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Karak Norn Clansman
02-12-2012, 22:59
Since I recently bought a vintage miniature through the Swedish branch of E-bay I'd like to know if there is anything in particular one should think about during assembly or painting of a lead-containing figure. In this case it's a preslotta base Chaos Warrior called Drakar Deathbringer which was released 1983 as member #6 of speciality set (http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/c2s1chaosw.htm) 2 for Champions of Chaos. That makes him older than me, and before you bring forth any threats I promise to never convert him. :p

I bought the miniature for the decent price, good looks and the humour of putting a mini-Chaos Warrior amongst modern ones, but how about the lead? I've heard that slotta base lead alloy miniatures should be sealed by paint on the figure, and with glue beneath the slot-in metal in the base to prevent any lead particles from escaping. That shouldn't be an issue with preslotta minis.

Do you have any tips?

-Loki-
02-12-2012, 23:20
The lead models weren't really a massive health concern. Just don't eat them.

Karak Norn Clansman
03-12-2012, 08:28
The lead models weren't really a massive health concern. Just don't eat them.

I swear I won't eat them. :D

But is there anything specific with painting or assembly of lead models that one should be aware of apart from potential health issues? Or is it just business as usual akin to other metal miniatures?

williamsond
03-12-2012, 08:53
As i young child i licked chewed and sniffed them for years and I'm fine ... twitch ...twitch

williamsond
03-12-2012, 08:55
to be serious though, just try not to ingest the lead if you saw or file the models, but even then the health risk is minimal. To reach the workplace exposure limit or WEL you would have to take quite alot of lead into your system over a short period of time.

Urgat
03-12-2012, 09:10
I swear I won't eat them. :D

But is there anything specific with painting or assembly of lead models that one should be aware of apart from potential health issues? Or is it just business as usual akin to other metal miniatures?

No difference. They might be a bit softer than white metal depending on the range (making them more bendy but also easier to clean), or they might be even harder, but that aside, treat as usual.

SteveW
03-12-2012, 09:25
The problem comes from handling lead and then rubbing your eyes. Dont do that or eat them as others have said and you should be fine, I played with lead figures as a child and am only slightly messed up :)

Griefbringer
03-12-2012, 11:28
They might be a bit softer than white metal depending on the range (making them more bendy but also easier to clean), or they might be even harder, but that aside, treat as usual.

In my experience, all of the lead-containing GW/Citadel miniatures that I have handled have been softer than their later (1997 onwards) lead-free versions. Excessive use of force can result in slightly bent pieces, though these can be usually corrected in the same fashion.

As for health issues, after handling lead miniatures make sure to wash your hands to get rid of any lead particles that might have ended up on them (not relevant once the models have been painted). And when cleaning the models, take care to collect any shaved off metal in a safe container.

BTJ
03-12-2012, 11:41
Glue the model to a base, put on something like a cardboard box that you can carry and get spray paint on, wash your hands and then Spray the mini. After that you're golden

Scalebug
03-12-2012, 12:13
Seriously, there are no realistic hazards with old miniatures... or new ones. Resin in particular has this "Oh, you gotta wear mask!" thing going on by pretentious people who have heard there are dangers but not understood it, and just want to sound knowledgeable.

You get a much larger doze of toxins in you by walking down the street or eating fish than handling an old lead mini... :p

Urgat
03-12-2012, 12:16
Seriously, there are no realistic hazards with old miniatures...

You say that because you've never had two ranks of the 4th ed plastic speargoblins stuck in the forearm :p

Scalebug
03-12-2012, 12:17
Well, of course, there is that...

williamsond
03-12-2012, 12:26
agreed those little plastic buggers were leathal

Griefbringer
03-12-2012, 15:02
If you think those spear goblins were scary, consider a meeting with the old plastic chaos dwarf models with their spiky hats.

With the spear goblins, there was at least a possibility of the spears breaking if you would step on them.

Sheena Easton
03-12-2012, 19:38
Looks like they based the Heroquest Chaos Sorceror off Arkon Stormrider (http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/c2s1chaosw.htm). Not really relevant or helpful but interesting.

Lars Porsenna
04-12-2012, 04:02
The only thing I would add here is that it is best to make sure the figure is thoroughly primed. Although there is no real difference in painting techniques, lead alloy is susceptible to "Lead Rot" where the lead oxidizes into a fine white powdery mess. A thorough prime job and storing the figures in a low-acid environment (or one that can breathe) will help prevent this.

Damon.

decker_cky
04-12-2012, 05:09
Looks like they based the Heroquest Chaos Sorceror off Arkon Stormrider (http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/c2s1chaosw.htm). Not really relevant or helpful but interesting.

Not sure the exact timing, but there's a bunch of models like that. The chaos warriors were very similar to some chaos warrior sculpts, and the gargoyle was pretty much the same as a bloodthirster model.

-Loki-
04-12-2012, 05:39
You say that because you've never had two ranks of the 4th ed plastic speargoblins stuck in the forearm :p

One of the staff at my local GW went to grab a handful of those from the table and wound up with spearpoints under all 4 fingernails.

Karak Norn Clansman
04-12-2012, 09:14
The only thing I would add here is that it is best to make sure the figure is thoroughly primed. Although there is no real difference in painting techniques, lead alloy is susceptible to "Lead Rot" where the lead oxidizes into a fine white powdery mess. A thorough prime job and storing the figures in a low-acid environment (or one that can breathe) will help prevent this.

Damon.

Thanks! This was the kind of issue I wondered about. Must the model be primed with spray paint, or is it enough with a thorough, painted basecoat applied to the whole miniature?


One of the staff at my local GW went to grab a handful of those from the table and wound up with spearpoints under all 4 fingernails.
Darn, and here I bought some of those cheap speargobbos along with the '83 Chaos Warrior. Would you recommend armoured gloves and plate forearm armour? :p

williamsond
04-12-2012, 09:35
I've never seen this before "lead alloy is susceptible to "Lead Rot" where the lead oxidizes into a fine white powdery mess" and I've been dealing with lead figures for about 22 years now. Now I'm not saying it doesn't happen or doubting anything that Lars has said I'm sure he's right, but I wouldn't get too worried about it, a quick undercoat/ prime will be fine then just paint and treat as normal.

xxRavenxx
04-12-2012, 09:54
I've never seen this before "lead alloy is susceptible to "Lead Rot" where the lead oxidizes into a fine white powdery mess" and I've been dealing with lead figures for about 22 years now. Now I'm not saying it doesn't happen or doubting anything that Lars has said I'm sure he's right, but I wouldn't get too worried about it, a quick undercoat/ prime will be fine then just paint and treat as normal.

Its something you should google, and has been discussed many times.

It DOES happen. It DOESNT happen often.

It seems to be a freak chemical reaction which occurs in some models/formulas. Some people think its a myth, some people think it will destroy all models of value at the drop of a hat like some silent predator :p

Its worth considering with an expensive model though, I think.

oldmechanic
04-12-2012, 13:51
if you want it to stay together permenantely, use a soldering iron to put it together IF you would like.

KidDiscordia
04-12-2012, 16:35
Thanks! This was the kind of issue I wondered about. Must the model be primed with spray paint, or is it enough with a thorough, painted basecoat applied to the whole miniature?


All you are trying to do is encapsulate the lead with a coating so it can be primer or a good basecoat. The Primer may stick a little better and help follow-on coats of paint stick, but either method will work.

Lars Porsenna
04-12-2012, 19:16
Its something you should google, and has been discussed many times.

It DOES happen. It DOESNT happen often.

It seems to be a freak chemical reaction which occurs in some models/formulas. Some people think its a myth, some people think it will destroy all models of value at the drop of a hat like some silent predator :p

Its worth considering with an expensive model though, I think.

To whit: http://www.blmablog.com/2011/08/reprise-lead-rot-myth-or-reality.html

I think it is worth considering with any lead alloy model you want to keep for a long time. I see minis as an investment, and with care should last as long as (or even longer) than I will! It is not my intention of starting a lead alloy minis panic (I have never encountered lead rot since I became involved with minis in the mid '80s). But if you care about what you're doing, it's not a bad thing to take simple and common-sense precautions against. In all likelihood these precautions won't be needed, but woe the day decades from now when your mini starts disintegrating because you didn't take the precaution!

Damon.

wilsongrahams
04-12-2012, 23:19
In most cases this Lead Rot is simply oxidation of the outer layer and will not happen if the model is painted. Any paint will suffice in this instance to keep the air off it.

Regarding health issues - any heavy metal (mercury, lead, etc) stays in your system your entire life and it is the level of it that is cause for convern, not how much you have in one go. 'Lead' miniatures did not actually contain all that much lead, but a small proportion to help the metal flow in the mold easier. Probably a quarter at best though different companies and the price at the time could affect this!

I don't know how old you are, but most people have more lead in their systems from old petrol (leaded) that was thrown out of cars than from ever handling lead, unless you repaired roofs for a living or made miniatures.

To summarise, just wash your hands (and the mini for that matter as it could have years of finger grease on it by now) before eating and don't put the lead anywhere that tends to absorb things - eyes, mouth etc.

-Loki-
05-12-2012, 00:33
if you want it to stay together permenantely, use a soldering iron to put it together IF you would like.

Well, if you want a puddle of lead. The heat needed to make lead peices stick together is extremely close to its melting point. Too far, and you'll just reduce what you are trying to solder to a puddle.

mrtn
06-12-2012, 12:34
'Lead' miniatures did not actually contain all that much lead, but a small proportion to help the metal flow in the mold easier. Probably a quarter at best though different companies and the price at the time could affect this!
I don't know about other companies, but the metal Prince August sells for home casting contains 60% lead and 40% tin, and it did 20 years ago as well.