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Buddha777
16-05-2006, 09:05
EDITED LIST:

Lord: 440
Slann Mage-Preist (440): 4th generation, Battle Standard Bearer, Plaque of Tepoc, Diadem of Power


Heroes: 267
Skink Priest (95): Lvl 1 Wizard, Dispel Scroll

Scar Veteran (172): Light Armor, Shield, Blessed Spawning of Itzl, Cold One, Aura of Quetzel, Sword of the Hornet


Core: 678
16 Saurus Warriors (222): Full Command

16 Saurus Warriors (222): Full Command

13 Skinks (78 ): Hand Weapon & Blowpipe

13 Skinks (78 ): Javelin & Shield

13 Skinks (78 ): Javelin & Shield


Special: 419
3 Krozigor (174)

7 Saurus Calvary (245)


Rare: 195
3 Slamander Hunting Packs (195)

Total: 1999

Rik Valdis
16-05-2006, 19:21
Are you not giving Saurus shields? I really would advise this. Secondly I would make the Slann a BSB, it does make quite a difference. Dropping a couple of scrolls would probably also be an idea, 6 dispel dice is quite a lot by itself.

Personally I'm not much of a fan of the stegadon, particularly in a magic-heavy army, I would replace it with another uni (probably Saurus) myself but if you really want to use it then don't be put off, it is cool and after all that's what counts.

Hope I've been some help.

McMullet
16-05-2006, 19:30
Saurus come with shields by default, so you're OK there.

I agree on the BSB, it's a good investment. I would also give the Slann some magic items since you're going all out for magic, either the Plaque of Dominion or Diadem of power is good. Perhaps think about dropping one of the rare choices to pay for that, and maybe taking 2 or 3 bases of swarms - they're rather ubiquitous, but oh so useful.

Kroxhandler
16-05-2006, 22:09
I think you're going the right way with the Slann, either 2nd gen or 4th gen. A good magical item, real cheap btw, is the Plaque of Tepoc. A extra spell( from the magic lore of your choice) is always a good investment. Slap on the Diadem of Power and you've got a nice 50 pts package. You then have 5 spells with a maximum of 12 power dice or 8 dispel dice. Flexibility is a good thing.

However putting the Slann in a unit is a bit risky IMO, one fail break/panic/fear-test and you've lost about 1/3 of your army. Not very nice. Still, it take a whole lot to send 18 Saurus packing, just consider fielding the Slann on its own. The only thing you gain by putting it in a unit is boosting the Unit Strength, the Slann can still be targeted since it's a large target. The unit offer no protection besides soaking up charges, which it can do without the Slann in the middle. You could still have the hover near the Saurus providing leadership and battle standard support, while keeping it safe from being overrun. It's perhaps a choice of taste and tactics but IMO the Slann does better when on its own.

Kroxigors are a good special choice as they provide some heavy hits, perfect for slamming into the flank of an enemy engaged with a unit of Saurus. Salamanders for rare is also a good choice, real good shooting real cheap. If you feel a bit short on points consider reducing them to 2 salamanders, they often do the same job as 3 just as well. The Stegadon could be awesome as a second flanking force, especially with its impact hits. It could also be a big pointsink depending on how you manage to play. With both a Stegadon and a Slann you've got a lot of points invested in those two models alone. I'd listen to McMullet, Jungle Swarms could be a real good substitute in this army. Not the same role, unless your accustomed to sticking your Stegadon in peoples face and watch them squirm for several rounds, but well worth the points.

Consider making your squads of skinks 13 models strong to force 4 kills for a panictest. It's maybe slightly sleazy but will save your lizard-bacon a lot of times. I'd also recommend making one of those units scouts, a well placed unit of skinks can slow the enemy army for a round or two, possibly even take out a warmachine or mage. Very handy.

Also two lvl.2 Priest fully loaded with Scrolls is a bit overboard, unless you're facing a magic heavy VC or HE army then you might benefit dropping at least 2 scrolls, possible both extra levels on the Priests as well. If your main reason for fielding them is to bring dispel power to the table lvl.1 is just fine. Consider chucking one Priest out and replacing it with either a scouting skink Chief or a Scar-veteran.

Well, that's my 2 cents for the moment. Good luck with your list, let us know if and when you test it.

Buddha777
17-05-2006, 06:41
Thank you very much for detailed comments. I'm still a 40k player at heart so this fantasy thing is new to me. I tried to make as many of the suggested changes as possible. Ultimatley I was split on the stegadon, its a kick ass model and a potential headache for many enemies. But with the slann in the army I suppose I don't want too many points tied up in too few units. I still wanted another good flanking unit though so I thought some saurus clavary might fit the bill. Please tell me what you think of my revised list.

Kroxhandler
17-05-2006, 11:18
Well, you don't have to what we've done. We've all just found some tricks and styles suits us, some swears by Kroxigors while other stick with Saurus Cavalry for instance. You might discover that several of our advice doesn't work as well for your style of play as for ours. But since we are all-knowing, all-powerful gods of WHFB maybe listening a bit might be useful.:D

The scar-vet seems nice, often works well in a group of Saurus Cav. Personally I find it often a bit overkill as the cavalry can look after itself but give it a try and see what you think. The Stegadon Helm is a bit of a waste, the Slann already has Ld9. It makes an interesting option of for once not having to put the Slann in the position of general of the army. But then again it's probably suited best for the task, staying 12" to all your troops is hard when you're on a cold one. Ld8 with Coldblooded rule is still very very good. I'd say you're better off leaving the Stegadon Helm at home and packing a little more protection like Aura of Quetzl.Just imagine what a single bolt from a Bolt Thrower, or a magic spell that allows no armour saves, would do to your Scar-vet. A ward save is usually a good idea. If you feel like being a little more defensive you might try taking sword of the Hornet, as a 40K player I'm sure you understand the benefits of striking before your opponent. This is especially good if you get stuck, if you don't break the enemy on the charge, it will offset the Saurus general low initiative.

If you are planning on putting the Scar-vet in with the Saurus Cav. then I think you can safely get rid of 1 model. Running cavalry in groups of 5, 8 or 12 seems to work best. 7 is just an odd number that doesn't give you any particular benefits. Also the command upgrade on the Saurus cav. is really expensive, most people only take a standard to be able to take one of the magic banners. The champion especially is probably not worth the points( same goes for Kroxigor champions), musician might be useful but if you're strapped for points this would be a good place to start cutting down on extras. If you take a standard you might want to consider taking a magical banner, Banner of Huanchi is a common sight with Saurus Cavalry. Really makes for some nasty tactics, like marching up to an enemy, wheeling slightly so you aim for its flanks and then in the magic phase jump right into them. A good piece of advice when fielding Saurus Cavalry and Slanns is probably to take a couple of spells from lore of Shadows, unseen lurker and pelt of midnight are two very useful spells there.

Buddha777
19-05-2006, 01:52
Thanks again for the comment. I tried to make as many of the suggested changes and I thinks its a pretty solid and balanced list now. But I'm just wondering if it isn't to balanced and unable to really excel in any particular area. So I was thinking that perhaps a more magic oriented list like this would not be better?

Lord: 585
Slann Mage-Preist (585): 2nd generation, Battle Standard Bearer, Plaque of Tepoc, Diadem of Power, Plaque of Dominion


Heroes: 250
Skink Priest (125): Lvl 2 Wizard, Dispel Scroll

Skink Priest (125): Lvl 2 Wizard, Dispel Scroll


Core: 786
16 Saurus Warriors (210): Musician, Standard Bearer

16 Saurus Warriors (210): Musician, Standard Bearer

10 Skinks (70): Hand Weapon & Blowpipe, Scouts

10 Skinks (70): Hand Weapon & Blowpipe, Scouts

10 Skinks (70): Hand Weapon & Blowpipe, Scouts

13 Skinks (78): Javelin & Shield

13 Skinks (78): Javelin & Shield


Special: 174
3 Krozigor (174)


Rare: 195
3 Slamander Hunting Packs (195)

Total: 1990


Anythoughts on which list is more fieldworthy as I like both?

Kroxhandler
19-05-2006, 12:50
Hey, going magic-heavy is what Lizardmen do best, at least with a 2nd gen Slann involved. I guess I don't really have to stress how much the Slann will either make or break your way to victory. Be real careful with it. 2 bases of jungle swarms could be an excellent bodyguard. If anyone tries to sneak some cavalry around your flank to get to the toad just put the swarms between them. Almost nothing can reliably inflict 10 wounds on the charge. Should give the Slann enough time to put some distance between them. Not to mention one of the units of Saurus could get enough time to turn around and smash into the cavalries flanks.

If you are going to take a 2nd gen, Plaque of Tepoc is a must. Another spell means another powerdice, you really can't cast too much magic. Same old combo, diadem+Plaque of Tepoc, is good once again. More powerdice to the people! If you need to free up some points I'd suggest dropping the champions from the Saurus units, maybe dropping one priest down to lvl.1. Taking 2 Salamanders instead of the full 3 might work very well IMHO. You are certainly running out of options for tweaking but there are some points here and there that you probably could reallocate.

Buddha777
22-05-2006, 06:17
Thank you so much for the help. I playtested the modified list above with my 40k models (base sizes wern't right, but I got the feel) and I like how it plays. I realy enjoy being able to pound targets with magic missles (2nd gen slann kick so much ass!), poisioned skink weapons, salamander artillery, and than have to get by my saurus warriors and kroxigor. I lost in the playtest but thats to be expected for a first time fantasy player. Any further adivce would be great however.

Nils-Ake
22-05-2006, 11:57
More than one unit of scouts is bad, because you wont find so much room in deployment to place them. Remove one skink priest and add one more Kroxigor. I think it would be good to remove one skink unit allso and use the points for 3-5 terradrones.

Kroxhandler
22-05-2006, 12:14
I'd say 2 unit of scouts is about as much as you can expect to fit on an average board. Dropping a priest from the list is also a good idea, unless you find its extra magicdice useful. Terradons might be very good in this list, I agree with Nils-Ake.
Good for you if you like the magic missile approach with your Slann, I'd advice you to think long and hard about it's limitations though. Against a horde army even 5 magic missiles might not be enough to put any serious dents in the opposing army. Magic missiles are IMO best used for removing support units like skirmishers or lone mages, things that are hard to hit otherwise. One nasty combo you could take is adding Banehead to your Slann and then using a spellslot on the default spell in Lore of Metal. At the start of the game you nominate any one weak enemy mage( like skink priests or necromancers) for extermination, the Rule of Burning Iron is a very nifty spell for this.

Buddha777
22-05-2006, 22:02
More than one unit of scouts is bad, because you wont find so much room in deployment to place them.

Thank you for the comment. I really like my scouts in the playtest only because it let me deploy them last which was a godsend for screening.


Remove one skink priest and add one more Kroxigor. I think it would be good to remove one skink unit allso and use the points for 3-5 terradrones.
I was thinking of dropping the second priest as the slann had soooo much magic already, it was insane. Will add the terradons as I defenitley felt a lack of mobility.


Good for you if you like the magic missile approach with your Slann, I'd advice you to think long and hard about it's limitations though. Against a horde army even 5 magic missiles might not be enough to put any serious dents in the opposing army. Magic missiles are IMO best used for removing support units like skirmishers or lone mages, things that are hard to hit otherwise. One nasty combo you could take is adding Banehead to your Slann and then using a spellslot on the default spell in Lore of Metal. At the start of the game you nominate any one weak enemy mage( like skink priests or necromancers) for extermination, the Rule of Burning Iron is a very nifty spell for this.

Well the magic missle approach fit my noobie concept of the game nicley but I'd really like to hear some better uses of a slann's considerable magic potential.

Here is a revised list:
Lord: 535
Slann Mage-Preist (535): 2nd generation, Battle Standard Bearer, Plaque of Tepoc, Diadem of Power

Heroes: 175
Skink Priest (175): Lvl 2 Wizard, Mark of the Old Ones, Cube of Darkness


Core: 780
20 Saurus Warriors (270): Full Command

20 Saurus Warriors (270): Full Command

12 Skinks (84): Hand Weapon & Blowpipe, Scouts

13 Skinks (78): Javelin & Shield

13 Skinks (78): Javelin & Shield


Special: 314
3 Krozigor (174)

4 Terradons (140)


Rare: 195
3 Slamander Hunting Packs (195)

Total: 1999

yogo_junzo
22-05-2006, 22:27
This is probly the list i would take at 2k if i was using a mage priest a bit the same as your list only with a few personal tweaks

Slann Mage-Priest @ 585 Pts
Second, Battle Standard
Plaque of Tepok [15]
Plaque of Dominion [50]
Diadem of Power [35]


1 Skink Priest @ 175 Pts
Magic Level 2; Mark of the Old Ones
Cube of Darkness [40]

16 Saurus Warriors @ 222 Pts
Full Command

16 Saurus Warriors @ 222 Pts
Full Command

13 Skink Skirmishers @ 91 Pts
Scout; Blowpipe

13 Skink Skirmishers @ 78 Pts
Javelin; Shield

13 Skink Skirmishers @ 78 Pts
Javelin; Shield

3 Jungle Swarm @ 180 Pts

3 Kroxigors @ 174 Pts
Great Weapon

3 Salamander Hunting Packs @ 195 Pts


Casting Pool: 9 Dispel Pool: 6

Models in Army: 91


Total Army Cost: 2000

a few justifications in the army 13 for your skinks is a good number better than 10 as it means your opponent has to kill 4 skinks to even make you test for Ld.
the skink priest with the mark of the old ones and the cube is semi cheesy but trust me you can really muck up someone battleplans by stoping the entire magic phase and dispelling all RIP spells. I will admit i am new to using the jungleswarms but in every test i have used them i have found them an invaluable asset to my army they have held up units of Grail knights, Chosen Chaos knights, and Swordmasters till my kroxigors get there to land the flank charge on them then its game over for the knights.
so all in all swarms are brilliant, terrodons are ok but i have found them to be quite weak if not used correctly so if you are new to WFB its a unit i wouldn't advise using


welcome to the world of WFB and the lizardmen
for lustria

NaT
24-05-2006, 05:41
I really like the look of your list yogo_junzo, but how do you deal with war machines?

yogo_junzo
24-05-2006, 19:13
i worry about warmachines when i meet them usually most people who use warmachines usually like to entrench them on hills of in hard cover which is where lore of life comes into its own :evilgrin:
also i have rule of burning iron 2 get warmachine crew with