yes."

the_picto
21-11-2012, 09:57
Page 9 of FAQ/Errata

"Q: Does the ‘Look Out Sir’ special rule apply against all spells that
use templates? (p93)
A: Yes."

Argh! I spent 5 minutes looking for that at the doubles tournament at the weekend in the hope of saving my tzeentch herald from purple sun. Thank you.

Still not sure the rules in rulebook support that answer though.

belgarath97
25-11-2012, 02:17
Still not sure the rules in rulebook support that answer though.

They don't support impact hits getting one either, but that's the way GW want's it played.

Donkusai
25-11-2012, 13:21
Huh, I stand corrected.

What about the blast templates from miscasts? Guessing those would still not apply since they are not spells?

Have to agree with picto on this one. That answer is totally different then what the rules actually state. Oh well, FAQ is FAQ.