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Wbarobinson
07-01-2013, 02:27
Alright so the plan is to create a list that would normally suck, but because of weird quirks beat mournfang lists, chosen stars and skaven 100 bell+ 70 furnace doom wheel + abom. I.e the most broken lists I have played against. Basically, strength 6 infantry with strong ability to cast dwellers, pit or purple are one answer.
Now, 2 white lion hordes with archmage makes sense. Anyone have other ideas?
We did this in magic cards back in the day, win the tourney with a deck that counters the top three decks even though it loses to bad decks.

Lord Solar Plexus
07-01-2013, 06:28
I don't quite understand the plan or the idea behind it. What is strong against strong lists will be strong against weak lists, everything else being equal, unless you define those terms before the fact. Neither White Lions, WL hordes nor Archmages suck, and neither is or uses a quirk.

Wbarobinson
08-01-2013, 18:24
Ok let me re-explain. Warhammer, like mtg, like any asymetrical game is always a question of Rock Paper Scissors. Some things do well against some things and not against others. It is never clear cut, but you could imagine rock (let's say ogres) beats scissors (lizardmen?) 7/10 times, and loses to paper (high elf white lion hordes) 6/10 times. Now, warhammer is more like, rock, paper, scissors, match, chair, ostrich, gun, handlebar moustache, etc. each has odds of beating the others that have to do with the distribution of m, ws, s, t, a, I, armor, ws... T2 Skinks are awesome against str 6 executioners because the executioners are wasting points on str, when they could be benefitting from toughness... Now, that said, in warhammer, there are a handful of dominant lists... Because they have the best percentages against the most common competitive lists. I want to think outside the box and come up with something that undoes that... Perhaps a horde of 60 executioners, 2 hydras and an archmage. Perhaps 20 units of 10 skinks with javelins.... Does that make more sense?

13713
08-01-2013, 18:47
Your forgetting an important factor... Dice rolls. Just because a list is built to counter the most powerful current game net lists does not mean that the roll of the dice is going to favor it every single time.

dementian
08-01-2013, 22:53
Ok let me re-explain. Warhammer, like mtg, like any asymetrical game is always a question of Rock Paper Scissors. Some things do well against some things and not against others. It is never clear cut, but you could imagine rock (let's say ogres) beats scissors (lizardmen?) 7/10 times, and loses to paper (high elf white lion hordes) 6/10 times. Now, warhammer is more like, rock, paper, scissors, match, chair, ostrich, gun, handlebar moustache, etc. each has odds of beating the others that have to do with the distribution of m, ws, s, t, a, I, armor, ws... T2 Skinks are awesome against str 6 executioners because the executioners are wasting points on str, when they could be benefitting from toughness... Now, that said, in warhammer, there are a handful of dominant lists... Because they have the best percentages against the most common competitive lists. I want to think outside the box and come up with something that undoes that... Perhaps a horde of 60 executioners, 2 hydras and an archmage. Perhaps 20 units of 10 skinks with javelins.... Does that make more sense?

Except that that isn't really how Warhammer works. Because in each persons list there is a rock a paper and a scissor unit and it is the interaction of these units on the battlefield not a blanket classification to the whole army. Additionally, any such list that you make to counter all of the "strongest" lists (impossible btw) will have glaring weaknesses of its own.

Sure you could design a list to kill ogres or MI in general but then you may struggle with the other armies you will likely face. In the end I think going for a balanced list and strong tactics on the battlefield is better than trying to think up a one-trick pony list.

Edit: As an example. Say you take this horde of executioners and say that they will perform well against chosenstar or mournfang lists. Now imagine that the chosenstar list gets an infernal gateway off. He has a Rock in his list and a scissor to break your paper. Or the Mournfang list against the executioner horde, sabretusk redirectors is the scissors. And assume you go up against Skaven...plague ftw?

DragonArmy
12-01-2013, 04:47
Alright so the plan is to create a list that would normally suck, but because of weird quirks beat mournfang lists, chosen stars and skaven 100 bell+ 70 furnace doom wheel + abom. I.e the most broken lists I have played against. Basically, strength 6 infantry with strong ability to cast dwellers, pit or purple are one answer.
Now, 2 white lion hordes with archmage makes sense. Anyone have other ideas?
We did this in magic cards back in the day, win the tourney with a deck that counters the top three decks even though it loses to bad decks.

problem is that there is no "weak list" i can think of that beats mourn fang, chosen star, and skaven. However, de with no magic, but a pendent lord is my first thought.



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