PDA

View Full Version : Black Legion, over rated?



Cooper97
20-11-2012, 00:11
Im an avid Alpha Legion player but all my friends play Black Legion. The are only so popular because the Black Legion are jammed down our throats by GW. Any one agree with me?

Knifeparty
20-11-2012, 00:26
I usually think more people hate stuff that is rammed down their throats, to be honest I've only ever seen a couple Black Legion players other than myself in real life. I think people just like Black Legion because they are badass. They are at the heart of every major push against the imperium that has actually made a difference.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 00:37
Yeah but its still jammed down your throat like the freaking ultra marines are. I just wish they would use more diversity. I also think that the paint scheme is so boring. I mean black, silver and red. Try the alpha legion. Blue, silver, green and also scales. Scales are so hard to paint but make the model look amazing. I will say this though, FEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR! We unite against the common enemy.

Knifeparty
20-11-2012, 00:41
Well I'm going to definitely disagree with the colour scheme part, that was the selling point for me, I love black gold and red, beautiful, elegant and evil. If you really want to see a problem in diversity go see how many grey knight/space wolf players there are.

Menthak
20-11-2012, 00:52
Black Legion are shoved down our throats with good reason, they're the renegades that do everything, they're bigger than other war bands, they embrace chaos more than certain warbands, they make use of all cult units, they are the jack of all trades. And they're the imperiums biggest chaotic threat (IMHO) and such are popular. In the same way that ultras are; because they're the generic faction which other factions are built around.

Menthak
20-11-2012, 00:55
In addition, if you don't like something dong play it and don't give them any quarter on the tabletop ( my kroot carry GK blitz in defiance of Mat ward and my Silver Legionaries are necron hating for similar reasons)

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 01:09
Fair points from all of you. I understand, but a bit of diversity in the shoving down throats would be alright. I will take all this IMO account and I agree that space wolves and grey nights are so over rated. They need to even them out in the next codex's.

EvilFuzzyDoom
20-11-2012, 01:11
Black legion are really, really easy to paint.

Menthak
20-11-2012, 01:16
Diversity is ultimately up to the players, for example, used to hate Space Marines, especially Ultrarines, space wolves and blood angels, since then I have warmed to the idea in my own way. Still, I don't have a ultramarine army or a black legion or grey knights, because I have free will and so do others.

Having said this; Grey knights are the exception, kill them all, burn the codex, praise malal.

Harbinger
20-11-2012, 01:16
As a Black Legion player I disagree. The paint scheme looks very good. The other Legions are too bright in my opinion, although they do stand out nicley if mixed with BL.

From the background, the BL is most aggressive in pursuing the Long War and are most likely to use diplomacy for getting the "family" together to burn worlds. They have made the most lasting gains and are the boogey-man of the Imperium. They are the archetypal black knights.

Personally, I have never seen another BL army outside of White Dwarf or a Codex. I think the rarity is due to them not having a niche with quirks or special rules.

And I cannot paint scales, so if you can, you are doing the proper thing by representing the Alpha Legion.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 01:18
Yes and no. Alpha legion are relatively easy to paint. This is an invalid point. Also black legion are over rated because your primarch is dead unlike ours. We have two and although one is dead the spirit lives on.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 01:20
Btw we are the slaves of darkness but for a good reason. We attack on all front, causing catastrophic damage, hence the reason why our symbol is a hydra, the symbol of multiple attacks.

Menthak
20-11-2012, 01:36
I thought alpha legion were loyal? :P

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 02:26
No. Our primachs are alpharius and omegon and we are legion twenty. We turned against the Emperor during the Horus heresy. Even before the Horus heresy we were the most secretive legion. Refer to http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpha_Legion#.UKv8NWt5mSM

Notanoob
20-11-2012, 02:49
I guess you haven't read the book Legion yet...conspiracy theories abound!

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 03:01
Yes I have. Based on the imperious records one of our primarchs died. I know the theories that neither of them died but it was a clone. I believe this but I still refer to the imperiums records. Despite my loath for those control freaks. I hope in the next round of rule books and codex's that they bring back the primarch to make it more interesting.

Leftenant Gashrog
20-11-2012, 03:16
Now, maybe I shouldn't compare things so much with how things are for loyalists but..

They aren't in the starter box (okay admittedly neither are smurfs)

They aren't on the cover of the codex (see Ultramarines/vanilla)

They aren't repeatedly described as being the best of the best of the best in the codex (see Ultramarines/vanilla)

They don't have more special characters than every other legion combined (see Ultramarines/vanilla), in fact they actually get LESS (1 vs 2 for Emperors Children)

Start of the miniatures section of the codex, massive two page spread of a single-legion army.. Black Legion? No, Alpha.

Okay the actual gallery of miniatures.. right there on the first page you have examples of both Black Legion AND Crimson Slaughter.. right there on the first line no less (compare to vanilla dex which has a page and a half of smurfs before the lesser chapter HQ's appear at the BOTTOM of the second page) there follows a few pages of Black Legion again sharing the stage with other warbands before we get to a full-page mono-army battle where the Black Legion finally get to shine! Oh no wait its that Alpha Legion army again.. Followed by four pages in which there isn't a single Black Legionaire! (aside from the actual army pages there are smurfs on every page of the vanilla mini section). Okay then you get a full page of Black Legion thats followed once more by several full pages without a Black Legionaire. The section finally ends with a massive 2-page spread of chaos goodness, a mighty war host to ram home the true might of the glorious Black Legion!! Look close now so you see just how awesome they are, they're the small black contingent nestled in between the far larger Alpha Legion force and the Iron Warriors force, not to mention being rather blatantly outnumbered by the massed ranks of Night Lords on the buildings behind..

I really have no idea what you people are complaining about.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 03:20
You are a mor@n. No loyalist can understand what it feels like. The ultra marines are so shoved down our throats and you can't call them smurfs, half of the space marine legions are a brighter blue than us.

Morrslieb
20-11-2012, 03:39
Black Legion? Alpha Legion? Both look good and have some fancy fluff... but I'm still iron within, iron without.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 03:47
Iron warriors are pretty awesome. I like the fluff on them.

samiens
20-11-2012, 04:17
Wow, two threads to attack one army and promote another...

What's wrong with liking Black Legion anyway, they're not my favourite (Death Guard anyone) but they've got a neat background, nice colour scheme and one of the coolest characters in 40k, both on and off the tabletop.

As for the primarch argument- its a little fallacious, Abaddon is the new Warmaster and isthe only being who can draw all the Legions and warbands together, plus he bears the mark of each Chaos god. That's worth at least as much as having a short Primarch!

But Alpha Legion are cool too, just different.

As for the marketing thing, its easier to sell a cohesive vision- that's why every box shows black legion, it creates a more enticing point of sale. Unlike Ultramarines, the literature and codex is rather balanced, so I don't really agree Bl are pushed down our throats

MarshalFaust
20-11-2012, 04:51
"My dad can beat up your dad". ya dang kids get off my lawn!! It's threads like this that make me start to feel like an old codger. and I guess to get back on topic red is better than blue because I like red. discuss.

samiens
20-11-2012, 05:12
But blue is so... No I can't deny it, go red!

terradax
20-11-2012, 05:15
Black Legion? really? Of the few Chaos SM players that are really out there in my area, it's mostly Word Bearers.
I play Black Legion though, and it's mainly so I can easily induct the four cults to my army, like Abaddon is gathering forces for a new black Crusade.

Mr. Shine
20-11-2012, 05:22
Alpha Legion are less cool than Black Legion. Black is the coolest colour, alpha isn't even a colour.

Alpha Legion are the coolest loyalist legion, though, and if you disagree with me you are a... "mor@n".

:shifty:

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 08:35
i never said i dont like the black legion, i just think that they are pushed at us to much. btw what the hell. how can you choose between red and blue. fair point alpha isnt a colour but neither is word bearers. You people have taken this te wrong way. i was mainly stating that we have black legion shoved at us. and also i am the only person i know that plays any other legion than blck legion. also if you read my first post on this thread, you will realise that i do have a black legion army. the fluff on them is great but i just havent had much luck with them thats all. but thank you everyone for the mixed opinions. i appreciate the input

Bad monkey
20-11-2012, 08:55
In what way are bl shoved down our throats? In the current dex the only full army displayed is a alpha legion one, if memory serves.

And on the cover it is a blood gorgon. In the box it is the crimson slaughter.

To be fair I don't really see the point of this thread other than just to spray some fanboy love about alpha stylee which is fair enough, but it seems like a waste of internets to me.

Especially as everyone knows the emperors children are the best.😜

Bad monkey
20-11-2012, 08:57
Sorry double post.

Trazyn
20-11-2012, 09:07
In what way are bl shoved down our throats? In the current dex the only full army displayed is a alpha legion one, if memory serves.

And on the cover it is a blood gorgon. In the box it is the crimson slaughter.

To be fair I don't really see the point of this thread other than just to spray some fanboy love about alpha stylee which is fair enough, but it seems like a waste of internets to me.

Especially as everyone knows the emperors children are the best.

I have to agree. I'm at a loss as to how the Black Legion is being forced on anyone, in either the actual game - or via Black Library. While they seem to be the 'Ultramarines of Chaos', they actually get very little screen-time.

KingDeath
20-11-2012, 09:11
Black legion are really, really easy to paint.

Sure, if you reduce painting black to using primer and a few edge highlights then they are.

Minsc
20-11-2012, 09:14
Sigh, another thread about this Cooper97?
I thought your first thread was mildly entertaining, but this one just feels like spamm and bad trolling.

lowkey
20-11-2012, 09:46
Yeah seriously, I hope you are just trolling... or like 10 years old... if not, maybe you should consider taking these things a little less serious. I can't stand this ********

BigbyWolf
20-11-2012, 10:15
Yeah but its still jammed down your throat like the freaking ultra marines are. I just wish they would use more diversity. I also think that the paint scheme is so boring. I mean black, silver and red. Try the alpha legion. Blue, silver, green and also scales. Scales are so hard to paint but make the model look amazing. I will say this though, FEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR! We unite against the common enemy.

You can't hate Ultramarines that much, surely?

4 Days ago you had 7000 points of them.:


I've just finished collecting a 7000 point army but I'm not sure how to
paint in the colours of the ultramarines. Can anyone help me. Please

Virulentus
20-11-2012, 10:16
The Black Legion have little - to no - representation currently.. As such, this thread makes little sense to me.

Vhalyar
20-11-2012, 10:41
Yeah seriously, I hope you are just trolling... or like 10 years old... if not, maybe you should consider taking these things a little less serious. I can't stand this ********

Pretty much. Seems to be a case of "my legion is the best legion, I think it should be more prominent than any other legion."

Beppo1234
20-11-2012, 10:51
Alpha Legion are less cool than Black Legion. Black is the coolest colour, alpha isn't even a colour.

Alpha Legion are the coolest loyalist legion, though, and if you disagree with me you are a... "mor@n".

:shifty:

Black is not a colour... it's an absence of colour

I collect BL, because as others have said, the background allows you to draw forces from all flavours of Chaos marines. This allows your army to look chaotic as far as colour scheme goes... compared to the uniform colour of the dedicated flavour CSM armies.

third: why is BL the CSM poster boy? Look at the rainbow of marine forces out there. Simply put, it's a marketing thing. Ultramarines already hold the blue colour on box covers... so whatever the CSM poster child is going to be, it can't be blue, red (Blood angels hold that one), blue/grey (Wolves) or Dark Green (DAs). GW has to choose a cover colour that is distinct and primary. This is not to say this rule is 100% of the time, but there is definitely a trend... may also be why black templars are on the back burner.

gitburna
20-11-2012, 11:05
Black legion overrated and shoved down your throat?

I don't recall seeing any Black Library series based around the Black Legion yet, while there are excellent series about the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Night Lords, and the Thousand Sons Deathguard and Red Corsairs have shown up as antagonists in the other novels i've read. I remember one segment with Abaddon & the black legion in the Night Lords series and that was pretty much it... Likewise the Forgeworld series have featured Alpha Legion, Khorne and Nurgle factions...and the Red Corsairs while they were still Astral Claws... i've not seen anything about Black legion in them yet. Even going back historically in White Dwarf, Iron Warriors have dominated the pages and the whole development team seemed to love the IW with Chambers, Haines, MacNeill, Hoare, Byrne etc all having them.

Black legion armies everywhere? In my region far and away the most popular faction is Nurgle, and even in the Codex, the only fully painted army seems to be the Alpha Legion force...

Antipathy
20-11-2012, 11:34
Cooper, I am trying to work out whether you are trolling (and clearly not doing it very well), or you seriously believe what rubbish you are talking. Either way, Im not sure what I pity you for more.

skorczeny
20-11-2012, 11:52
GW using BL on the cover of CSM boxes. Is this really a problem? Really?
Oh, and I think they get a half-page more photos in the 5th and 6th dex.

If you're trying to market the evil-bad-guys, Black Legion are painted black, and nothing says evil-bad-guys like an evil black uniform. F.

Shamana
20-11-2012, 12:08
In what way are bl shoved down our throats?

I'll have to agree with that. I don't remember there being that much said about the Black Legion, certainly not to the degree the current SM codex is an Ultramarine lovefest. I don't follow the novels, but off the top of my head I can't think of any major BL character made known by them (like, say, Honsou).

malisteen
20-11-2012, 13:14
I used to like Alpha Legion, before they went mainstream!

By contrast, the Black Legion was mainstream before it was cool.


Black Legion does seem to get all the emphasis in large incursions. Wouldn't mind seeing a bit more focus on non-Abaddon led incursions. But no, they're not nearly so 'crammed down your throat' as they once were, or as the Ultramarines still are for loyalists.


As for easy to paint... Black Legion may be easier to get to 'bare minimum tabletop standards', but they're certainly not easier to paint well. Black armor is hard to get right - it requires careful edge highlighting of a type that many colors of power armor can get away without. It's also difficult to find the right balance of spot colors and accents that will make your miniatures interesting without distracting from and obscuring the the overall effect of the black armor. But once you get it right? I love the aesthetic impact of an army of grim, somber black-clad warriors, and the contrast you get between the black power armor and the dirty & tattered greys and browns of your cultists or the bright, garish hues of allied daemons.

Cooper97
20-11-2012, 21:14
I apologize. This thread did not go the way I wanted it to go. I didnt mean it to end like this.