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Harbinger
29-12-2012, 16:34
I have been looking at allies for my CSM force. I have been using daemons, mainly due to having a bunch on hand, but I have found that they do not mix well on the tactics/strategy side. This is due to the lack of teleport homers and being shot up after deep striking or while walking.

I am not sure I I am simply using daemons incorrectly or if my view on the play style is accurate. Conversely, I have been thinking about getting IG as allies for mass fire power and meat shields. If anyone has had experience with these, advice is appreciated.

Sexiest_hero
29-12-2012, 16:50
Don't use the dimensional key with allies that count as enemies...... Stupid piece of crud.

dangerboyjim
29-12-2012, 17:24
You've already got cultists for meat shields, amd deamon engines for firepower.

But IG could still be a lot of fun, by modelling the squads as cultists you've got the option to run them as cultists, plus you get to add fun stuff like (un!)sanctioned psykers, vets in chimeras and some nice tanks and the spectacularly underprised and versatile Valkyrie/Vendetta.

You've also got the makings of a nice chaos IG army that you can expand on as the whim takes you, modelling chaos version of psykers, tanks, heavy weapons squads, ogryns etc. could be a lot of fun.


Or maybe... a small coven of Dark Eldar? Just because they are ace.

IcedCrow
29-12-2012, 17:36
Demons as allies are largely used as distractions. Simply put, when I land a unit of plague bearers behind you, you have a choice: spend a turn shooting at them (and indeed destroying them) or ignoring them and facing the consequences.

Models do not need to "make back their points" to be effective.

That being said, I also enjoy using guard allies to represent traitor guard. I don't use guard as meat shields. I use them because the visual of a renegade company of soldiers is fun, and having imperial tanks driving around blowing up imperials makes my sick rotten chaos-given heart smile.

Ssilmath
29-12-2012, 23:29
As IcedCrow pointed out, Daemons are more for giving them a threat that must be dealt with without delay. Any that survive are bonus, but it also means that their tactics are dictated for them.

Guard Allies are more than just meat shields. A couple Veteran Squads with melta/plasma/flamers in Chimeras is decent for running up a flank or supporting Rhinos moving forward. A Leman Russ adds some much needed firepower, and a Lord Commissar will keep those Veterans in place. If you have a less mobile army, then a platoon and some heavy weapon squads can help with maintaining your firebase.

NitrosOkay
30-12-2012, 04:17
Daemons of Tzeentch are more than distractions. Screamers and Flamers are incredibly threatening and cheap for what they do.

IcedCrow
30-12-2012, 04:39
That's true, demons of tzeentch are pushing the "broken" limits right now. Waiting patiently for the new demon codex supposedly enroute soon.

NitrosOkay
30-12-2012, 05:39
I also really like the Lord of Change in 6th. Swooping lets you get perfect shots with breath of chaos and rear armour with bolt and gaze. T6 3+ invulnerable and swooping lets him soak up an obnoxious amount of fire. I've been playing a list with Daemon allies with a Lord of Change, 5 horrors+Changeling, a unit of screamers and a unit of flamers.

Latro_
30-12-2012, 12:25
I'v found CSM make better allies for daemons than the other way round.

Give that a go.

Dr Morbius
30-12-2012, 12:47
Really? Could you please tell me how your lists look like? I'm doing the same currently and I struggle with very few units on the board if I have to go second.

Latro_
30-12-2012, 13:10
No worries:

1500pts

Lord of Change 255
Soul Devourer, Daemonic Gaze, Bolt of Tzeentch
Daemonic Flight, Instrument of Chaos

5 Pink Horrors 100
Bolt of Tzeentch, Warpfire, Changeling

5 Pink Horrors 95
Bolt of Tzeentch, Warpfire

5 Pink Horrors 95
Bolt of Tzeentch, Warpfire

5 Pink Horrors 95
Bolt of Tzeentch, Warpfire

5 Pink Horrors 95
Bolt of Tzeentch, Warpfire

4 Flamers 92
Breath of chaos, Warpfire

4 Flamers 92
Breath of chaos, Warpfire

Sorcerer 100
Mark of Slannesh, Force Weapon, Bolt pistol
Frag, Krak, Sigil Coruption

10 Chaos Space Marines 170
Bolters, Bolt pistols, Frag, Krak
2x Plasmaguns

Hellbrute 100
Multimelta, Powerfist

10 Havocs 210
2x Missile Launchers (Flakk), 2x Autocannons
Bolters, Bolt pistols, Frag, Krak

Played a few games with it, havocs and marines as a base, hellbrute in the middle the rest cause havoc/take objectives.

Pumps of a lot of firepower! Its not 'uber' competitive its basically spare stuff i had to make an army, works pretty well though.

It can deal with hordes with the flamers / warpfire from the horrors
It can deal with mech, 5 s8 ap1 shots, flamers can glance, havocs 2s8 4s7, plasmaguns and a multi melta.
It can deal with termies to an extent with all that ap1/2
Kinda ok against flyers (lucky bolt pop shots) and flakk

Its a bit stuffed in hth by the flamers dont worry about that, the LoC i'v found pretty annoying for people in hth and there is always the HB/marines with sor as a last stand in hth.

Also a bit boned agains A14 unless you mass glance em or get the HB in there. Flamers glance is useful here.

If i were to develop it more i'd prob have an aegis line with comms relay

Excessus
30-12-2012, 14:04
Latro I would most likely run a lvl 3 unmarked sorcerer as an ally in a daemon list. What you want is the biomancy and/or telepathy goodness. The codex powers are 'meh' at best...

Latro_
30-12-2012, 14:08
yea i was starting to notice that, biomancy is defo the way forward, good call (was getting used to new codex/6th when playing with this army) back on my orks atm.

Although the I5 came in handy a couple of times as i remember.

flemfilms
30-12-2012, 14:49
I've been a fluffy Death Guard player since 3rd edition. I've had a lot of luck and good games with Nurgle Daemons as allies and as a main army with DG as allies. That is with and without Epidemeous. I feel like Daemons exist as the arguement to why the 6th Ed allies rules exist. I don't think Daemons are very good on their own, and I don't think fluffy DG are good on thier own, but together they are tits!

Still not a tourni winner though. Who cares.

KR3LL
30-12-2012, 17:18
I've been a fluffy Death Guard player since 3rd edition. I've had a lot of luck and good games with Nurgle Daemons as allies and as a main army with DG as allies. That is with and without Epidemeous. I feel like Daemons exist as the arguement to why the 6th Ed allies rules exist. I don't think Daemons are very good on their own, and I don't think fluffy DG are good on thier own, but together they are tits!

Still not a tourni winner though. Who cares.

Care to share your list?

flemfilms
30-12-2012, 21:39
Sure thing. Here's 2 variations of 1850 tourni lists I'm thinking of using within the next month:

DG with Daemons
Lord: M Nurgle, Blight Gs, Black Mace, Sigil, and Gift
Sorcerer: M Nurgle, 2x mastery, Blight Gs, Sigil, Gift
Epidemius

Plague Marines x7, 2x Melta, PW + Gift, Rhino w/ Dirge
PM x10, Fist, 2x Plasma
PM x5, 2x flamers
Nuglings x6
Plague Bearers x5
PB x5

Spawn x3 w/ M Nurgle
Blight Drone

Havocs x8, 2x Autocannon, 2x Missile w/ Flakk, M Nurgle
Oblits x2 w/ M Nurgle

Ver 2
Daemons with Chaos
Epi
Ku'Goth
Chaos Lord same as above

Nurglings x 6
Nurglins x 3
PB x5
PM x7 same as above
PM x10 same as above

Spawn x3 M Nurgle
Blight Drone

Daeomn Prince, M Nurgle, Flight, Hide, Cloud, D Gaze
Oblits x2 M Nurgle.


As you can see everything in the list excpet the rhino counts toward and benefits from Epi's tally.
The most fun is when Epi's powers are going off and nurgling bases start eating everything on the board. I have exceptionally good luck with those little buggers even when they aren't boosted by Epi.

Now mind you this is a tourni list and is based on what I have 100% painted, but they both work well and are efficient.
Biggest weakness: Lots of flyers and Space Wolf Priests.

KR3LL
31-12-2012, 03:29
That's not too far off from my list.
I didnt have blight drones (I have the models but using them in tournaments are not normal)

Instead of a nurgle lord, been going with Typhus and 4 terminators.
No Havocs either.

Nikolaus
31-12-2012, 13:50
Am I the only one avoiding The Tally and going straight for Crons?

DestLord - SW, MSS, WS

5x Warriors - Scythe

6x Wraiths - 6x Coils

595 points and a solid CC unit that you can /try/ to take out or forget the rest of my army..

I dont play competitively and just for fun.. but i've had more games played with that as an ally, than when i ran the tally... when you butcher people so easily.. i find no-one wants to be your friend anymore

flemfilms
31-12-2012, 18:54
That's not too far off from my list.
I didnt have blight drones (I have the models but using them in tournaments are not normal)

Instead of a nurgle lord, been going with Typhus and 4 terminators.
No Havocs either.

Blight Drones are great because they are usually ignored, so they are a cheap unit to buzz around the table dropping templates.

The havocs are essential for me because they can take down flyers and I tend to target cheap foot sloggin troops to boost my tally quickly.

Typhus and Termies are too expensve in an 1850 list (says the guy who fields Ku'goth). But Ku'goth is always worth his points. Typhus not always. For example, in the last game I played Ku'goth took on Lysander and a 6 Termie bodyguard and won but it took 2 full turns (4 assault phases). That was worth his 300 points. He went on to tare up some other things too and was still kicking at the end of the game.