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View Full Version : OK: Gnoblar Trappers and The Scraplauncher



r41d
19-05-2006, 01:28
Fairly new to the game and I've basically finished my army, consists of around 25-29 Ogre units including gorgers. I have 2 relatively large units of Gnoblar fighters as fodder. Now from all I've heard I should be replacing the fighters with trappers. Why? What makes the trappers so much better?

As for the scraplauncher, points to performance is it worth it? Will it actually make that big of a difference in the ranged game for a melee-oriented army?

Sinew
19-05-2006, 08:19
One of my regular opponents is an Ogre Kingdoms player, from my experience the Gnoblar Fighters are much more useful than Trappers. I play Wood Elves and I find that some ranked units backing up the Ogres are a real pain to get rid of. They're so cheap that my opponent can put 25 opposite a unit of Glade Guard, and just march them towards my 10 guys. I then have to divert combat units to stop the little blighters taking out 120 points of archers for the cost of about 50 points of Gnoblars!

Trappers by contrast have never worried me, because their shooting is fairly ineffective (short range, not too accurate and low strength) they have no combat resolution and their fighting prowess is non-existent. As such I find I can usually ignore them unless a unit has nothing else to do, and then something will casually ride over a unit for a few extra victory points.

I should say that this is obviously dependent on the armies you're facing. If your enemies are more substantial than Elves (so things like Orcs, Empire, Dwarves etc) you might find that scouting skirmishers can get behind the enemy battle line and slow it down. Also against such opponents the units of fighters will be less effective because they won't hold against most ranked enemy units so they'll give away their points fairly easily, though they're still so cheap that this doesn't mean much.

The scraplauncher is overrated IMO.

Pravus
19-05-2006, 08:25
I'd agree with Sinew - its horses for courses. If your were to face my chaos army the Gnoblar units are just holes in your battleline for my knights to charge through and flank your Ogres. The trappers however, could slow me down by march blocking and being a general nuisance.

WarSmith7
19-05-2006, 10:32
OK is all about the speed of your bulls and flank charging, gnoblar fighters are slow in both aspects...

Now enter the Trappers, with a unit of about 10-12 you can spread them out pretty far to creat an effective screen that wont slow your bulls down, the trappers aren't ab out fighting prowess in my opinion (though they still can march block and the sharp stuff can kill a model or two every now and then., but thier main use is screening your bulls for those all important first turns of shooting, saving tons of points that would have otherwise been shooting casualties.

I dont mind Fighters, but I find that by the time they reach the enemy lines, most of the decisive fighting is already done, but thier slow speed does ensure that your flanks are well guarded, see how you dont have much choice a bout htem keeping up anyhow.

Scrap launcher, a chariot and stone thrower that uses the Large template, with killing Blow to boot! what more could you ask for save maybe a cheaper price, its a great weapon, just make sure to keep it near your general so can decide when it is best to charge, rather than the Rhinoxen pulling it!

So my advise in a nutshell would be to take both the fighters and the trappers, fighters for flanks and trappers for screens. As for the Launcher, its up to you, it gives the OK a long range shooter and it pacts a decent punch in CC aswell

Avian
19-05-2006, 12:24
Fairly new to the game and I've basically finished my army, consists of around 25-29 Ogre units including gorgers. I have 2 relatively large units of Gnoblar fighters as fodder. Now from all I've heard I should be replacing the fighters with trappers. Why? What makes the trappers so much better?
Not much, really, but you can contest the table quarters on the opponent's side of the table from turn 1 and that's nice or stand in front of bolt throwers and really ruin their day. Ideally speaking you want at least 4 units of Gnoblars to claim / contest every table quarter.



As for the scraplauncher, points to performance is it worth it? Will it actually make that big of a difference in the ranged game for a melee-oriented army?
It depends. Against enemies with Strength 7+ missile weapons it's a complete no-go (I really, really hate that crappy rule) and against armies with decent toughness and who don't rely on armour saves it's not much good.
Thus it's great against High Elves, for example, but not so good against Greenskins or Dwarfs.
It also has the advantage of packing quite a lot of punch on only a 50 mm wide base, something of a rarity in Ogre armies.
I tend to take either a Scrappy or a Bull Rhinox in my army, one being good against the things the other has problems with, and vice versa (though neither is very good against Dwarfs).

WarSmith7
19-05-2006, 18:39
Not much, really, but you can contest the table quarters on the opponent's side of the table from turn 1 and that's nice or stand in front of bolt throwers and really ruin their day. Ideally speaking you want at least 4 units of Gnoblars to claim / contest every table quarter.



It depends. Against enemies with Strength 7+ missile weapons it's a complete no-go (I really, really hate that crappy rule) and against armies with decent toughness and who don't rely on armour saves it's not much good.
Thus it's great against High Elves, for example, but not so good against Greenskins or Dwarfs.

Wow, 80+ points on the little runts is abit much in my opinion, but to each his own right?

And I disagree about the scrap launcher being ineffective against O&G and other horde armies, remember that the launcher uses the large template, your gonna want to use it against light armored masses, like Orcs or goblins, cause your going to wanna hit as many models as possible to roll as many 6's as possible for that juicy killing blow...

Oh yeah, the reason we dont have a ton powerful 50mm models is because we already take the field with an army of 40mm powerhouses, whats 10mm anyway...

Keller
20-05-2006, 00:29
I find both Gnoblar fighters and trappers to be useful, though I prefer trappers.

Since the Ogres are so fast, I find my gnoblars just get in the way or take too long to get to the battle. Add in that they bicker all the time for me, so they never get to the battle until after a few other combats have been decided. Since we don't play turn limits, usually, the late arriving gnoblars make for good reinforcements, and are excellent units to stop enemies from getting behind my lines, giving them something else to deal with.

Trappers, on the other hand, have the advantage of deploying forward as scouts. This means they can actually get to the battle in a decent amount of time, even when they bicker. As skirmishers, they are also very manuverable and an excellent way to harass enemy troops. I like to take them in units of 12, to get 24 shots on the enemy, enough to do some decent damage even on 5+ to hit and S2. Just don't let them get into combat if you want to keep them, since they can't stand up to a strong breeze. They're not too bad in conjunction with a Hunter. The added combat power of the Ogre, as well as his LD boost to the trappers makes them a pretty handy team.

I never got around to getting the Scrap Launcher, especialyl since I dread putting it together. I'd like to add one to my army sometime, since it seems like it could be very useful, but I have no idea when that will ever happen.

Avian
21-05-2006, 17:30
Wow, 80+ points on the little runts is abit much in my opinion, but to each his own right?
Eh? That's 4% of your average army. Not what I would call much.



And I disagree about the scrap launcher being ineffective against O&G and other horde armies, remember that the launcher uses the large template, your gonna want to use it against light armored masses, like Orcs or goblins, cause your going to wanna hit as many models as possible to roll as many 6's as possible for that juicy killing blow...
Firstly, against models with little armour KB doesn't make a whole lot of
difference, with most greenskins only saving on a 5+/6+ anyway.
Secondly, against great big greenskin units, spending plenty of points to kill a few of them with missile fire is a bit pointless. If you can find a way of killing a lot of them it works, or if you have a ranged attack that causes automatic Panic tests (Braingobbler).
Thirdly, Orcs come on big bases and are only wounded on a 5+. You are not going to kill very many that way.



Oh yeah, the reason we dont have a ton powerful 50mm models is because we already take the field with an army of 40mm powerhouses, whats 10mm anyway...
What I meant is that while an individual ogre comes on a 40 mm base, the average ogre unit is usually far wider than the 50 mm base a scaplauncher comes on...

WarSmith7
21-05-2006, 20:04
Eh? That's 4% of your average army. Not what I would call much.



Firstly, against models with little armour KB doesn't make a whole lot of
difference, with most greenskins only saving on a 5+/6+ anyway.
Secondly, against great big greenskin units, spending plenty of points to kill a few of them with missile fire is a bit pointless. If you can find a way of killing a lot of them it works, or if you have a ranged attack that causes automatic Panic tests (Braingobbler).
Thirdly, Orcs come on big bases and are only wounded on a 5+. You are not going to kill very many that way.


or not
What I meant is that while an individual ogre comes on a 40 mm base, the average ogre unit is usually far wider than the 50 mm base a scaplauncher comes on...

Very true Avian, but KB does help against hte likes of black orcs and big'uns, despite the fact that they are on 25mm bases, a large template will be hitting 4-5 of a good volley, adn where S3 fails, KB may prevail.
I wouldnt be wasting scrap laucher shots on orc mobs, but rather goblin ones anyway, that way your buctcher can focus on scattering Orcs like you suggested.

Also, its not wasted to spend the points to kill off a few models before your Ogres reach them, Ogres need all the help they can get and those few casualties could mean the difference between a rank bonus or not.

As for the remark as to spending 80+points on Gnoblars, I simply meant that I thought that was abit much to spend on Fighters with the exclusion of trappers, I just personally pefer to field another unit of bulls than to rather spend that much on fighters...

Sanjuro
21-05-2006, 21:11
As for the remark as to spending 80+points on Gnoblars, I simply meant that I thought that was abit much to spend on Fighters with the exclusion of trappers, I just personally pefer to field another unit of bulls than to rather spend that much on fighters...

What unit of bulls costs 80 points?

WarSmith7
22-05-2006, 13:40
What unit of bulls costs 80 points?

It's times like these I question common sense...

I was stating that if you were going to spend that amount on points, why not go the distance to just get another unit of bulls, because we all have the OK army book and we all know basic math so we all know that 3 Ogre bulls at 35pts a pop doesn't add up tp 80 points...

Avian
22-05-2006, 18:24
As for the remark as to spending 80+points on Gnoblars, I simply meant that I thought that was abit much to spend on Fighters with the exclusion of trappers, I just personally pefer to field another unit of bulls than to rather spend that much on fighters...
Those 80 pts, sitting quietly in two corners of the battlefield, will let you claim or contest two table quarters, effectively gaining you 200 VPs AND it gives you two deployments that doesn't say anything about your battle plan.

Or you could have two more Bulls, which will in nearly all cases do a lot less.

WarSmith7
22-05-2006, 18:41
Those 80 pts, sitting quietly in two corners of the battlefield, will let you claim or contest two table quarters, effectively gaining you 200 VPs AND it gives you two deployments that doesn't say anything about your battle plan.

Or you could have two more Bulls, which will in nearly all cases do a lot less.

Yes, a very sound point Avian, I concede to the point that you are far more experianced in these matters than I.

I would like to add, if I may, that these 2 units of reserve Gnoblars may also deter flyers and the like from attacking your rear, and if we had a more static warmachine, it would help to protect those aswell...

Lardidar
22-05-2006, 19:35
I think I will always spend 100 or so points on fighters and then take 8 or so trappers too.

As Avian pointed out 4 units of fighters can effectively claim/ contest 4 table quarters (400pts of VP'S)

I was playing earlier this month against a beastman army and on his turn he decided to charge his Shaggoth of Tzentch into a unit of gnoblers ... now remarkably I passed my fear/terror test and he preceded to butcher 3 gnoblers. This meant I beat him in combat by 1 and he fled the table .... This charge was a poor move by my opponent but it just goes to show that if an opponent makes a mistake gnoblers can make him pay :)

Avian
23-05-2006, 14:33
Yep, and it illustrates that even though they are rather whimpy, a large unit of Fighters is not a pushover and the opponent can't just send half a dozen Chaos Furies at them (costing more than twice as much as the gnobbos) and expect to win.

If he wants to get rid of them, the opponent usually has to send a far too expensive unit to root them out, which is a great advantage for you.

Sanjuro
23-05-2006, 14:58
I was stating that if you were going to spend that amount on points, why not go the distance to just get another unit of bulls, because we all have the OK army book and we all know basic math so we all know that 3 Ogre bulls at 35pts a pop doesn't add up tp 80 points...

Well, the bare minimum cost of a unit of bulls is 105 pts, which is 25 pts more than what you suggested. Perhaps your army is 1920 pts and you need to fill up those 80 pts somehow. Another unit of bulls won't cut it there, at 105 pts minimum.

Nothing to do with lack of common sense at all, I was just pointing out that bulls are quite expensive and you need to invest more points in them to be able to get even a single unit, than you would need to invest in gnoblars. That's why they are good at filling up point gaps in your army list. Got 50 pts to spare? Toss in some gnoblars, it can't hurt! You can't do that as easily with bulls, since you might not want to increase the size of your units anymore due to them becoming unwieldy, and due to the law of diminishing returns (you can only have so many ogres in one unit and still have them be effective - a 16 strong unit of bulls isn't neccessarily twice as effective as an 8-strong unit).

WarSmith7
23-05-2006, 16:46
Well, the bare minimum cost of a unit of bulls is 105 pts, which is 25 pts more than what you suggested. Perhaps your army is 1920 pts and you need to fill up those 80 pts somehow. Another unit of bulls won't cut it there, at 105 pts minimum.

Nothing to do with lack of common sense at all, I was just pointing out that bulls are quite expensive and you need to invest more points in them to be able to get even a single unit, than you would need to invest in gnoblars. That's why they are good at filling up point gaps in your army list. Got 50 pts to spare? Toss in some gnoblars, it can't hurt! You can't do that as easily with bulls, since you might not want to increase the size of your units anymore due to them becoming unwieldy, and due to the law of diminishing returns (you can only have so many ogres in one unit and still have them be effective - a 16 strong unit of bulls isn't neccessarily twice as effective as an 8-strong unit).

Another excellent point, I apologize for my pervious retort.

You and Avian have both givin me some insight into the little thieves uses I had previously missed or hadn't thought of, perhaps i'll get around to painting another 30 gnoblar stong regiment of fighters (*shrugs*)....

Sanjuro
23-05-2006, 17:58
You and Avian have both givin me some insight into the little thieves uses I had previously missed or hadn't thought of, perhaps i'll get around to painting another 30 gnoblar stong regiment of fighters (*shrugs*)....

(Emphasis mine)

You probably hit the strongest argument against gnoblars right there - do you have the stamina it takes to paint up about a million of the little green blighters?