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View Full Version : BB: Dwarfs - A bit TOO good?



Corax
20-05-2006, 13:23
As a long time BB player (since early 2nd Ed.) the Dwarfs have always been a powerhouse team in league play. The cost of their player, who all begin with at least 1 skill, combined with their 8-9 armour and Thick Skull (making the little sods very hard to bump off) AND some of the cheapest re-rolls in the game, means that they are always going to be strong in the war of attrition that is league play.

While I hesitate to give voice to the whining 'Team-X-is-broken-because-I-can't-beat-it!' voice, and having played in and observed numerous leagues of the the years; I do feel the need to ask whether or not the Dwarfs might be a bit undercosted for their capabilities?

Overall, I think that BB is basically a very well balanced game (over the course of a season), for the most part, but I can't help but feel that in comparision to the rest of the teams the Dwarfs are just that little bit better than the rest. Or, more to the point, that they are a little bit too cheap for what you get, or that you get too much for what you pay. My gripes are twofold:

1. Too many players with AV 9. There is an enormous difference in BB between AV 8 and AV 9, even more so that between 7 and 8. AV 9 is ok for Star Players and a couple of specialists, but its a bit too good on normal linemen. When 14 out of a possible 16 players on the roster can have AV 9, it makes them very hard to hurt.

2. Too many starting skills/traits. The AV 9 alone would not be too much of an issue if it were the only factor. However, the fact that all Dwarfs get Thick Skull as a starting trait (making themeven harder to hurt if you manage to roll over AV 8-9) AND get Block (the most useful skill in the game) makes them all but impossible to knock over. The fact that some of them get Tackle as well just adds insult to injury.

This leads to the question of what to do about it?

My solution would be to adjust the Dwarfs as follows:

Longbeard: MA 4 ST 3 AG 2 AV 8 Skills: Block, Thick Skull
Blitzer: MA 5 ST 3 AG 3 AV 9 Skills: Block, Thick Skull
Runner: MA 6 ST 3 AG 3 AV 8 Skills: Sure Hands ,Thick Skull
Troll Slayer: MA 5 ST 3 AG 2 AV 7 Skills: Block, Dauntless, Thick Skull

By doing this, the Dwarfs would be a little less indestructible, but with minimal changes to their current list. If Dwarf players want Tackle, they can pay for it like everyone else.

So what do people think? Are the dwarfs a bit too good over the course of a league, or am I wrong? I invite your comments on Dwarfs in BB.

Yorkiebar
20-05-2006, 13:52
I disagree. The dwarfs do seem overpowered but it's actually the elven teams that win leagues easily. The dwarfs lack speed and unless they can form a cage around the ball in their first turn after kick-off, they are easily beaten by teams with dodge and leap.

WLBjork
20-05-2006, 15:15
I have to agree with Yorkie.

Whilst they are the strongest early on in a league, they are ultimately no tougher than anyone else.

Thick Skull only potentially stops them being Knocked Out; roll high enough and they still go dead and injured (which really hurts, as my second ever game cost me a Longbeard and a Blitzer causing the team to fold - no way in heck could I replace them).

lonepilgrim
21-05-2006, 15:28
Another call for the Dwarfs not being overpowered. I have just completed a league with 8 teams, playing each other once then playing semi finals and a final. The Dwarfs started out strong (unbeaten in the first three games) and then struggled when the other teams started to accumulate skills. They caused a lot of casualties while taking few in return, but they couldn't score enough touchdowns to win games.

Interestingly, the Elven teams also had a tough time in our league - Undead won it beating Orcs in the final, with Skaven and Humans the beaten semi-finalists.

Skinnydookie
21-05-2006, 16:23
I dont think Dwarves are too powerful but bringing their re-rolls up to 50,00 would be a sensible change in my oppinion- noone else has such cheap re-rolls and they dont need to be as cheap as 40,000.

Aaron
21-05-2006, 16:37
Dwarfs are a pretty easy team to play if you're a novice. They start with good skills and have cheap re-rolls. However, I've never seen them do particularly well at large tournaments since they have a hard time scoring more than a couple of TDs in a game.


Interestingly, the Elven teams also had a tough time in our league - Undead won it beating Orcs in the final, with Skaven and Humans the beaten semi-finalists.

Elven teams are high stakes teams. I find they either manage to avoid injuries and do fantastically well or get a few fatalities early on and struggle for the rest of the season. Once Elves start to pick up skills, they can be incredibly hard to beat.

Odin
21-05-2006, 16:37
Av8 for a Longbeard? That's the same as a High Elf Lineman!

No, I don't thing Dwarfs are too good. They may be tough, but they're also pretty much the slowest team, and have a lot of players with Ag2. It balances out quite well I think.

Autobot HQ
21-05-2006, 17:03
I agree on the whole they are fine (tough gits but fine), although I too think 50K for the Re-roll makes more sense

A-HQ

Keravin
21-05-2006, 17:33
I'm very happy with them as they are :)

Gorgrim
23-05-2006, 16:20
Last League I played in they were one of the bottom teams, mainly because of their slow playing style. Heck, my undead team even ran around them.

Keravin
23-05-2006, 16:26
Yes you can run around Dwarves, but only if you can still run.

Sir Badger
23-05-2006, 19:21
As a long time BB player and manager of teams of most races (could never get interested in undead:angel: ) I have to agree with most that there is nothing wrong with Dwarfs maybe tough but are slow and during a long season tend to wilt

Corax
24-05-2006, 07:32
I'm happy to be proved wrong here. My thoughts were based solely on my own experience in leagues around my local area. Obviously, the consensus seems to be that dwarfs aren't as good as I thought.

A couple of points that I noted were that people said that the dwarfs were the slowest team, but they are actually on a par with Orcs and not much slower than Khemri. Given that M 6 is average across all teams, the dwarfs are below average, but I think they more than make up for it in other ways; such as being exceedingly difficult to knock over and to hurt. While their M may only be 4 or 5, they don't have to spend 3 M on getting up nearly as often as other players.

There was also mention of Elves (of various kinds) being strong, which I find interesting, as they tend to die a lot in the leagues I have played in. Early on in the season, they score easy wins, as they are the most able to move the ball and score touchdowns, but as the war of attrition wears on, they start to suffer because their players are so expensive to replace when (not if) they get killed (or maimed). n most cases, I find that AV 7 is a death sentence for most players unless they're exceedingly elusive (ie. having Block, Dodge, Side Step, and/or Leap).

To be honest, I am quite pleased to hear that people find dwarfs to be ok, because I am about to start a league in which players (the people playing the game) are encouraged to play the less 'powerful' teams. We're going to have Goblins, Amazons, Khemri, High Elves, (probably) Halflings, and the guy who insists on playing dwarfs. I was a little worried that he might unbalance our 'nonsense' league by bringing a 'power' team. But it seems that my fears have been allayed, so thanks to everyone who offered their views.

Bubble Ghost
24-05-2006, 12:04
Having played with both dwarfs and orcs, I can report that orcs are noticably faster as a team. You'll tend to only have two or three players in an orc team with MA 4 - with dwarfs it's half your team. Orcs also have a higher number of MA 6 players (often 3 or 4 blitzers vs. 2 runners), and those players contribute more directly to team's movement because they're usually the ones creating the holes for the ball movers and doing the defending. You also have to take dwarfs' lower AG into account, because you'll be attempting fewer dodges (if you have any sense) and thus the team as a whole will just generally get around less effectively.

Dwarfs definitely aren't overpowered, they just have some unique advantages that make them very awkward to play against if you aren't used to it. Having used Wood Elves I've also found that they're very tricky to manage in a protracted league. I've had by far the most success with my Skaven team - a tackle zone is a tackle zone regardless of the AV of the player, and they're cheap to replace.

XxboxX
26-05-2006, 04:19
This thread makes me really want to play BB,

although i've never played or even seen a game.

Yorkiebar
26-05-2006, 07:45
This thread makes me really want to play BB,

although i've never played or even seen a game.If you download a java applet you can play it online. For full instructions use this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35082).