PDA

View Full Version : I have a huge Warhammer problem, need professional help...



Gharnukk
20-01-2013, 23:05
Greetings.

I know that I have a lot of threads like these floating around. And I also know that it is a couple of weeks
early to ask this kind of question. But... 2013 is the year where I will devote myself (mostly) to just one
army. Paint it, play it and simply enjoy myself. I did not play a single game of Warhammer in 2012. I just
painted stuff that I like and had fun with that.

I have not yet found a Warhammer army that I have "stuck" with. In the 13 years
I have played Warhammer I have owned almost all armies, some several times. And some armies I have just
painted, and some just played with. The army I have had most success with were the new Ogre Kingdoms.
But I found them boring since I felt they are very strong. And I like a challange, they are not challenging, not at all...

My latest purchase was an Warriors of Chaos army in the end of last year (Somewhere around tha release of the
Warshrine and Skullcrushers). Never opened the boxes and was thinking of selling them to fund my mega army of
2013. Right now I just have one army. Lizardmen, and its been a slow project of some stuff I bought used early
last year, with some new stuff added so I can play 2400 point games. It's not any kind of favourite army of mine
but they were my first army back in the days and I like the theme of the aztec "dinosaurs". Competitive too.

Have been curious on the new Tomb Kings since the new release but I never got started.
Just bought the book and then it just didn't happen.

But enough talk about the boring history of my insanly hard time to choose an army and stick with it and on to the real problem...
I'm so tired of not getting the feeling of "This is it" when I choose an army. If I go for looks I hate playing with them, and when I
go for competitive armies I get bored because it's not challenging enough. But how much thought is "normal" to put into the look
of the army? Right now I just want a fun, easy to paint army that I can love and grow with. I already have some Warriors of Chaos.
And with a new book coming out they might be fun. I was going to sell them as I mentioned above but when I found out that they
were getting more stuff I started thinking about keeping them. But we will not know anything until the new book is released and
people start to play. My other option that I have been eager to try is the new Tomb Kings. And bellow I will write some pros and cons:

Warriors of Chaos.

Pros:
* Agressive gameplay
* Great variety in miniatures
* Lots of plastic kits
* New book

Cons:
* Almost too many choices in the book
* Really dont like "chaos" as a theme
* Too badass?

Tomb Kings.

Pros:
* Love the Egyptian theme
* Core units of Chariots!
* Lovely monsters
* They are underdogs
* Easy to paint
* New book

Cons:
* A lot of old models
* A lot of finecast models
* Probably have a hard time with tough armies like Warriors of Chaos...

So there you have it. Thank you if you have read this far. Please let me know what you think. Is this problem normal
or am I doomed?

Kind regards
Gharnukk

Lord Dan
21-01-2013, 01:12
This is a totally normal problem. My new year's resolution this year was to focus on a single army throughout the whole year, and so far (almost a month in :rolleyes:) I'm still going strong with my Skaven Empire. For the record I voted Warriors, simply because it'll be fewer models to paint, they have a new book coming out next month, and have a wider selection of plastic kits to choose from. I've also found a few things help:

1. Theme your army. With Chaos this isn't especially difficult, though with Tomb Kings it would require a bit more work. I've found with the two armies I've been most successful with (My Sylvanian Empire, for those who remember that log, and my Skaven Empire today) I was converting things to represent other things and coming up with background, which allowed me to be especially creative and have some extra fun. Futhermore, it involves you with your army and creates a bit more sentimental attachment than non-themed projects.

2. Create a project log, and ask people to check in on you. There have already been a couple of times with my Skaven where I go a few days without updating and someone just drops in to say "*poke*". Generally that's all I need as a reminder to update or, in some cases, get back to work.

3. Pick another small project to work on when you lose steam. I don't mean a second warhammer army, I mean something like a single figure to paint, a small LoTR warband, or something for another skirmish-style game. This will ensure you don't spend too much time away from your main goal, but gives you something else to do when those inevitable moments strike where you just get sick of painting [insert color for your army's uniform]. Personally, I've got a small Greek army for Hail Caesar that I work on gluing together when I need something mindless to do or don't feel like looking at rats.

Hope this helps!

Jind_Singh
21-01-2013, 05:20
Con = don't like Chaos as a theme...


Solution - don't even consider a Chaos army - ever! If Chaos theme isn't your game a case of Chaos Miniatures isn't the best way to spend money/time!

Stick to the Tomb Kings

1 - you like the theme
2 - you like most of the models
3 - it'll make you a stronger/better player over time as you learn how to master them

They are a thinking generals army though - they are subtle - and not as easy to use as other armies. This in itself is going to be great as they will keep your attention for longer - and are far more gratifying to play with vs a no-brainer army.

Tomb Kings it is then!

Gharnukk
21-01-2013, 08:43
Lord Dan: That was a very ambitious reply. And most helpful. When it comes to themes, all my armies have had
characters that I have named and stories that I have made up. And that have been a problem to me. It's been
like this in my head "The High elf Prince Athalas is way cooler than Gharnukk Skullbasher the Ogre Tyrant". And
thats something I have to decide. An army and then come up with a backround coolest of them all.

The theme of my Chaos army are Barbarians from the north. Who are humans and not a group of mutated foul
things with claws, pincers, boils and other nasty things. Monsters are still monsters. These barbaric tribes are devoted
to a Daemon, not really a "god". And in their name the tribe bring death and destruction across the Old world. And
since they do it in their Daemons name they get granted extra strength, more power. But not in the form of mutations,
other than maybe more muscles. And they get more powerful monsers from the warp gates. And I find that rather fun. Who
says I have to follow GW's view of Chaos. I keep my Warriors and Marauders human.

And my Tomb Kings theme, well it is the story of King Amon-Ra. And he is not really a bad guy. Just
want his land back and the former glory of his kingdoms. And he fights because he want to reclaim his land, because people
are trespassing and because he wants to show that the forces of Amon-Ra is something to fear. You simply do not cross his
borders. I like undead, and I like monsters. So ofcourse the army of Amon-Ra includes tons of Skeletons, Chariots and Monsters.

Jindh_Singh: Haha that was very fast. When I say "Chaos" I literally mean Chaos. And the definition of Chaos is to me:

1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
2. A disorderly mass; a jumble: The desk was a chaos of papers and unopened letters.
3. Often Chaos The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the ordered universe.
4. Mathematics A dynamical system that has a sensitive dependence on its initial conditions.
5. Obsolete An abyss; a chasm.

Denny
21-01-2013, 09:26
I have not yet found a Warhammer army that I have "stuck" with. In the 13 years
I have played Warhammer I have owned almost all armies, some several times.

IMO the jumping between projects is an avoidance strategy.

Picking and starting an army is fun, but painting the dang thing for months on end is tedious. Be assured it be tedious no matter which army you pick. Likewise using the same unpainted army over and over is dull because it just looks so boring. The army never comes ‘alive’.

Just pick an army you like and paint it. Pick a realistic number (say 1500) and make a vow; you will not field an unpainted unit. Now paint. If you decide you want to start another project that’s fine; all you have to do is finish paitning the army you are working on and you can start a new one, but not before. If you are desperate to get a game in then great; get painting and reward yourself with a game, but until the army is painted you do not play it!

Don’t ever sell anything. If you follow my advice you’ll find you won’t have to because it will take you plenty of time to get each unit painted and you’ll never need funds.

This approach takes discipline, but it works. Over time you’ll end up with the core of several well painted armies from which you can expand.

Kallstrom
21-01-2013, 09:33
You can always work your way around the Tk-cons you listed.

- Look for the models you want that are in finecast on ebay, you might find an old metal version of it floating around
- You can converte really cool looking skeletons by mainly using the Vampire Counts skeletons (and even a grave guard kit to get som other bodies and use their curved Great Weapons for something tk'ish). You can make both archers and spear/sword skeletons by just mixing the kits. A tomb king shield and head with a vc body and spear for example. Could even strap some wings on some Dire Wolves to use them as Carrions, or winged and mummified desert lions if you prefer. Many have done some cool conversions to pimp up their tk-army because they find the old models rather lackluster. You can do the same! Don't like the characters? Put a zombie head and some greenstuff on a tomb guard body and you are good to go! Don't like the screaming skull catapults or the casket? Convert or scratchbuild your own! If you are really want a challenge you could try to mumify a giant-kit to use as a Bone Giant instead of the currect model. ;) the stars are the limit.

I'm starting Tomb Kings myself and just bought the book because I love the lore possibilities and the themes/playstyle. Yes, high armored targets will be a threat but imo I would find it more fun and rewarding playing a bunch of skeleton archers who can neither march or stand and shoot over a unit of warriors of chaos with mark of khorne who faceroll any and all opposition. The former is more tactical, which for some is a much needed feature for being able to get the most out of the very gaming experience. :)

CommanderCax
21-01-2013, 10:43
So there you have it. Thank you if you have read this far. Please let me know what you think. Is this problem normal
or am I doomed?


Greetings Gharnukk. You are not doomed. I sort of understand your problem and I think it is rather normal. I also have an army of Chaos Warriors since 3rd/4th ed. (as well as Skaven since 4th ed.) and a Tomb Kings Army since 6th ed. The problem was, when Chaos split itself into three armies I suddenly had two armies more. Normally, I try to focus on one army for a year or two. Last summer my gaming group started a campaign and I joined with my Tomb Kings and so only played with them since then. In 8th edition I haven't played a game with my Skaven so far and only a single game with my Chaos Warriors if I remember correctly. During 7th edition on the other hand I played mostly with my Beastmen at the end. So I would try to focus on a certain army for at least a year before changing again (if at all).

Regarding the decision between CW and TK, I would say take TK. The only thing speaking for CW at the moment is the new army list coming along in the next weeks/months. Maybe you like the theme more, though I doubt it if it is right what the rumours say about the list and what you said about liking the "human element" of CW.

TK are difficult to play and sometimes frustrating, but being successfull with them is far more satisfying than crushing the enemy with a frontal assault of a horde of Chaos Warriors of Khorne. It is an army for the more mature player in my opinion.

Gharnukk
21-01-2013, 11:37
When I play with my closest friends I face Skaven, Orcs and Goblins and Dark elves. And I guess that it is farly easy to beat them with Tomb Kings.
And Chaos utterly crush them. But when it comes to the tournament scene at my gaming club. With armies like Lizardmen, High elves, Daemons and Chaos.
I get worried. Tomb Kings as you mention have a special gameplay. I like some Skeleton warriors as anvils, some chariots, Sphinx hammers, Scorpion and Sepchral stalker ambushers, Archer bunker and then a couple of catapults and a casket.

For Chaos, blocks of Warriors, Marauder horde, Hounds as redirectors, Knights. Then I would like to test Dragon Ogres and a Mutalith Voprtex Beast. Then a Warshrine to buff all the units. And when I say human, I want the Humans to look human. I dont mind monsters in the army.

Daniel36
21-01-2013, 11:52
My advice goes against what most people do, but perhaps you will find your answer in it.

I am currently thoroughly enjoying building my army of Nurgle. They are not a Warriors army, they are not a Daemon army, they are not a Beastmen army. They are a mix. They are not "tournament legal" and I do not give a crap.
I am building them around the very obvious theme of Nurgle, and they are AWESOME!! They are going to look great, and they are going to be a ton of fun to play games with, because honestly, Warhammer isn't and will never be a balanced game so why treat it like we are playing some kind of chess game? If you are going into it with a mindset of tournament versus fluffy , you are either you building an army that is too strong and get bored, or you are building an army that is too weak and get frustrated. So why do that? I don't think Napoleon ever thought about whether or not his army was legal and I am sure he wasn't ever expecting his battles to simply be pitched battles, yet for most people every game they play will be a boring pitched battle with no sense of narrative whatsoever. "Hey man, cool Khorne army. What's that?" "Oh, that is my Tzeentch Sorceror Lord..." "But that ain't very Khorne..." "No, but otherwise I can't win games" - I have heard variations of this all too often, and honestly, I am getting sick of that mind set. Pepole should just play fun, narrative battles for a change and not give a crap about the final outcome.

Ever heard of Storm of Magic? Get the book, it will be the most fun you will ever have with Warhammer without going completely "rogue" in terms of army list building, as Daemons actually have their own chapter as being allies, so... Cool monsters too. Cool objectives as well... It's basically a "rulebook of cool".

So, what kind of Chaos army are you intending to build?

Gharnukk
21-01-2013, 12:15
I have always had Undivided Chaos armies. But the list I was working on before the latest release included Tzeentch Socerer lord on disc, Warrior anvil of Tzeentch, Warrior hammer of Nurgle, Marauder horde no mark, four units of five hounds, Ten Tzeentch knights and a Warshrine. Since Chaos are so expensive and have lot of options I guess with the new book I would try to build something similar but include Dragon ogres and a Mutalith Voprtex Beast as mentioned before.

MasterSparks
21-01-2013, 17:29
If it makes you feel better I can tell you that it can work the other way around, too. Many years ago I started my current Vampire Counts army that I'm still fully engrossed in to this day. I've tried starting many, many other armies during the time but I simply can't. I suffer this enormous pang of guilt when I find myself straying from my chosen path. My VC army is a jealous mistress that'll never let me go.

Back to you, I think it sounds like Tomb Kings should be your army of choice. The other responders in this thread have given you good advice to get you going. I know that's what I would have gone with - I've tried. :)

Gharnukk
21-01-2013, 17:50
I just found out that there will be a Tournament at my gaming club next month. And since I only have Lizardmen at the time that is what I will bring.
It would be impossible (for me) to paint 2400 points worth of models for Tomb Kings or Warriors of Chaos in just one month. Maybe there will be some
nice armies there to inspire me.

MR. GRUMPY
21-01-2013, 23:21
When I play with my closest friends I face Skaven, Orcs and Goblins and Dark elves. And I guess that it is farly easy to beat them with Tomb Kings.
And Chaos utterly crush them. But when it comes to the tournament scene at my gaming club. With armies like Lizardmen, High elves, Daemons and Chaos.
I get worried.

Lol you are more worried by high elves and deamons then your friends dark elves and skaven? They must play very fluffy lists because skaven and DE are concidered top tier armies. :P
High elves dont really like bs shooting with their low armor and t and neither do they like impact hits from chariots so that should be a ok match-up if you roll out TK. :)

m1acca1551
22-01-2013, 03:13
I havent voted, due to a new chaos army book due in a very short time, my advice is to wait and see what the new book offers before starting a TK army then doing the sigh of regret and kicking yourself for not waiting.

If WoC was 6 months away, i'd say go TK nuts they are a very fun and complicated army to play. But i'd wait just a little longer, see if you can resist the lure of the dark gods!!

Gharnukk
22-01-2013, 09:29
Lol you are more worried by high elves and deamons then your friends dark elves and skaven? They must play very fluffy lists because skaven and DE are concidered top tier armies. :P
High elves dont really like bs shooting with their low armor and t and neither do they like impact hits from chariots so that should be a ok match-up if you roll out TK. :)

Well my friend who plays Skaven just started fantasy. So I know the list. And he only have a Doomwheel. No other warmachines and no abomination. Just lots of infantry and Skaven are squishy. Same goes for Dark elves. They are good yes, but he have not had much success with them.


I havent voted, due to a new chaos army book due in a very short time, my advice is to wait and see what the new book offers before starting a TK army then doing the sigh of regret and kicking yourself for not waiting.

If WoC was 6 months away, i'd say go TK nuts they are a very fun and complicated army to play. But i'd wait just a little longer, see if you can resist the lure of the dark gods!!

Yeah I know, that why I said it's a bit early to ask in the start of my first post. But I figured that they are probably not going to change the whole army/rules that much. You dont HAVE to use all the new stuff.

Lord Solar Plexus
22-01-2013, 14:20
I'm sure it was at least a bit tongure in cheek but for professional help I suggest a GW store. There's just laymen around here.

TheDungen
22-01-2013, 19:16
there are warhammer professionals? Outside of GW i mean?

Gharnukk
22-01-2013, 22:21
You shall not mock me! ;) I was referring a shrink. Not Gw. Been looking at battlereports with Tomb Kings VS Warriors of Chaos. And
with Tomb Kings getting utterly destroyed in all of them... My heart that have a soft spot for underdogs feel an urge to join their ranks.
What fun can I have with and army that does not even have to break a sweat killing 50 skeletons? Or chop down Sphinxes with Marauders?

TheDungen
23-01-2013, 00:23
oh professional help like that, that was was i first thought when i read the topic but then i figured that you meant from the pros here from the poll.

Lord Dan
23-01-2013, 04:21
What fun can I have with and army that does not even have to break a sweat killing 50 skeletons?
That might not be the best "fun" yardstick, given that there's actually very little in this game that will break a sweat killing 50 skeletons... ;)

Lord Solar Plexus
23-01-2013, 04:51
You shall not mock me! ;) I was referring a shrink. Not Gw. Been looking at battlereports with Tomb Kings VS Warriors of Chaos. And
with Tomb Kings getting utterly destroyed in all of them... My heart that have a soft spot for underdogs feel an urge to join their ranks.
What fun can I have with and army that does not even have to break a sweat killing 50 skeletons? Or chop down Sphinxes with Marauders?

I wasn't mocking you. I just don't think people can make up their minds in your stead. I mean if your heart tells you "TK" and your feelings shy away from supposedly overpowered WoC, than what are we to say? Not that chopping down 50 Skeletons is all that impressive, especially considering that you need to get there with M4, mind you, and you don't really know what Marauders can or cannot do in a couple of weeks. With just a single strong(er) book and several weak(er) ones in the widest sense of the word, I don't think WoC will be crazily powerful.

And I could ask: What fun can I have with an army that breaks a sweat trying to look the right way? Not that I have any particular army in mind but always losing, always struggling, always turning the game into a sport, or worse, hard labour, isn't fun for everyone either.

Gharnukk
23-01-2013, 06:19
oh professional help like that, that was was i first thought when i read the topic but then i figured that you meant from the pros here from the poll.


That might not be the best "fun" yardstick, given that there's actually very little in this game that will break a sweat killing 50 skeletons... ;)

Touché....

Tomb kings had a major lead from the start of the poll.
But now Chaos are only five votes away. Close one.

Rake
23-01-2013, 11:55
Well, you're caught in between a rock and a hard place. I agree with the sentiment that if you don't like Chaos, you shouldn't consider building them. ON THE OTHER HAND there is (in my personal opinion) no more depressing a feeling in this hobby than loving your army, loving it's theme, and getting betrayed by its rules. It's something that doesn't go away until they reprint the rules, so up to a decade in some cases... and I could make a strong argument that T.K. are gonna be in that category of army book. If you can live with this, go for TK, but be aware of their rule downside. Not that they are underpowered, but if you don't want to play at a handicap your choices in the army will be limited.

draccan
23-01-2013, 15:00
Of the two I would do TK as I love the models. However looking at the rules I feel they are underpowered and slightly dysfunctional. I honestly think you could do more with a VC army with alternative models (thinking Mantic and Gamezone and old Empire from GW converted).

Also if you like monsters, chariots, horde armies you may want to look into Orcs and Goblins. A feral horde of Savage Orcs and Spider and forest goblins may be fun.

At any rate I would check out competitors to bring down costs, it will get you further for a lot less..

Gharnukk
23-01-2013, 19:33
TK are a very expensive army aswell. Much finecast and other pricy boxes.

Aethereas
24-01-2013, 03:43
You shall not mock me! ;) I was referring a shrink. Not Gw. Been looking at battlereports with Tomb Kings VS Warriors of Chaos. And
with Tomb Kings getting utterly destroyed in all of them... My heart that have a soft spot for underdogs feel an urge to join their ranks.
What fun can I have with and army that does not even have to break a sweat killing 50 skeletons? Or chop down Sphinxes with Marauders?

Last game i played against WoC with my Tomb Kings, i utterly destroyed them. It was a massacre, seriously. I only lost 5 horse archers. You really have to play lots of games, and then you'll become really good with em :D

Plus, my converted King, Skaara, owns matches only by being awesome >: D i mean look at him!
http://i.imgur.com/CobuE.jpg

arthurfallz
25-01-2013, 15:00
Since most of your posts seem to be leaning Chaos, this feels like a foregon conclusion. Go with what you want, not what this poll says! As to sticking with an army, there is no way to do it except (I think it was Lord Dan said) just stick to it. TK and Chaos are both solid, fun armies.

Gharnukk
01-02-2013, 07:13
It is really fun to see that the poll is so close.
I thought that Chaos would win. Right now im
95% sure about Tomb Kings, simply because I
like the theme. And I like all models except for
the old skeletons and skullcatapult.

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 07:21
Well, that's good! Now your problem seems manageable at least! :)

Misfratz
01-02-2013, 07:41
* Really dont like "chaos" as a theme

* A lot of finecast modelsIs this a normal problem? I think so. I currently have models for, um, about eight of the different fantasy factions. I have kept all of the models I have bought rather than selling them to buy the next ones.

I wanted to pick up on just a couple of your pro and con points.

On Chaos, one of the Cons you listed was that you didn't like Chaos as a theme. For me personally this is a big red flag and I would not consider Warriors of Chaos any further.

For Tomb Kings, you were worried about the relatively small number of plastic kits and the large number of finecast kits. I don't tend to think that this is a huge problem. Tomb Kings have six different plastic kits:
Warriors - with spears or bows
Chariots
Horsemen - with spears or bows
Tomb Guard
Snake Construct things - with or without riders
Large Sphinx Construct - with or without crew, including a Tomb Lord

Many of these kits have spare parts, which allow you to make a complete Tomb Kings army solely in plastic - provided you are willing to do some conversion work to create a Liche Priest.

So, if I were you, I would go with Tomb Kings. Though, as I am I, my preference is marginally for Chaos, because Tzeentch has plans for me.

Kallstrom
01-02-2013, 12:38
Correct me if Im wrong but does not the sphinx-kit contain a priest and not a king?

The finecast figuers can either be converted up with other kits or you can go metal-hunting on ebay.
I for one dont like some things but I will convert them. For example, Im not very fond of snakes in any shapes or forms - so right there I have a problem with the Knights and Stalkers. However, Im trying to find ways around this by coming up with a completly other looking kind of model, but with the same rules. Or Ill just grab the bull by the balls and ride the tide like those brave snake surfers (just that surfing concept grinds my gears btw..).

Start a blog once you begin! :)

Rakariel
01-02-2013, 13:03
If you like the Tomb Kings Theme and that of WoC not, well there you have it! :)
From a hobbyist point of view i wouldnt consider an army which theme i dont really like, you should be comfortable playing with it, the models are expensive enough as it is.