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Bigman
27-01-2013, 16:07
Thought I would start a new tread being that rumours about this are a bit redundant as its been released now.

Fire away with opinions, thoughts, anything u have noticed.

1. I see from the battle report that you do indeed get eye of the god roles in all challenges where the character itself (not the mount) kills the model...ie champions count in this regard, so you get a role for champions.

2. I'm still not sure whether skullcrushers are toughness 4 or 5 now. Some rumors and a blurry photo said tgh4 / 3 w.

3. I don't think I'll bother with the forsaken as they don't fit my army, but I am interested in the dragon ogres and the big beastie.

4. I'm interested in the new eye of the gods table. Although one of the results from the report is +1 BS....just shows poor planning. How is that useful lol.

Voss
27-01-2013, 16:54
It hasn't been released, though. Otherwise there would be a lot more to talk about, and you wouldn't have to guess about things from poor photos.

Triple King
27-01-2013, 17:14
One thing I noticed on GWs site is that the Warshrine is now listed under Special, rather than rare, and the Chimera seems to be listed on there too.

Nubl0
27-01-2013, 17:20
Yes.. with so many monsters now and expensive troops to fill up core quickly I can see WoC being a unique army in that they can spam so many monsters. Not that it would be effective or anything, but it would be cool for a throgg army leading nothing but monsters and monstrous infantry/beasts.

popisdead
28-01-2013, 16:10
Yes.. with so many monsters now and expensive troops to fill up core quickly I can see WoC being a unique army in that they can spam so many monsters. Not that it would be effective or anything, but it would be cool for a throgg army leading nothing but monsters and monstrous infantry/beasts.

I suspect GW will be brining Fantasy and 40k more in line regarding big kits.

In 40k you can buy an HQ, couple units, tanks, flyer and have an army. For a kid or new player that is really appealing. All those models get to shoot a gun or do something.

I commonly hear "Well in Fantasy you have to paint 100-200 infantry models and most of those are just wound markers." I wouldn't be surprised if GW pushed large kits (which is crazy profit) for Fantasy with only a minimum of core to get more people into it.

pointyteeth
28-01-2013, 16:15
If Kholek is still in the book I will be rocking Kholek, Throgg, 3 Chimera, and 2 shaggoths to the next tourney.

Bigman
28-01-2013, 16:50
I just think they realise that new customers are most attracted to the big models, which make them easy to sell to first timers.

I still haven't picked up skull hunters because I wanted to wait for the book first...a newbie would already own 2 boxes of them.

Saying that, the monster kit is growing one me lol

drathys
28-01-2013, 17:02
Anyone else think that the new models are pretty awful? the forsaken kit is basically just the old warriors with the mutation sprue (which was always pretty bad). The new lord is uninspiring to say the least. throgg is pretty ugly(and not in the way intended). The warshrine just seems kind of odd and over embellished. The new khorne beast looks like a cartoon. the tzeentch version is average i think at best. I am in general a fan of the new large kits, despite the cost but these all leave me a bit cold.
Exceptions to this I think are the dragon ogres and vilitch the changeling, the later being awesome. However overall I am left pretty unimpressed. the saving grace of GW has always been that they make the best minitures hands dwn but i feel that the whole chaos range now looks a bit amateurish. not normally a hater but i may have joined their ranks on this one

MR. GRUMPY
28-01-2013, 17:08
Always the first buyers on warseer.. these kids are of mythical porportions

snottlebocket
28-01-2013, 17:09
Is the chimera a regular list stapel now? Ie. can I take it without storm of magic or a character riding it?

snottlebocket
28-01-2013, 17:16
Anyone else think that the new models are pretty awful? the forsaken kit is basically just the old warriors with the mutation sprue (which was always pretty bad). The new lord is uninspiring to say the least. throgg is pretty ugly(and not in the way intended). The warshrine just seems kind of odd and over embellished. The new khorne beast looks like a cartoon. the tzeentch version is average i think at best. I am in general a fan of the new large kits, despite the cost but these all leave me a bit cold.
Exceptions to this I think are the dragon ogres and vilitch the changeling, the later being awesome. However overall I am left pretty unimpressed. the saving grace of GW has always been that they make the best minitures hands dwn but i feel that the whole chaos range now looks a bit amateurish. not normally a hater but i may have joined their ranks on this one

I don't like most of the models but I think Throgg is such a good sculpt that it doesn't even look like a GW model.

underscore
28-01-2013, 17:38
I actually like the entire release, oddly enough. It's much much better than the last wave.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
28-01-2013, 17:51
The prospect of a low-model count high-monster content army is very appealing to me. It'll be a nice break from every horde army I play in this and other game systems. I find Villitch the Curseling particularly inspiring. I'll probably pick him up just to paint. He'll probably be some endgame boss for my rpg victims... i mean group... to face.

SteveW
28-01-2013, 17:53
I don't like most of the models but I think Throgg is such a good sculpt that it doesn't even look like a GW model.

wow, could you show any more disdain for GW?

snottlebocket
28-01-2013, 18:21
wow, could you show any more disdain for GW?

I can and I have in the past but I was short on time.

Qemist
28-01-2013, 20:52
I love the new releases, the prices however... ;) (I'll buy em anyway, I'll just bitch while I do it.)

Lance Tankmen
28-01-2013, 22:32
i had a 1500 khorne army(no magic) but am trying to sell it, these new models almost make me want to keep my army but ive too many things againest at the same time.

1) new book is 50$? um no thanks
2) lore cards love these as i bought the ones for the BRB but that was 8$ why is it 11$ for less?(i dont use magic is my army any how)
3)that one click launch is exactly that .One click, same cost. damn shame there.
4)that brute and vortex beast seem cool, but for 85$? or i could buy a case to hold my models...?
5)i really really love the dragon ogres but i dont know how they'd size up ingame to a shaggoth as they seem big and their front legs are 3 toed while the shaggoth has t-rex legs for his front 2.
6)i really like the chariot, 40 buck is meh but comes with a lord option too.
7) forsaken no, 50$ is too much when i already have chaos warriors for core.
8)i dont like the new choas lords head at all....
9) throgg looks brutal.... yet no new chaos trolls to go with.
10)im in the boat of i like vilitch but am not a magic fan

drathys
29-01-2013, 11:53
I can and I have in the past but I was short on time.

great comeback, however as much as I love to GW bash, their models are (avatars of war exception as they are IMMENSE) the best and historically no one came near them. But now I feel pretty that the gap has closed significantly as has their market share. Although I went back and to be fair the throgg model is actually pretty great.
also I too am happy that one army doesnt have to be in horde formation. I dont have a problem with the horde thing really only on the over reliance of it. Anywho, ramble over

Algovil
29-01-2013, 12:25
The release is growing somewhat on me.

The Forsaken are not that bad, I kind of like that they look similar to the Chaos Warriors, they fit right in. Since we have to live with the warriors for now.
The monsters look better now after a while getting used to them, especially the Mutalith have some character, the Slaughterbrute is not that great.
I actually quite like the Dragon Ogres, they are simple and effective, not just overly covered with strange details, as many other GW kits nowadays are, in lack of real design. May become a real classic IMO.
The Chariots suffer from a bad paintjob, too bright colours. Like the dragon ogres they are not covered in details which could be a good thing. They look a bit static, but I reserve my judgement until I see them painted in another way.
Throgg is interesting. I must say that the new CADed style with sharp angel (savage orcs anyone?) is not my favorite, but this model really have got character I must say.
The other characters are OK, do not like the NMM style with bright colours, might look better with normal paintjob.

After having another look at the models released a few months ago:

Hellstriders... NO, the poses are bad, not my cup of tea.
Skullcrushers. Well the Juggers do look great, regarding the riders, IMO they are too upright and static, but not a bad kit overall.
Warshrine, like many others this was not what I expected. And the design with the big star is a bit strange. This kit is really growing on me though, I kind of come to like it.

Overall: the WoC range is now great regarding the span of models. Some could have been better designed, and the prices are of course just crazy with the recent rise.

5Pointer
29-01-2013, 12:28
Vilitch is great but that blade on the one shoulder really takes it down a notch or two for me.

SarSgnu
29-01-2013, 12:35
I love the new models, especally the Dragon Ogres! And i have hade a good look throu the sprues and WD, and i think it is missing a few things on the sprues that are in the WD, the great weapon Mace head, the great weapon hammer head and the two hand weapons, the hooked swords. Dont think the mace head is a conversion; 1. Its on the package. 2. It clearly shows the line with you fit it on page nine, pic 5. And i see the head options but only from behind and i dont know that they match the ones in WD but that could be only becuse they are not shown very good. Any one els have some thoughts on this or could corect me? Cheers // SarS


I have also counted the sprues and i get 70pieces not 73 but that could be me and my horrible counting skills. Any one else counted them?

lbecks
29-01-2013, 21:13
I love the new models, especally the Dragon Ogres! And i have hade a good look throu the sprues and WD, and i think it is missing a few things on the sprues that are in the WD, the great weapon Mace head, the great weapon hammer head and the two hand weapons, the hooked swords. Dont think the mace head is a conversion; 1. Its on the package. 2. It clearly shows the line with you fit it on page nine, pic 5. And i see the head options but only from behind and i dont know that they match the ones in WD but that could be only becuse they are not shown very good. Any one els have some thoughts on this or could corect me? Cheers // SarS


I have also counted the sprues and i get 70pieces not 73 but that could be me and my horrible counting skills. Any one else counted them?

They doubled one of the dragon ogre sprues on the website, it's just rotated 180 degrees. They did the same thing with the hellstriders, poor proof viewing I guess. So the unseen 3rd sprue has all the other stuff.

SarSgnu
29-01-2013, 22:45
Weeell now i feel like a retard... All the times i counted the bits on the sprues....

Lord Solar Plexus
30-01-2013, 05:00
Well, that's a huge relief. I dunno, with only 70 pieces per sprue I would have thrown a fit and sworn eternal vengeance.

m1acca1551
30-01-2013, 05:07
Well, that's a huge relief. I dunno, with only 70 pieces per sprue I would have thrown a fit and sworn eternal vengeance.

You still have to read through the army book so still time for that fit and eternal vengeance :P

Lord Solar Plexus
30-01-2013, 06:50
A ray of hope then! :)

SarSgnu
30-01-2013, 12:32
Well i did get to touch the dragon ogres today when a local store was unpacking there shipment, and its all there.. And 70picec per sprue? There are 3 sprues in the box and the have ; 24,23,26 pices on them, that is 73 pieces in total... Anyway did not get to look in the rule book tough.. He was pretty adamant about that...

Lord Solar Plexus
30-01-2013, 13:41
Nah, that must be the Swedish version. :)

How did the DO's feel? Soft and cuddly, showing Khorne's other side, the one that likes to pet furry animals?

Warrior of Chaos
30-01-2013, 13:50
... Soft and cuddly, showing Khorne's other side, the one that likes to pet furry animals?

Nice...if my sig wasn't already full I might steal that one. :)

SarSgnu
30-01-2013, 14:20
Ohyeas soft and cuddly, didnt look like the swedish version, to little viking you know. But they are great sculpts, ppl who are raging on there paintjob or what ever can calm down! :)

snottlebocket
30-01-2013, 16:50
Any idea on how best to arm dragon ogres? Looks like they're keeping the same stats, so ws4, str5, very low iniative from what I remember.

I guess halberds will end up giving you the best of both worlds, high strength while keeping whatever initiative they have. Still, those great weapons look... great visually.

SteveW
30-01-2013, 21:48
If they're on larger basses will they get thunderstomp?

Maskedman5oh4
30-01-2013, 22:08
Did Dogres gain halberds as an option? I thought it was GW or xHW

snottlebocket
31-01-2013, 05:36
According to the GW website halberds are an option, the models have them too. They've got options for additional handweapons, large two handed mauls and polearms / halberds.

The word halberd seems to come up a lot, I've read references to marauders with halberds to but can't confirm.

Jind_Singh
31-01-2013, 06:00
Oh Halberds hey - that would be my weapon of choice if they are base strength 5!

Lord Solar Plexus
31-01-2013, 07:02
Any idea on how best to arm dragon ogres? Looks like they're keeping the same stats, so ws4, str5, very low iniative from what I remember.

I guess halberds will end up giving you the best of both worlds, high strength while keeping whatever initiative they have. Still, those great weapons look... great visually.

Nah, not halberds. I2 is way too low for that. Take I5 Warriors with Halberds and DO's with GW. It's also a question of point cost and game size, so while S6/7 open up new possibilities, having an army chock full of S5 is usually good enough.


If they're on larger basses will they get thunderstomp?

Isn't that just for monsters?

Kalandros
31-01-2013, 08:56
fighting GW-armed opponents with Halberd I2 is usually giving you the advantage (:

Shadow_Steed
31-01-2013, 09:21
Will be getting a chariot for sure. Seems like there is lots of cool bits to use in other sets. Also, the non-horse creature could serve as a spawn or as a Razorgor (for dem dere Beastmen).

Also, dragon ogres are really good. Throgg also. Only thing I am dissapoint with is the forsaken, way to expensive.

Lastly also happy with Chimera being a special choice. Great model.

Voss
31-01-2013, 14:46
According to the GW website halberds are an option, the models have them too. They've got options for additional handweapons, large two handed mauls and polearms / halberds.

The word halberd seems to come up a lot, I've read references to marauders with halberds to but can't confirm.
There are some page pics floating around, no halberds for marauders. options are light armour, shields, great weapons and flails (which look like more than one point each).

The gorebeast chariot has halberds for the crew (both of them) as standard. 7! S5 attacks base, at only slightly more than the old book chariot.
but it is slow. The slowest chariot I've ever seen. On the other hand, it is also the TOUGHEST chariot I have ever seen. Sturdier by far than most monsters.

Forsaken have a crazy per model point cost. With marks they hit or exceed 20 points. Without they don't.
The unit size of 5+ might be useful though, as while they seem a fairly horrible unit to try to rank up and and run at people, they're pretty good anti-flanking units, maybe in a 3x2 formation. With multiple attacks (even if only the front rank) and armor, they're more dangerous and resilient than a block of hounds, even if 6 cost more than 10 hounds will (likely around double and a bit more). And the speed isn't bad.

snottlebocket
31-01-2013, 15:26
There are some page pics floating around, no halberds for marauders. options are light armour, shields, great weapons and flails (which look like more than one point each).

The gorebeast chariot has halberds for the crew (both of them) as standard. 7! S5 attacks base, at only slightly more than the old book chariot.
but it is slow. The slowest chariot I've ever seen. On the other hand, it is also the TOUGHEST chariot I have ever seen. Sturdier by far than most monsters.

Forsaken have a crazy per model point cost. With marks they hit or exceed 20 points. Without they don't.
The unit size of 5+ might be useful though, as while they seem a fairly horrible unit to try to rank up and and run at people, they're pretty good anti-flanking units, maybe in a 3x2 formation. With multiple attacks (even if only the front rank) and armor, they're more dangerous and resilient than a block of hounds, even if 6 cost more than 10 hounds will (likely around double and a bit more). And the speed isn't bad.

I didn't expect forsaken to be cheap. M6 infantry would be very nasty regardless of their stats if you could afford to make large blocks. And forsaken have decent stats to boot.

IcedCrow
31-01-2013, 15:54
Forsaken are around 20 points or so but I think that they are worth it compared to a chaos warrior. M6, random upgrades, chaos-warrior stats; they can be pretty sick. They come in 10 to a box.

I would own 20 of them and run them in units of 15-20 on the flank next to marauder horsemen. You can't ignore them for more than one turn which gives another excellent target on the table to go with chaos knights, the chariots, and the manticore lord (which is usually how I run my warrior army).

RuneGrey
31-01-2013, 16:27
Speaking of manticore lords, it looks like Warriors also get the Storm of Magic manticore at long last. So now you have the option for getting the venom tail and iron hard skin, meaning that the manticore can actually make a few armor saves.

Won't help against cannons still, but a nice boost.

Voss
31-01-2013, 22:18
I didn't expect forsaken to be cheap. M6 infantry would be very nasty regardless of their stats if you could afford to make large blocks. And forsaken have decent stats to boot.

The stats are decent, but the random attacks is bothersome. They are ~125% the cost of warriors, and it really depends what the random special rule turns out to be. I don't dislike them, just that for medium-large blocks the warriors seem preferable. But I'm really intrigued by them as counters for flanking, fliers and possibly wizard/warmachine hunting. They're a bit too expensive for redirecting (hounds are still better at that), but they will eat small flanking units for breakfast, and 3x2 with M6 is very maneuverable. I'll experiment with larger units, on the principle that they can be too dangerous to ignore, yet kind of a waste to target with any really important magic or shooting.

Snake22486
01-02-2013, 05:40
so have i been playing this wrong the entire time? does the hellcannon use the large template or the small template? this new book has got me reading the old one, and now i'm confused for some reason...

Urgat
01-02-2013, 05:59
Mmh, so, I've seen the rules were described in the rumors forum, but they're spread over many pages... coul someone who followed more closely post a resume of the changes? Quid of chosenstars and stuff now? As my main opponent is a WoC player, I ought to at least know what to expect :p I saw that there's a... don't remember, either manticore or chimera in special, is it true?

Snake22486
01-02-2013, 06:05
GW/Khorne Maruaders much more expensive. DP is usable now. Chosen star gone. EOTG only affects single models, not units. in short, the really broken stuff was fixed, and there are tons of new monsters, MC, etc, that I have no idea what the power level will be. seems like the list your opponent fields could be much more varied than it was.

I'm a high elf player who has believed the hellcannon uses the large template for the last 3 years. please confirm to me that it uses the small template so i can look forward to a brighter future and lament my horrible past. =)

P.S. ill give more details of units you desire (not points costs) if you answer me.

edit- yes chimerae. i think it's a special. flyer with breath weapon upgrade. 6 attacks. only 5 leadership though

warplock
01-02-2013, 07:03
Thought I would start a new tread being that rumours about this are a bit redundant as its been released now.

Fire away with opinions, thoughts, anything u have noticed.

1. I see from the battle report that you do indeed get eye of the god roles in all challenges where the character itself (not the mount) kills the model...ie champions count in this regard, so you get a role for champions.

2. I'm still not sure whether skullcrushers are toughness 4 or 5 now. Some rumors and a blurry photo said tgh4 / 3 w.

3. I don't think I'll bother with the forsaken as they don't fit my army, but I am interested in the dragon ogres and the big beastie.

4. I'm interested in the new eye of the gods table. Although one of the results from the report is +1 BS....just shows poor planning. How is that useful lol.

Skullcrushers are indeed T4 now with 3 wounds. Juggers now have 3A and S6 on the charge. They got a points increase but it's worth it, they were insanely undercosted before. Personally I would prefer them to
have stayed T5 with 2 wounds, as it helps to differentiate them from all the other monstrous cav. I mean, they have exactly the same resilience as DGK now, which is a bit 'one size fits all' I think.

I don't see why +1 BS on eye of the gods shows a lack of planning. It's called Evil Eyeball, which is rather funny. Just something instead of a 'does nothing' result.

My biggest annoyance is the Slaughterbrute. It's not bad, although it is VERY squishy (T5 5W 4+AS, it's basically a Carnosaur). It also has the same number of attacks and WS as a Carnosaur... Hmmm! But it can take on the WS of your Lord. My complaint with it is the background and general idea behind it. It's just so bland. It's described as a massive furious brute, which loves destruction. That's about it. Chaos Lords can control it with runes of binding so that it doesn't attack their own troops, and in this way it becomes much more skilled in battle. So why can't they do this to chimeras, manticores etc. Just seems like very uninspired creature design.

Evil Hypnotist
01-02-2013, 08:11
I'm a high elf player who has believed the hellcannon uses the large template for the last 3 years. please confirm to me that it uses the small template so i can look forward to a brighter future and lament my horrible past. =)


It uses the same template as the stone thrower, which is the small one. Shame on your Warriors opponent who has been trying that one, it's good enough as it is! :P

As for the new book and models I was pleasantly surprised to see them this month. After finally managing to look at White Dwarf I have come to the following conclusions:

Chaos Lord - Awesome model, looks much better close up than I thought. Annoyingly though, I have so many Lord models I doubt I would get this one, unless I convert him to be a champion for my Chosen perhaps.

Vilitch - MUCH better than what I expected (considering the great envisioning by Miss Painting Group) this has loads of character and looks badass too. Ordered.

Throgg - Contrary to the views of many I am not a fan of this one. He looks too disproportional for my tastes, I use the Bhurdur model from LOTR and this new model won't usurp him in any fashion.

Dragon Ogres - Completely different to what I was expecting but I like them, they almost would fit alongside the Chaos Giant with their unarmoured heads. Their size will make the Shaggoth look too small though unfortunately and the feet are pretty poor, something similar to Cold One claws would have looked better IMO. Now re-based on 50x75mm I don't think the old models (which I quite like) will look that good on larger bases so my purchase of these will depend on any changes to the rules.

Chariots - At first I didn't like the look of these, I thought the carriage had a hoplite feel to it. But, after having a closer look I think they look pretty good and have plenty of options. The Gorebeast is something completely new too and from the sound of it will be fairly tough, which will probably mean I take them more often. Ordered.

Slaughterbrute - A niche WoC did not need any more things in but an interesting model all the same. I don't like the silly swords sticking out of it's back but hopefully I can just leave them off. Will leave purchase til I see the rules.

Mutalith - Body and head are great, vortex looks impressive but together they look completely stupid. The rules will completely determine if I get one and even then I will probably convert one to look better.

Forsaken - Making them a ranked unit was not a good idea if their rules are anything like 7th. As for the models they remind me of the style of the old warrior models with the cloaks, they don't look like new sculpts to me, just old ones with bits stuck on. I might get some just for conversion bits though.

As for the rumoured rules I was expecting nerfs on the Skullcrushers, EOTG table and Marauders. The question is whether the new units like the Forsaken and Gorechariot, plus the inclusion of the new monsters such as the Chimera and Slaughterbrute will balance these out. Looking forward to getting the book tomorrow and finding out!

myrsnipe
01-02-2013, 08:28
Holy poo, I just realized that the Slaneesh lore isnt penalized by immune to psychology anymore. Undead units may finally enjoy the pleasures of sex, drugs and rock & roll!

In other words, you can now safely use it in an allcomers list. There's two random movment 1d6 spells in there, perfect for ruining your opponents battleplans

Avian
01-02-2013, 08:33
Mmh, so, I've seen the rules were described in the rumors forum, but they're spread over many pages... coul someone who followed more closely post a resume of the changes? Quid of chosenstars and stuff now? As my main opponent is a WoC player, I ought to at least know what to expect :p I saw that there's a... don't remember, either manticore or chimera in special, is it true?
Apart from Marauders (who got more expensive) and a lot of the monstrous stuff (which got cheaper), there isn't that much in the way of change. With Warriors, for example, base cost, weapon costs, command cost AND Mark costs changed, with the total result that my unit got 12 pts more expensive. Wooo....

Characters got better, but more expensive (with the exception of the Daemon Prince, who got much better and much cheaper). Mounts got a LOT better.

Items are a mix. Nothing Łber, but a lot of the cheaper ones are good and you can always use the rulebook ones.

No army wide special rule. As said, EotG is champions and characters. If you want to buff units, it can only be done with spells (which are good).

Double Hellcannon is the only super-high-powered thing left.

Scammel
01-02-2013, 08:36
No army wide special rule.

No Will of Chaos?

Avian
01-02-2013, 08:40
No Will of Chaos.

Lord Commander Eidolon
01-02-2013, 09:21
So warshrines don't affect whole units anymore? seems a bit grim. I like the idea of forsaken yet I have a severe dislike for the models. I'm going to convert beastmen into weregeld(if anyone remembers the weregeld story from hordes of chaos) I love the dragon ogres. Generally I think all the models are okay to good with the exception of dragon ogres and forsaken(amazing/awful) And the book does seem to have good internal balance from what I have seen which is a good thing. Power creep/leap put me off 40k for a long time and both the 8th ed and 6th ed codexes/army books are a step in the right direction. I don't understand all the doomsaying based off of rumour mongering

Avian
01-02-2013, 09:26
Warshrines only affect models with the Eye of the Gods rule, which is characters (not DPs) and champions (not Dragon Ogre ones). The bound spell can give D3 models a roll on the table (effect is now permanent) and everyone within range that rolls on the table rolls three D6, discards one and add the other two to get their result.

The only unit that can get a roll is Chosen with their one pre-battle roll (getting turned into a Spawn or DP only affects the champion).

Lord Commander Eidolon
01-02-2013, 09:30
I suppose thats not so bad. Some of the spells sound good. Hopefully my LGS will have it in later on. This weekend has had a good curve. Job interview and a fantasy army i'm keen on! Lets hope I can keep up my painting mojo

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 09:42
Well, then good luck with the interview! Don't let them turn you into a Spawn! ;)

The bearded one
01-02-2013, 09:43
No Will of Chaos?


No Will of Chaos.

No Will of Chaos!




I'm overjoyed to see marauders with great weapons costed less absurdly cheap. 9 point bi-atch! :D If we compare that cost to the likes of empire, VC and TK infantry, it seems to fit.

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 09:49
Quite so. Now Greatswords or Flagellants don't seem overcosted anymore.

Lord Commander Eidolon
01-02-2013, 09:54
Well, then good luck with the interview! Don't let them turn you into a Spawn! ;)

Cheers Lord Solar Plexus

Asensur
01-02-2013, 09:57
Lol, the Marauder champions (Foot & Mounted) have Eye of the Gods rule.

Now I understand the +1BS result.

Istlod
01-02-2013, 10:21
So, anyone know if there are any fluff changes we should know of?

Scammel
01-02-2013, 10:30
Quite so. Now Greatswords or Flagellants don't seem overcosted anymore.

It's almost as if they're trying to establish some sort of trend... I think it's safe to say that GW have most definitely twigged onto how good cheap infantry are in this edition and are trying to do away with the previous idea of how much these guys 'should' cost.

Urgat
01-02-2013, 10:37
GW/Khorne Maruaders much more expensive. DP is usable now. Chosen star gone. EOTG only affects single models, not units. in short, the really broken stuff was fixed, and there are tons of new monsters, MC, etc, that I have no idea what the power level will be. seems like the list your opponent fields could be much more varied than it was.

I'm a high elf player who has believed the hellcannon uses the large template for the last 3 years. please confirm to me that it uses the small template so i can look forward to a brighter future and lament my horrible past. =)

P.S. ill give more details of units you desire (not points costs) if you answer me.

edit- yes chimerae. i think it's a special. flyer with breath weapon upgrade. 6 attacks. only 5 leadership though


Apart from Marauders (who got more expensive) and a lot of the monstrous stuff (which got cheaper), there isn't that much in the way of change. With Warriors, for example, base cost, weapon costs, command cost AND Mark costs changed, with the total result that my unit got 12 pts more expensive. Wooo....

Characters got better, but more expensive (with the exception of the Daemon Prince, who got much better and much cheaper). Mounts got a LOT better.

Items are a mix. Nothing Łber, but a lot of the cheaper ones are good and you can always use the rulebook ones.

No army wide special rule. As said, EotG is champions and characters. If you want to buff units, it can only be done with spells (which are good).

Double Hellcannon is the only super-high-powered thing left.


Thank you, that's pretty much what i wanted to know :)


(with the exception of the Daemon Prince, who got much better and much cheaper)

Well, hoora, how many editions to finally get a good one? :p


Quite so. Now Greatswords or Flagellants don't seem overcosted anymore.

"rubs hands together" Next, the skaven slaves :p


Lol, the Marauder champions (Foot & Mounted) have Eye of the Gods rule.

Now I understand the +1BS result.

After looking at the rules in rumors, I'd say it's more a 'boo, too bad!" result than anything else. Sure, it can benefit axe throwing marauders if they still have them, but... well... :p

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 11:16
It's almost as if they're trying to establish some sort of trend...

Ha, almost scary, isn't it? :)



"rubs hands together" Next, the skaven slaves :p


About time! ;) Although I wouldn't mind them doing WE first...

Piercefierce
01-02-2013, 11:52
I read the book today and I must admit I am not a fan. I have been playing warriors of chaos since I was 5 years old and this book depressed me. The new monsters suck! particularly the slaughterbrute. The warshrine only affects single models (up to d3 but not units). So why would you ever bother CASTING for that. I sort of wish I could return my warshrine for my money back. Itís honestly that bad now. A marauder of khornne with gw is over priced now...oh well they were too cheap before. The problem I have is that a marauder with gw and no mark is probably still over priced now. The list goes on. I suppose I should give it some more time and let my initial rage calm down but I must admit Iím not too happy. I would also like to comment on how they made almost zero changes to the special characters. Seriously, itís ridiculous how little they changed. Very lame.

Someone please help me enjoy this new book.

p.s. I hate for my first post to be a winge. I always read but never comment and people usually only ever winge. Sorry, I just couldnít contain myself this time.

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 12:09
Yeah, we hate you too and you should perhaps first read the book before jum...okay, just pulling your legs here. ;) There's nothing wrong with not liking stuff. I will not even use the name of that monster. To say that they all suck is however an exaggeration. I mean, perhaps you're even right and they suck on their own against a White Lion horde but what if they are support? Flying WM hunters sound pretty cool. An Imperial Captasus is pretty cool, and while it has armour and perhaps a ward, it only has three wounds at T4...it's all a matter of perspective really.

The same goes for Marauders. Could you explain why 6 points seem overpriced when everyone else pays 6 points for the same effect? Or 11 points for 2 S5 attacks, when others pay 11-12 for single S5 attacks + USR? It's exactly the same price level! I mean, who really can get S5 core? Who can get a whole army of S5 and higher, an army of 1+ - 3+ Sv, a highly mobile one, with flyers and monsters and a good WM, or any combination thereof?

You do not need to take MoK GW Marauders either. If you prefer a horde army, it's still quite possible. What is NOT possible is a horde AND multiple S5 attacks all over the place, and whenever someone tells me that GW destroyed the army he loved...

It is easy to find fault, if one has that disposition. There was once a man who, not being able to find any other fault with his coal, complained that there were too many prehistoric toads in it.

N1AK
01-02-2013, 12:18
fighting GW-armed opponents with Halberd I2 is usually giving you the advantage (:

Personally I don't think it's all that important. Unless you kill enough that it alters the number of attacks they get then going at I2 doesn't provide another benefit. As you'd be hitting simultaneously it won't affect the damage you do. In return being S7 means you can scare the hell out of all cavalry and monstrous cavalry and Lord level characters.

pippin_nl
01-02-2013, 12:42
I read the book today and I must admit I am not a fan. I have been playing warriors of chaos since I was 5 years old and this book depressed me. The new monsters suck! particularly the slaughterbrute. The warshrine only affects single models (up to d3 but not units). So why would you ever bother CASTING for that. I sort of wish I could return my warshrine for my money back. Itís honestly that bad now. A marauder of khornne with gw is over priced now...oh well they were too cheap before. The problem I have is that a marauder with gw and no mark is probably still over priced now. The list goes on. I suppose I should give it some more time and let my initial rage calm down but I must admit Iím not too happy. I would also like to comment on how they made almost zero changes to the special characters. Seriously, itís ridiculous how little they changed. Very lame.

Someone please help me enjoy this new book.

p.s. I hate for my first post to be a winge. I always read but never comment and people usually only ever winge. Sorry, I just couldnít contain myself this time.



18-12-2012, 16:18
pippin_nl
Re: Chaos Warriors Undercosted?


Marauders would be fine at 6 points for HW + SHLD, +2 for Flails, +3 for GW, +1 for the Mark of Slaanesh or Nurgle, +2 for the Mark of Tzeentch or Khorne. Note that they would still be considerably cheaper than what other 8th edition armies can field.

I have not seen the book yet, but if what you are telling is true, they did a fine job on the marauders, they are still very good for their point cost. I did read somewhere that the Mark of Nurgle is now amazing in combat (-1 to hit) and costs only 2 points.

Krish
01-02-2013, 12:45
Well woc 2500 points army list would be like 30 models now. I know some guys prefer it that way, i liked it more when it was an army not a squad. Rising price of chosen ( kitted ) to 23 points per model is well... i could accept that i love models, and all fluff like their being the most elite armored knights in there but 23 points? they at least could get something for that. Gifts are cool magic items except Helm of many eyes are useless. Warshire the same, but hellcannon is great and the demon prince too. Well for me its pause in gaming and more collecting and painting from now on i think :-).

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 12:53
Well woc 2500 points army list would be like 30 models now.

Or 300. Or anything inbetween, depending on what you field. Same as with Empire.

I'm not saying I don't understand you because I felt much the same when the latter book revealed the point increases but in this case, most increases were much more legitimate I feel.

pippin_nl
01-02-2013, 13:03
Or 300. Or anything inbetween, depending on what you field. Same as with Empire.

I'm not saying I don't understand you because I felt much the same when the latter book revealed the point increases but in this case, most increases were much more legitimate I feel.

As I understand even 400 marauders is possible.

logan054
01-02-2013, 13:06
I actually thought hellfire sword was pretty good for the points, slap with helm of many eyes and flaming breathe and you can score a lot of wounds, it's only 15pts more than the ignore armour save weapon but grants flaming and d3 wounds and can cause a extra d6 s4 hits per wound.

I think the daemon prince has stolen The Lord slot, in happy, my fw daemon prince cost enough and will get some use. Whole lot of drama about the book

Krish
01-02-2013, 13:07
I wont say its not ok, if someone likes monster and so on, i simply do not that's why its so much harder. If i wanted beasts i would play beastmen if i wanted demons i would play demons. And 25 - 60 models is max what will bee seen on tournaments with woc :-). Sure i can field horde of marauders with only pants on, but well i cant buff them anymore as others can, and i really loved this black armored cans ranked up. But now ehhh... Only good thing is that we can have really hard lords which is great especially with their background of constant duel ( which they are forced to take ) they should be the best. But some army in the background would be nice :-).


hellfire sword is well FIRE ( 2+ ward for 10 points ) and you kill yourself if you fight with it too much. + 3 str or attacks sword much better and cheaper.

pippin_nl
01-02-2013, 13:14
I wont say its not ok, if someone likes monster and so on, i simply do not that's why its so much harder. If i wanted beasts i would play beastmen if i wanted demons i would play demons. And 25 - 60 models is max what will bee seen on tournaments with woc :-). Sure i can field horde of marauders with only pants on, but well i cant buff them anymore as others can, and i really loved this black armored cans ranked up. But now ehhh... Only good thing is that we can have really hard lords which is great especially with their background of constant duel ( which they are forced to take ) they should be the best. But some army in the background would be nice :-).


hellfire sword is well FIRE ( 2+ ward for 10 points ) and you kill yourself if you fight with it too much. + 3 str or attacks sword much better and cheaper.

As I understand it Warriors did not become worse and Forsaken became much better.

Avian
01-02-2013, 13:23
Forsaken are a bit better since they get a random special rule (5 out of 6 are good) and chaos armour for a minimal points increase, can purchase Marks, and they are Core.

Warriors are essentially unchanged. Some builds are a bit better/cheaper (Nurgle + shield) while others are a bit more expensive (Slaanesh + halberds), but not by much.

Baluc
01-02-2013, 13:41
With warriors its all about how many you take. <18 units got cheaper >18 units cost more. My two units of 18 warriors halberds, MofK used to cost 366, now they cost 372, if I drop mofk, which I'm really thinking of doing now that I can hit on 2's with enchanted blades. My costs are 336, and 336. Interesting, no?

Unmarked warriors are a legitimate option now, seriously not having to rely on my warriors to do all the heavy lifting is amazing. All WofC really need was some more viable and interesting support units, and basically everything in the book is not capable of being a support unit. 5+ core forsaken, core chariots, 3+ cheap trolls, 3+ cheap ogres, chimera, etc.

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 13:43
As I understand even 400 marauders is possible.

Probably, I just thought I'd add a Hellcannon, L4 and BSB. :)


I wont say its not ok, if someone likes monster and so on, i simply do not that's why its so much harder. If i wanted beasts i would play beastmen if i wanted demons i would play demons. And 25 - 60 models is max what will bee seen on tournaments with woc :-).


That makes no sense. If I wanted to play horde, I would play OnG...you can do a lot of different builds with WoC. I don't think I've ever had more than 60 models in my army anyways. 25 would a huge relief from State Troops.



Sure i can field horde of marauders with only pants on, but well i cant buff them anymore as others can, and i really loved this black armored cans ranked up. But now ehhh...


No eehhh. 40 Halberdiers, FC and a buff wagon cost ~400 points. 40 Marauders, FC with some mark cost ~400 points. How are the latter not buffed? How's a buff that doesn't go away not good enough or not a buff? Please don't say you're sad because it is an upgrade instead of a buff...?

CW themselves should easily rank up like before. Of course I can say this with more conviction than others since I could never be bothered to follow conventional internet wisdom and buy or convert extra Halberds (and no sane person fields I5 models with GW). Yes, it will be more expensive points-wise, no doubt, and yes, that WILL suck. I fully remember how it sucked when Empire came around and everyone one the whole freaking internet rejoiced. Like, it's just one single point, which of course it wasn't (more like 300). However, in my experience one gets over it - and with some reshuffling, it won't be so visible anyways.

Poseidal
01-02-2013, 13:45
Apart from Marauders (who got more expensive) and a lot of the monstrous stuff (which got cheaper), there isn't that much in the way of change. With Warriors, for example, base cost, weapon costs, command cost AND Mark costs changed, with the total result that my unit got 12 pts more expensive. Wooo....

Characters got better, but more expensive (with the exception of the Daemon Prince, who got much better and much cheaper). Mounts got a LOT better.

Items are a mix. Nothing Łber, but a lot of the cheaper ones are good and you can always use the rulebook ones.

No army wide special rule. As said, EotG is champions and characters. If you want to buff units, it can only be done with spells (which are good).

Double Hellcannon is the only super-high-powered thing left.

Hellcannon still being powerful is sort of a relief, as I was fearing it might have gone the way of the Empire Mortar.

In terms of characters becoming better, but more expensive, is it the combat characters get even higher stats or is Eye of the Gods better so they get better due to that? I found Chaos Lords rather expensive in the current book, but they are getting even stronger and more expensive?

Odiriuss
01-02-2013, 13:52
I wont say its not ok, if someone likes monster and so on, i simply do not that's why its so much harder. If i wanted beasts i would play beastmen if i wanted demons i would play demons. And 25 - 60 models is max what will bee seen on tournaments with woc :-). Sure i can field horde of marauders with only pants on, but well i cant buff them anymore as others can, and i really loved this black armored cans ranked up. But now ehhh... Only good thing is that we can have really hard lords which is great especially with their background of constant duel ( which they are forced to take ) they should be the best. But some army in the background would be nice :-).


hellfire sword is well FIRE ( 2+ ward for 10 points ) and you kill yourself if you fight with it too much. + 3 str or attacks sword much better and cheaper.

Only one char can have that ward,and you can have the soulfeeder gift along with a 3+ ward and reroll 1,i will probably have that sword in my list... :)

Odiriuss
01-02-2013, 13:54
Hellcannon still being powerful is sort of a relief, as I was fearing it might have gone the way of the Empire Mortar.

In terms of characters becoming better, but more expensive, is it the combat characters get even higher stats or is Eye of the Gods better so they get better due to that? I found Chaos Lords rather expensive in the current book, but they are getting even stronger and more expensive?

As i got it only lvl 1 sorc got more expensive,other stayed the same or got cheaper and better like the DP....

TsukeFox
01-02-2013, 13:57
Yes.. with so many monsters now and expensive troops to fill up core quickly I can see WoC being a unique army in that they can spam so many monsters. Not that it would be effective or anything, but it would be cool for a throgg army leading nothing but monsters and monstrous infantry/beasts.

So they are going to be Tomb Kings but better combat troops , better magic, better characters, better MC, & better monsters all around ?

Esh.

At least equipment will cost an arm & leg

Scammel
01-02-2013, 14:04
At least equipment will cost an arm & leg

Or the army will just be more expensive across the board, because you pay more for better stuff. Very little in the already expensive book is getting a significant reduction in points, from what I can discern.

MR. GRUMPY
01-02-2013, 14:28
Or the army will just be more expensive across the board, because you pay more for better stuff. Very little in the already expensive book is getting a significant reduction in points, from what I can discern.

Most of the previously overcosted stuff like the DP and dragon ogres got cheaper and the silly marauders got a well-deserved point hike? Thats what Ive got out of it so far.

Tuttivillus
01-02-2013, 14:34
I mean, who really can get S5 core? Who can get a whole army of S5 and higher, an army of 1+ - 3+ Sv, a highly mobile one, with flyers and monsters and a good WM, or any combination thereof?


Eeerrmmm, Empire? or was it a trick question? ;)

Lord Solar Plexus
01-02-2013, 14:51
Eeerrmmm, Empire? or was it a trick question? ;)

See, he's got his father's eyes! ;)

Yep, quite true. They can get single attack S5 core for double the price. Mobility and armour aside, when you can get four S5 attacks for the price of one AND ranks on top, that should be a reason to rejoice.

The salient point was that it's rather unusual, and when it is possible it is always in conjunction with a lower model count.

TheRaven
01-02-2013, 15:13
I just did some counting and if I did it right, Warriors of Chaos now have over 20 non-lord/hero entries in their army book. That puts them at the most of any army except maybe orcs/goblins for options.

Even though I’m not a fan of the new style or new models, those that are should be pretty pleased with the books current state. Some armies have around half of the options. Let’s hope this is a sign of things to come. 

Havock
01-02-2013, 15:34
Anyone else thinks the lore of Tzeentch seems to not-cut it? Lore of metal is great though, looking forward to glittering-robed warriors :p

Lore of Slaanesh looks great.

Sabre DeC
01-02-2013, 15:46
I agree about the Tzeentch lore. At least with the Warpflame rule. I'm not a big fan of possibly buffing my opponents against my own spells (as the spells are NOT flaming....WarpFLAME? Really? Not flaming? Sigh)

Leth Shyish'phak
01-02-2013, 16:06
Is the Helm of Many Eyes counted as magic armour now? Seems like it would be since it apparently gives +1 armour save now. I've always hated having to choose between it and the stubborn hat.

Havock
01-02-2013, 16:07
Yeah well thankfully we get metal, which is awesome for us as we can
1- knock down heavily armored opponents a peg or two (1+ saves still suck with S5 Halberds)
2- give our 3+ or 4+ armor save warriors somethign better
3- give the middle finger to our opponent by having their troops flailing limp-wristedly at our high-stat warriors with leaden swords.

Urgat
01-02-2013, 16:27
I agree about the Tzeentch lore. At least with the Warpflame rule. I'm not a big fan of possibly buffing my opponents against my own spells (as the spells are NOT flaming....WarpFLAME? Really? Not flaming? Sigh)

They forgot to say the tzeentch spells are flaming? Again?
So, are we going to have arguments about them not being flaming when obviously they are, until GW releases a FAQ and states the obvious... again? Like, for the third time or something?

Icarus81
01-02-2013, 16:29
I agree about the Tzeentch lore. At least with the Warpflame rule. I'm not a big fan of possibly buffing my opponents against my own spells (as the spells are NOT flaming....WarpFLAME? Really? Not flaming? Sigh)

Its really a non-issue. Just don't keep casting on units that passed the test. Otherwise the lore will decimate small flanking units with the weaker spells and the bigger ones like bolt are too good to worry about whether or not you'll give them regen.

If you run into issues you can use your tzeentch spawn flaming breath weapon, or the chimera flaming breath weapon, or flaming banner, or daemonic gift.

It also doesn't matter if you give regen to a model with a ward.

MR. GRUMPY
01-02-2013, 16:43
Can some kind soul post all the lores?

Avian
01-02-2013, 17:04
I was wondering why the Daemon Prince has BS5, but then I remembered that if a Marauder Horseman champion ascends, he gets to keep his throwing spears or throwing axes. Raaah! S7 axe to the skull from 6" away. :D

mostlyharmless
01-02-2013, 17:16
I was wondering why the Daemon Prince has BS5, but then I remembered that if a Marauder Horseman champion ascends, he gets to keep his throwing spears or throwing axes. Raaah! S7 axe to the skull from 6" away. :D

Wow . . . holy crap . . . that's amazing. Now I need to model a daemon prince with a bandoleer of throwing axes.

ivan55599
01-02-2013, 17:32
I was wondering why the Daemon Prince has BS5, but then I remembered that if a Marauder Horseman champion ascends, he gets to keep his throwing spears or throwing axes. Raaah! S7 axe to the skull from 6" away. :D

Will there be anything left of that skull? :V
Crumbled skull for the Skull Throne...

Havock
01-02-2013, 17:40
I was wondering why the Daemon Prince has BS5, but then I remembered that if a Marauder Horseman champion ascends, he gets to keep his throwing spears or throwing axes. Raaah! S7 axe to the skull from 6" away. :D

"stand and shoot."

pointyteeth
01-02-2013, 18:23
I was wondering why the Daemon Prince has BS5, but then I remembered that if a Marauder Horseman champion ascends, he gets to keep his throwing spears or throwing axes. Raaah! S7 axe to the skull from 6" away. :D

I want that so bad! Skull fragments for the Skull God!

Urgat
01-02-2013, 18:27
He keeps his throwing axes? Oh yeah, I can totally see it, the terrible demon prince picking delicately an axe between two fingers and throwing the ridiculously small (comparatively) weapon in a gentleman-like gesture. Hop!

pointyteeth
01-02-2013, 18:31
He keeps his throwing axes? Oh yeah, I can totally see it, the terrible demon prince picking delicately an axe between two fingers and throwing the ridiculously small (comparatively) weapon in a gentleman-like gesture. Hop!

Maybe this is why Chaos weapons are so oversized? You never know when you might "POOF" into a Daemon Prince.

Doommasters
01-02-2013, 20:52
He keeps his throwing axes? Oh yeah, I can totally see it, the terrible demon prince picking delicately an axe between two fingers and throwing the ridiculously small (comparatively) weapon in a gentleman-like gesture. Hop!

As his bodey expands and grows tearing the axe flings from his body impalling a random nearby model......or not so random nearby model.

Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs?
01-02-2013, 21:31
Can some kind soul post all the lores?

From COTEC:

LORE OF SLANESH

[0] 6+: 24" direct line, each model under the line takes a S3 penetrating hit

[1] 6+, Hex, 24": ASL and random movement (d6). Extended at 48" for 9+

[2] 7+, 24" direct damage a single model. Test of Ld on 3d6 or suffer a single wound if failed. Or 48", 10+

[3] 8+ Hex or Buff. Remains in play, 24", Frenzy (or +1 attacks if already is frenzied) that isn't lost if beat in combat, but the target suffers d6 S3 hits at every magic phase of caster

[4] 10+ 24" d6 S4 hits armor piercing. Target must pass a Ld test or suffer another d6 hits, and so on until a succesful test is made

[5] 10+ Hex, until next magic phase target may roll an additional d6 when checking Ld and discard the lowest. at 20+ is a bubble spell that targets all friends within 24"

[6] 12+ hex, 12" range, 2d6 hits that wounds on 4+ with no saves. If a wound is caused, unit gets ASL and casual movement (d6) until next magic phase. Bubble spell at all enemies within 12" at 24+ cast.
----------------------------------------
Lore of Nurgle:

Lore attribute: bloated with disease: roll a dice after successfully casting a spell and resolving its effects. on a 6 the caster gains 1W and 1T for the rest of the game.

sig spell: stream of corruption, 7+, direct damage, teardrop template touching base of caster all models under it must pass toughness test or take a wound with no armour saves allowed.

1: miasma of pestilence, 5+, augment, all enemy units in base contact with the target unit reduce their WS and I by 1. can boost it to reduce by d3.

2: blades of putrefaction, 8+, augment, target unit gets poisoned attacks (in CC). if target already has poisoned attacks their chance to poison is increased to 5+.

3: curse of the leper, 10+, augment OR hex, friend = increases T by d3 till casters next magic phase, hex = reduces T by d3 for same duration.

4: rancid visitations, 10+, magic missile, d6 str 5 hits, then the target must immediately pass a T test or suffer another d6 str 5 hits. Target must keep taking T tests until he passes or is removed as casualty, taking d6 str 5 hits every failure.

5: fleshy abundance, 11+, augment, target unit gets regeneration 5+. if they already have regen it is increased by +1 to a max of 2+.

6: plague wind, 15+, magical vortex, remains in play, small template, once placed noominate a direction, roll artillery dice and multiply by casters wizard level, if you roll a misfire center it on the caster and roll scatter dice. template moves inches = to wizard level. hit is a hit. any model touched by the template must pass a toughness test or suffer a wound with no armour saves allowed. future turns = moves artillery dice number of inches, misfire = dissipates. can boost for large template.

----------------------------------------

Blue Fire of Tzeentch (sig spell) cast on 5+, d6 str d6 hits with warpflame rule.

1: treason of tzeentch hex, cast 7+, unit must use lowest LD in the unit and cannot use IP or HYG

2: pink fire of tzeentch, DD, 8+, teardrop that moves towards target, models touched take str=d6 hits

3: bolt of change, magic missile, 8+, str=d6+4 hit with multiple wounds d3 and warpflame. penetrates ranks like a bolt thrower, no armour saves allowed.

4: glean magic, 8+ direct damage, targets a wizard within xx" caster and the target roll off and add wizard levels to score. if you win then the enemy suffers a str 3 hit with warpflame rule, loses a wizard level and forgets a random spell. you then gain that spell and its lore attribute when you cast it. if you lose the roll nothing happens.

5: tzeentches firestorm, 13+ direct damage. small template that scatters, everything hit suffers str=d6 hit with warpflame. can make it bigger, scatters more.

6: infernal gateway, 16+. as the old one but if you roll 11 or 12 for str it does 3d6 str 10 hits instead of 2d6.

warpflame = any unit that suffers a wound from a spell with this rule takes a T test. if it fails it takes d3 wounds, if it passes it gains regen 6+ for the rest of the game. if they already have regen it gains +1 to its regen.

The tzeentch lore attribute is you get a power dice for each 6 rolled when casting spells. only the wiz that got em can use em.




edit: If I'm not allowed to repost this (it wasn't taken down before) let me know and my apologies.

RuneGrey
01-02-2013, 21:55
Lore of Slaanesh lets you roll a d6 per unsaved wound caused, and on a 6 casters WS, I, and A increases by 1 until the start of the next magic phase.

Will make Slaanesh sorcerers kinda scary. Will make magic using demon princes *really* scary as it ramps up the number of attacks they can cause. Charge in, lay down lash on another unit, or 6 dice Cacophonic Choir. Watch the number of attacks you have skyrocket. The fact that your enemies will have ASL and random movement doesn't hurt either.

And if you explode, at least you're doing it in the face of an enemy unit.

Voss
01-02-2013, 22:22
I'm leaning a bit towards Nurgle for daemon princes, or even sorcerers in general. Miasma of pestilence is _nasty_ when facing Nurgle marked units with a high WS. With WS 3 opponents, the base form is all that is necessary, but even WS4 drops to 2 reliably with the augmented version. And that means they're rolling for 6s against the target unit. Layer a toughness buff or regen as well... and just... wow.


The tzeentch lore attribute as written in that post is terrible. If you're lucky, you get 1 die. If you're unlucky, you miscast and get 2 (or more) dice -d6 dice + some negative effect or the inability to cast any more that turn. Unless you roll 4 or more 6s, you are very unlikely to come out ahead.

Primal Exile
01-02-2013, 22:42
Any news on Archaon? Has he changed at all?

MR. GRUMPY
01-02-2013, 23:24
edit: If I'm not allowed to repost this (it wasn't taken down before) let me know and my apologies.

Thanks, you are a star!

I am a bit torn here. Nurgle looks pretty ok, but derpderp what is the teardrop template refering to? o.o If its the flame template that signature looks sweet.

m1acca1551
01-02-2013, 23:43
I'm really liking what im seeing here!!

Nurgle and slannesh are looking to be much tougher this time around!!

pointyteeth
02-02-2013, 00:21
I'm really liking what im seeing here!!

Nurgle and slannesh are looking to be much tougher this time around!!

Amen! Tzeentch had its time in the sun, time for someone else to get a tan.

Voss
02-02-2013, 00:50
Thanks, you are a star!

I am a bit torn here. Nurgle looks pretty ok, but derpderp what is the teardrop template refering to? o.o If its the flame template that signature looks sweet.
From page 9 of the main rules

A flame template (a teardrop-shaped template roughly 8" long).
So, yeah. Murderous template action. The only downside is the range, and it can not be used on enemy units engaged in close combat.
Curious what Nurgle sorcerers have for mount options :skull:

Yeesh. The wait is officially getting to me. I will be so pleased when the iBooks version finally unlocks in a few hours. I am excited for this book!

RuneGrey
02-02-2013, 00:57
Also loving it that Nurgle also gets its own version of Purple Sun of Xereus - won't instakill monsters, but it can be unleashed to ravage swarms of grunts. Gets even worse if you've debuffed an important unit with Curse of the Leper.

It's also worth noting that Nurgle has a spell that reduces initiative... AND have the option of taking Lore of Death to boot? Have a level 2 use Miasma and then have your level 4 unleash Purple Sun. Cackle like a madman.

Voss
02-02-2013, 01:08
I have a feeling people will complain about the lore of nurgle. Heavy debuffs, major buffs and synergistic murdering capability (curse of the leper interacts well with all three attack spells).

Anyone thinking about the lore attribute and soulfeeder? It isn't a direct relationship, but regaining wounds and slowly increasing T & W over the course of the game is just nasty. Especially with the buff version of curse. I want a t-shirt that says 'Toughness 10: Nurgle rules and elves drool'.

Nubl0
02-02-2013, 01:14
Well after reading through the book I must say, not very impressed with any of the new stuff other than the gorebeast chariot. That said Ill still pick up a mutalith as the chance of rolling dwellers lite is quite an awesome prospect. The slaughterbrute might be salvageable as a flanking beast, but seems a little expensive for that. Hellcannon is still ace and the chimera looks... interesting. Never liked maruaders much anyway so not bothered about the nerfs and the forsaken look interesting as chaff hunters.

MR. GRUMPY
02-02-2013, 01:20
From page 9 of the main rules
.
So, yeah. Murderous template action. The only downside is the range, and it can not be used on enemy units engaged in close combat.
Curious what Nurgle sorcerers have for mount options :skull:

I do not want to face new chaos with my high elves suddenly.

/hides

Leth Shyish'phak
02-02-2013, 15:54
Any news on Archaon? Has he changed at all?

He has, he's a little cheaper now and his rules have changed in a few ways. Instead of the old four god-specific benefits he now just has all four marks (so, frenzy, +1 ward save, re-roll 1's to channel, -1 to hit him in combat, immune to panic+fear+terror) and still gets to join any unit he wants (sadly his MoN no longer effects his unit :( ). The Swords of Chaos now cost points to upgrade, but they get Hatred + ItP and can't be marked (although they lose the old thing they had where only Archaon could join them). And lastly, he's no longer forced to use the Lore of Tzeentch, and can now take Tzeentch, Fire, Metal, Shadow or Death. Oh, and he can be taken on foot now (although if you do so his armour save is only 2+).

The Satyr
02-02-2013, 19:30
What about his items?

Voss
02-02-2013, 19:39
What about his items?
Look largely the same to me.
Sword: no armour saves, can unleash for 2x attacks, but 1s hit archaon or a model in his unit (controller chooses), and unleashed lasts for the rest of the battle

armour: 3+ save, only wounded on 3+, even if attack auto-wounds

crown: terror and 12" reroll failed break tests

eye: 4+ ward save, (made 3++ by marks)

Halbeard
02-02-2013, 20:07
Yes.. with so many monsters now and expensive troops to fill up core quickly I can see WoC being a unique army in that they can spam so many monsters. Not that it would be effective or anything, but it would be cool for a throgg army leading nothing but monsters and monstrous infantry/beasts.

What about Beastmen? Isn't this really what beastmen should be al about?

Avian
02-02-2013, 20:12
Well, traditionally, the core of the Beastmen / Warrior armies have been different while the Special / Rare sections have been more varied. That's just as much the case now as it was eight years ago (or sixteen, for that matter).

Voss
02-02-2013, 20:20
What about Beastmen? Isn't this really what beastmen should be al about?
Beastmen are all about... beastmen. And related subspecies like minotaurs and to some extent, the monsters of the forest. The Woc monsters are more chaotic things from the Wastes, or should be, barring the shaggoth (because Dragon Ogres have their own special backstory and relationship with the Dark Gods). The giant is something of an unfortunate holdover, but the Chimera and Manticore have always been described as rather chaotic monsters.

Leth Shyish'phak
02-02-2013, 20:30
on or a model in his unit (controller chooses), and unleashed lasts for the rest of the battle

armour: 3+ save, only wounded on 3+, even if attack auto-wounds



He now actually counts as having a shield though, so still a 2+ armour on foot and 1+ when mounted.

Voss
02-02-2013, 20:48
True. I was just summarizing the magic items.

Von Wibble
02-02-2013, 20:51
In general, I' have to say the power level looks good from first impressions. A definite nerf on the things (ab)used before, but lots of options and nothing screams out at me as being completely useless (well, see below ;) )

Finally they have worked out that lances are worse than enscorcelled weapons and points costed appropriately. The Jugger riders have a sensible points tag (far too cheap in the WD). The Chosenstar looks to be all but extinct. OK, lore of nurgle looks very powerful (esp. curse of the leper) but has a highly situational signature spell to help make up for it. You can actually get bonuses from EOTG for killing champions. And Gateway has been toned down, and Titillating Delusions removed. Its all good.

Pretty much every problem that opponents of chaos had with the previous book has gone.

For those using the book however, Trolls, Ogres, Daemon Princes and Dragon Ogres all look very useable.

The only criticisms I have are that

1) EOTG is nowhere near chaotic enough - needs to be D66 and bring back things like Cosmic Duel
2) Spawn just aren't crazy enough. I'd like them to have more randmo profiles and frequent rolls on EOTG. Artwork of the Spawn is great though!
3) I am concerned that Forsaken may become the go to unit for core as they are really not much more than a warrior for what you get. Way to sell the new kit I suppose.
4) They still can't write rules for decent magic weapons. At least gifts will help with that.

Halbeard
02-02-2013, 21:53
Is the new Forsaken kit made so you can use it to convert Chaos warriors? Or do we have to use the modelsaw and greenstuff?

Halbeard
02-02-2013, 21:59
Beastmen are all about... beastmen. And related subspecies like minotaurs and to some extent, the monsters of the forest. The Woc monsters are more chaotic things from the Wastes, or should be, barring the shaggoth (because Dragon Ogres have their own special backstory and relationship with the Dark Gods). The giant is something of an unfortunate holdover, but the Chimera and Manticore have always been described as rather chaotic monsters.

I know, I meant that if you like the aestetics of a trollarmy you probably go for Beastmenarmy. I aslo wonder if you stil can choose specialunit from Beastmen book and Daemon book. As I know one could back in the 6th edition?

Voss
02-02-2013, 22:13
I know, I meant that if you like the aestetics of a trollarmy you probably go for Beastmenarmy. I aslo wonder if you stil can choose specialunit from Beastmen book and Daemon book. As I know one could back in the 6th edition?

The beast army is very different from the troll army, largely because having beastmen isn't avoidable.

And no, you can't take units from other books. That was a trait of the Hordes of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos books, both of which are long gone.

Leth Shyish'phak
02-02-2013, 23:12
True. I was just summarizing the magic items.

Just thought it was worth pointing out, since previously his special armour always included the shield, when I first read it I thought his save was worse now. :)

newlor
03-02-2013, 07:56
Is Archaon Frenzy because of mark of khorne?

Doommasters
03-02-2013, 08:04
Is Archaon Frenzy because of mark of khorne?

Interesting he only has 5 attacks and a regular chaos lord has five if he does it looks like you would add an extra attack.

Leth Shyish'phak
03-02-2013, 13:17
Is Archaon Frenzy because of mark of khorne?

Yes, that's what the mark of Khorne does...