PDA

View Full Version : Cypher ... does he have rules?



Grubnar
15-01-2013, 04:56
Like the title asks, we have a new codex for both Chaos Space Marines and Dark Angels. Neither codex has rules for Cypher. Do there exist somewhere current rules for him? For example in White Dwarf (I am not a subscriber) or on the GW website (could not find any)?

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-01-2013, 05:26
There are some rather old rules for him in the 3rd end (I think that's the one). But I don't think there are any 'modern' rules for him, unless he appears in a FW book somewhere.

The Emperor
15-01-2013, 06:24
Yeah, I'm pretty surprised by that. If they're going to make such a big deal about him in Codex: Dark Angels then they should absolutely have rules for him in game.

Poseidal
15-01-2013, 07:52
There was a GD-only sheet, which I think was in Spain only, that had stats for him.

He was S & T5, shot his plasma and bolt pistol in the first round of combat before it starts and his C'Tan knife was a power weapon that caused Instant Death.

Menthak
15-01-2013, 12:50
You can recreate him with a chaos lord, but if you're like me then you know it's not the same >.<

Grimgork
15-01-2013, 14:39
Its a shame he does not have rules. Menthak, how do you recreate him properly with a chaos lord?

buddy_revell
15-01-2013, 14:55
chaos lord with mark of nurgle to give him T5, arm him with bolt pistol and plasma pistol; thanks to the 6th ed rules, he can shoot both in the shooting phase...maybe give him the murder sword for his C'tan blade?

blackcherry
15-01-2013, 15:08
The last rules GW printed for him were in a WD article called "Heroes and Villains of the 41st Millennium". If I remember correctly, he had a twin linked bolt pistol and plasma pistol which he could shoot twice in the shooting phase and when he got into combat he was counted as having a power weapon (the C'tan phase sword having been absorbed by a necron being when attacked by it in a old fluff snippet).

Can't really remember much else but I think he had WS and BS 5 or higher and a 4+ invunerable to represent his patrons protection. The last rules before that were in the 3rd edition Chaos Codex that also had rules for Doomrider.

grayghost
16-01-2013, 00:43
As I recall:

- WS 5
- BS 6
- S & T 4
- I 6
- W & A 3
- LD 10
- 3+/4++
- Master crafted bolt and plasma pistols
- Could use both pistols in CC
- Could fire both pistols, twice each if stationary (back in the day when you could only shoot one and stationary pistoliers could fire twice) for a total of four shots!
- Could be taken with Chaos Space Marines or Imperial Guard
- Unlocked ONE squad of non-Chaos Marines (complete with ATSKNF) to represent a squad of Fallen
- If in a unit other then his Fallen squad, the unit has to roll at the beginning of each turn. On a 6 they cannot act that turn. Represents his chaotic influence
- If killed, roll a 3D6. If the result is 4+, Cypher gives NO Victory Points (another 3rd Ed. artifact). Represents his "patron" wisking him to safety
- 3rd Ed. Dark Angels had a rule where they earned major points for "capturing" (killing in close combat) Cypher, but only if his patron roll failed

Lothlanathorian
16-01-2013, 02:42
Or give him the MoT to represent his supernatural protection since you can't have him just vanish instead of dying.

Also, how do you give him both pistols and The Murder Sword? Or are we counting grenades as weapons you can swap out?

The Emperor
16-01-2013, 07:18
chaos lord with mark of nurgle to give him T5, arm him with bolt pistol and plasma pistol; thanks to the 6th ed rules, he can shoot both in the shooting phase...maybe give him the murder sword for his C'tan blade?

Really? Can you provide a page citation?

Grimgork
16-01-2013, 07:42
As Lothlanathorian said, wouldn´t a MoT be more appropiate? I do not have my codex in front of me, but is it really possible to give him two pistols and one artefact? How would you justify MoN?

In the last dex I played him with MoT plus Demon Weapon to represent his excellent shooting. Worked quite well but is not possible anymore.

Lothlanathorian
16-01-2013, 10:29
Really? Can you provide a page citation?

Page citation for which part? The ability to fire both pistols? That's the Gunslinger rule. I don't have my rulebook handy atm, but, the rule is called Gunslinger and it does exactly what Buddy said it does.

The Emperor
16-01-2013, 10:38
Ah, found it. Page 52. Now if only a Chaos Lord could take a melee weapon without having to give up a pistol... :(

Korras
16-01-2013, 11:05
alternatively, if your opponent agrees to it.. use the rules for a Moritat from Horus Heresy: Betrayal? I think that suits him perfectly.

Lothlanathorian
16-01-2013, 11:07
Ah, found it. Page 52. Now if only a Chaos Lord could take a melee weapon without having to give up a pistol... :(

Some people would argue you could give up one of your grenades for it. I'm not a member of that camp, however, but, their logic isn't completely crazy.

Khorneguy
17-01-2013, 13:42
I'd make him using the rules for a Moritat from HH: Betrayal, seeing as he seems to have been inspired by Cypher anyway.

Give him a Plasma Pistol and a Bolt Pistol, an Iron Halo to represent his uncanny knack of avoiding attacks and have fun blasting away at DA to your hearts content with his Chain Fire rule.

A bonus is that the HH list is best for representing Fallen anyway, seeing as they're just Pre-Heresy marines, transplanted to the present. To reresent their low numbers, I'd use ride of the legion, making Veterans and Terminators troops choices, after that, take what you like to fill it out, then Fluff it out to explain why they have it.

TimLeeson
17-01-2013, 16:23
they could promote both their chaos and DA lines by having a "Fallen" list lead by Cypher in WD. Would make an excellent allied contingent too.

Just sayin'

Phoebus
18-01-2013, 21:31
His GD stats were pretty impressive...

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/10/cypher-returns-leak.html?m=1

buddy_revell
22-01-2013, 09:29
Ah, found it. Page 52. Now if only a Chaos Lord could take a melee weapon without having to give up a pistol... :(
isnt the murder sword a chaos reward? i dont have my codex handy, but im pretty sure the murder sword isnt listed as a melee weapon.

Horus Lupercal
22-01-2013, 09:57
Why do people think its an issue that they can't give him a sword. He never draws the lion sword and so what if he "used to count as". We are tying to find something that fits, just make something that fits for you.

Lothlanathorian
22-01-2013, 10:41
It is an artifact so does replace a weapon.

And it is an issue because, yeah, he can't use the Lion Sword, but, as this thread has been talking about for the entire time, he has a C'tan Phase Knife, which counts as a power sword.

HBT
22-01-2013, 10:56
As I recall:

- WS 5
- BS 6
- S & T 4
- I 6
- W & A 3
- LD 10
- 3+/4++
- Master crafted bolt and plasma pistols
- Could use both pistols in CC
- Could fire both pistols, twice each if stationary (back in the day when you could only shoot one and stationary pistoliers could fire twice) for a total of four shots!
- Could be taken with Chaos Space Marines or Imperial Guard
- Unlocked ONE squad of non-Chaos Marines (complete with ATSKNF) to represent a squad of Fallen
- If in a unit other then his Fallen squad, the unit has to roll at the beginning of each turn. On a 6 they cannot act that turn. Represents his chaotic influence
- If killed, roll a 3D6. If the result is 4+, Cypher gives NO Victory Points (another 3rd Ed. artifact). Represents his "patron" wisking him to safety
- 3rd Ed. Dark Angels had a rule where they earned major points for "capturing" (killing in close combat) Cypher, but only if his patron roll failed

Had a quick look through some of my stuff and he is listed in the Heroes and Villains of the 41st Millenium. His stats are slightly different to those above (but not much).

WS - 5
BS - 5
S - 4
T - 4
W - 3
I - 6
A - 3
Ld - 10
Sav - 3+

Has the following Special Rules -

ATSKNF
Fallen Angels - May take 1 squad of Fallen (Chaos SM) also have ATSKNF.
Animosity - Roll D6, on roll of 1 squad he is attached to (except Fallen) -1 LD that turn.
Divine Protection - If killed or reduced to 0 wounds remove from play. Victory points are awarded.
Gunfighter - Shoots both weapons if moved, if not may rapid fire both.
Hunted - All DA Ravenwing and Deathwing must charge Cypher if able.

Hopefully I haven't broken any rules by posting this, if so could Mod please remove.

Cheers

Edit: There's a few copies of White Dwarf 281 (UK) which have his rules printed in them on Ebay UK at the moment. They're reasonably cheap. Failing that, if you phone GW they might be able to provide you with a copy or possibly even just the rules.

hazmiter
22-01-2013, 11:58
It will be interesting to see if the GW do actually give him his rules back....
He was always an interesting character :)

Rogue Star
22-01-2013, 12:13
I believe currently, GW suggests using him as a stand-in for a Chaos Lord (Or Space Marine Captain, depending on your outlook :p) and then throwing in Dark Angel bits to make your Chaos force a Fallen Warband.

Lord Damocles
22-01-2013, 19:50
And it is an issue because, yeah, he can't use the Lion Sword, but, as this thread has been talking about for the entire time, he has a C'tan Phase Knife, which counts as a power sword.
HAD a C'tan Phase Knife.

The Deciever borrowed it. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?283535-Necrons-vs-Khorne&p=5136395&viewfull=1#post5136395)

Lothlanathorian
22-01-2013, 20:00
I completely forgot about that. So, Lord Damocles, it seems this thread no longer has a problem. You give a Chaos Lord a Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol and jobs a good 'un :D

hazmiter
22-01-2013, 23:44
Cyphers all about feng shui, that sword looks good, so ill sling it on, and run about with my pistols :)

Lothlanathorian
23-01-2013, 05:42
Well, the sword he has hung from his belt is Lion El'jonson's sword, the Lion Sword, that was broken in half during the battle with Luthor. Cypher has been carrying it in its sheath for the last 10,000 years.

Poseidal
23-01-2013, 09:04
HAD a C'tan Phase Knife.

The Deciever borrowed it. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?283535-Necrons-vs-Khorne&p=5136395&viewfull=1#post5136395)

The latest edition (from GD Spain) has the knife back. I think that hint, along with the latest Necron book implies that the Deceiver in modern 40k never existed.

Excessus
23-01-2013, 10:33
You can always have him as a chosen champion or something, because then he actually can have two pistols and a power sword... :P

The Marshel
23-01-2013, 10:48
His GD stats were pretty impressive...

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/10/cypher-returns-leak.html?m=1

argh, you evil evil person, translations please? :angel:

Damaged Dan
23-01-2013, 11:43
I'm probably wrong on this, so if you have a copy of the Heroes and Villains rules, by all means, shoot me down... but I seem to recall Cypher just being so badass with his pistols that THEY counted as the power weapon. Don't remember there being anything about instant death, but then it has been SOO long since I saw those rules... I'll check when I get home.

Excessus
23-01-2013, 11:48
He has had his C'tan phase knife since 2nd ed so it's not exactly new...

TheDungen
23-01-2013, 16:23
the using the pistols in cc seems familiar.

Imperialis_Dominatus
23-01-2013, 23:03
Yeah, I remember that from the Heroes and Villains rules.

Excessus
23-01-2013, 23:30
You used pistols in melee in 2nd ed...

TheDungen
23-01-2013, 23:34
heroes and villians wasnt second edition i belive it was during early 4th or late 3rd

Excessus
23-01-2013, 23:42
Then they just copied the superior rules from 2nd ed... ;)

wyvirn
24-01-2013, 00:01
Is the Cypher rules from the most recent GD? Because the C'tan sword has an AP value.

I don't speak spanish, but here's what I think his rules mean in english:
Equipment: Power armor, Mastercrafted bolt pistol, mastercrafted plasma pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades, C'tan sword.
Rules: Independent character,???, Eternal Warrior, hit and run, fleet(?)
C'tan Sword: S-user, AP 3, melee, Insant Death, can be used with pisols(?)

Brother Fenix
24-01-2013, 00:04
I just figured they kept him out of the codex's because there is still some mystery about his role as it relates to the recent HH fluff. i.e Is he truly aligned with Chaos or is there more to the story? They talk about the position in Descent of Angels I believe, as something of the "holder of traditions" so maybe he is there to redeem the fallen, or he maybe is really anti-imperium Chaos leader.

*Edit - Just looked this up on the GW website:

"Depending on your interpretation.."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1130401