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View Full Version : Word Bearers Allies, Guard or Daemons?



Chapters Unwritten
31-12-2012, 15:17
I am beginning a Word Bearers army in the next few weeks and the Chaos side of it seems solid enough, but I definitely feel like I need allies. My inspiration was the depiction of the Battle of Calth in Know No Fear and to be perfectly honest I think it would be best with both of them, but there is no way to do that outside of spamming cultists and adding daemons. While the Daemons seem to fit well fluff-wise I hate to say it but without a way to summon them it feels a bit wonky. And they aren't nearly as durable or scary as the daemons seen in the book in a lot of cases.

The Word Bearers obviously have a lot of cultists and I think having guard that could mech up or use some heavier artillery is appealing in that regard. I wouldn't want it to be too Iron Warrior-ish so I'd probably stick to a mix of Mech Vets and Cultists, but I honestly haven't give the Guard idea much thought.

I think Daemons is fluffier but the list will suffer with them in it. Anyone got any good input on this?

IcedCrow
31-12-2012, 15:18
Tzeentch demons are broken powerful I hear ;)

ihavetoomuchminis
31-12-2012, 15:42
Is that even a question? Daemons, of course. I'm sick of seeing IG allied with absolutely EVERYBODY.

Chapters Unwritten
31-12-2012, 16:22
I am too, but I imagine I could have a much better army that way, at least in terms of options.

I hate the cultists because they are basically just a meatshield and can't really be built to serve any purpose, and for Word Bearers, the cultists are the front line scrubs. The way you'd use them in a list is on the back line holding a Quadgun, though. I also really hate the guard, and kind of was looking forward to Chaosifying numerous Guardsmen.

The other thing is we hear Daemons are changing soon, no? I haven't heard a thing but I would be loathe to buy a bunch of Chaos Daemon stuff and find it's all been turned to garbage (which is what I expect them to do).

If I did Daemons, I'd probably use Tzeentch ones, but not the flamers or the screamers everyone's so hot on. Just because I don't like the models at all and don't have the White Dwarf with their rules anyway. I DO really like the Soulgrinder, and I could use that as a normal defiler in a pinch too (or maybe as a slightly less "zord-like" Maulerfiend). I'd probably use Pink Horrors with the Changeling or the Blue Scribes if anything.

I also feel like I really can't spam the daemons like I'd like. The Word Bearers view the daemons as totally expendable and I'd want a gaggle of them. I think the Slaanesh ones look stupid and I think the Nurgle ones look like deformed Disney characters, the Bloodletters just plain don't seem that good, so that leaves me with the Pinkies. Beyond that and the Soul Grinder I really don't know what else I'd do.

thrawn
31-12-2012, 16:25
I am too, but I imagine I could have a much better army that way, at least in terms of options.

I hate the cultists because they are basically just a meatshield and can't really be built to serve any purpose, and for Word Bearers, the cultists are the front line scrubs. The way you'd use them in a list is on the back line holding a Quadgun, though. I also really hate the guard, and kind of was looking forward to Chaosifying numerous Guardsmen.

The other thing is we hear Daemons are changing soon, no? I haven't heard a thing but I would be loathe to buy a bunch of Chaos Daemon stuff and find it's all been turned to garbage (which is what I expect them to do).

If I did Daemons, I'd probably use Tzeentch ones, but not the flamers or the screamers everyone's so hot on. Just because I don't like the models at all and don't have the White Dwarf with their rules anyway. I DO really like the Soulgrinder, and I could use that as a normal defiler in a pinch too (or maybe as a slightly less "zord-like" Maulerfiend). I'd probably use Pink Horrors with the Changeling or the Blue Scribes if anything.

I also feel like I really can't spam the daemons like I'd like. The Word Bearers view the daemons as totally expendable and I'd want a gaggle of them. I think the Slaanesh ones look stupid and I think the Nurgle ones look like deformed Disney characters, the Bloodletters just plain don't seem that good, so that leaves me with the Pinkies. Beyond that and the Soul Grinder I really don't know what else I'd do.

i use my cultists as a meat shield to get kharne into combat.

but ya i say go daemons, if you wanna use IG maybe alpha legion would be fluffier . . .

Lord Damocles
31-12-2012, 16:29
Mech Vets don't really strike me as being very cultist-y.

If you want semi-competent underlings, why not use the Vraxian Renegades list? (then you get cool stuff like Rogue Psykers and Beserker Ogryns too).

Chapters Unwritten
31-12-2012, 17:00
I want to stick to only the "real" game. The Forge World spam going around twists my stomach personally (I just dislike Forge World). That would definitely fit a bit better with the theme but I will probably end up going daemons, I've been leaning that way and, as another poster said, IG is more Alpha Legion-ish than Word Bearers.

Box
31-12-2012, 18:22
I want to stick to only the "real" game. The Forge World spam going around twists my stomach personally (I just dislike Forge World). That would definitely fit a bit better with the theme but I will probably end up going daemons, I've been leaning that way and, as another poster said, IG is more Alpha Legion-ish than Word Bearers.

Forgeworld is part of 'the real' game.

And daemon-cults are as much a signature of the Alpha Legion, as it is the Word Bearers..

13713
31-12-2012, 18:26
I want to stick to only the "real" game. The Forge World spam going around twists my stomach personally (I just dislike Forge World). That would definitely fit a bit better with the theme but I will probably end up going daemons, I've been leaning that way and, as another poster said, IG is more Alpha Legion-ish than Word Bearers.

Wow. More Forge World hate. Last I checked Forge World was part of the so called "real game".

Bonzai
31-12-2012, 18:36
In the previous codex, the daemons fit a niche role, and were a seldom used, but decent set of units. Now aside from Epi- daemon allies don't bring a whole lot that can't be found in the CSM codex it's self, and doesn't synergize especially well. That being said there are a few things that they can bring.

Since the new dex came out, I have always thought about Heralds of slaanesh upgraded with chariots and Pavane. You can get two for one FOC slot, they are a decent cc unit, and they can take the place of your old lash princes to a certain extent. Throw in a squad of 5 plague bearers for objectives and you have a cheap but useful allied force. Could even throw on a soul grinder for more templates.

My two cents...

Chapters Unwritten
31-12-2012, 18:59
I feel like I'd need to keep the Daemons cheap or expendable to really make it work since the CSM are so expensive. The Tzeentch daemons appeal to me in a lot of ways (all over my list I use MoT for units on the Chaos side).

I really like the idea of the Soul Grinder but he'd have quite a bullseye on his back without any other high AV targets in the list. The Rhinos are so costly I've been thinking about going all on foot...putting the cultists in big blobs up front for cover might help and it would be very fluffy.

As for Forge World, when those units are in codex releases by GW I'll be fine with them. Until then, they are just a pretty official looking homebrew to me. It's just an expansion, and it's an expansion I don't play with. Either way, I'd like to keep the thread about the original topic, if possible - I don't want to use any Forge World stuff, full stop.

Chem-Dog
31-12-2012, 23:17
Right. Boiling the issue down you'd like Cultists with IG flexibility and Daemons as a garnish.

I'd suggest going with both.
If you are careful with your unit choices for Cultists they can double as the meat of a Renegade Imperial Guard detachment. This would allow you to include "Cutists" in your CSM + Daemons army (should you want to) or swap out the Daemons for some more IG elements to run a CSM + Renegade Guard force.

Some of this depends on your personal taste and what kind of people you play against, obviously, but assuming those two caveats aren't an issue you've got the germ of a three-in-one army.


Fluff is something of a red herring here. There's no reason that a Renegade IG force (or organised Chaos worshipping militia*) can't be allied with a Word Bearers force, the Word Bearers are likely to expend their allies quite callously, but that's the fun of it :)
Obviously where the devoted sons of Lorgar go there's a good chance some of the Neverborn will manifest, but this isn't a forgone conclusion, add Daemons to taste.


*Shriven, Bloodpact and Ironclad are all good examples of an organised military outfit that bears a cursory resemblance to an Imperial Guard formation without having to be a default "IG Gone Bad" group.


It is necessary to point you in the direction of THIS (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?191618-My-Traitor-Guards&highlight=Traitor+Guards) plog if you're looking at Word Bearers/ Daemons/ Renegade Guard. If that don't inspire you, nothing will. :D

Happy New Year.

Darnok
01-01-2013, 11:21
While the Daemons seem to fit well fluff-wise I hate to say it but without a way to summon them it feels a bit wonky. And they aren't nearly as durable or scary as the daemons seen in the book in a lot of cases.


I also feel like I really can't spam the daemons like I'd like. The Word Bearers view the daemons as totally expendable and I'd want a gaggle of them.

Sorry, but what do you want? Powerful daemons, which can be spammed? :eyebrows:

In regards to Chaos Daemons and "but I want them to be summoned": well, not everything has to be represented on the table. I would imagine that a Dark Apostle would summon them before the battle starts, so that they can appear when the carnage starts - and he himself is free to actually lead and fight.

Deamons, cultists and (corrupted) IG are all fine with the WB background, so in the end it comes down to what options you want on the battlefield, and which models you like. And both can't be decided for you by others.

Asura Varuna
01-01-2013, 15:51
Can't lists at 2000 points have 2 allied detachments (as well as 2 FOC and 2 Fortifications)? If so, why not collect both and have both available to use at your leisure, or in larger games, both together.

Bad monkey
01-01-2013, 17:53
I'm pretty sure all your allies need to be from the same codex

Charistoph
01-01-2013, 18:03
Can't lists at 2000 points have 2 allied detachments (as well as 2 FOC and 2 Fortifications)? If so, why not collect both and have both available to use at your leisure, or in larger games, both together.


I'm pretty sure all your allies need to be from the same codex

This is true. It doesn't totally diminish Asura's point in that the OP can collect and use both at different times. And hey, there's always Apoc where you can field them all.

But as for first: OP do you want Flying Monstrous Creatures or Vendettas? Soulgrinder or Leman Russes? Horrors or elite Cultists?

Chapters Unwritten
01-01-2013, 18:40
I definitely think the idea of having cultified guard and daemons and using both here and there is a great way to have a fun unique army that can be different all the time. To start with I'd definitely do daemons though, they seem way fun to paint!

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