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View Full Version : Brets vs WoC: Canada vs USA (2500 Points)



Malorian
16-01-2013, 01:07
This Sunday it's time for another Skype game, and this time it's a rematch against Andy from USA who loves to crush me with Manfred. This time however he has changed armies and is trying out Warriors of Chaos (I think 90% of my games are against WoC...)


Team USA:

Sorcerer Lord 270pts: lvl 3 wizard(Death), Crown of Command
Sorcerer Lord 355pts: lvl 4 wizard(Tzeentch), Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, 4+ Ward, General

Chaos Sorcerer 235pts:lvl 2 wizard(Tzeentch), Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Dispel Scroll, Golden Eye of Tzeentch
Exalted Hero 220pts: Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Dawnstone, Favor of the Gods, Shrieking Blade, Dragonhelm, Soporific Musk

Chaos Warriors 323pts: 14 Warriors, Musician, Standard(Banner of Rage), Halberds, Mark of Tzeentch,
Shields, Champion (7 wide)
Chaos Warriors 296pts: 14 Warriors, Musician, Standard(Banner of Eternal Flame), Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Shields, Champion (7 wide)
Chaos Warriors 497pts:27 Warriors, Musician, Standard(Banner of Discipline), Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Champion (5 wide)

Chaos Warshrine 150pts:Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Warshrine 150pts:Mark of Tzeentch

Total: 2496

So an amazingly elite army with a ton of points in characters.


To face him I'm bringing out this...

Team Canada:

Lvl 4 prophetess (life) w/ steed, scroll 265
paladin bsb w/ steed, gromil helm, sword of might 139

15 KE w/ banner, errantry banner 334
15 KE w/ banner 307
12 KotR w/ banner, banner of discipline 311

9 questing knights , banner 261
9 questing knights , banner 261
3 peg knights 165

12 grail knights 456
-2499

So a polar opposite in that I take the minimum amount of characters and just have a ton of knights.


The game will be Blood and Glory with a breaking point of 3 and him starting at 6 and me starting with 8.

It will be this Sunday so until then feel free to vote on who you think will win :D


Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5X8SHYvcw

Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs?
16-01-2013, 02:43
Tough call, but i think you have so many more nasty units, plus they're really fast. He has strong magic but what if he rolls poorly for winds of magic on his first turn? Your second turn you'll slam into him - with 12 grail knights, 18 questing knights and 42 core knights?! Yikes. I guess that's why his three warrior blocks (two of small size?) seem to pale in comparison. That and he has no chaff! Still he has warshrine back up, the crown of command and all that nasty magic. Nonetheless I believe you have it.

Perfectionz
16-01-2013, 07:58
Mal keeps feeding me tasty targets for death magic. =]

Other than that, this game could go either way depending on dice and positioning. Also, you should know Mal that I never leave home without a few tricks up my sleeve ^^.

I AM astounded however at the number of knights on the table. Though the question to that is this: Is having so many big units good for fighting an elite army? Or, are we about to prove once again that no matter how many Persians you throw at the Spartans, they just cannot seem to get the job done as well as one would hope?

This will make for another interesting/great game in my personal opinion and I cannot wait to have fun with Mal again.

The Emperor
16-01-2013, 08:04
Hmm, how does one even play a game on Skype? This I have to see.

Djine Phaï
16-01-2013, 09:07
I think this one is for WOC ! To me, it will be too hard to take the big warrior unit and the characters so there's probably only 2 points to take.
The Brets will not be easy to break either (with 8 points and their mobility), so the standard victory points will be important !

danny-d-b
16-01-2013, 11:08
Hmm, how does one even play a game on Skype? This I have to see.
quiet easy, mal provides both armys, the other guy gets to boss him around for 2 hours and then just wins (or in my case draw twice!)

as for result, could come down to turn 1/2 magic phase, and if mal desides to pray or not, if he lines up his charges right, he might just be able to win but it only realy takes one lance to go down to magic and he will be stuggling- its not offen you say WOC is going to lose this in the combat phase!

Awilla the Hun
16-01-2013, 13:29
I'm betting on the Bretonnians as long as Mal can take out the Crown of Command before hitting the enemy line. He can concentrate his force and manouvere more effectively than the Chaos infantry. It will be bloody, but he can break through one unit at a time. Hopefully.

Djekar
16-01-2013, 13:33
Really confused about the Level 3 on death with the Crown of Command - not totally sure that a T4 4+save model will stay alive long enough to really leverage the item.

I think that the Brets with the advantage in numbers and mobility will be able to deal quite handily with the warriors. Even if he does grab Divine Greatness on a unit, the Brets can likely just charge a secondary target. Or you know, dwellers - although if you get dwellers that will be a double edged sword, what with Third Eye out there...

SkawtheFalconer
16-01-2013, 13:34
Gotta be the Brets. The Chaos player is too reliant on big dice pools in magic phase, and so will struggle to stop the brets hitting his lines. When they do hit, the Brets dont have to cause many wounds to really cripple the really quite small units.

dementian
16-01-2013, 13:48
I may be mistaken but I believe that the rule book says you can only have one KE unit with a magical banner.

Sarael
16-01-2013, 17:19
Too many points spent on magic for Chaos for them to have a chance. If he dropped down to one sorc lord and a BSB he'd have enough points for another unit and a hellcannon...

Malorian
16-01-2013, 17:36
Too many points spent on magic for Chaos for them to have a chance. If he dropped down to one sorc lord and a BSB he'd have enough points for another unit and a hellcannon...

I have thought this in the past with Andy's lists, but it turns out to be a massive form of point denial.

Artinam
16-01-2013, 17:55
He is right on the Knights Errant. One unit of Knights Errant can take a magical Banner. Also keep in mind the FAQ and that you are testing for impetious the moment he gets within 20 inches.
I'm not fond of those Questing Knights, make sure your pick the rights combat with them. Always striking last with a 3+ AS means they get chopped up pretty well by Chaos Warriors.

Anyway I still think that if you pick your combats right you have a decent chance.

Malorian
16-01-2013, 18:03
List fixed (banner moved to KotR.

Yeah the test is a pain, but he'll have his own issues with frenzy.

Those questing knights are great. People don't like them but they come around when they get into a combat they can't win in the first round.

dementian
16-01-2013, 18:20
List fixed (banner moved to KotR.

Yeah the test is a pain, but he'll have his own issues with frenzy.

Those questing knights are great. People don't like them but they come around when they get into a combat they can't win in the first round.

If I can't win a combat in the first round it means I used 1 too few lances :P But in all seriousness I am going to try out Questing Knights for myself the next time I use my brets, still very inexperienced with them.

I hope your GK perform too. I love the idea of them but they die as easy as Knights Errant for almost twice the cost so I am hesitant to use them.

SevenSins
16-01-2013, 18:38
I gave you the vote of confidence this time , Mal, but as we've seen earlier Andy is a tough customer

venomx51
16-01-2013, 20:05
I'm voting for Bretts on this one. I just think the WoC armie has too many points tied up in characters, and not enough bodies on the ground.
I think their mobility won't be so much of an advantage against a mounted army. And the wizards are limited in what damage they can do by the number of dice in the magic pool...

Saying that tho, all it takes is one spell in the right place at the right time to turn the game...

tmarichards
16-01-2013, 20:14
The WoC army is just way too small I think, nowhere near enough bodies on the board and far too many points in characters.

I reckon standard Brets should clean up that WoC, but then again this is far from a standard list- the character set-up, or rather lack thereof, completely misses out on one of the biggest strength of Brets.

Fortunately it's Blood and Glory however, so you'll extra room in your deployment zone to deploy those massive lances...

I'm on the fence about this. I think the Brets should still win it comfortably, but a well-timed Purple Sun through several lances could pretty much end the game.

Perfectionz
16-01-2013, 20:30
I have thought this in the past with Andy's lists, but it turns out to be a massive form of point denial.

IMO the best way to win is by little while giving nothing. Yes magic will be important here but positioning against that many lances will decide the game. Units shaped like pencils are hard to maneuver around a small target.

dementian
16-01-2013, 23:05
Don't imagine it like pencils maneuvering to targets picture it like Mal wiping 5 darts at you. A couple are bound to stick :P

0800hell
18-01-2013, 21:27
Its goanna be chaos because chaos is almighty + the wizards will do well in turns 1/2 + can put in some nice hexes/aguments in 3/4 and the units shud be sturdy enough to hold out. It will be close but chaos will win :)

MR. GRUMPY
18-01-2013, 23:42
Why 12 grail knights? They are horribly overpriced. o.o Much better to invest in a character buss.

Malorian
19-01-2013, 01:22
Why 12 grail knights? They are horribly overpriced. o.o Much better to invest in a character buss.

Until death magic starts killing 2 of your characters a turn...

MR. GRUMPY
19-01-2013, 01:52
Until death magic starts killing 2 of your characters a turn...

Unlikely to happen in most games. :p
They will see combat just as often as that point sink of grail knights unit will and will kill more while having better saves.

TsukeFox
19-01-2013, 05:38
Brettonians are still only human.

The Warrior armour saves and raw attack power will ensure they will never loose steadfast.
The questing knights will die in drives n

Now a thought.

Could your opponent take pics of their army so that you can display what they really have before we the viewer settle on imagining what objects are which?

TsukeFox
19-01-2013, 05:39
Brettonians are still only human.

The Warrior armour saves and raw attack power will ensure they will never loose steadfast.
The questing knights will die in drives n

Now a thought.

Could your opponent take pics of their army so that you can display what they really have before we the viewer settle on imagining what objects are which?

Die in droves *

Kayosiv
19-01-2013, 11:29
He only has 3 units, and they're all slow. His army relies heavily on random magic and eye of the Gods rolls with his 850 points in characters sunk into magic. If you can defeat his 2 halberd units, which should be easy considering their small numbers, his army will crumble to your combat resolution and ability to just charge his tough block and warshrines with 4 units of knights at once. Your scroll can shut down 1 magic phase and by turn 2 you will be in combat where his Tzeentch sorcerers will be useless. I think Brets have the list advantage here because they can outnumber his units 2 to 1 and are more maneuverable. I do think however that you should have brought a Trebuchet. 1 round of direct hit rocks on either of those halberd units and the game was yours for the taking.

Perfectionz
19-01-2013, 13:08
Warshrines are units....that makes 5...and 2 flying characters....I DO know what I am doing with the list =]

TsukeFox
19-01-2013, 13:41
Warshrines are units....that makes 5...and 2 flying characters....I DO know what I am doing with the list =]

There is a method to the madness.

Let us hope the next book does not let get players away with it.

MR. GRUMPY
19-01-2013, 13:47
Oh dear theres questing knights to and lots of them. Well I give this to the chaos on the paper but it will be a bloody and fun game to see.

Malorian
20-01-2013, 14:18
Game is done and it was bloody! Report will be up later today! :)

danny-d-b
20-01-2013, 14:36
wow looking forward to this mal- sounds like a gooden

Malorian
20-01-2013, 18:23
Here's the report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5X8SHYvcw

TsukeFox
20-01-2013, 19:09
You know with your superior mobility would it not have been advisable to spread out your forces at the deployment phase thusly giving you more of a chance to get key flank charges & play cat & mouse and wait for key charges to destroy the smaller warrior blocks ?

A killing blow paladin or a heroic killing blow guy would have helped too perhaps.

See you at the Bash-!!

Malorian
20-01-2013, 19:59
You know with your superior mobility would it not have been advisable to spread out your forces at the deployment phase thusly giving you more of a chance to get key flank charges & play cat & mouse and wait for key charges to destroy the smaller warrior blocks ?

A killing blow paladin or a heroic killing blow guy would have helped too perhaps.

See you at the Bash-!!

It could have been, and that was the plan, but things change when you lose half your army at the start of turn 2 ;)

Remember too that I deployed before him and in fact I expected him to deploy behind the river on the right.


See you there :)

danny-d-b
20-01-2013, 20:27
shame to see the game fall apart turn 2- but hay thats sometime the game works, good to see you trying to carry on anyway!!

TsukeFox
20-01-2013, 21:07
It could have been, and that was the plan, but things change when you lose half your army at the start of turn 2 ;)

Remember too that I deployed before him and in fact I expected him to deploy behind the river on the right.


See you there :)

Right-
What I meant was to deploy in such a way as to give up the center and focus on the flanks ? All theory of course.

Swift reform the troops that may End up away from battle to rejoin it.
Something like that.

Sarael
20-01-2013, 21:15
QKs got rubbersword, Sun got IF. That'll ruin your day for sure. Would have been interesting to see how that first combat could have gone with another lance charging in. I personally never fear a single lance of brett knights charging in, but mix in a 2nd and I start to sweat.

Next time keep the loaded magic dice on your side of the table :P

SevenSins
20-01-2013, 21:37
Danny gets you again? Bad trend you're setting here.... Time to bring out the vampires again, Mal?

Brawler Bash sounds like fun though :)

Perfectionz
20-01-2013, 22:50
Great game Mal. I will say that I was worried with my big block on that charge, though thinking back to it I had LD10 stubborn reroll...I also may be at Brawler Bash with my WoC, which is a harder list than this one by my standards.

TsukeFox
20-01-2013, 23:08
Great game Mal. I will say that I was worried with my big block on that charge, though thinking back to it I had LD10 stubborn reroll...I also may be at Brawler Bash with my WoC, which is a harder list than this one by my standards.

Any of the new toys tempting you to burn your cash on ?


Gotta say I am thankful that their will be a new Warriors book before then- really hoping for balance and gosh nothing like the 7th edition book: no extra ward saves, RnF warriors & chosen actually having a significant difference other than the Eye chart, & hopefully the Eye Chart being gone.

and I will be EXTRA thankful if daemons come out like march 2nd. **PLEASE OH PLEASE**

Xerkics
20-01-2013, 23:14
Bret lord always trashes my woc with the armour ignoring sword im surprised you done so badly vs normal chaos warriors usually brets just wreck them on the charge and str4 has realy problems penetrating 2+ saves with 5+ ward

Perfectionz
21-01-2013, 00:47
Any of the new toys tempting you to burn your cash on ?


Gotta say I am thankful that their will be a new Warriors book before then- really hoping for balance and gosh nothing like the 7th edition book: no extra ward saves, RnF warriors & chosen actually having a significant difference other than the Eye chart, & hopefully the Eye Chart being gone.

and I will be EXTRA thankful if daemons come out like march 2nd. **PLEASE OH PLEASE**

TBH I haven't even looked at the new stuff yet. Any chance I could get a decent link?

dementian
21-01-2013, 03:01
Bret lord always trashes my woc with the armour ignoring sword im surprised you done so badly vs normal chaos warriors usually brets just wreck them on the charge and str4 has realy problems penetrating 2+ saves with 5+ ward

Str 4 would make it a 3+ armor save 6+ ward save.



TBH I haven't even looked at the new stuff yet. Any chance I could get a decent link?

These are the pictures currently available: http://powerposey.blogspot.ca/

Malorian
21-01-2013, 17:41
Great game Mal. I will say that I was worried with my big block on that charge, though thinking back to it I had LD10 stubborn reroll...I also may be at Brawler Bash with my WoC, which is a harder list than this one by my standards.

Yeah... I forgot about the crown... then again at that point I basically needed something like that to have a chance.

Perfectionz
21-01-2013, 18:54
Just need a yes from the better half now to go to Brawler Bash. lol. Anyone else other than Mal and OB going?

Malorian
21-01-2013, 19:38
Shimmergloom and Chris Tsuke are going.


Right now I'm trying to decide between an etremely competitive army with double troll hordes (all of which will be taken off by one of Perfectionz's purple suns I'm sure) or a fun army with super orc.

Djekar
21-01-2013, 20:02
I'm going as well. Still up in the air over Dark Elves (Cult of Slaanesh) or Orcs - I'm leaning towards Orcs so I can fight Shimmer and Mal for best Orc General!

Malorian
21-01-2013, 20:12
I'm going as well. Still up in the air over Dark Elves (Cult of Slaanesh) or Orcs - I'm leaning towards Orcs so I can fight Shimmer and Mal for best Orc General!

I think we both know how that would go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT4FgC0kNA8

Djekar
21-01-2013, 20:18
I still have a bone to pick with you anyways Mal - I was scheduling a taping where I ripped my shirt off as I called Waaagh! while painted green to promote our Bromance Wargaming channel and then ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDGMxwhxsXM <- that happened. 2 days before the taping.

BRING IT ON!

Malorian
21-01-2013, 20:21
You still should have done it :)


I was thinking though, when we get a bit closer, we should make up a thread for all of our battle reports. The majority of us make battle reports anyway.

Djekar
21-01-2013, 20:31
I will probably do it at some point - I had to give it time after your own call to battle.

Your idea about the joint thread is pretty solid. So far we have Shimmer, OB, you and me that do BReps - and I'm sure I'm missing some others as well. I think it will really interesting to see everyone's opinions on different armies/games after the fact. Also, I'm sure to trash talk quite a bit in the thread, and I do ever so love to trash talk!:D

Shimmergloom
22-01-2013, 04:42
You know with your superior mobility would it not have been advisable to spread out your forces at the deployment phase thusly giving you more of a chance to get key flank charges & play cat & mouse and wait for key charges to destroy the smaller warrior blocks ?

A killing blow paladin or a heroic killing blow guy would have helped too perhaps.

See you at the Bash-!!

Hey, Tsuke, have you ever been to the bash before? I was wondering if I have ever played you or met you. What army are you bringing?

TsukeFox
22-01-2013, 07:48
Hey, Tsuke, have you ever been to the bash before? I was wondering if I have ever played you or met you. What army are you bringing?

Never been. I am going for best Orc too!-

J/k!

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=356110

Going with that army

Djekar
22-01-2013, 12:06
Hold on, the tomb kings are riding to war?! Also, if you're interested Shimmer - here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHiGm8nLdEI) is the link to an old video that has both of us in it.