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AdeptusAstartes
05-12-2012, 14:28
Hi guys!


I've recently just began to slowly build an army (4 days ago) and I am planning to start a Space Marine Black Templars Chapter army.


So far I've bought the set which contains 10 Marines and a Drop Pod. Managed to fix/paint up most of the marines myself, leaving only the drop pod.


I'm looking to actively play in the future, but I have no clue where to start. I've read up on some websites about Black Templar List Archetypes and I've decided to go with the Drop Pod Assault. But the website http://www.implausiblenature.net/bt-101-where-to-start.html says that this is mainly for a 5th Edition army. I'm wondering if this is viable for the 6th Edition.


Also, I saw the competitive 6th Edition Army list here: http://www.implausiblenature.net/bt-101-building-another-competitive-6th-edition-list.html and I'm not sure if I should use this one or find a list for the drop pod assault (assuming it is still viable in 6th Edition).


Just want to say thanks for the help that I can get and I'll really appreciate it if some of you pros can help out a newbie but be gentle on the acronyms and all, I still have a lot of stuff to learn.

IcedCrow
05-12-2012, 14:30
First set of questions:

1) are you wanting to win tournaments and/or is winning the most important aspect of your army?

2) are you more or less playing casually and for fun or narratively?

AdeptusAstartes
05-12-2012, 14:56
Icedcrow:

Thanks for the reply.

Nope, winning tournaments is not my concern at all. Maybe in the future, but not right now. But in casual games, definitely wouldn't mind winning!

I'm more for playing casually and more for fun.

IcedCrow
05-12-2012, 15:04
Cool. Based off of that, I would say that a drop pod army can still be viable in 6th edition if you choose to go that route. From a competitive tournament stand point I would say that you're better off with a different army but if you're going for casual and fun, I say go for the drop pods if that's what you like!

Most important thing I'd say is to build an army list or review one you found (as you have pointed out above) and then obtain the models that you need. That keeps you focused on what you need to get model-wise, as the collection range is pretty large and can be daunting at first.

A.T.
05-12-2012, 15:05
I've decided to go with the Drop Pod Assault. But the website http://www.implausiblenature.net/bt-101-where-to-start.html says that this is mainly for a 5th Edition army. I'm wondering if this is viable for the 6th Edition.Contrary to what the website stats, the templars do need to bring their drop pods in on the 1st turn like everyone else (6th ed errata 1.1).

While you can make a perfectly reasonable drop army be aware that you don't have much to actually put in the pods - templar squads only bring a single assault weapon and are quite vulnerable to being charged, so you get little initial punch on landing.

AdeptusAstartes
05-12-2012, 22:42
Cool. Based off of that, I would say that a drop pod army can still be viable in 6th edition if you choose to go that route. From a competitive tournament stand point I would say that you're better off with a different army but if you're going for casual and fun, I say go for the drop pods if that's what you like!

Most important thing I'd say is to build an army list or review one you found (as you have pointed out above) and then obtain the models that you need. That keeps you focused on what you need to get model-wise, as the collection range is pretty large and can be daunting at first.

Wow okay! Thanks for the advice man! Really appreciate it.

I know each squad has it's own points or something like that. Can I find that in the Codex?

Death Company
05-12-2012, 23:56
Wow okay! Thanks for the advice man! Really appreciate it.

I know each squad has it's own points or something like that. Can I find that in the Codex?

Correct. Your Templar codex will have all wargear options - and prices - for you to make your list. Then you'll just need the rulebook, and you're good to go.

Welcome to the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes, brother.

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 00:23
Correct. Your Templar codex will have all wargear options - and prices - for you to make your list. Then you'll just need the rulebook, and you're good to go.

Welcome to the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes, brother.

Thanks for the help! Will get to building a list soon.

But inbetween now and getting a codex, should I just fix up the Marines that I have according to whatever pleases me? Like I currently have 4 bolters, 1 plasma, 1 melta, 1 flamer and 1 rocket launcher marine all assembled. Should I just fix up the other two as I please?

IcedCrow
06-12-2012, 00:26
A tactical squad is typically not going to have that many special weapons in it. I don't know if that's a valid configuration for anything as I've not read the Black Templar codex.

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 00:51
Ah snap. Knew I was overdoing something.

But I can use the models for different squads yeah? Not necessary that these 10 have to stick together forever.

A.T.
06-12-2012, 08:42
I don't know if that's a valid configuration for anything as I've not read the Black Templar codex.One special weapon per squad, regardless of size (except for command squads). Templars are not really much of an alpha-strike list.


Adeptus - make sure you have the newest FAQ from games workshop as there are a lot of changes.

duffybear1988
06-12-2012, 12:00
Some may hate me for this, but have you considered using the standard Space Marine codex and just painting your marines as Black Templars?

The SM codex allows you to do pretty much everything the BT one does, apart from mixing scouts in with basic marines, or taking an emperor's champion. Personally I always found scouts better on their own anyway, and the emperor's champion is a weak hero. Not to mention that you now also need to take another character as well as your necessary HQ choice.

It's all up to you really.

Just know that Black Templars are a hard army to win with, and their book is so outdated that if you are just getting started, their rules can be harder to follow.

My advice is go with your gut instinct and do what you want. I saw that IcedCrow had given you the relaxed gamers approach, and all credit to him, he knows what he likes and what works in his gaming groups. I come from a tournament background, and know what some people can be like in the tournament environment. If you find yourself in that environment be prepared to lose badly - sometimes people claim to go to relaxed clubs but then when you get there it turns into a massive all out total war with slagging matches, people bending rules, etc. It happens, and it's never pretty if you are just starting out. And actually on rare occasions, some people may claim to be hardcore tournie gamers, but turn out to be really nice people who are quite willing to cut you some slack at the beginning and help you get to grip with the basics, and teach you some of the neat tricks that are around.

Are you playing with friends or at a local club? Have you visited it to see what the armies are like there? If not, I would advise popping along to see what's going on, and maybe have a practice game, or get to know some of the locals. Often this is also a good way of sourcing bits you may need when you are starting out, and getting hold of an extra plasmagun or whatever is a priority without spending too much.

IcedCrow
06-12-2012, 12:43
that's why I asked if he was going to be doing tournaments or doing casual relaxed games :D

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 13:20
Some may hate me for this, but have you considered using the standard Space Marine codex and just painting your marines as Black Templars?

The SM codex allows you to do pretty much everything the BT one does, apart from mixing scouts in with basic marines, or taking an emperor's champion. Personally I always found scouts better on their own anyway, and the emperor's champion is a weak hero. Not to mention that you now also need to take another character as well as your necessary HQ choice.

It's all up to you really.

Just know that Black Templars are a hard army to win with, and their book is so outdated that if you are just getting started, their rules can be harder to follow.

My advice is go with your gut instinct and do what you want. I saw that IcedCrow had given you the relaxed gamers approach, and all credit to him, he knows what he likes and what works in his gaming groups. I come from a tournament background, and know what some people can be like in the tournament environment. If you find yourself in that environment be prepared to lose badly - sometimes people claim to go to relaxed clubs but then when you get there it turns into a massive all out total war with slagging matches, people bending rules, etc. It happens, and it's never pretty if you are just starting out. And actually on rare occasions, some people may claim to be hardcore tournie gamers, but turn out to be really nice people who are quite willing to cut you some slack at the beginning and help you get to grip with the basics, and teach you some of the neat tricks that are around.

Are you playing with friends or at a local club? Have you visited it to see what the armies are like there? If not, I would advise popping along to see what's going on, and maybe have a practice game, or get to know some of the locals. Often this is also a good way of sourcing bits you may need when you are starting out, and getting hold of an extra plasmagun or whatever is a priority without spending too much.

Hmmm. I haven't really considered that. Hmm. Okay. I was reading on 1d4chan.org that the EC was actually an excellent hero. Guess it's all up to personal opinion then?

I'm definitely more of a relaxed gamer. I have been to the local shop (Battle Bunker) and I saw them having a few battles. I have seen all the armies on the display shelf (they take it out to play too) and yeah I'm pretty set on painting my SMs as Black Templar, but I never really knew that I could just use the SM Codex and just play with a BT army.

Infact my local club is holding a tournament this Saturday, 1500 point battle. I'm popping down by to see what it's really like in a tournament setting with a friend.

My friend actually kinda made me interested to the table-top game, that's why I'm collecting it now. I don't think I will be taking part in tournaments, I'm more for playing with friends, maybe playing at the local club. No tournaments for me for the time being anyway.

My friend actually bought the DV set and he is collecting his own CSM army. His girlfriend bought a 1500 point Eldar army. We're probably playing together against each other in the near future.

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 13:26
Also, was thinking of going with 1,000 point list. What do you guys think?

* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." [140]

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]


Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 7 Initiates w/ 5 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun, 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon & Frag Grenades; 2 Neophytes w/ 2 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor. [219]
* Crusader Squad: 8 Initiates w/ 6 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun, 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon & Frag Grenades; 2 Neophytes w/ 2 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor. [236]


Fast Attack:
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 13:29
Some may hate me for this, but have you considered using the standard Space Marine codex and just painting your marines as Black Templars?

The SM codex allows you to do pretty much everything the BT one does, apart from mixing scouts in with basic marines, or taking an emperor's champion. Personally I always found scouts better on their own anyway, and the emperor's champion is a weak hero. Not to mention that you now also need to take another character as well as your necessary HQ choice.


It's all up to you really.


Just know that Black Templars are a hard army to win with, and their book is so outdated that if you are just getting started, their rules can be harder to follow.


My advice is go with your gut instinct and do what you want. I saw that IcedCrow had given you the relaxed gamers approach, and all credit to him, he knows what he likes and what works in his gaming groups. I come from a tournament background, and know what some people can be like in the tournament environment. If you find yourself in that environment be prepared to lose badly - sometimes people claim to go to relaxed clubs but then when you get there it turns into a massive all out total war with slagging matches, people bending rules, etc. It happens, and it's never pretty if you are just starting out. And actually on rare occasions, some people may claim to be hardcore tournie gamers, but turn out to be really nice people who are quite willing to cut you some slack at the beginning and help you get to grip with the basics, and teach you some of the neat tricks that are around.


Are you playing with friends or at a local club? Have you visited it to see what the armies are like there? If not, I would advise popping along to see what's going on, and maybe have a practice game, or get to know some of the locals. Often this is also a good way of sourcing bits you may need when you are starting out, and getting hold of an extra plasmagun or whatever is a priority without spending too much.

I've never really thought of just using a SM Codex while painting my marines as BT.

I read on 1d4chan that ECs are actually pretty strong, but I don't know anything about the game so I could be wrong.

I'm definitely a casual player, not a tournament one. I'll be playing casually with friends. Infact my friend is collecting a CSM army while his girlfriend is collecting an Eldar army. We'll probably be playing against each other.

I have been down to the local club, that's where I got my first set. They're having a tournament this weekend so I'm gonna drop by and just look at how tournament play is like.

A.T.
06-12-2012, 13:35
Also, was thinking of going with 1,000 point list. What do you guys think?You need to sink another 100-200 points into your compulsory HQ (the champion doesn't count).

IcedCrow
06-12-2012, 13:44
Tournament play doesn't play much differently from casual play. Its a good place to meet some cool people actually.

The two main differences I have found in tournament play:

1) more focus on the rules and making sure everything is done right, measurements perfect, etc

2) the army lists tend to be same-ish power builds from the power build codices. Meaning you will see the same basic builds across most of the tables and a couple of army types / races will be seen a lot more. You will see a lot more grey knights, space wolves, blood angels, and necrons at a tournament than anything else because those are the current power armies that are the easiest to win with. A casual list would have a very hard time taking on these handful of power lists and even lasting most of the game.

Tournaments can be fun, especially with the right people. If you ever plan on participating in one just be aware that they are about optimization over aesthetics. I encourage anyone to try them because it may be something you enjoy.

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 13:47
You need to sink another 100-200 points into your compulsory HQ (the champion doesn't count).

Hmm okay. So if I field a Marshal in, would that mean I have to remove something from the list?

IcedCrow
06-12-2012, 13:51
Hmm okay. So if I field a Marshal in, would that mean I have to remove something from the list?

Yep. The overall list has to be under the points limit.

AdeptusAstartes
06-12-2012, 14:06
Yep. The overall list has to be under the points limit.
And I can't remove the EC because it's required... Hmm.

Maybe I'll make a 1500 list after all.

duffybear1988
06-12-2012, 18:41
Also, was thinking of going with 1,000 point list. What do you guys think?

* Emperor's Champion w/ Black Sword, Bolt Pistol, Armor of Faith, and the Vow: "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." [140]

Yep you have hit the first problem with the templars. The silly requirement for an extra HQ can be quite annoying at small points levels. You could try taking Abhor the witch, destroy the witch, to give you a few more points for another HQ.

Elites:
* Sword Brethren Terminators: 5 Terminators w/ 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, 5 Storm Bolters, 5 Power Fists, and Tank-Hunters. [265]

These are fine in both competative and casual play. If you need to shave a few points to get an extra HQ then drop tank hunters.

Troops:
* Crusader Squad: 7 Initiates w/ 5 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun, 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon & Frag Grenades; 2 Neophytes w/ 2 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor. [219]
* Crusader Squad: 8 Initiates w/ 6 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 1 Meltagun, 1 Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon & Frag Grenades; 2 Neophytes w/ 2 Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons & Frag Grenades. Mounted in a Rhino w/ Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor. [236]

Drop the extra armour on the Rhinos. In this edition it does very little and Rhinos die very quickly regardless. Still they are necessary to provide some speed and cover. I presume you are taking power axes on the marines - these are by far the coolest looking and rules wise.

In a smaller points game you could drop one of the squads and replace it with an infantry squad equipped with a plasma gun and either a missile or lascannon. These can be a big help because you don't need to field a squad of 10 to take the heavy weapon. Many Black Templars players run a squad of 5 Initiates with a lascannon and plasmagun. I like to add in 2 Neophytes with shotguns because shotguns are cool and provide you with a couple of meatshields for the squad and some extra overwatch shooting. This squad type will not need frag grenades so that saves you a few more points as well.

Fast Attack:
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]
* Land Speeder Squadron: 1 Land Speeder w/ 1 Heavy Bolter and 1 Typhoon Missile Launcher. [70]

These are great! Land Speeders are super cool and in a templars army they are cheap as well. You could try upgrading the heavy bolter to a multi melta, but come the new codex, this wil mean that the price of your Speeders will sky rocket to 100 points a piece.


I like the list - it's a solid base to start with, and with a few tweaks, it could be a reasonable army to run in small tournaments if you ever fancy it.

You do need an extra HQ however, and that is where things are going to get interesting.

These are some of the options I have regularly used in small games -

1) 1 Reclusiarch with bolt pistol and frag grenades.
If you go with this guy then drop an Initiate and stick him with a squad in a Rhino. He can work wonders thanks to his fearless rules and his re-rolls in combat. He's even better if you put him in a squad with the EC.

2) 1 Castellan in terminator armour with some cheap equipment like a power sword and combi weapon.
You could drop a Terminator from your squad and make them a Terminator Command Squad for this guy. His Ld9 is good because the rest of your army will be Ld8. Alternatively if you can get the points, the Marshal is even better.

Whatever you choose in the end, have fun.

Schismotive
06-12-2012, 19:31
Our troops choices can't have a meltagun and a power weapon unfortunately, we can only take one of the two. Also I usually don't buy frag grenades anymore, I'd love to have them but the extra 15-30 points could go to much more important things. Besides our basic marines aren't very good, and usually don't want to be assaulting anyone anyway lol.

And yeah the HQ thing really sucks about templars, we really got shafted by 6th ed. I would recommend using a marshal though, since he gives Ld 10 to your entire army which still takes people by surprise :D

A.T.
06-12-2012, 20:06
Our troops choices can't have a meltagun and a power weapon unfortunately, we can only take one of the two.They can - it's the heavy weapon that gets dropped for the power weapon.

Schismotive
07-12-2012, 19:42
Oh that's right, I forgot haha. I'm so used to not ever needing power weapons these days lol