PDA

View Full Version : fight in three ranks



the_night_reaper
20-05-2006, 02:55
I played a high elf player the other day and he said high elves fought in three ranks instead of two. I took his word for it, but he also said that they fight in 2 ranks when the charge. I have trouble believing this last one, can anyone confirm this?

Trunks
20-05-2006, 03:25
He is correct.

The rules for spears state that you fight in one less rank (or something to that effect), not "in one rank", when you charge.

So normal spearmen fight in one rank on the charge. High Elves fight in two ranks on the charge. Pikemen fight in three ranks on the charge.

ZomboCom
20-05-2006, 07:05
Yup, what Trunks said.

Commissar Vaughn
20-05-2006, 07:51
actualy that used to be the case but in the DOW down load the rules simply say they fight in 4 ranks when stood still. similarly in the high elf book it says they fight in 3 ranks when stood still. it doesnt say they fight in "1 more rank than normal" or anything like that. this means though they get the extra rank in defence, they still follow the normal rules for spear like wepons which is that they fight in 1 rank on the charge.

i use both regularly in my gaming club and ive argued it backwards and forwards but i still cant get more than one rank on the chrage with anything!

peteratwar
20-05-2006, 08:22
Don't the rules for spearmen charging state they use 1 less rank than usual. Usual for HE is 3 ranks & one less = 2. That is they way I have understood it.

DeathlessDraich
20-05-2006, 08:32
Pg 89
I"In order to use all of its additional ranks as described, a unit must not have moved in that turn. If a unit has moved ... then it fights with one less rank."

Looking at the rules in its entirety, my interpretation is: Spearmen fights with 1 rank when they have moved and has an additional rank when not moving.

For high elves the number of additional ranks increases by 2 and pikemen by 3.
BUT the High elves rule is:

"Fight in 3 ranks: High elves on foot and armed with spears may fight in 3 ranks."
There is no mention of not moving!:eek: So it could be argued that they always fight in 3 ranks.
Most high elf players don't do this, in keeping with their noble ways.:)

maxwell123
20-05-2006, 08:32
High Elf Spearmen work the same as they did in 5th edition - i.e. Fight in two attacks on a turn they move (i.e. when charging) and Three Ranks at other times.

ZomboCom
20-05-2006, 08:55
actualy that used to be the case but in the DOW down load the rules simply say they fight in 4 ranks when stood still. similarly in the high elf book it says they fight in 3 ranks when stood still. it doesnt say they fight in "1 more rank than normal" or anything like that. this means though they get the extra rank in defence, they still follow the normal rules for spear like wepons which is that they fight in 1 rank on the charge.


Nowhere does it say they fight with 3 ranks "when stood still". It just says:

"High elves on foot and armed with spears may fight in 3 ranks."

There is nothing to say that this rule is not in effect when charging. The normal fight-in-one-less-rank-when-charging rule will still apply of course, so they fight in 2 ranks when charging.

ZomboCom
20-05-2006, 08:58
Pg 89
I"In order to use all of its additional ranks as described, a unit must not have moved in that turn. If a unit has moved ... then it fights with one less rank."


You are missing the importance of one word in that quote:

"In order to use all of its additional ranks as described..."

"All" being the important word. High elves don't get to use all their additional ranks when charging, they fight in one less than normal, i.e. 2.

DeathlessDraich
20-05-2006, 09:16
"In order to use all of its additional ranks as described, a unit must not have moved in that turn. If a unit has moved ... then it fights with one less rank."

Well Zombo, I'll go one word further than "All" and include "as described" as being just as important. i.e. 2 ranks were being described in the previous paragraph and not the 3 ranks of high elves or more.

My point is: The rules were specifically referring to 2 ranks of spearmen who are not moving and not referring spearmen with varied numbers of additional fighting ranks.

How that ruled should be extended to the High Elves - I'm not sure to be honest.

Whether high elves can fight in 3 ranks ALL the time or 1 rank less or just 1 rank, when they have moved, is still nebulous because of the high elves rules

"Fight in 3 ranks: High elves on foot and armed with spears may fight in 3 ranks."

2 contradictory rules begs the question: Which is superseded?

Atrahasis
20-05-2006, 10:29
Well Zombo, I'll go one word further than "All" and include "as described" as being just as important. i.e. 2 ranks were being described in the previous paragraph and not the 3 ranks of high elves or more.


2 ranks is given in the rule as an example, not as a rule.

The rule "Fight in X ranks" is very non-specific and means two things:

1. A stationary unit fights in X ranks when engaged to the front.
2. A unit that has moved this turn fights in X-1 ranks when engaged to the front.

DeathlessDraich
20-05-2006, 11:58
I stand corrected - the rules are not specific to 2 ranks.
It does say "second and SUBSEQUENT rank" in the rules and that would be true of pikemen for example who would fight in 4? ranks (if I remember) and (4-1) ranks.

However there is still the problem with the High elves rule which seems to suggest that fighting in 3 ranks, ALL the time, is possible.

Duckass
20-05-2006, 12:47
I think the intention was that they'd fight in three ranks in a situation where a normal spearman would fight in two.

Atrahasis
20-05-2006, 13:29
I think the intention was that they'd fight in three ranks in a situation where a normal spearman would fight in two.

Yup, its just a poor reference to the "fight in ranks" rule.

Tarax
20-05-2006, 21:30
2 ranks is given in the rule as an example, not as a rule.

The rule "Fight in X ranks" is very non-specific and means two things:

1. A stationary unit fights in X ranks when engaged to the front.
2. A unit that has moved this turn fights in X-1 ranks when engaged to the front.

I couldn't agree more.

(just wanted to say that)

Elannion
21-05-2006, 11:31
Actually deathless i think i am correct in saying this isn't the spear rule, and it has been wrongly labled as that. This is the fighting in additional ranks rule and thusly would be applied as they are fighting in additional ranks to high elf spearmen allowing then 2 ranks on charge and 3 when they haven't moved.

DeathlessDraich
21-05-2006, 12:16
Sorry guys, I hate playing devil's advocate.

The High elf rule as written is:
"Fight in 3 ranks: High elves on foot and armed with spears may fight in 3 ranks."

I agree with everyone on what is intended and indeed that is how I have played against high elves.

However I have never interpreted rules on the basis of what I think GW intends - I am not a mind reader after all.

If a high elf player and there's one looking over my shoulder now, wishes to interpret the high elf rules literally as written, I see no reason why the only way out of the dual interpretations is a dice roll.

Elannion: I'm sure you're right in thinking the rule is a misprint but until GW confirms that we can only speculate unfortunately.

Tarax
25-05-2006, 08:28
As always GW has gone too far. They've included the explanation in the rule. Very much like putting fluff into rules, this causes more confusement than clearing things. ('flaming attacks?' anyone? ;) )

Elannion
28-05-2006, 15:51
Elannion: I'm sure you're right in thinking the rule is a misprint but until GW confirms that we can only speculate unfortunately.

Its not a misprint people are refering to it incorrectly which allows people to come up with that interpretation, the rule about allowing one less rank if you have moved comes under the title of 'Fight in Ranks', and since in the high elf rules it says fight in 3 ranks you would refer to the fighting in ranks rules, as they are fighting in ranks.

LucTheVampire
29-05-2006, 01:48
I played a high elf player the other day and he said high elves fought in three ranks instead of two. I took his word for it, but he also said that they fight in 2 ranks when the charge. I have trouble believing this last one, can anyone confirm this?
Its true ^ ^

LucTheVampire
29-05-2006, 01:49
I played a high elf player the other day and he said high elves fought in three ranks instead of two. I took his word for it, but he also said that they fight in 2 ranks when the charge. I have trouble believing this last one, can anyone confirm this?
Its true ^ ^;)

LucTheVampire
29-05-2006, 01:50
I played a high elf player the other day and he said high elves fought in three ranks instead of two. I took his word for it, but he also said that they fight in 2 ranks when the charge. I have trouble believing this last one, can anyone confirm this?
really, Its true ^ ^

T10
29-05-2006, 06:47
Its true ^ ^

Is there a particular reason to why you posted that little gem three times?

-T10

EvC
29-05-2006, 15:08
Some people really need it ramming into their head?

It's very simple. The rules for fighting in ranks say you fight with one less rank when you've moved that turn. The rules for High Elves say you fight in three ranks. Apply logic, get the rules. Simple.

speedygogo
29-05-2006, 16:00
What page is the fights in three ranks rule on in the high elf book?

EvC
29-05-2006, 17:56
7; the rule is quoted directly, and in full, above.

g0ddy
30-05-2006, 22:34
If you feel the need to complain about HE Speamen gettign two ranks on the charge, please remember they are 11 points per model :/

EDIT : its quoted right next to/under the spearmen entry and again with the sea guard entry.

- g0ddy