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Kahadras
08-06-2005, 22:54
I cannot remember where I heard it but the general concensus for High Elves is that they have to either dominate the magic and shooting phase or have a highly mobile army in order to win. I don't know if this is a rumour or not but I have decided to try to base my army round a blend of these two ideas. So without futher ado...

Archmage + Extra level, Annulian crystal, Starwood staff and Jewel of the dusk = 350p

This guy will hopefully provide the main power behind my magical barrage. I have tried to balance the character between agressive casting (using the Jewel of dusk and Starwood staff to give him a better chance of getting spells off) and defencive work (using Annulian crystal to steal my opponants magic dice).

Mage + Extra level and 2 dispel scrolls = 170p

Backs up the Archmage and is your basic scroll caddy. His main role will be to aid the Archmage in supressing any nasty spells that I don't want my opponant to cast.

Mage + Extra level and Ring of fury = 160p

This guy is the opposite of the first mage. He will support the magical assault and attempt to get his Ring of fury off every turn (hopefully drawing out more dispel dice).

Commander + Pure of heart, Swordmaster and heavy armor = 114p

My only fighting character and will have to get stuck in when the opposing forces reach my line (hopefully depleated due to magic and missile fire). Due to his ability to strike in initative order with his double handed weapon I will be relying on him cutting down opponants before they get a chance to attack (due to low toughness and armor).

8 Silver helms + FC, shields and War banner = 223p

8 Silver helms + FC and shields = 203p

My fast moving strike force. They will be positioned on the flanks of the army and they will move to flank my opponant. If my opponants tries to pull the same trick as me then the units will hopefully keep the flanks busy untill my Mages and missile fire have blown away my enemy's center. Their modest save (3+) and lances should be enough to overcome all but the strongest units.

19 Spearmen + FC (+ Archmage) = 239p

Form the bodyguard of my Archmage. Hopefully they will not be asked to take part in much fighting but could add their weight at a crucial point in the battle (maybe to swing the balance in a combat with a flank charge). They will be positioned in the center of the battleline where the Archmage can have a good LOS.

19 Swordmasters + FC, Amulet of the purifying flame and Banner of sorcery (+ Commander) = 342p

This is my premier close combat force. With double handed swords and the Commander in the front rank they can take on quite a lot and come out on top (I hope). The standard of sorcery is present to give me an even greater edge in the magic phase (which will be vital to the success of this army). This unit will flank the Spearmen ready to move forward and engage enemy units as they get to close for comfort.

2 Bolt throwers = 200p

Will shoot stuff basicaly; they will be deployed behind the main battleline in order to protect them from any unwanted attention.

The basic tactic of the army is to pulverise the enemy using the magic from the three mages and the Bolt throwers while encircling the rest of the force using the Silver helms. The 2 foot units will provide support and will wade in if needed.

Total army cost = 2001p

Power dice = 10 +1 for Jewel of dusk, +D3 for Banner of sorcery.
Dispel dice = 6 +1 from Annulian crystal.

So any thoughts, changes, comments etc would be welcome.

Kahadras

Major Defense
09-06-2005, 05:01
Your mages are priced wrong...
mage (95) 2nd level (35) dispel scroll (20) dispel scroll (20) - 170
mage (95) 2nd level (35) Ring of Fury (30) - 160
...so I just saved you 15 points there.

Your commander would be better with...
Armor of the Gods (35) and a Halberd (4)
...exact same results but 3+ armor save and 5 points cheaper.

A little more reworking and you should be able to afford heavy armor for your Silver Helms. I could write paragraph after paragraph about the potential holes in your strategy but you will learn more by playing and finding out what works best for you.

Kahadras
09-06-2005, 12:26
Your absolutly right about the mages. I asked someone how much dispel magic scrolls were when I was making my list (could not be bothered to turn to the magic item section) and they said 25 points. I forgot that HE get cheaper magic items and so just wrote down 50 for the 2. Ho hum lessons should be learnt from this. Additionaly one should not go for the ring of Corin then change his mind half way through and still write down the cost for it under the ring of Fury. More silly mistakes I suppose. So I still have 15 points left to play with yay.


Your commander would be better with...

Sorry to look like a total idiot but where is Armour of the Gods as I cannot find it in the magic items section. If it is from a supliment then will it be still legal to field it without an opponants permission?
As for tactics it has been pointed out that my army lacks manuverability so I was thinking of taking a couple of Great Eagles to hunt down any small units that try to infiltrait my battleline and slow it down. I could switch them in for a Bolt thrower or remove some magic items from my characters. I really do need some insight as Warhammer has gone through two editions since I last played it. Thanks for the advice so far and I'll ajust my list via edit.

Kahadras

Warlord Queek
10-06-2005, 12:11
The dominating magic is really the strongest side of the High ELves. I don't play HE, but played against them often enough and I always got butchered by magic... :cries: .
But I hadn't expected anything else: I played Empire!
Armor of the Gods is from a supplement in the Chronicles 2004

Kahadras
10-06-2005, 12:29
I assume Armour of the Gods gives you a 3+ armour save then. I'll try to find out the points cost, any down sides etc and maybe swich stuff around. The other thing that has suprised me is that nobody has stopped the other error in my army that I only noticed last night when reading through the magic items section of the Warhammer rulebook. According to page 153 only ONE arcane item may be taken by each wizard character and my Archmage has three. Damn. Oh well I'll rejig the list when I get chance (probably tonight)

Kahadras

Sariel
10-06-2005, 18:32
Some comments:

1) The Commander? Yeah - already covered.

2) Silver Helms - they're too darned big to use as support units/flankers. Drop the standard and the champion, and get 3 units of 5 with musicians. They hit hard, have a respectable armour save and are pretty cheap too.

3) Use the points you've just freed up to beef up the Spear Elves. A nice big unit of 27 would do nicely.. a LOT scarier than a unit of 20. Also, might want to give them the War Banner instead - the Spear Elves are going to need the additional +1 to combat resolution a lot more than the Helms.

4) Might also want to consider trimming back the Swordmasters. A unit of 20 (including the Commander) is a bit of a waste, imho, since you'll probably be deploying them 4 or 5 wide. Swordmasters are too expensive to just sit in the back ranks. A unit of 18 (6 wide, 3 ranks) might be better....

5) Eagles are nice, but squeezing in the points might be tricky. Possibly drop one unit of 5 Helms, increase the remaining two units to 6 and spend the points on an Eagle?

Crazy Harborc
11-06-2005, 02:24
Be ready to change units around. Don't use the exact same army everytime. Your opponents will build their armies to exactly combat/off set you army. When an opponent uses large units or small more numerous ones, match them if you can. Just don't be predictable.

Major Defense
11-06-2005, 14:17
I assume Armour of the Gods gives you a 3+ armour save then. I'll try to find out the points cost, any down sides etc and maybe swich stuff around. The other thing that has suprised me is that nobody has stopped the other error in my army that I only noticed last night when reading through the magic items section of the Warhammer rulebook. According to page 153 only ONE arcane item may be taken by each wizard character and my Archmage has three. Damn. Oh well I'll rejig the list when I get chance (probably tonight)

Kahadras

Check the UK site for the...Annulian campaign? I'm not sure if that is the name. Anyway, the HE got three magic items from that campaign. Two of them aren't worth mentioning but the Armor of the Gods is great.

35 points
characters on foot only
3+ unmodifiable armor save (no additional armor allowed)
+1 strength

Give your Commander character a halberd and now he has S6 attacks. Better yet, give your Prince character the Swordmaster honor and now you have S7 attacks! Though I find Tyrion to be the best model in the game for tearing chariots apart.

Kahadras
11-06-2005, 21:51
OK thanks for that. I did a bit of list rejigging and came up with this...

Archmage + extra level, Seer, Jewel of the Dusk, Dispel scroll and Guardian Phoenix = 330p

Mage + extra level and Annulian Crystal = 170p

Mage + extra level and Ring of Fury = 160p

Commander + Armour of the Gods and Sword of Might = 124p

19 Spearmen + FC and Warbanner = 259p (with Archmage)

14 Swordmasters + FC and Banner of Sorcery = 262p (with Commander)

5 Silver helms + standard bearer and shields = 119p

5 Silver helms + standard bearer and shields = 119p

5 Silver helms + champion and shields = 119p

5 Ellyran Reavers + bows and spears = 90p

1 Bolt Thrower = 100p

2 Great Eagles = 100p

There we go. Hopefully I have incorperated everybodies ideas into this. I have beefed up the Spearmen slightly (giving them the War banner) and toned down the Swordmasters (reducing their numbers). I have outfited my Commander with Armour of the Gods and given him a Sword of Might to up his strength to 6. I have moved magic items around on my mages in order to make them legal and have split up my Silver helms into 3 groups of 5. I added in some other elements into my army such as the Reavers and Eagles. I am hoping the list will be quite flexible as in, for instance, I could combine 2 squads of Silver helms to make a big block if I needed to or drop 2 Eagles for another Bolt thrower.
So what do people think of the new and improved list?

Kahadras

Major Defense
12-06-2005, 12:38
Archmage + extra level, Seer, Jewel of the Dusk, Dispel scroll and Guardian Phoenix = 330p

Mage + extra level and Annulian Crystal = 170p

Mage + extra level and Ring of Fury = 160p

Commander + Armour of the Gods and Sword of Might = 124p

Seer on an archmage? I've seen others consider this but if you're looking for a specific spell on any list you're likely to get it with four chances and the default spell to give you literally a one-in-six chance of not getting it. The Guardian Phoenix concerns me too. Do you expect this guy to end up getting cut down in combat?

Why not tack another dispel scroll onto the 2nd mage?

The commander is better but you're still wasting points on the 15 point Sword of Might when a 4 point halberd will have the same effect. It's not like he can hold a shield in that other hand. You might consider taking a variety of weapons to ensure that he wounds on a 2+ against different opponents (or consider the enemy army list). His base S5 with the armor is good enough against T3, the halberd could be used on T4 and if he had a great weapon he'd keep 2+ wounds on T5. I'd say dump the Sword of Might and get him an extra hand weapon, halberd and great weapon. Or just one or two of them if you know what you're up against.

Tezzmaniak
13-06-2005, 20:40
Well that list looks good. I must say that I like to play with chariots. they are the best support for you infantry as well as you cav. An eagle is a must, It's fun to play with and will marchblock you enemy, giving you time to do some magic damage. One might do the trick, leaving you points for a chariot ;-)

good luck

TheDrugLordX
14-06-2005, 21:53
Personally, I don't like your list. To much magic and the force is to mixed, I really don't see where you have your strenghts. Well, enough whining and now I'll let you know what I think of the list :p

1) Archamge. Seer? he'll most likely get the spells you want anyhow (hope you're playing with the lore of high, definately one of the best in this game). Drop the seer, and if you really want to be sure that you get the spells you want get him the Silver Wand. That's 20pts cheaper to put on other goodies. Also, Guardian Phenix? If he gets into CC, he's dead. Your opponent will direct all of his possible attacks at him and with his low characteristics his dead within a couple of rounds. Guardain Phenix is waste of pts, get some extra modells instead.

I would prefer if you dropped him, having people whining that you "cheese" is just not worth it. And with my experiance a Elf Prince is worth alot more. If you ever miscast with your archmage (which you surely will do) you loose such a big part of the game that might tip the tide into your opponents favour. Get another lvl 2 mage if you want the magic, and drop this guy. Or give him the Staff of Solidity, it's priceless!

2) Mages are OK. With all these scrolls and DD you don't need the crystal, drop it and give him the Channeler honor. This is a backup if your Archmage, for whatever reason, isn't allowed to cast spells. The Channeler makes it easier for your mage to cast those harder spells which you want to cast (ie, Flames of Phenix, Vauls Unmaking...), and with more power the harder your opponent has dispelling... It also works as a nice surprise. You roll 3 dice, casting the spell. Your opponent dispells the spell, but then you roll one more dice, overcomming his dispell roll. The look on his face when you do that is just to good to miss :)

3) Commander, alredy covered but whatever. Drop the Sword, give him a Halbard. that's 11 pts cheaper and allows for 15 pts more on magic items. Give him that book thingy (+1 LD within 6"). You'll need that LD when not playing with a prince.

4) Spearelves? Dunno, but think that 2 units of Archers would be more effective. You said you wanted to controll the shooting/magic phase and I don't see how you would controll the shooting phase. 2 units of archers combined with the Curse of Arrow Attraction spell from Lore of High means that you'll kill serius amounts of troops. Combined with two bolt throwers and your opponened will wish that he never was born.

5) Hmm... I think that two small elite units that co-ordinate their attacks work better than one little bigger one. Lower the swordmaster to a 10-12 big unit and get a 10-12 big unit of White Lions. Together with cavalry support they're going to be nasty. Though, with Eagles I donno what to do...

6) Uhm, drop all the banners on the silver helm units. You'll only regret that you gave your opponent all those extra VPs. Get banners on your infantry units and make these pure support units.

7) Get another bolt thrower, they rock!

Hope I helped! And good luck!

Kahadras
14-06-2005, 22:52
Personally, I don't like your list. To much magic and the force is to mixed, I really don't see where you have your strenghts.

Magic? Leading onto the Archmage I will drop seer in order to buy another dispel magic scroll. I cannon buy the Silver wand for the Archmage as he is only allowed one arcane item. The Guardian phoenix is there for stuff like Hochland long rifles and other bits and pieces of stuff which can directly target leaders. Additional it will serve to keep him alive for longer is I happen to get trapped in close combat. To be totaly cheese I could take the Book of Hoeth. All I would do if I took a prince would be to mount him on a Dragon and go for a heavily manuverable army with plenty of Silver helms, Ellyran reavers and Dragon princes. Then be accused of being cheesy for fielding that.
I only gave the commander the sword because I liked the idea more than the fact that I was shelling out a whole load more points for it. I have never found High Elf archers to be effective either (granted I only played a few games with them but still)


I think that two small elite units that co-ordinate their attacks work better than one little bigger one.

Won't that make them horribly suceptible to missile fire though? Swordmasters only have a toughness of 3 and a 5+ armour save.
I do agree that the list is no where near finnished. There are a lot of kinks that need to be worked out. Thanks for the feedback from everybody and keep the sugestions comming.

Kahadras

TheDrugLordX
15-06-2005, 19:09
The point of having small units is to deal as much damage as possible, So your ranks is not needed. Put them in a 5*2 (or 6*2) formation to maximize attacks.

Look on your swordmasters. a 15 man stron unit which is clearly overpriezed (due to full command group and banner). A few shooting casulties and they become no better then the units I just mentioned. So you mean that this unit could resist missile fire better? not a chance. Unfortunately, HE have no good screening units, so we're a bit screwed when the enemy has lots of missile fire. Usually, most opponents underistimate small fighting units, and direct fire on other units. Anyhow, if he starts shooting and your swordmasters they're screwed anyhow. Either you need a bigger unit (atleast 18, preferably more) or make em smaller and ad some other combat support unit. Also, White Lions resist missile fire better than swordmasters.

Yeah, sure. Magic is your armies strong side. Though, don't rely on it to much. I did that in a couple of games, and since then I have never taken an Archmage again (unless playing realyl huge battles). I miscasted casting my first spell. And the result was that he lost all his magic lvls. GREAT! your 400+pts character becomes worse than a spearelf with 3 wounds. I had almost no chance and was wiped out. I learned from this, and so took the Staff of Solidity, cause I knew how much dmg a miscast can do. Though, I miscasted more than once (as I usually do) and the outcome was disastrous! Relying on magic is to much a gamble for me, and a couple of tooled up lesser mages do just as good as the archmage, or even better for that sake. But that's only my experiance...