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Darnok
23-01-2013, 18:00
I got the following by a friendly birdy:


"I have been told that the recent update of apple codex's with rules not updated elsewhere was an oversight by the design team, and that a pdf will become available "once someone has time." As a result of the negative feedback on these ipad updates and whitedwarf content, the design team has said they won't be including rules for armies in whitedwarf anymore."

So instead of improving on the one thing that made WD somewhat useful again, they just stop it. Now that will create so much good will towards them... :rolleyes:

Bigglesworth
23-01-2013, 18:04
Negative feedback from who though? I thought online boards were a minority...


And will they cease the Ibooks updates too?

duffybear1988
23-01-2013, 18:16
Just as well I stopped buying it then. I like the fact that they say rules will only be updated when they get time - not updating rules is an easy way of driving their consumers away.

Lars Porsenna
23-01-2013, 18:37
Don't really see the point in WD anymore then. I was only ever an infrequent buyer anyway, only when there was content that interested me or there were new RULES I needed/wanted. If all it's going to be is figure eye candy, I can get that on the internet...

Damon.

loveless
23-01-2013, 18:45
Hell, we're still waiting for the Daemon update to get posted - or was the flyer update before that, even? I don't recall.

I've pestered them several times about not being able to get the rules. Though I've also pestered them about only have their books on the Apple platform (contrary to popular belief, not everyone has an iProduct). This was not what I was expecting.

Sildani
23-01-2013, 18:47
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As usual. Think this is reliable?

Sgt John Keel
23-01-2013, 18:52
I got the following by a friendly birdy:



So instead of improving on the one thing that made WD somewhat useful again, they just stop it. Now that will create so much good will towards them... :rolleyes:

Honestly, for rules in WD to work, I really think they need to publish annual collections again. And that really requires more actual content than what they've got now.

Darnok
23-01-2013, 19:06
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As usual. Think this is reliable?

Yes to both.

Charax
23-01-2013, 19:11
Well, that's the last remaining reason to buy WD gone. I'm actually happy about this, the only time I bought a copy after 320 was for Spearhead, and I resent that for making my collection non-sequential.

WD rules are an inconvenience unless collected together or made available for free online, and it's been painfully obvious for a long time that neither of those is going to happen.

shelfunit.
23-01-2013, 19:27
Well I supose they finally realised that all the remaining "content" was getting in the way of the pictures and advertising...

cpl_hicks
23-01-2013, 19:35
"I have been told that the recent update of apple codex's with rules not updated elsewhere was an oversight by the design team, and that a pdf will become available "once someone has time." As a result of the negative feedback on these ipad updates and whitedwarf content, the design team has said they won't be including rules for armies in whitedwarf anymore."


Could we be reading this sentance incorrectly, and could it be that the rules will no longer be included within the Ipad white dwarfs? Im just chucking this out there

shelfunit.
23-01-2013, 19:42
Could we be reading this sentance incorrectly, and could it be that the rules will no longer be included within the Ipad white dwarfs? Im just chucking this out there

Would that not then gut the sales of the iWD? What would be the point of getting it if all the rules supplements were only in the "hard" copy?

75hastings69
23-01-2013, 19:45
Lol, how have they even managed to remove any content from WD? Lol, GW make me smile :) I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

cpl_hicks
23-01-2013, 19:59
Would that not then gut the sales of the iWD? What would be the point of getting it if all the rules supplements were only in the "hard" copy?

If paper white dwarf was selling less than iWD? Paper white dwarf comes out (in the uk) earlier in GW stores than anywhere else, making you go in and buy it and possibly pickup/get badgered into buying something else. With iWD you have no over 'advertising'/peer presure to purchase anything else. If GW have seen a sharp drop in purchase in line with the pickup of iWD they could be (incorrectly maybe) linking them.

In the UK we have seen a number of retailers go under recently (Comet, HMV, Blockbuster) who have all failed to embrace digital content, but GW's main focus is actually the other way they sell physical products that you cannot get elsewhere (indys still buy from WD so the cost still goes back to them), while digital content actually removes from their main product as most digital contenet is beteer than GW's

As loveless says, not everyone has an iProduct - so sales may be a lot less that expected, and actually having a digital product that is the same as a physical product dosent add any value (not money value but business 'value'), if the digital product was changed to be different it would have two different views on the hobby (also people might buy both products and GW get more money)

In the past GW has said that no rules would be avaialble in GW as you end up waliking around with a codex/white dwarf/printed doc that your opponenet may not have, if they go back to the origional idea of one location for rules, they then help new players, and make people buy hardback rules books

just a couple of ideas, and Im not saying they are correct in anyway, but you always have to look at these things a couple of differant ways

shelfunit.
23-01-2013, 20:09
If paper white dwarf was selling less than iWD? Paper white dwarf comes out (in the uk) earlier in GW stores than anywhere else, making you go in and buy it and possibly pickup/get badgered into buying something else. With iWD you have no over 'advertising'/peer presure to purchase anything else. If GW have seen a sharp drop in purchase in line with the pickup of iWD they could be (incorrectly maybe) linking them.

In the UK we have seen a number of retailers go under recently (Comet, HMV, Blockbuster) who have all failed to embrace digital content, but GW's main focus is actually the other way they sell physical products that you cannot get elsewhere (indys still buy from WD so the cost still goes back to them), while digital content actually removes from their main product as most digital contenet is beteer than GW's

As loveless says, not everyone has an iProduct - so sales may be a lot less that expected, and actually having a digital product that is the same as a physical product dosent add any value (not money value but business 'value'), if the digital product was changed to be different it would have two different views on the hobby (also people might buy both products and GW get more money)

In the past GW has said that no rules would be avaialble in GW as you end up waliking around with a codex/white dwarf/printed doc that your opponenet may not have, if they go back to the origional idea of one location for rules, they then help new players, and make people buy hardback rules books

just a couple of ideas, and Im not saying they are correct in anyway, but you always have to look at these things a couple of differant ways

There are no data on iWD sales, but I doubt they are more than 1% of current WD circulation (which in the early 90's was in the high 10's of thousands*). If the hard copy comes with rules whilst the i-version does not, then I expect the I-version will lose sales. Embracing the internet is another discussion, I was just replying to your previous post.

*going from memory here.

The Decayed
23-01-2013, 20:19
Hopefully I'm understanding this right, and they won't update the rules in iCodexes / Armybooks anymore either?

I hate the fact my Chaos COdex has flawed rules printed in it, without access to the updated version.
As long as they keep the initial flaws in the iStuff too, they might be motivated by that to think about what the hell they release for sale and finally start proof-reading again.

I noticed a discussion on rules in the new Dark Angels thread, where apparently the Codex and iCodex stated conflicting rules.
How the hell can that even be after 2 weeks of the book existing?
How would and iFan and a paperbookFan be able to play a fai DarkAngalsvs DarkAngels game if within 2 weeks the rules have become 2 different versions?

Damn I really REALLY hope GW's digital "products" is backfiring on them. Just this soon is better news than I could have dared to hope for.

If there's a 2nd version of the Chaos Marine Codex is available, I'm gonna go into the GW I bought my current one, and demand an updated version for it in return.
I'm sure as hell not buying any of their books again within half a year of it's release because of this crap now.

Hopefully this didn't go too far off-topic, I forgot the original topic in my rant-rage. At least I think I started on topic...

Herzlos
23-01-2013, 20:36
Good. Rule updates in the magazine is a terrible idea; it means that 3 weeks later the rules are impossible to find (Sisters, the new flyer wave) and forces people to buy a magazine that's otherwise useless on the basis that they might need the rules later.

Having the flyers separate in store (rather than bundled with WD) would be better, as would putting PDFs on the web, even if it's a month or 2 later to encourage magazine sales.

Hellebore
23-01-2013, 20:40
Statements from GW about 'feedback' always make me leary. Because the most visible feedback is the internet, but GW supporters dismiss it as the vocal minority. I doubt people have letterbombed GW about white dwarf rules...

So either GW do listen to the vocal minority, or the internet audience aren't as minor as people claim.

Hellebore

ihavetoomuchminis
23-01-2013, 21:14
I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

My very same thought. It's like they want the company to fail as fast as possible, take all the money they can before this happens and leave.

Lord Damocles
23-01-2013, 21:18
*Slow clap*

If true; just wow. GW seem to have confirmed that they've totally lost the plot as far as White Dwarf is concerned.

ihavetoomuchminis
23-01-2013, 21:19
If it was only Whit Dwarf.....

Sgt John Keel
23-01-2013, 21:28
As loveless says, not everyone has an iProduct

Not even an iProduct, it's iPad only. I assume that's because it's far easier for them to do the layout in a static manner, instead of having it adapt to different screen sizes.

xxRavenxx
23-01-2013, 21:45
Hopefully I'm understanding this right, and they won't update the rules in iCodexes / Armybooks anymore either?

I think the idea might be that they post up new rules in the FAQs section, and edit the digital products at the same time to update those, keeping all new rules available to everyone who needs them...


If true; just wow. GW seem to have confirmed that they've totally lost the plot as far as White Dwarf is concerned.

See above. It seems a fair enough decision to me.



And to whoever said that it must be based on web-feedback, consider that retailers get asked for things, and we in turn ask GW if they're available, etc. (And presumably the same happens in their own stores). They get feedback on what is asked for.

For example: Island of blood originally came with no rules for the units. (just a note that the statlines were in the bestiary.) Two days after release, after complaints from presumably multiple retailers, including myself, a printout was issued to let people play out of the box. (I suspect the sheet was later added to the box too, but havn't checked.)

GW *DO* listen to feedback. They just don't always act on it.

violenceha
23-01-2013, 21:49
There's always the possibility that rules in WD was only meant to be a bandaid solution right from the start. I guess new rules will now be sold separately through their website?

75hastings69
23-01-2013, 21:58
So what will they put in WD in place of the rules? Perhaps more paint splatter..... because its great, maybe a 6 page spread of stockists in Mozambique? WD = fail

Chivs
23-01-2013, 22:02
I didn't mind compulsory rules being in White Dwarf, so long as they were then available on the Website afterwards. After all, if people have missed the White Dwarf episode, or joined the game after it was published, how are they supposed to access them?

As GW don't seem to agree with this (The Sisters of Battle Codex is over a year old now? I've heard on this site of someone asking GW Customer Service how to get the Sisters rules being told to use them as Counts as Space Marines), I can't say that this will be a bad thing. White Dwarf should not be a compulsory purchase to play the games accurately - it then becomes a 5.50 monthly fee. Charging for them on Ipad (and only the ipad) is just as bad. "I've bought my codex, rulebook and new Ork Bommer and I'm ready to use it. What do you mean after all this I've got to also buy a digital file to use the damn thing? Shouldn't my Codex contain this?"

White Dwarf is the perfect venue for extra scenarios or missions, like the Scramble mission from the Flyers issue. It's not compulsory, so no-one really loses out if they missed it. But if things like this will no longer appear in White Dwarf and all it contains is pictures of Models, as others are saying there's no point in buying it anymore. You don't get useful information out of it!

yarrickson
23-01-2013, 22:46
IIRC the 40k rulebook even specifically says something along the lines of (regarding fortifications) watch white dwarf for rules for new fortifications. So this is a big shift from that even.

Mastodon
23-01-2013, 22:54
I think the idea might be that they post up new rules in the FAQs section, and edit the digital products at the same time to update those, keeping all new rules available to everyone who needs them...



See above. It seems a fair enough decision to me.



And to whoever said that it must be based on web-feedback, consider that retailers get asked for things, and we in turn ask GW if they're available, etc. (And presumably the same happens in their own stores). They get feedback on what is asked for.

For example: Island of blood originally came with no rules for the units. (just a note that the statlines were in the bestiary.) Two days after release, after complaints from presumably multiple retailers, including myself, a printout was issued to let people play out of the box. (I suspect the sheet was later added to the box too, but havn't checked.)

GW *DO* listen to feedback. They just don't always act on it.

That IOB sheet has disappeared off their website now, very annoyingly.

I imagine they got a lot of feedback from people at events too, it is rather annoying to have to track down copies of white dwarf for people by ringing round to see who has what in their stockrooms. It was stupid of them to make the new magazines one month only for that exact reason.

Darnok
23-01-2013, 23:23
As soon as somebody wants to buy a model with (at that moment) WD only rules, he/she will do the following: ask the staff about where to get the rules. Said staff is either lucky enough to have the right WD still in stock (very unlikely), or will tell the customer to call/mail GW. Given that there where some nice models released with rules only available in WD, it is not that strange that GW got lots of calls and/or mails on that subject - no need for internet feedback at all.

I really don't understand how they can be so lazy with this. "We'll get those online as soon as somebody has time" is an excuse I expect from a small garage business, not a firm the size of GW. That statements reeks of ignorance and arrogance.

And now instead of improving their "hobby magazine" and doing something about their issues - they scrap it alltogether. Again, that's lazy and ignorant. And I wonder wether they will return to only release models together with armybooks/codizes. I for one thought it was a good move to bring out stuff inbetween, and using WD for the rules was a good idea too - as long as they are provided onlne shortly afterwards.

Well, seems like once again GW chooses the easy, but stupid, way out.

Thuggrim
24-01-2013, 00:18
Lol, how have they even managed to remove any content from WD? Lol, GW make me smile :) I swear its like they're deliberately trying to do bad things!

They heard negative things about their quality control and are now ensuring no content makes it to the hobby magazine - it will be strictly policed :P

Ah GW so amaingly special. If only the negativity about price rises had the same affect. Next they will stop producing new models because some people disliked them :rolleyes:

Voss
24-01-2013, 00:40
I got the following by a friendly birdy:



So instead of improving on the one thing that made WD somewhat useful again, they just stop it. Now that will create so much good will towards them... :rolleyes:


Wait, what now?
Now I get that there could (and probably was) some negative reaction to the ork flyers being re-released as a pay-for apple-only product after the flyers wave, (while the SM flyer was just incorporated into the digital codex), especially when Sisters rules, daemons and WoC updates weren't, but... this is... weird.

But the main problem with the WD content was simply that it isn't available after the issue is gone. I can understand not putting them up while the particular issue is on sale, but... not doing it later was the only real problem. Though I suppose from GW's perspective, adding rules to WD may not have generated the extra sales they wanted/expected.


Big question is, what does this mean for the future? A lot of people had the general impression that this was how armies with larger numbers of kits were going to be released since they seem so focused on just releasing kits alongside the codex, and leaving no units without a model. So how are future army releases going to function? Is everyone just going to be limited to 3-4 new things, and even fewer terrible old models will be redone?


I really don't understand how they can be so lazy with this. "We'll get those online as soon as somebody has time" is an excuse I expect from a small garage business, not a firm the size of GW. That statements reeks of ignorance and arrogance.
Yeah, I don't get this one either. Find someone, anyone, even a low-ranking minion in the warehouse with even a vague tech-background, and it will take all of 5 minutes. Clearly the writing staff knows how to put a doc in a pdf file, so at that point... yeah. Pure crazy.




I noticed a discussion on rules in the new Dark Angels thread, where apparently the Codex and iCodex stated conflicting rules.
How the hell can that even be after 2 weeks of the book existing?
How would and iFan and a paperbookFan be able to play a fai DarkAngalsvs DarkAngels game if within 2 weeks the rules have become 2 different versions?

The FAQ update catches the paper version up to the iBooks version (which got its errata in december). There was another this week, but I'm not sure what actually changed this time, other than the random bit of Vampire Counts fluff that was in the company master background pop-out was fixed and replaced with the correct paragraph.


Damn I really REALLY hope GW's digital "products" is backfiring on them. Just this soon is better news than I could have dared to hope for.

If there's a 2nd version of the Chaos Marine Codex is available, I'm gonna go into the GW I bought my current one, and demand an updated version for it in return.

:shifty: There is (actually they are up to version 1.4). Version 1.2 on Jan 14 incorporated the FAQ update, and the Helbrute points value (or whatever else was wrong with it) was updated today, bring it up to version 1.4

But this is the _point_ of the digital codexes, and one of the only things that even barely justifies the price tag on them. Not updating them would be as stupid as... well, what they are apparently doing with WD and the lack of pdfs for the WD content.

I needed an iPad this year because I am doing a lot of note-taking in a wide variety of locations. Since I was getting one anyway, I specifically bought the iBooks copy of the DA codex because it is the superior product. The problems with both editing and rules updates for the last couple years (coupled with the increased cost) turned me off GW paper products completely. I've always hated the 'replace the second sentence of the third paragraph' style of errata that GW does. Having the corrected form in its entirety is a significance bonus in rules clarity.

wyvirn
24-01-2013, 00:47
On one hand, unless they want to hold onto completed models like the Terrorguiest (sp), they have to release rules somehow. That may be online .pdf like some of the datasheets.

On the other, they are slowly removing everything that made WD cool and relevant. Non Battle-rep stories, hand drawn illustrations, rules for new units, rules for expanding the game, etc. Sad really.

violenceha
24-01-2013, 00:50
Shouldn't we be shooting the messenger by now?

Voss
24-01-2013, 01:03
Shouldn't we be shooting the messenger by now?

He's an anonymous birdy for a reason.

violenceha
24-01-2013, 04:15
Technically Darnok is the messenger:shifty:

Art Is Resistance
24-01-2013, 05:30
Or, it could mean, that GW are about to start including stat cards with models that don't appear in the AB / Codex....
Now would that little nugget satisfy you all?

Ronin[XiC]
24-01-2013, 07:30
Yes. I actually love that idea. Makes armybooks a NON mandatory buy

shelfunit.
24-01-2013, 07:35
;6604530']Yes. I actually love that idea. Makes armybooks a NON mandatory buy

That wasn't what he meant...


including stat cards with models that don't appear in the AB / Codex....

... You'd still have to buy the army books - you would not however be forced to shell out 5.50 for the monthly catalogue that may, or may not have the rules you need.

EDIT: As soon as te rules change etc they would have to recall all the boxes though as the models would then be pckaged with the wrong rules/pts, a reason why this would probably not happen in the first place.

Count Zero
24-01-2013, 07:49
That wasn't what he meant...



... You'd still have to buy the army books - you would not however be forced to shell out 5.50 for the monthly catalogue that may, or may not have the rules you need.

EDIT: As soon as te rules change etc they would have to recall all the boxes though as the models would then be pckaged with the wrong rules/pts, a reason why this would probably not happen in the first place.

what about a code to allow you to d/l the rules, which could then be updated, however i don't really see how that would be better than just putting the rules online anyway, assuming it's just for these between book releases.

Herzlos
24-01-2013, 07:54
That wasn't what he meant...



... You'd still have to buy the army books - you would not however be forced to shell out 5.50 for the monthly catalogue that may, or may not have the rules you need.

EDIT: As soon as te rules change etc they would have to recall all the boxes though as the models would then be pckaged with the wrong rules/pts, a reason why this would probably not happen in the first place.

The cards don't need to be packaged into the boxes, the staff just need a box of cards which they give out when someone buys the boxes.

shelfunit.
24-01-2013, 08:37
The cards don't need to be packaged into the boxes, the staff just need a box of cards which they give out when someone buys the boxes.

A good solution - although the printing & delivery of new cards would inevitably lead to even higher (and higher frequencies) of price hikes, so overall, maybe not such a great (overall) idea...

williamsond
24-01-2013, 08:54
Real easy problem to solve just release pdfs of new rules for free and let people print them out as they see fit, wacky idea I know I mean how would they possibly make any money if the rules were free and people were only buying models...

xxRavenxx
24-01-2013, 09:36
Yeah, I don't get this one either. Find someone, anyone, even a low-ranking minion in the warehouse with even a vague tech-background, and it will take all of 5 minutes. Clearly the writing staff knows how to put a doc in a pdf file, so at that point... yeah. Pure crazy.

I can answer this one too :P And you won't like the answer...

GW has departments. Guys from departments can only do their own job. Many jobs require multiple departments.

For an example I know to be true:

My old store location was on the store finder. I asked my rep to have it removed. He messaged IT to ask to have it taken down. IT referred it back saying they'd need "the database manager" to correct the master list. He refused to change the list, because it would delete evidence of previous dealings with my store. This info was sent back to my rep, who informed me that nothing could be done at this time.

It took six months of complaining, while dropping suggestions that maybe they should use a seperate list of retailers for the storefinder so that they can edit it, for it to be fixed. Because it wasn't one persons job. It was three.

And thus the wheels of bureaucracy turn. Slowly, and tangled in red tape :P

tristessa
24-01-2013, 09:48
I think it's a bit foolish to buy this idea that GW don't know what they're doing with stuff like White Dwarf, rules updates and the like. They'll have a greater range of information than the internet, along with people employed to actually break it all down and work out what is best. The pining for the White Dwarf of the mid-nineties or Paul Sawyer is tiresome because it's a completely isolated statement that doesn't figure in how much everything has changed since. The emergence of the internet essentially finished that era of print off - now we have instant access to everything. You can't have your cake and eat it sadly.

Also, you got old and some of the magic went. Sorry kids, that's how it is. To wage a personal war against GW, is a real waste of your time - go find something to do that makes you happier. You'll feel better and have more time on your hands to enjoy things. You'll not change GW to suit your unreachable expectations. Maybe start your own company and give it a go? It's pointless to keep bashing GW at every chance though - does that make you happy? It's just annoying to see a thread fall back on the same old themes time and time again.

Finally, I think there's a pretty good chance that 99% of the gaming community can access the internet to get rules updates, so why should they be included in WD? Pointless use of space. The magazine, like so many magazines, is an advertising pitch! Almost every magazine in the world is funded by selling advertising space. GW go the other way and subsidise it themselves. Personally I still enjoy reading it though the content has evolved over time, but then again if there's something lacking I can find a blog that will cover it. Choice is a good thing!

orlanth1000
24-01-2013, 10:53
Technically Darnok is the messenger:shifty:

Yeah shoot him a few times, then nuke him from orbit just to be sure :shifty:

The new WD just ushers in completely the age of cartoonish GW.

I miss the golden age, everything was so simple and innocent back then :D


















Cartoonish........................not a real word :shifty:

Herzlos
24-01-2013, 11:32
I think it's a bit foolish to buy this idea that GW don't know what they're doing with stuff like White Dwarf, rules updates and the like. They'll have a greater range of information than the internet, along with people employed to actually break it all down and work out what is best. The pining for the White Dwarf of the mid-nineties or Paul Sawyer is tiresome because it's a completely isolated statement that doesn't figure in how much everything has changed since. The emergence of the internet essentially finished that era of print off - now we have instant access to everything. You can't have your cake and eat it sadly.

Also, you got old and some of the magic went. Sorry kids, that's how it is. To wage a personal war against GW, is a real waste of your time - go find something to do that makes you happier. You'll feel better and have more time on your hands to enjoy things. You'll not change GW to suit your unreachable expectations. Maybe start your own company and give it a go? It's pointless to keep bashing GW at every chance though - does that make you happy? It's just annoying to see a thread fall back on the same old themes time and time again.

Finally, I think there's a pretty good chance that 99% of the gaming community can access the internet to get rules updates, so why should they be included in WD? Pointless use of space. The magazine, like so many magazines, is an advertising pitch! Almost every magazine in the world is funded by selling advertising space. GW go the other way and subsidise it themselves. Personally I still enjoy reading it though the content has evolved over time, but then again if there's something lacking I can find a blog that will cover it. Choice is a good thing!

The emergence of the internet is all the more reason to step up the quality of WD; make it a better resource than the internet and people will buy it. If it's to become nothing but an advert, then they shouldn't be charging so much for it as it's keeping the readership down.

duffybear1988
24-01-2013, 11:49
I think it's a bit foolish to buy this idea that GW don't know what they're doing with stuff like White Dwarf, rules updates and the like. They'll have a greater range of information than the internet, along with people employed to actually break it all down and work out what is best. The pining for the White Dwarf of the mid-nineties or Paul Sawyer is tiresome because it's a completely isolated statement that doesn't figure in how much everything has changed since. The emergence of the internet essentially finished that era of print off - now we have instant access to everything. You can't have your cake and eat it sadly.

Also, you got old and some of the magic went. Sorry kids, that's how it is. To wage a personal war against GW, is a real waste of your time - go find something to do that makes you happier. You'll feel better and have more time on your hands to enjoy things. You'll not change GW to suit your unreachable expectations. Maybe start your own company and give it a go? It's pointless to keep bashing GW at every chance though - does that make you happy? It's just annoying to see a thread fall back on the same old themes time and time again.

Finally, I think there's a pretty good chance that 99% of the gaming community can access the internet to get rules updates, so why should they be included in WD? Pointless use of space. The magazine, like so many magazines, is an advertising pitch! Almost every magazine in the world is funded by selling advertising space. GW go the other way and subsidise it themselves. Personally I still enjoy reading it though the content has evolved over time, but then again if there's something lacking I can find a blog that will cover it. Choice is a good thing!

And yet if the old ways are dead then why are other magazines still packed full of decent articles, guides, rules and tips? Surely if the internet killed that era of greatness off then magazines like Wargames Illustrated would have died off as well?

Na I just don't buy it. White Dwarf has failed because the suits who run the joint are clueless.

Art Is Resistance
24-01-2013, 12:47
Of course, another way to ensure you can get new units out without needing to publish rules elsewhere is use the packaging...
Stat cards printed on boxes, on the back of blister cards (as they're all plastic clamshells now) would be relatively easy.
GW may even be considering this at the moment - who are we to know ;-)....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

tristessa
24-01-2013, 13:34
And yet if the old ways are dead then why are other magazines still packed full of decent articles, guides, rules and tips? Surely if the internet killed that era of greatness off then magazines like Wargames Illustrated would have died off as well?

Na I just don't buy it. White Dwarf has failed because the suits who run the joint are clueless.

Personally I like White Dwarf post-revamp - it feels like a niche magazine should (good paper quality, lots of pages and all that - cf. edge magazine) and the content is pretty good imo (loving the inquisitorial warbands in Blanchitsu at the moment). On the flip side, I find wargames illustrated less inspiring and a bit tattier - the design, paper quality and content all feels a bit cheap... The last copy of Wargames Illustrated I read had video game reviews in there too, which felt like a dilution of content and just filler.

You want to read Railway Modeller if you want to see what magazine full of adverts is like. There's some good content in there but so many adverts! Against that, White Dwarf really does what it needs to. Yet, Railway Modeller is still full of good articles (as is Wargames Illustrated to a point). Nothing has really failed whilst you can still choose one or the other (or both) right?

Sureshot05
24-01-2013, 13:47
I'm not surprised, as one of those that complained about the lack of rules for certain models, but I think it should be "create a pdf" 3 months after the dwarfs release. Exclusive to WD, then available to everyone later. I can't honestly believe that they produce WD and the rules suppliments in such a manner that it's really impossible to create a pdf or postscript file in 5 minutes.

paddyalexander
24-01-2013, 13:55
Odds are that the rules for new models will be released as pay for content exclusive to the istore, the same as the painting articles and anything else that resemmbled content on gwPLCs' "website" and in White Dwarf.

Bigman
24-01-2013, 14:37
Odds are that the rules for new models will be released as pay for content exclusive to the istore, the same as the painting articles and anything else that resemmbled content on gwPLCs' "website" and in White Dwarf.

This. The announcement is simply "you will no longer get free rule updates, you must now pay for them as do people who buy WD to get them".

duffybear1988
24-01-2013, 14:47
Personally I like White Dwarf post-revamp - it feels like a niche magazine should (good paper quality, lots of pages and all that - cf. edge magazine) and the content is pretty good imo (loving the inquisitorial warbands in Blanchitsu at the moment). On the flip side, I find wargames illustrated less inspiring and a bit tattier - the design, paper quality and content all feels a bit cheap... The last copy of Wargames Illustrated I read had video game reviews in there too, which felt like a dilution of content and just filler.


In other words you prefer style over substance. You like thick glossy paper, which for some reason fails to get cut so that you can't see the fold out pictures, but wait that fine because essentially the entire magazine is just a collection of pictures and sycophantic captions.

Also all of those Blanchitsu pictures can be seen on blogs online if you know where to look.

You found Wargames Illustrated cheap because it reviewed a couple of games no doubt linked to war/history, and yet you like WD which reviews it's own books in a completely vomit worthy sickly sweet style of ass kissing proportions!?

WI feels cheaper because well... it is cheaper. I have an entire cupboard filled with old issues of WD and WI and am frequently rummaging through for articles and stuff. Since the WD revamp I haven't once picked up a copy more than twice and don't see the point in holding onto them for the future.

This latest round of White Dwarf is just another example of the Emperor's-New-Clothes-Syndrome which seems rife where ever you look nowadays.

(End Rant)

Luigi
24-01-2013, 14:51
I'm sure as hell not buying any of their books again within half a year of it's release because of this crap now.

I've always been really curious about this: would an Army book purchased now be any different than one purchased when it was released?
If i bought the dwarf army book now, would it's printed content be any different than the one in the book i bought years ago? (mine still has the PRINTED price of 18 euros)

The Decayed
24-01-2013, 15:09
@ Luigi:
At least in 3rd edition 40k this was so.
I have the old Ork codex without a summary in the back, while my friend who bought it way later than I did, does have a copy with a summary in the back.
Even though hit has never been labeled as a 2nd edition version of the same codex, like what happened to the old Dark Eldar codex.

Not sure it the same kind of stuff still happens, but I hope so.

Herzlos
24-01-2013, 16:22
Personally I like White Dwarf post-revamp - it feels like a niche magazine should (good paper quality, lots of pages and all that - cf. edge magazine) and the content is pretty good imo (loving the inquisitorial warbands in Blanchitsu at the moment). On the flip side, I find wargames illustrated less inspiring and a bit tattier - the design, paper quality and content all feels a bit cheap... The last copy of Wargames Illustrated I read had video game reviews in there too, which felt like a dilution of content and just filler.

I don't recall ever seeing a video game review in WI (I've had a subscription for the last ~3 years), there's been the occasional ad for napoleonic games though which seems entirely appropriate. The reviews all seem very fair though, which I can't say the same about WD. It's also got a lot less filler (and whitespace) in it than WD does and is about 20% cheaper (19.1% cheaper in the UK). The only thing WD has over WI is the higher quality paper and glossy feel, but TBH that is the thing I'm least interested in when it comes to magazines.


You want to read Railway Modeller if you want to see what magazine full of adverts is like. There's some good content in there but so many adverts! Against that, White Dwarf really does what it needs to. Yet, Railway Modeller is still full of good articles (as is Wargames Illustrated to a point). Nothing has really failed whilst you can still choose one or the other (or both) right?

I take it you don't count the infomercial style adverts or new stuff in WD as adverts then? Whilst I fully accept some magazines are riddled with adverts, I still think WD is the worst in terms of percentage; the "What's new to buy" section alone is 1/3rd of the magazine by page count, before you get onto the 3rd party product reviews and 'hobby' articles which are usually little more than a list of stuff to buy.

The bearded one
24-01-2013, 17:07
the "What's new to buy" section alone is 1/3rd of the magazine by page count, before you get onto the 3rd party product reviews and 'hobby' articles which are usually little more than a list of stuff to buy.

3rd party product reviews? What 3rd party? Like gw subsidiaries' products, stuff like forgeworld and Pc games? Frankly In my mind I just pile all of this into "gw stuff".

Tbh to me it makes sense GWs magazine shows you what's new. Id find it stranger if it didnt. "Welcome to WD! Wanna know about new exciting stuff? Well too bad, go surf online or something! 'Cause you wont get a good look at it here!"

Most articles arent really spectacular yet, but after the revamp I did see a couple of more interesting things, like the ork flyer using the kopta propellers, which Im keen on doing too. There were a couple armies of the month I enjoyed (the skaven one, mostly) and I liked the greens of the trench terrain, and the goodwin sketches of the new chaos marines were awesome. There's plenty of oppertunity for improvements, but the new WD shows some promise and more willingness to put in some of the stuff we wanted, such as non-studio armies.

I suppose on not including rules in WD anymore all I can say .. at least you can't accuse WD anymore of (ab)using rules to drive up sales ;)

Hengist
24-01-2013, 17:17
I think it's a bit foolish to buy this idea that GW don't know what they're doing with stuff like White Dwarf, rules updates and the like. They'll have a greater range of information than the internet, along with people employed to actually break it all down and work out what is best.

I'm far from convinced by this statement, since I've seen no evidence that GW have profiled or solicited feedback from their customers in more than a decade. Andy Jones' testimony in the Chapterhouse case pretty much confirms this impression.


The pining for the White Dwarf of the mid-nineties or Paul Sawyer is tiresome because it's a completely isolated statement that doesn't figure in how much everything has changed since. The emergence of the internet essentially finished that era of print off - now we have instant access to everything. You can't have your cake and eat it sadly.

That we can all get useful content elsewhere for free does not make White Dwarf any less worthless for containing no useful content while costing 5. By contrast, I'm still getting use out of scenarios and painting articles from early-1990s White Dwarfs - if the magazine still featured such content amid the advertising guff, I would still buy it.

Voss
24-01-2013, 17:22
The emergence of the internet essentially finished that era of print off - now we have instant access to everything. You can't have your cake and eat it sadly.


Thats a fine theory and all, but the fact is GW doesn't do either well. There simply isn't any cake. No instant access AND a bad magazine.


Finally, I think there's a pretty good chance that 99% of the gaming community can access the internet to get rules updates
Yes, we can. GW, on the other hand, seemingly can not access the internet to post the rules updates. This simple fact illustrates that GW objectively doesn't know what they're doing with rules updates.


The cards don't need to be packaged into the boxes, the staff just need a box of cards which they give out when someone buys the boxes.

That just isn't practical, and the computer games industry has pretty much proven this. Brick and Mortar pre-release codes for games get 'lost' or 'forgotten' all the time. You'll have some conscientious store-owners and drones that keep up, but nigh-minimum wage clerks just aren't going to do well with handing out rules.

ihavetoomuchminis
24-01-2013, 17:57
Slightly OT but...is anybody still buying WD??? I don't get it....

Konovalev
24-01-2013, 18:27
What GW ought to do is release all their new units that you previously found in WD, through Forge World and FW books. Afterall FW and GW are the same company as untold masses have assured me, yet somehow FW seems to command an astonishing level of respect from even the very same people who sling every bit of mud they can possibly come up with at GW.

Herzlos
24-01-2013, 19:54
A good solution - although the printing & delivery of new cards would inevitably lead to even higher (and higher frequencies) of price hikes, so overall, maybe not such a great (overall) idea...

The stores already get deliveries, a stack of cards shouldn't hurt. Yeah they'd need to pay to print them though.


That just isn't practical, and the computer games industry has pretty much proven this. Brick and Mortar pre-release codes for games get 'lost' or 'forgotten' all the time. You'll have some conscientious store-owners and drones that keep up, but nigh-minimum wage clerks just aren't going to do well with handing out rules.

It shouldn't be that impractical; for newly packaged stuff the cards can be included during packing, for almost no overhead, or even part of the packaging (even as small as cooking instructions on ready meals). The in-store cards would only need to cover things which have rule changes until pre-packed stock appears, which should be fairly rare and if a staffer forgets to hand one out the customer can just pick one up the next time they come in.

It'll still never happen, because it requires some investment.


3rd party product reviews? What 3rd party? Like gw subsidiaries' products, stuff like forgeworld and Pc games? Frankly In my mind I just pile all of this into "gw stuff".
Subsidiaries is probably a better term than 3rd party. I mean reviews of Black Library books and such.


Tbh to me it makes sense GWs magazine shows you what's new. Id find it stranger if it didnt. "Welcome to WD! Wanna know about new exciting stuff? Well too bad, go surf online or something! 'Cause you wont get a good look at it here!"

They definitely should show what's new; it's one of the main reasons for the magazine, but the whats new shouldn't take up the leading third of the book, and should contain a bit more info than marketting text, pictures and prices. A few pages of pictures and some editorial should be sufficient; telling us something about the new stuff, what it does, it's background, why you should buy it, rather than just the sales pitch.[/QUOTE]

The bearded one
24-01-2013, 20:06
Subsidiaries is probably a better term than 3rd party. I mean reviews of Black Library books and such.

Sales-pitch is probably a better description, as they're not really reviews, and I don't mean that they're not reviews cause they're onesidedly positive on them, its simply marketting text and sometimes interviews with authors.


They definitely should show what's new; it's one of the main reasons for the magazine, but the whats new shouldn't take up the leading third of the book, and should contain a bit more info than marketting text, pictures and prices. A few pages of pictures and some editorial should be sufficient; telling us something about the new stuff, what it does, it's background, why you should buy it, rather than just the sales pitch.

Well, it's often quite a lot.. so that's a lot of pages if you want to give some decent pictures :p

But it will have to be one or the other. Either "not take up the leading third", or "contain a bit more info". It could probably be condenced quite a bit, just not with more info added as well. But you're right, it can use more actually useful info and if we're gonna be honest we could probably pick a couple dozen from warseer's most active members who could do a great job at writing such texts, and I feel developers themselves also often have far more useful things to tell than is let on in many of the interviews (the video's they did around the time of dark eldar (why did they stop?) certainly gave the impression), but often I wonder wether they're even allowed to..

The Decayed
24-01-2013, 21:18
Instead of multiple almost exactly the same pictures all over the place, printed so huge to cost serious space, using weird lighting to still keep you guessing at exact details, they could maybe come back with those pictures of the individual parts painted just good enough to make out the details, and leave it to yourself to think of multiple ways to glue them together, while also making it easy to see how stuff could fit into some conversion you're planning.
All these weirdly lighted pictures of pretty much the same angle give surprisingly little information for the amount of page they require.

I'm quite sure there could easily be more useful info in less pages than what currently happens.

MetalOxide
24-01-2013, 22:19
I heard that GW will be putting the rules from White Dwarf as PDF's on their website. When I was at my local GW a couple of weeks ago I overheard the staff talking about the White Dwarf rules becoming PDF's on the GW website and congratulating a kid who had bought up the issue with GW HQ due to not being able to find rules for the Storm Talon.

lbecks
24-01-2013, 22:24
Instead of multiple almost exactly the same pictures all over the place, printed so huge to cost serious space, using weird lighting to still keep you guessing at exact details, they could maybe come back with those pictures of the individual parts painted just good enough to make out the details, and leave it to yourself to think of multiple ways to glue them together, while also making it easy to see how stuff could fit into some conversion you're planning.
All these weirdly lighted pictures of pretty much the same angle give surprisingly little information for the amount of page they require.

I'm quite sure there could easily be more useful info in less pages than what currently happens.

This is one of the things I asked for when I emailed Jes Bickham. Bring back the components pictures/lists. It gives the hobby team something to do and lets people know exactly what's in the kit. The response was a vague "we'll do our best to let people know what's in a kit."

Mini77
24-01-2013, 22:52
Sprue pics are generally available in advance on the website anyway.

lbecks
24-01-2013, 22:58
Sprue pics are generally available in advance on the website anyway.

That's the difference between free and ten dollars. For ten dollars I appreciate the painted up parts all lined up and numbered with a descriptor.

Voss
24-01-2013, 23:28
It shouldn't be that impractical; for newly packaged stuff the cards can be included during packing, for almost no overhead, or even part of the packaging (even as small as cooking instructions on ready meals). The in-store cards would only need to cover things which have rule changes until pre-packed stock appears, which should be fairly rare and if a staffer forgets to hand one out the customer can just pick one up the next time they come in.

Putting them in the packaging wouldn't be hard- the clamp-packs already have a paper backing, and boxes have absurdly thick instruction booklets these days anyway. One more printed page in the 12-16 page instruction books (like the ones that came with the Deathwing and Black Knight kits) isn't hard at all.

Its cards or whatever that the clerks would have to hand out that would be impractical. Things get lost, or forgotten at the checkout time or snaffled by low paid minions. (Does it show that I usually have poor experiences with hobby shops? I've dealt with one competent staffer out of about 20 in the last 5 years, at various shops around the country).

Misfratz
25-01-2013, 03:50
Honestly, for rules in WD to work, I really think they need to publish annual collections again. And that really requires more actual content than what they've got now.
I actually don't think rules in White Dwarf ever made that much sense, because you end up with fractured rules all over the place.

They are fun, and I kinda like them, but after a while you have a ruleset that is a complete mess, and you need several different sources to make it complete, which is a bit too much hassle.

Voss
25-01-2013, 04:39
I actually don't think rules in White Dwarf ever made that much sense, because you end up with fractured rules all over the place.

They are fun, and I kinda like them, but after a while you have a ruleset that is a complete mess, and you need several different sources to make it complete, which is a bit too much hassle.

Which is why the pdfs that never happened were so important. I honestly don't understand it, since the unavailable rules had to have affected sales.

Ravenous
25-01-2013, 07:45
I can answer this one too :P And you won't like the answer...

GW has departments. Guys from departments can only do their own job. Many jobs require multiple departments.

For an example I know to be true:

My old store location was on the store finder. I asked my rep to have it removed. He messaged IT to ask to have it taken down. IT referred it back saying they'd need "the database manager" to correct the master list. He refused to change the list, because it would delete evidence of previous dealings with my store. This info was sent back to my rep, who informed me that nothing could be done at this time.

It took six months of complaining, while dropping suggestions that maybe they should use a seperate list of retailers for the storefinder so that they can edit it, for it to be fixed. Because it wasn't one persons job. It was three.

And thus the wheels of bureaucracy turn. Slowly, and tangled in red tape :P

Well that is interesting, so that means FAQs and dexs going through multiple hands and not a single damn one of them says anything about the screw ups? "What do I pay you for!" is all I can think of.

Herzlos
25-01-2013, 08:00
Well, it's often quite a lot.. so that's a lot of pages if you want to give some decent pictures :p

But it will have to be one or the other. Either "not take up the leading third", or "contain a bit more info". It could probably be condenced quite a bit, just not with more info added as well. But you're right, it can use more actually useful info and if we're gonna be honest we could probably pick a couple dozen from warseer's most active members who could do a great job at writing such texts, and I feel developers themselves also often have far more useful things to tell than is let on in many of the interviews (the video's they did around the time of dark eldar (why did they stop?) certainly gave the impression), but often I wonder wether they're even allowed to..

Battlefronts "whats new" section is rarely over a couple of pages so it can be done very easily. A decent photo or 2, a couple of lines on it's background and a couple of lines on what you get should be sufficient, and should allow you to cover 4 characters a page, or a couple of units a page. At the moment we've got huge pictures and new items taking a few pages each with no value add.

How many new things were brought out in January and how many pages did it take up?

xxRavenxx
25-01-2013, 09:06
It shouldn't be that impractical; for newly packaged stuff the cards can be included during packing, for almost no overhead, or even part of the packaging (even as small as cooking instructions on ready meals). The in-store cards would only need to cover things which have rule changes until pre-packed stock appears, which should be fairly rare and if a staffer forgets to hand one out the customer can just pick one up the next time they come in.

It'll still never happen, because it requires some investment.

It would be impractical to do this with handouts in store, because you'd need to keep a constant supply of loose sheets/cards to send to shops. As a hobby shop, I'd be annoyed with the stack of paper I'm meant to keep an eye on, and remember to give out with specific boxes. As a more generic retailer (Toymaster?) it just wouldn't happen.


Its cards or whatever that the clerks would have to hand out that would be impractical. Things get lost, or forgotten at the checkout time or snaffled by low paid minions. (Does it show that I usually have poor experiences with hobby shops? I've dealt with one competent staffer out of about 20 in the last 5 years, at various shops around the country).

Because they're uninterested minimum wage staff. You'll find its just as bad in other types of shop too :P


Well that is interesting, so that means FAQs and dexs going through multiple hands and not a single damn one of them says anything about the screw ups? "What do I pay you for!" is all I can think of.

I imagine that noone reads them once they're past person #1. Its not IT guys job to proof read a designers work, for example.

Hengist
25-01-2013, 20:45
I actually don't think rules in White Dwarf ever made that much sense, because you end up with fractured rules all over the place.

They are fun, and I kinda like them, but after a while you have a ruleset that is a complete mess, and you need several different sources to make it complete, which is a bit too much hassle.

Back in the day, people were used to it, and didn't generally care - most of Epic 1st edition and Rogue Trader's supplementary material was published in White Dwarf; rules and/or scenarios are still just about the only content that would make me willing to pay for the magazine.

Voss
26-01-2013, 02:28
It would be impractical to do this with handouts in store, because you'd need to keep a constant supply of loose sheets/cards to send to shops. As a hobby shop, I'd be annoyed with the stack of paper I'm meant to keep an eye on, and remember to give out with specific boxes. As a more generic retailer (Toymaster?) it just wouldn't happen.

Because they're uninterested minimum wage staff. You'll find its just as bad in other types of shop too :P
Oh certainly. I was initially comparing it to all the screwups brick and mortar software stores make with game pre-release codes. Its always a mess, even with AAA titles. It was just reinforced by the terrible customer service I've been having (all over the US) for the last 5 years.
I've had clerks at indie game stores (that sell GW products) tell me that they don't know what Warhammer _is_, let alone where in the store the new releases would be. And this has happened multiple times at different stores. I just find the idea that they'd be able to hand out rules cards to be beyond silly.

esk34
26-01-2013, 07:08
Although if they did hand out cards at only GW stores, it would be another reason to have to go into a GW for your stuff. I shouldn't give GW ideas should I.

If dust, warmahordes, and even infinity(i think) can include unit rules cards with their minis, I cant see why GW can't. There is no hard and fast rule that says you cant do it, in fact in second ed they used to do it with all the vehicle kits.

I think it would be a good thing to get rid of the rules in white dwarf, it would be even better to get rid of white dwarf all together, and replace it with a small glossy catalog that you can get for free at GW stores. Yet another reason to go into GW stores. :)

tristessa
29-01-2013, 10:01
In other words you prefer style over substance. You like thick glossy paper, which for some reason fails to get cut so that you can't see the fold out pictures, but wait that fine because essentially the entire magazine is just a collection of pictures and sycophantic captions.

Like a lot of magazines then isn't it - text and pictures? Magazines are all about selling advertising - show me a magazine that doesn't contain ads!



Also all of those Blanchitsu pictures can be seen on blogs online if you know where to look.

They can! But so can everything. Including things from every other magazine.



You found Wargames Illustrated cheap because it reviewed a couple of games no doubt linked to war/history, and yet you like WD which reviews it's own books in a completely vomit worthy sickly sweet style of ass kissing proportions!?

An expansion for fallout three wasn't really too relevant. I have the critical skills to work out what I like and don't really rely on WD for book reviews. This ability to filter stops me whining about stuff too.



WI feels cheaper because well... it is cheaper. I have an entire cupboard filled with old issues of WD and WI and am frequently rummaging through for articles and stuff. Since the WD revamp I haven't once picked up a copy more than twice and don't see the point in holding onto them for the future.

This latest round of White Dwarf is just another example of the Emperor's-New-Clothes-Syndrome which seems rife where ever you look nowadays.

(End Rant)

Cool - do what you want. that's what I'm saying! I just don't see the point in people always digging at GW, when in essence it's just the same as every other company (only a bit more successful over the years).

Herzlos
29-01-2013, 11:31
Like a lot of magazines then isn't it - text and pictures? Magazines are all about selling advertising - show me a magazine that doesn't contain ads!

I doubt there is a single magazine in existance that contains no ads, as the ad revenue covers a lot of the price.
However, other than some of these $1 womans weeklies, I don't think I've seen any magazines with close to the ad/content ratio WD has these days, especially when you consider the 'infomercial' style ads like the bubbling reviews and the editors notes about never having been so excited about every product launch, and the hobby articles that consist merely of "buy this and glue it to that".

From the last WD I remember reading, I'd estimate that 100 pages were essentially ads, and 50 pages were mostly filler masked as content.


I think a lot of people dig at GW because they remember it being better and are upset/disappointed at seeing a company they used to love becoming a shameful parody of itself.

tristessa
29-01-2013, 15:23
I doubt there is a single magazine in existance that contains no ads, as the ad revenue covers a lot of the price.
However, other than some of these $1 womans weeklies, I don't think I've seen any magazines with close to the ad/content ratio WD has these days, especially when you consider the 'infomercial' style ads like the bubbling reviews and the editors notes about never having been so excited about every product launch, and the hobby articles that consist merely of "buy this and glue it to that".

From the last WD I remember reading, I'd estimate that 100 pages were essentially ads, and 50 pages were mostly filler masked as content.


I think a lot of people dig at GW because they remember it being better and are upset/disappointed at seeing a company they used to love becoming a shameful parody of itself.

The company hasn't changed, but as you've grown older and more cynical (as we all have), you're more aware of it than a young idealistic person. Company + Shareholders = need to generate profit. Given that, I think there's a surprising amount of interesting and more niche releases. That said, all the moaning that goes on about supposedly sub-par units may well lead to a future where that's different.

There's a fineline between showcasing and informing re: new products and advertising, true. However regarding ratio of info to ads, try looking at a railway modeller - there are loads. Edge too - loads of ads, but mostly kept to the end of the magazine.

I'd wager that a lot of reviews in other magazines that you think are editorial content are thinly veiled adverts - i.e a journalist is flown out to america to visit a design/film/games studio, has a good time and writes up a favourable ad. It's all the same shade of nonsense, so just go with it.

de Selby
29-01-2013, 16:03
Seriously, we wish WD included stuff like a journalist visiting the studio.

I have a subscription to Empire magazine. Most of it is exactly the kind of advertorial you describe, written in a way to interest me in upcoming (film) releases. The rest is actual reviews of stuff that's already out (Kim Newman's Video Dungeon is always a good read), mixed with paid adverts for films and film-related gubbins.

We all understand that the purpose of WD is to sell product. If WD could actually make new (and existing) products interesting (instead of just photographing the studio models over and over again) I might actually be buying it.

shelfunit.
29-01-2013, 16:29
The rest is actual reviews of stuff that's already out (Kim Newman's Video Dungeon is always a good read), mixed with paid adverts for films and film-related gubbins.

He wrote a number of older Warhammer and Dark Future books for GW under the pseudonym "Jack Yeovil" (and a few short stories that appeared in older White Dwarfs). I very much like his writing style and story telling ability.

Herzlos
29-01-2013, 16:46
The company hasn't changed, but as you've grown older and more cynical (as we all have), you're more aware of it than a young idealistic person. Company + Shareholders = need to generate profit. Given that, I think there's a surprising amount of interesting and more niche releases. That said, all the moaning that goes on about supposedly sub-par units may well lead to a future where that's different.

I'll concede to being older and more cynical, but that doesn't explain the apparent differences in content between old and new issues. Maybe I'm not remembering the subtle editorial style ads from the earlier ones, so we'll ignore them. I do definitely remember many articles that were along the lines of "here's how to scratchbuild this" (Ork tanks, IG tanks) and sets of rules for mini-games (like Jousting) and actual discussion about what units do. But in the recent issues I remember the hobby articles seem to be more or less "here's what you can buy" with no real content. I don't have any old magazines to compare against though, to provide hard facts. I'll keep an eye out for any going at local conventions though!

Hengist
29-01-2013, 16:59
The company hasn't changed, but as you've grown older and more cynical (as we all have), you're more aware of it than a young idealistic person. Company + Shareholders = need to generate profit. Given that, I think there's a surprising amount of interesting and more niche releases. That said, all the moaning that goes on about supposedly sub-par units may well lead to a future where that's different.

Nobody's disputing the point that White Dwarf is published with the primary intent of promoting GW's products and GW's hobby. The problem lies in their decision to do so by printing pretty much nothing other than endless photographs of the latest kits, accompanied by a few paragraphs of fawning hackwork, whereas once upon a time they did so by writing actually useful, useable content. I've got more use in the last few years out of White Dwarfs from the late 80s/early 90s - mining them for scenarios, tactics and painting guides - than I have from anything the magazine has published under the last four or five editors.

Cambrius
29-01-2013, 18:09
I bought a couple of issues of White Dwarf last year when I started to get back into wargaming/GW etc. I soon stopped bothering to pick it up when I realised there was virtually no content.

Initially I assumed it was probably always like this, and my fond memories of spending hours leafing through copies when I was younger were simply rose-tinted.

However, I had a look through my old copies (mainly from 1989/1990) and the contrast was startling. For one thing there were actually articles back then, usually 6-8 pages long and predominantly text. They're still worth reading now; some of the terrain/vehicle scratch-building projects look awesome, and they don't require you to buy a couple of GW kits to make one smaller model.

Games Workshop always classed White Dwarf as a magazine/catalogue, but somewhere along the way the magazine part seems to have been forgotten. Shame.

duffybear1988
29-01-2013, 19:16
The company hasn't changed, but as you've grown older and more cynical (as we all have), you're more aware of it than a young idealistic person.

Utter rubbish!

Yes the company has changed. In the past decade we have seen GW prices spiral out of control, development and implementation of a substandard product (finecast), the general collapse of support for all specialist games, and a new style of White Dwarf that's the worst it's ever been.

I have grown more cynical - I know that, but saying that the company hasn't changed is a damned lie. Many of the good GW staff jumped ship/were pushed off years ago because their ideas and opinions went against the company's new objective.

Santtu
02-02-2013, 18:13
Good to know I guess, the chance of rules appearing in White Dwarf is the only thing that kept me buying it.

WarsmithFarrus
06-02-2013, 11:00
This makes me sad :( I really wish they would produce rules in it. Especially alternate army lists as they are quite fun. For example the civil war rules for fantasy are pretty fun and they could of done something similar for 40k