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View Full Version : Rock Paper Scissors, Thunder Warriors, Space Marines, and pre-uni psyker warlords



La'mour Le Breton
27-01-2013, 13:52
During the unification wars on Terra, the big E, he had to deal with all these crazy psyker warlords, like Nathaniel Dume, and I think there were others, The Ursh, the Nordafrik, and others.

So the Emperor realizes he has to fight all these other uber psykers (lets call them Scissors) so he creates the anti scissors, The Thunder Warriors (lets call them Rock). The Thunder Warriors are resistant to psyker powers, in some way not entirely understood, as evidenced by the HH novel Outcast Dead.

So Rock smashes Scissors

The Emperor must have been a great chess player, cause he's already thinking ten steps ahead, and he knows that soon his rocks will soon be obsolete and decides he needs an anti rock to cull the Thunder Warriors, cause we all know, rock smashes scissors, and the Emperor is... scissors, so he creates The Space Marines! (lets call them paper, I'm sure some will approve lol)

So paper covers rock, for some reason that just seems right...

Now as we know, the Emperor is a great chess player, and he wasn't just thinking two steps ahead, so he knew that at some time, the paper would probably need to be culled, and this brings us back to scissors, unfortunately, the Emperor wasn't going to be around for this, but he knew something we didn't. That Humanity would eventually ascend and evolve into a new psychically gifted race, aka Scissors, and as we've learned scissors cuts the ... through paper

Things didn't really work out as planned (or exactly as planned, maybe the emperor ascending is just him becoming the Uber Scissors deluxe)
Thoughts?

TheDungen
27-01-2013, 14:16
why are space marines weak against psykers?

RedMountainGod
27-01-2013, 14:45
some space marines are scissors......

and the Emperor plays wargames.....rock/paper/scissors is too one dimensional, and he stopped playing chess when half his pieces turned on the other half and killed his king.

Scalebug
27-01-2013, 15:49
Wouldn't say the Thunder Warriors were anti Psykers in particular.

Sure, there are mention of psykers, even outright sorcerers, opposing the emperors unification on Terra, but not in such an ammount that they should be considered the main threat you would have to prepare against.

Their anti psyker thing in The Outcast Dead was, though I will have to go back and re-read it, not really some active defense, just a decent willpower and "different-ness" compared to an unmodified human, or an astartes, which interfered with the Thousand Sons tricks.

BooTMGSG
27-01-2013, 17:27
I think you will find that rock punches through paper.

I was under the impression that Space Marines were simply Thunder Warriors 2.0
The thunder wariors were simply the best the Emperor could do with the time and resources he had pre-unification.

The Thunder warriors were designed to deal with a known enemy.
The Space Marrines were required to deal with unknown enemies that they could encounter in space, so trying them down to be just paper would not work.

Stonerhino
27-01-2013, 20:00
Wouldn't say the Thunder Warriors were anti Psykers in particular.

Sure, there are mention of psykers, even outright sorcerers, opposing the emperors unification on Terra, but not in such an ammount that they should be considered the main threat you would have to prepare against.

Their anti psyker thing in The Outcast Dead was, though I will have to go back and re-read it, not really some active defense, just a decent willpower and "different-ness" compared to an unmodified human, or an astartes, which interfered with the Thousand Sons tricks.Ghotta, tells the Navigator that she can try her third eye because it can't affect him. Then when the "Death Angel" starts killing Ghotta's men Ghotta just stands there blasting away with his bolt pistol.

While not 100% proof it does show that the Thunder Warriors (at least Ghotta) was psy resistant to some degree.

Lord Squidar
27-01-2013, 20:27
Why wouldn't the thunder warriors be anti psyker? Think about it, the big E is down to his last planet (terra) which he needs to take in order to put his plans into place for the great crusade etc etc. The worst possible thing to happen would be for a psyker on terra to go mental, become a gateway for the warp and result in a daemonic invasion that stops all the plans before they start.

To me it would be priority no .1 destroy all the psykers, use might to vanquish and assimilate the other techno barbarians.

underscore
27-01-2013, 23:15
I don't know who plays chess with rocks, paper and scissors but it sounds like a blast to me...

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
28-01-2013, 01:55
So we have rock, paper and scissors. We just need to figure out which were lizard and Spock. I think the Sisters of Silence were lizard, and the Custodes were Spock.

La'mour Le Breton
28-01-2013, 03:08
Its stated in a few sources that many of the other nations that the Emperor goes up against in the unification wars were controlled by the chaos gods in some way, and that in some nations that the "black magic" and psyker powers were the main part of their military force.

" Also, the sorcerous powers of Kalagann mentioned in the Chronicles of Ursh formed the main part of Ursh's military power."

Quote from warhammer wiki

Inquisitor Engel
28-01-2013, 06:26
Its stated in a few sources that many of the other nations that the Emperor goes up against in the unification wars were controlled by the chaos gods in some way, and that in some nations that the "black magic" and psyker powers were the main part of their military force.

Stated or implied? I don't recall anything so obvious. Source?


Quote from warhammer wiki

Not a valid source, at least a book it's from. The Wiki is even worse than Lexicanum for badly paraphrased and ill-sourced (at best) material and fan-fic (at worst).

Stonerhino
28-01-2013, 06:35
Whether or not the Emperor ever fought him is open. Doombreed, is a human Daemon Prince from old Earth.

La'mour Le Breton
28-01-2013, 08:00
Well I remember from reading the HH novels, Sinderman talks of the Chronicles of Ursh multiple times during some of the novels, and there were multiple instances of him mentioning "primordial gods" and cultures ruled by these "gods" and the use of "black magic" I don't remember exactly what he called it in the book, but there's your source

Are the HH novels considered canon? or is it another one of those 40k, "everything your told is a lie" bs
or the whole issue of the facts chaging over time, with fact becoming legend and the truth falling somewhere in between

Scalebug
28-01-2013, 09:33
Are the HH novels considered canon? or is it another one of those 40k, "everything your told is a lie" bs
or the whole issue of the facts chaging over time, with fact becoming legend and the truth falling somewhere in between

No, they are canon alrigth, although I think you (or the people writing the wiki entry, if that was your source) have jumped to conclusions there and put "gods" mentioned = the chaos gods were controlling them. That is a stretch not supported by the material.

Spontaneous psyker activity structured into mysticism and and ritual would be seen as "god activity" by the primitives, withouth any of the big four taking an active part.

La'mour Le Breton
28-01-2013, 11:06
My point was that there was major psychic activity going on during the unification, and that some sort of psychic powers were a major part of some of the forces the emperor had to deal with. If its the big 4? I don't know, I don't think I ever stated that in any of my posts, and that is not the point I was trying to make

I'll say this, its seems to me, from reading the HH novels that its more like the whole war singers and that kinda stuff, primitive maybe ritualized use of the warp or pyskers for military purposes...

On this topic, did they (GW) state who "Samus" was affiliated with yet if anyone?