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View Full Version : You seem quiet, Warseer... (Dark Angels codex discussion)



The_NightBringer
12-01-2013, 15:34
Greetings Warseer,

I'm rather surprised that there have been no posts discussing the new DA codex, as I'd really like to know what people think of the fluff (is it good or bad?). Especially when I am thinking about purchasing the product (which makes me ask: Do these new codices possess extensive fluff?).

Have I missed something? I mean, it is out, right?

Thanks.

On a totally unrelated note: Does anyone know where I could get the book "Deathwatch: Outer reach"? I've tried ordering it from Amazon but it has been out of stock for ages, and I am not ordering it directly from Fantasy Flight games-considering the shipping costs (I'm in the UK).

Lord Damocles
12-01-2013, 15:38
Perhaps for once, we're not going to do the 'ZOMG! Teh sky is Falling!!!1!! :mad::mad::mad:' before actually reading the Codex...

Israfael
12-01-2013, 17:55
Perhaps for once, we're not going to do the 'ZOMG! Teh sky is Falling!!!1!! :mad::mad::mad:' before actually reading the Codex...

Silly Lord Damocles.. it's still happening, but it's just staying in general chat. ;)

TheDungen
12-01-2013, 21:41
yeah give them a while they're whining about their flyer right now they'llg et to whining about their fluff soon enough. Meanwhile i'm paintign fallen to thwart them, "the sons of the lion shall not prevail!"

Tyranus
12-01-2013, 21:50
I'm happy about locator beacons we can put on tanks. Acts as teleport homer. For the most part we are going to never scatter again...... ravenwing and tanks with beacons.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Imperialis_Dominatus
13-01-2013, 00:51
Meanwhile icons give the likes of soulblaze and fear. Whoo.

bittick
13-01-2013, 05:48
There's very little new fluff in the codex. Certainly nothing for anyone to freak out over.

Mage
13-01-2013, 06:29
Any more on successor chapters being fleshed out in detail?

Voss
13-01-2013, 06:34
Meanwhile icons give the likes of soulblaze and fear. Whoo.
Don't worry about it. Tanks can't have locator beacons.
But you'll want to kill command squads with banners on sight.

Personally, I haven't looked at the background much, yet. I rather like the opening introduction, and the art is pretty good.

brotherhostower
13-01-2013, 07:26
I'm honestly ecstatic over the new DA dex. For the fluff, there isn't a whole lot added BUT, what is added is decent and nothing like what Matt Ward would have written (No Dark Angels allying with say, the Hrud to kill Tyranids who showed up in the middle of a fight or any of that nonsense like our poor BA & Ultramarines brothers).

For rules, oh the rules... I'm incredibly happy about the things we get BACK that we never should have lost, like, Land Raider dedicated transports for Deathwing. The fact we can have Captains riding bikes or in terminator armor again (and they can get appropriate command squads) is pretty nice as well. We, essentially, get Stubborn or Fearless back, somewhat like our 3rd Ed dex, and our Scouts back in the troops section (essentially giving DA multi-wing 4 options for troops depending on who you field for an HQ).

We finally got all the NEW goodies that we should have had (though I damn GW for doing this after they jacked up the cost for the LRs). I know people are grumbling about how expensive the fighters are, but I'll hold out judgement until I try them out some. My experience with them will probably be more favorable than most, as my opponents tend not to be MEQ. The Black Knights & Deathwing Knights look awesome and not overly expensive, and the added things to the DW & RW Commands are just vicious. I like the new Vengeance LS, the plasma cannon of doom should be interesting to field. I'm not sure how I feel about the Shroud, with Fast Attack being incredibly bloated, even in a RW army using RW Bikers are troops, I'll have to field test it to see how it holds up as opposed to another LS tornado or typhoon. Love the wargear list, the changes to pretty much all the Spec Characters (Mind Worm actually being useful is a big change).

Now, because every review can't be glowing, the Bad - There's not a lot for me to put here yet, decreased scout stats hurts some. No ap on the corvus hammers, and the deathwing knights standard weapon being very anti-chaos codex specific. Most folks seem upset about the low Str on our new fliers, making them less suitable for their assigned roles at the cost given but, like I said, reserving judgement until I field'em.

FlashGordon
13-01-2013, 09:30
Bah rules in the beckground forum? ;) Give us background!

Drakcore Bloodtear
13-01-2013, 10:57
Just a theory but maybe because of the lack of any brand new units or major special characters.

The DA book is actually rather tame, with only the Palpatine Terminator being a bit odd IMO (are they part of the official DW? Or some sort of SG equivalent? Why do they use flails? etc).
The new vehicles are pretty much add-on to the Landspeeder and Storm flyer series, while the command squads actually make some sense.

So maybe with the rules tasting like marmite, the fluff is acceptable.

bittick
13-01-2013, 15:26
Bah rules in the beckground forum? ;) Give us background!

Very very little new. A few battles, "and on blah blah blah date the Dark Angels fought the evil Graarfingle". A few new unit descriptions. There are 10 of the Land Speeder Darkshrouds, made from 10 statues from old Caliban that survived but were somehow charged with warp energy when the planet was destroyed. Hints that there might be a few more successor chapters but none named. A few extra background sentences, like one saying that the reason the High Lords are reluctant to use Dark Angels for spawning successors is because they all work too closely with the main chapter, fears of "legion building". Asmodai is now the oldest interrogator chaplain (I guess Sapphon died). He once sanctioned the 7th company to a vow of silence for an entire year because one of them was laughing and Dark Angels aren't supposed to laugh.

Deathwing and Ravenwing are noted to be larger sized than normal. No set number of marines given.

Lord-Caerolion
13-01-2013, 15:30
Basically, the Black Knights and Deathwing Knights are additional steps "up the chain" within the Dark Angels. From what I remember, the Ravenwing know they're hunting traitors, but when they become a Black Knight, they learn they're hunting traitor Dark Angels, but nothing about the Fall. The Deathwing is still where they learn about that, and the Deathwing Knights are stated to be within the "Inner Circle of the Deathwing", so obviously they know something more, but we're not told what. They also clarify that the Company Veterans are ad hoc formations comprised of the most experienced members of the Company, formed whenever a squad is needed with a little more expertise is needed.
My favourite addition though, which I don't believe has been covered before, is an explanation of what happened to the Dark Angels after the Fall, and how they found out about the Fallen still existing, how they explained the destruction of their homeworld and the disappearance of their Primarch, etc. Basically, the Dark Angels told a half-truth, and said that a Warp storm had claimed their homeworld, and had also devastated their fleet and taken their Primarch. The Imperium didn't really look too closely, as it was during the Scouring, and there was so much else going on. The Dark Angels fought alongside the Blood Angels for a bit, while their Librarians searched for the Lion using their powers. They found no trace of him, but found hints of the scattered Fallen, which made the Dark Angels panic and start their quest to hunt them all down.

All in all, the new fluff is actually pretty good, and nothing really stands out as particularly over-the-top or stupid. I'm really happy with how the new codex has gone.

Voss
13-01-2013, 17:24
The background for the Nephilim did amuse me a bit. It has the standard 'Oh hey we found some STC templates this one time while hunting Fallen (in late M40),' yadda yadda made an interceptor with better engines out of it. But the battles it has been in were well chosen: only mentions are downing ork flyers (which are well within its capabilities) and versus craftworld eldar. The lascannon version went tank hunting and the megabolter version went after jetbikes. Zero mention of it in combat versus hardier flyers.

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
13-01-2013, 19:29
He once sanctioned the 7th company to a vow of silence for an entire year because one of them was laughing and Dark Angels aren't supposed to laugh.
lolwut ?
I hope they have some form of sign language, else they should have suffer quite a bit when planning their attacks and stuff.

jareddm3
13-01-2013, 19:55
There's a brief mention that for all of the foundings in M33, which would be 4th through 7th, no Dark Angel geneseed was used at all.

Londinium
13-01-2013, 20:25
My favourite addition though, which I don't believe has been covered before, is an explanation of what happened to the Dark Angels after the Fall, and how they found out about the Fallen still existing, how they explained the destruction of their homeworld and the disappearance of their Primarch, etc. Basically, the Dark Angels told a half-truth, and said that a Warp storm had claimed their homeworld, and had also devastated their fleet and taken their Primarch. The Imperium didn't really look too closely, as it was during the Scouring, and there was so much else going on. The Dark Angels fought alongside the Blood Angels for a bit, while their Librarians searched for the Lion using their powers. They found no trace of him, but found hints of the scattered Fallen, which made the Dark Angels panic and start their quest to hunt them all down.


Sounds like a decent little bit of expansion on the fluff. I like the odd little forays they make into the Scouring period, if anything it's growing to be more interesting than the Heresy itself.

ryng_sting
13-01-2013, 20:37
Asmodai is now the oldest interrogator chaplain (I guess Sapphon died).

Asmodai has always been older than Sapphon.

MajorWesJanson
14-01-2013, 00:26
I'm happy about locator beacons we can put on tanks. Acts as teleport homer. For the most part we are going to never scatter again...... ravenwing and tanks with beacons.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Eldar do get beat up pretty badly by DA though, so that constant remains. No mention of an Avatar going down at least.

bittick
14-01-2013, 00:56
Asmodai has always been older than Sapphon.

My bad. Had it backwards.

DarthMcBob
14-01-2013, 01:01
lolwut ?
I hope they have some form of sign language, else they should have suffer quite a bit when planning their attacks and stuff.

Nah, it's cool. I checked the entry, and they were allowed to sing hymns and speak for battle communications.

Harriticus
14-01-2013, 02:39
The new codex contained very little new or interesting fluff. After screwing over the Necrons/Grey Knights GW seems to be much more cautious with regards to fluff, had the same thing (lack of new stuff) in the 6th ed CSM codex.

Voss
14-01-2013, 04:21
while their Librarians searched for the Lion using their powers. They found no trace of him,
Which is kind of sad, all things considered. The Watchers in the Dark have to be the galaxy's best trollers.

I do find it a little sad that there isn't any mystery to the DA, at least not from the reader's perspective. It seems a little absurd that over the course of 10,000 years no one wanders into the Lion's room in the Rock

bittick
14-01-2013, 04:26
Which is kind of sad, all things considered. The Watchers in the Dark have to be the galaxy's best trollers.

I do find it a little sad that there isn't any mystery to the DA, at least not from the reader's perspective. It seems a little absurd that over the course of 10,000 years no one wanders into the Lion's room in the Rock

Apparently the chamber doesn't connect to anything. It's either sealed off or one of those "you can't get there from here" spatial weirdness things where corridors loop back on themselves.

TheDungen
14-01-2013, 04:52
could also be that large portions of the rock is vented of atmosphere after all it is just a flying price of a larger complex.

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-01-2013, 06:33
The Lions room is just a small cave holding him deep inside the Rock. It doesn't connect to anything else, so its not like he is hiding in a forgotten basement or anything like that.

Grimbad
14-01-2013, 06:36
He once sanctioned the 7th company to a vow of silence for an entire year because one of them was laughing and Dark Angels aren't supposed to laugh.

I can't remember the last time I liked a background addition this much.

The Emperor
14-01-2013, 07:25
The fact we can have Captains riding bikes

Err... Company Masters CAN'T ride bikes.


I'm happy about locator beacons we can put on tanks. Acts as teleport homer. For the most part we are going to never scatter again...... ravenwing and tanks with beacons.

Incorrect. Read the Dark Angels Vehicle Equipment list and the actual entries. Only Drop Pods can have Locator Beacons, nothing else.


lolwut ?
I hope they have some form of sign language, else they should have suffer quite a bit when planning their attacks and stuff.

They weren't completely forbidden to speak. They could talk on occasion, although it was only to sing hymnals or communicate in battle.

Chrysalis
14-01-2013, 09:07
Eldar do get beat up pretty badly by DA though, so that constant remains. No mention of an Avatar going down at least.


What? You mean that no DA character got to dragonpunch an Avatar? Heresy!!! :D


lolwut ?
I hope they have some form of sign language, else they should have suffer quite a bit when planning their attacks and stuff.

Well said! It sounds like another: "Let's add this to their fluuf, that's too cool! He's such a bada$$ caracter he did something that had really no consistency!"

cornonthecob
14-01-2013, 09:07
I find it slightly odd that stasis technology is now so abundant that it can be used in grenades and bombs. I get that they have the 'first chapter old tech' thing going on but it's still an incredibly rare artefact that's being used.

The Emperor
14-01-2013, 09:10
Well said! It sounds like another: "Let's add this to their fluuf, that's too cool! He's such a bada$$ caracter he did something that had really no consistency!"

As mentioned before, they were allowed to speak during battle. They just couldn't talk in their down time unless it was to sing a hymnal.

Chrysalis
14-01-2013, 09:13
As mentioned before, they were allowed to speak during battle. They just couldn't talk in their down time unless it was to sing a hymnal.

Considering te whole life of a Space Marine is about battles or sleeping on transport barges, it makes the punishment quite ridiculous... :)

Scalebug
14-01-2013, 09:29
I find it slightly odd that stasis technology is now so abundant that it can be used in grenades and bombs. I get that they have the 'first chapter old tech' thing going on but it's still an incredibly rare artefact that's being used.

I don't think Stasis technology has ever been described as one of those "rare because we have nearly or entirely lost the knowledge to make new ones" things though. It's rarity, or total absence (in like 3rd-4th edition), has mostly been a game mechanic thing.

The bearded one
14-01-2013, 09:39
Considering te whole life of a Space Marine is about battles or sleeping on transport barges, it makes the punishment quite ridiculous... :)

apparently one was laughing, he'll have to miss out on that :p

Righteous punishment, yeah!



I find it a hilariously lovely piece of fluff in any case. These are the lovely silly things that are 100% serious in-universe that make 40k what it is.

Rogue Star
14-01-2013, 14:25
It's nice enough but seriously GW, PROOF READ. :eyebrows:

First paragraph for Company Masters. :wtf:

161567

Giladisb
14-01-2013, 14:55
What!?

That is hillarious :D

librerian_samae
14-01-2013, 14:56
The new fluff for the master of the forge (now called master of the rock) is very cool, he's basically plugged into the rocks technical systems to be it's OS and trouble shooter :p

A shame that they took out the part about unforgiven chaplains not wearing skulls but rather death masks bit from the previous codex.

On a side note I miss some of the ward dex's wakyness it makes the dark angels one seem a bit...
...I don't know bland and musty in comparison.

Also I am saddened by the relegation of the background from "deathwing" to merely one of several 'apocryphal tales' (exact phrase from new dex dont shoot me I hate it too)
would have loved it if they had merged the plains indians stuff with the monastic vibe but alas it was not to be :(

Now I think about it they are playing up the nightlords dark angels emnity from the ADB heresy novels, one of the better couple of bits are ALL the unforgiven chapters shortly after the scouring going after them into the eye of terror and massively decimating their own numbers over countless fruitless battles, called the forgotten wars.
Another bit was the night lords with alpha legion aid ruining the dark angels largest recruiting world at one point too with I think asmodi being forced to order the death of every neophyte from that yeild.

farnham
14-01-2013, 14:57
It's nice enough but seriously GW, PROOF READ. :eyebrows:

First paragraph for Company Masters. :wtf:

161567


Wow that is a blunder and a half, which English version of the codex is that in?

Rogue Star
14-01-2013, 15:24
Wow that is a blunder and a half, which English version of the codex is that in?

Digital version. Dunno about the physical copy.

Chrysalis
14-01-2013, 15:29
It's nice enough but seriously GW, PROOF READ. :eyebrows:

First paragraph for Company Masters. :wtf:

161567

What's the exact word?

"Epic fail" comes to my mind...

More seriously, between this kind of huge mistake, and the number of errata and clarifications that needed 6th ed. immediately after its release, I think GW really need to focus more seriously on their work befire releasing anything.

loveless
14-01-2013, 15:39
Well, glad to see the practice of "overwriting old files instead of starting from a clean template" works at GW, too - but it's a bit surprising it's from a Fantasy book instead of the Chaos Marine codex (which would have been more hilarious, IMO).

Well done, GW, well done :p

---

The bit about Asmodai going "Laughter? Okay, no talking - one year." is pretty much "win" in my book. Now I know that his model is pointing and shouting "Shut the ---- up!" at his target - right before unleashing a barrage of hatred-filled concussive blows. Ah, warms my heart.

Idaan
14-01-2013, 16:09
The Land Speeder Vengeance is based on an STC discovered in M36. This is a retcon, since before that, Land Speeders weren't mentioned to be based on STC. The gravplates were an STC design discovered by Arkhan Land on Mars, but everything pointed toward the craft itself being a new design.
No other obvious retcons to my knowledge.

Rogue Star
14-01-2013, 16:09
I can't help but think it would have been more fitting if it had been the Blood Angels' Codex...

cornonthecob
14-01-2013, 16:19
The Land Speeder Vengeance is based on an STC discovered in M36. This is a retcon, since before that, Land Speeders weren't mentioned to be based on STC. The gravplates were an STC design discovered by Arkhan Land on Mars, but everything pointed toward the craft itself being a new design.
No other obvious retcons to my knowledge.

Perhaps it was a design for this singular vehicle ?

Poseidal
14-01-2013, 17:16
Perhaps it was a design for this singular vehicle ?

There's the problem that it's named after Land, which would be the new design with variants based after it.

Lord Damocles
14-01-2013, 18:08
First paragraph for Company Masters. :wtf:
Proof that 40K and Fantasy are the same universe!

:angel:

Imperialis_Dominatus
14-01-2013, 18:35
A copy I saw... somewhere... talked about Chapter relics. Most specifically, about shrouds. A cool piece of background, but lifted whole from old Blood Angels background. Shameless.

viv714r
14-01-2013, 21:02
@ Loveless, that image will now be in my head everytime Asmodai challenges someone. I wonder what he'd make of Harlequins?

Lester
14-01-2013, 21:36
Well, glad to see the practice of "overwriting old files instead of starting from a clean template" works at GW, too - but it's a bit surprising it's from a Fantasy book instead of the Chaos Marine codex (which would have been more hilarious, IMO).

Well done, GW, well done :p

---

The bit about Asmodai going "Laughter? Okay, no talking - one year." is pretty much "win" in my book. Now I know that his model is pointing and shouting "Shut the ---- up!" at his target - right before unleashing a barrage of hatred-filled concussive blows. Ah, warms my heart.

Now I got to get the Asmondai model.

Daniel36
14-01-2013, 22:08
@ Loveless, that image will now be in my head everytime Asmodai challenges someone. I wonder what he'd make of Harlequins?
Maybe he'll sort of respect them.
"See guys, those mimes over there got the idea!"

m1acca1551
14-01-2013, 23:58
It's nice enough but seriously GW, PROOF READ. :eyebrows:

First paragraph for Company Masters. :wtf:

161567


Wow this is a new low... even for GW, i thought i had missed something in the VC army book... the whole page just doesn't make sense... i have to re-read and see if it's just me....

Nope... had a coffee and it's not me...

Hellebore
15-01-2013, 02:14
It's quiet probably because they haven't gone OVER 9000x10WARD! on the background for a refreshing change...

Hellebore

Vaulkhar
15-01-2013, 03:29
Most of the new lore consists of tidbits rather than major revelations. Some of the standout points for me:

Asmodai has pretty much gone off the deep end. Aside from the "year of silence for laughing" and his ordering the slaughter of every new recruit from Narcium when he wasn't impressed with the answers to his questions (it was a different world that was razed by the NL), it's noted that Azrael has had to variously countermand, censure and/or cover up his actions more than once...

The Dark Talon's stasis bomb is noted to be built from an STC template that the Dark Angels have...and have repeatedly denied having, which goes some way to explaining why they have access to so much stasis weaponry.

Someone found out about the Ophidium Gulf. The timeline notes that the Black Templars and the DA briefly engaged over a prisoner, that the incident was reported to Terra and that an Inquisitor is heading up an investigation.

Hellebore
15-01-2013, 03:46
A BT ship disappeared after appearing alongside the dark angels chasing the fallen. I believe that was in the last codex. It was implied that the DA had dispposed of the ship to cover up what they learned.

Hellebore

Atrum Angelus
15-01-2013, 05:48
I like the fluff so far. Nothing to far over the top. Though,there seems to be several errors between the physical codex and the digital one.


Incorrect. Read the Dark Angels Vehicle Equipment list and the actual entries. Only Drop Pods can have Locator Beacons, nothing else.

This being one of them. The digital version includes beacons as vehicles wargear.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

The Emperor
15-01-2013, 06:10
I was disappointed by the fluff, honestly. I really wanted to read about Azrael cleaving an Avatar in two from cranium to crotch with a single one-handed blow while getting orally serviced by a squad of Howling Banshees and wailing on an electric guitar.

The bearded one
15-01-2013, 06:14
This being one of them. The digital version includes beacons as vehicles wargear.

Im a bit out of a tune with how 40k codices are organised nowadays, but the vehicles wargear list merely details the effects of all wargear that may be found on some/any/all vehicles, rigth? While the respective entries in the entries in the selection list detail what every specific vehicle has/can buy specifically? Being in the wargear list doesnt mean all vehicles have it, just that there are one or more vehicles that have it, like droppods.

Or is this not what you mean with 'included as vehicle wargear'. Did you mean instead it is noted to be part of the wargear of all vehicles in their specific entries, or under some blanketrule?

Extensive confusion is the effect your post has on me ;)

The Emperor
15-01-2013, 06:19
I can't speak to the digital version, but yeah, just because it appears alongside all the other vehicle upgrades in the Dark Angels Vehicle Equipment list on page 65 that doesn't imply that every vehicle in the list has access to every item on that list. After all, a Nephilim Jetfighter wouldn't use a Siege Shield, so why would a Predator use a Locator Beacon?

Atrum Angelus
15-01-2013, 06:30
The vehicle entries simply state "may take items from the dark angels vehicle wargear list." At the beginning of the army list before the HQ section is the vehicle wargear list with the points. In the digital dex the beacon is included there.

On the topic of fluff, I don't remember the grandmaster knowing Luther was there. I thought it was just the watchers? Luther being the Dark Oracle is new and an interesting twist though.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

The Emperor
15-01-2013, 06:31
Nah, they've always known about Luther and they talk to him. The only one they've never known about is Lion El'Jonson.

Atrum Angelus
15-01-2013, 06:34
Nah, they've always known about Luther and they talk to him. The only one they've never known about is Lion El'Jonson.

Thanks. I knew about Jonson being hidden, but Luther I wasn't sure about. I don't have my old Dark Angels codex handy at the moment.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

Fear Ghoul
15-01-2013, 09:08
The Land Speeder Vengeance is based on an STC discovered in M36. This is a retcon, since before that, Land Speeders weren't mentioned to be based on STC. The gravplates were an STC design discovered by Arkhan Land on Mars, but everything pointed toward the craft itself being a new design.
No other obvious retcons to my knowledge.

I'm fairly sure that's not true, and that the Land Raider and Land Speeder were both designed using recovered STC fragments.

TheDungen
15-01-2013, 10:06
Maybe they're called landspeeders because Land was the first one to recover the STC that they were made after?



It's quiet probably because they haven't gone OVER 9000x10WARD! on the background for a refreshing change...

Hellebore

Why would you raise 10 to the wardth power but keep 10to the third in the 9 term why not just 9x10WARD+3?

Hellebore
15-01-2013, 10:21
Maybe they're called landspeeders because Land was the first one to recover the STC that they were made after?




Why would you raise 10 to the wardth power but keep 10to the third in the 9 term why not just 9x10WARD+3?

Because the joke wouldn't be as obvious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqEwIadhO8)

Hellebore

Idaan
15-01-2013, 16:39
I'm fairly sure that's not true, and that the Land Raider and Land Speeder were both designed using recovered STC fragments.
Nope, check the entry in Imperial Armour vol II for instance.