PDA

View Full Version : Death from the Skies II (Now with content!)



Pages : [1] 2 3

MajorWesJanson
30-01-2013, 09:55
The other thread got closed just a tad too soon.
Thanks to Loraziel over at Dakka, we now have a picture:

163001

Every piece of new art, I am convinced that the problem of the Storm Talon is not the Oversized turret, but the wings, which add unnecessary angles and give the illusion that it can use them to fly, instead of pure thrust and grav plating.

Compendium is a good sign. It solves the problem of WD rules content if they pull it together in a compendium after a period of time.

Archibald_TK
30-01-2013, 10:45
I assume one of the updates they'll do will be to remove Deep Strike from all of the old flyers. I also expect they'll reword the Doomscythe's Death Ray rule to remove any question about how it works with the new casualty removal rules from 6th Ed.

theJ
30-01-2013, 10:54
I'd say the "problem" with the Stormtalon is that people insist on thinking of it as a plane, when it's obviously based on a chopper. Once you start thinking of it as such, it actually looks pretty dang incredible.
Ultimately, I blame poor ruleswriting - who in the name of Khorne thought it'd be a good idea to use standard flyer rules for that thing? Had it been limited to hover-mode only, it'd help a lot with its "feel", as it would no longer be "swooshing" back and forth. Fluffwriters deciding it's supposed to keep up with Thunderhawks sure didn't help, either.

Alas, that is neither here nor now. It'll be interesting to see just what is in this thing. If the whispers about flyers being brought down to a more reasonable level are true, I might be convinced to pick one up...
More realistically, I'm expecting little more than a cut-&-paste effort, with past WD articles, Crusade of Fire, and possibly a new scenario or two. Still... one can always hope.

Cacodemon
30-01-2013, 11:20
I would bet that it doesn't change any rules on units with a codex entry. So Stormtalon for every Space Marine chapter is feasible, more radical changes... I think not.

Radium
30-01-2013, 11:26
more radical changes... I think not.

I have to agree. Would be a really, really sweet move on GW's side if they did change the rules this time around.

totgeboren
30-01-2013, 12:07
I have to agree. Would be a really, really sweet move on GW's side if they did change the rules this time around.

A 'compilation' tend to be a collection of previously available stuff, though the old Chapter Approved books (which were compilations too) did contain new rules, like rules for chaos cultists which were not published before, and erratas to codexes (I think the Mark of Tzeentch was fundamentally changed back in the 2000 publication).

What GW did 13 years ago might have little impact on today, but we can hope for new flyer rules, or at the very least changed profiles for the most broken flyers around.

Rogue Star
30-01-2013, 12:28
Every piece of new art,

That isn't new. That was the art for the Stormtalon's Codex page, in the digital SM Codex and WD.

I question how real it is, as it would be very easy to knock together...

Starchild
30-01-2013, 12:32
If GW changes anything with this new compendium, then we may get some closure on why the Nephilim is point-costed and designed the way it is.

But I really wanted GW to stay away from the TSR / Wizards of the Coast tendency to make a sourcebook for every little tangent in their rules. Oh well, I suppose that was too much to ask. :eyebrows:

Forgeworld has taken over the GW asylum. :angel:

Sythica
30-01-2013, 12:38
Forgeworld has taken over the GW asylum. :angel:

I would be willing to bet that this supposed book will be no where near the quality standard that FW has currently set. This will be like every other GW publication: overpriced for the number of pages, and full of typos (yeah, FW has typos, too).

Daigar
30-01-2013, 13:07
A compendium of part of one WD, part of one campaign book and a few errata articles? The page count will be atrocious!

WokeUpDead
30-01-2013, 13:35
"Blue Lego bricks in the skies"

well.. count me exited. not.
I really try to have interest in WHFB and WH40K, used to love it in the late 90s. but this.. *yawn*

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
30-01-2013, 13:35
If it is actually a compilation of WD stuff, we may get the rules of the Sisters included. We may.

totgeboren
30-01-2013, 13:43
If it is actually a compilation of WD stuff, we may get the rules of the Sisters included. We may.

And that would really be 'off-topic'! An SoB armylist in a flyer compendium would be a bit like the Kroot getting a new armylist in the next SoB codex. :p

alextroy
30-01-2013, 13:47
We should be so lucky, but I don't exactly see Sisters of Battle as Death from the Skies.

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
30-01-2013, 13:54
And that would really be 'off-topic'!
Well, it depends if it's a generic compendium named after one of it's most notable element, or if it is really only about flyers. Do they have enough stuff about flyers to fill a whole book ?

Edit : @alextroy, if Celestine + Seraphim is not death from the sky (with fire !), I wonder what is ;).

Mandragola
30-01-2013, 14:21
Interesting that there's a bat wing in the top left corner of the shot. That looks very much like it could belong to a harpy, and that would go some way to suggest that earlier rumours we've heard are accurate.

Commissar Merces
30-01-2013, 14:37
If Crusade of Fire is any measure of GW latest efforts to have "add ons" this book will be a gigantic failure.

Simply based on how poor crusade of fire was, this is a PASS from me unless...

1. It's basically an errata for all flyers so we have to buy it
2. It has sisters of battle
3. Someone else buys it first and tells me there are less than 15 typos. Somehow I doubt this will be the most likely one.

And even then I still feel a bit chafed from their Crusade of Fire book. I really lost respect for the label.

EDIT: If there is a new model for the harpy with improved rules to go along with it, I may look into it.

Commandojimbob
30-01-2013, 15:00
All the rumours now converge and point to there being a Flyer wave Feb/March time so for me this compendium will offer :

Rules to the new flyers released Feb / Mar 2013
Rules to the new flyers released last year
CoF expanded rules
A number of scenarios

As much as I would like the older fast skimmers / now flyers to be updated, I dont think they will - I hope so and it would make great business sense by GW but I just dont think they will do this.

Krucifus
30-01-2013, 15:03
I really don't see what they could put in this thing... 3 pages of giant WD pictures/a small paragraph of fluff then 1 page of rules for each flyer?

At first glance the cover looks thrown together enough to be fake, but then remember the Crusade of Fire cover looked just as hashed with old artwork too so it could well be real. Still feels a weird time for it to come out though, piggybacking on the Daemons release for both systems?

Overall I still wouldn't put any money on this.

Chrysalis
30-01-2013, 15:09
And still nothing for Eldar apparently. It's a pity for an army of grav tanks & grav bikes! Looks like GW is missing another opportunity to update (at least for sme units) old-old Codex: Eldar. Some rules for grav tanks would have been nice.

But I'm not really surprised about that to tell the truth...

Fable
30-01-2013, 15:33
All the rumours now converge and point to there being a Flyer wave Feb/March time so for me this compendium will offer :

Rules to the new flyers released Feb / Mar 2013
Rules to the new flyers released last year
CoF expanded rules
A number of scenarios

As much as I would like the older fast skimmers / now flyers to be updated, I dont think they will - I hope so and it would make great business sense by GW but I just dont think they will do this.

I warned everyone the rumor reverb would cause them all to merge, just check the locked thread.

Theocracity
30-01-2013, 17:25
I really don't see what they could put in this thing... 3 pages of giant WD pictures/a small paragraph of fluff then 1 page of rules for each flyer?
.

They could also republish the quite excellent Dogfighting rules from CoF in a non-limited release book. That'd be quite appreciated.

Sami
30-01-2013, 20:05
And still nothing for Eldar apparently. It's a pity for an army of grav tanks & grav bikes! Looks like GW is missing another opportunity to update (at least for sme units) old-old Codex: Eldar. Some rules for grav tanks would have been nice.

But I'm not really surprised about that to tell the truth...

It's almost as if there's a new codex on the horizon. Besides, providing you play with an enlightened group FW has you covered. The Nightwing is a phenomenal flyer which is almost impossible to shoot down should it choose to evade.

Dark Primus
30-01-2013, 20:24
Are those flyers for the February month or month of Mars?

Chrysalis
30-01-2013, 20:31
It's almost as if there's a new codex on the horizon. Besides, providing you play with an enlightened group FW has you covered. The Nightwing is a phenomenal flyer which is almost impossible to shoot down should it choose to evade.

Of course, you are right! But to my mind, GW is missing an incredible opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: first, they would make £££ because right now Eldar players would buy this book even if there were only a couple of pages for them, and they would still buy the codex once it's out. Then, since we would have no model for this flyer, players could buy the DE one to make a custom CWE flyer (more ££) and probably still buy the official model once it's out. And finally, it would give Eldar players a bone to chew since the codex is only rumored and even if it turns to be true, we won't get those rules before 6+ months... However, we don't know exactly what's the content of this flyers book.

Dwane Diblie
30-01-2013, 20:44
I don't think there is such a small amount of content to not create this book. Lets see what we have and assume that each entry gets atleast a page of fluff and an aditional page for each race and a colour page for each race.

Vendetta
Valkury
Stormraven
Storm Talon
Dark Talon
Nephalem
Dark Eldar Fightre
Dark Eldar Bomber
Heldrake
Deamon Prince
GD Khorne
GD Tzeentch
Flyrant
Harpy
Some other Tyranid I can not think of
Ork Fighta
Ork Bomba
Ork Flyer no3

That's pages 36 (18 entrys, 9 armies, 9 colour pages) at the very minimum. Throw in the stuff from Crusades of Fire and you have this small booklet that was originaly roumered. And, they did say it was a skinny book.

I also would love to see the armies that are missing their flyers to get some love, but as this is a compendium and not an expantion I seriously doubt it unless they release the rules in WD at the exact same time for those missing flyers.

Chrysalis
30-01-2013, 20:46
I also would love to see the armies that are missing their flyers to get some love, but as this is a compendium and not an expantion I seriously doubt it unless they release the rules in WD at the exact same time for those missing flyers.

Eldar can always dream: the falcon, serpent and vyper could have alternate rules as flyers! ;)

nosebiter
30-01-2013, 20:53
Soooo a compedium to fix the broken flyers and collect the rules for the wd flyers.

and why isnt this free with WD?

nosebiter
30-01-2013, 20:53
Eldar can always dream: the falcon, serpent and vyper could have alternate rules as flyers! ;)

Yeah, but if they follow the FW flying "tank" rules, they can only fly for one turn and do nothing else.

Baaltor
30-01-2013, 21:05
We should be so lucky, but I don't exactly see Sisters of Battle as Death from the Skies.

Hey, it's not as crazy as having rules for daemons in the Daemonhunters book like 3rd ed.


I really don't see what they could put in this thing... 3 pages of giant WD pictures/a small paragraph of fluff then 1 page of rules for each flyer?

At first glance the cover looks thrown together enough to be fake, but then remember the Crusade of Fire cover looked just as hashed with old artwork too so it could well be real..

Don't get me started on that book's cover... or the book from which the cover was taken; which also had a reused cover. I like how they increased the "Quality" of the books, and copped out on the art budget.


Soooo a compedium to fix the broken flyers and collect the rules for the wd flyers.

and why isnt this free with WD?

Why isn't it just free? I thought the rules were a vehicle (no pun intended) to sell models.


I don't think there is such a small amount of content to not create this book. Lets see what we have and assume that each entry gets atleast a page of fluff and an aditional page for each race and a colour page for each race.

Vendetta
Valkury
Stormraven
Storm Talon
Dark Talon
Nephalem
Dark Eldar Fightre
Dark Eldar Bomber
Heldrake
Deamon Prince
GD Khorne
GD Tzeentch
Flyrant
Harpy
Some other Tyranid I can not think of
Ork Fighta
Ork Bomba
Ork Flyer no3

That's pages 36 (18 entrys, 9 armies, 9 colour pages) at the very minimum. Throw in the stuff from Crusades of Fire and you have this small booklet that was originaly roumered. And, they did say it was a skinny book.

I also would love to see the armies that are missing their flyers to get some love, but as this is a compendium and not an expantion I seriously doubt it unless they release the rules in WD at the exact same time for those missing flyers.

Agreed, there's enough content to warrant a book. I'm a relentless critic of everything in my life, but I don't think an absence of content is a fair complaint.

nosebiter
30-01-2013, 21:22
I would be really anoyed if i was a imperial guard, necron, deldar or another player whose flyer might end up with altered rules/points AND i had to buy another book to use my army. That is like gw adding a tax to use ones units.

Aryllon
30-01-2013, 21:26
Er... that just looks like a really bad photoshop...

loveless
30-01-2013, 22:39
Er... that just looks like a really bad photoshop...

It's one of the things GW does well - bad photoshop.

M'ichal
31-01-2013, 00:46
It's one of the things GW does well - bad photoshop.

? I'd disagree, but whatever.

ehlijen
31-01-2013, 00:51
I would be really anoyed if i was a imperial guard, necron, deldar or another player whose flyer might end up with altered rules/points AND i had to buy another book to use my army. That is like gw adding a tax to use ones units.

An, if the rumours are right, online only book on top of that :(

But I still prefer having the rules redone to match the new core rules and balance, then GW just leaving them as the undercosted nightmares they are right now. I have a Vendetta (spacebus, made from a valk body and a storm raven front hull), but I can't use it because I'd feel like I'm cheating on my friends by doing so...

Flogger
31-01-2013, 01:06
I would be really anoyed if i was a imperial guard, necron, deldar or another player whose flyer might end up with altered rules/points AND i had to buy another book to use my army. That is like gw adding a tax to use ones units.

It'd be fantastic if they balanced the vendetta, night scythe and storm raven with the other flyers out there. I wouldn't mind buying another book for that, especially if it was filled with new flyers as well :)

dangerboyjim
31-01-2013, 01:07
Er... that just looks like a really bad photoshop...

It really does.

Not saying that the book isn't coming, but I'll be amazed if it looks like this.

Azazyll
31-01-2013, 03:59
Hey, it's not as crazy as having rules for daemons in the Daemonhunters book like 3rd ed..

Um, no. Daemons in a book about hunting daemons with intensive use of other codices built into the rules, versus two things that have nothing to do with each other.

Don't encourage the SoB players. You'll just get their hopes up.

Also, fr what it's worth, if this doesn't come with at least two new models, what's the point? Rules sell models.

lordreaven448
31-01-2013, 04:29
We should be so lucky, but I don't exactly see Sisters of Battle as Death from the Skies.
Well, they are death from the skies if they are being pushed out of a Plane:shifty:

Lord Squidar
31-01-2013, 07:13
What do you think the chances are of all imperialist marine factions getting the Stormtalon and Stormraven? BT and SW are missing a flier completely and I though from design interviews they've had before they want all armies to partake in all aspects of the game as a rule, across all systems.

EpicWarGamer
31-01-2013, 07:17
163001


Sorry, but the pic seems fake. I am trying to make sense of where the pic originated. If it was photo, where is the sheen common to GW? Feels like 'leaked 6th'...

Plus someone that posts a photo perfectly from above, avoids sheen, and crops it is wrong IMHO.

Also I increased the image size in paint, and the letters are perfectly aligned, not likely in a photo.

The picture is small, which allows a blur that makes the photo look real.

The Warhammer 40000 logo is not centered on the page, its way off - to the right. Compendium is not centered under Warhammer, its 2 pixels off.

Where is the spine?

prowla
31-01-2013, 07:17
We should be so lucky, but I don't exactly see Sisters of Battle as Death from the Skies.

After seeing the DA flyer, I'm wondering how many candles, torches and statues they could fit on a flying model :D

Bartali
31-01-2013, 08:20
No mention in the Feb White Dwarf either says it's not happening, or at best, it's a digital download for WD flier rules with a direct only pamphlet for those that don't have a iPad.

BramGaunt
31-01-2013, 08:20
163001


Sorry, but the pic seems fake. I am trying to make sense of where the pic originated. If it was photo, where is the sheen common to GW? Feels like 'leaked 6th'...

Plus someone that posts a photo perfectly from above, avoids sheen, and crops it is wrong IMHO.

Also I increased the image size in paint, and the letters are perfectly aligned, not likely in a photo.

The picture is small, which allows a blur that makes the photo look real.

The Warhammer 40000 logo is not centered on the page, its way off - to the right. Compendium is not centered under Warhammer, its 2 pixels off.

Where is the spine?

So someone actually manages to use his cameraphone properly and people go "Illuminaty conspiracy" on his behind, has it come to this? Has it occurred to you that the edges were cut of, because the photographer didn't feel the need to include his/her table on the picture?

Dryaktylus
31-01-2013, 08:41
Sorry, but the pic seems fake.

Hum... I guess you're right. There're some faults, like badly arranged letters and the missile fire before and after the D. The window in the A is too dark (maybe taken from the DA cover) and R and K too wide.

Well, we'll see.

Denny
31-01-2013, 09:22
Sorry, but the pic seems fake.

. . . I think you're right. There's no way a vehicle shaped like that could really fly, and an object going at that speed would be blurrier.

I donít think this is a really spaceship at all. :eek:

. . . Wait, what did you mean by 'fake?'

Danny76
31-01-2013, 10:44
163001


Sorry, but the pic seems fake. I am trying to make sense of where the pic originated. If it was photo, where is the sheen common to GW? Feels like 'leaked 6th'...

Plus someone that posts a photo perfectly from above, avoids sheen, and crops it is wrong IMHO.

Also I increased the image size in paint, and the letters are perfectly aligned, not likely in a photo.

The picture is small, which allows a blur that makes the photo look real.

The Warhammer 40000 logo is not centered on the page, its way off - to the right. Compendium is not centered under Warhammer, its 2 pixels off.

Where is the spine?

The graphical around the 40k logo and each other bit on top of the art blurs into the picture, it's too pixelated around just those points, you'd only get that on the main picture when created, not when taking a photo of it.
GW don't leave large pixelated blurs on any of their stuff.

Some of your points don't count if this was a scan or original piece rather than a photo of the physical item in hand etc.
but all the inconsistencies with the production itself that you mention. GW aren't that sloppy.
So definitely inclined to agree it could be fake

Necrontyr
31-01-2013, 14:00
It's totally shopped. I can tell by the pixels.

Lath-rael
31-01-2013, 14:03
It looks like compendium: Flyer trolls for all seasons, part III - Winter!

Summer
Autumn
Winter

Was there also a spring one?

Spiney Norman
31-01-2013, 14:20
It looks like compendium: Flyer trolls for all seasons, part III - Winter!

Summer
Autumn
Winter

Was there also a spring one?

That's exactly it, its going to be a collection of all the warseer rumours about a flyer release over the last 2 years with a massive "LOL" from GW at the bottom of each page.

But really the jokes on them because it will have already been sent to the printers so this thread will not be in there. Another triumph for Warseer!

Archibald_TK
31-01-2013, 15:55
But really the jokes on them because it will have already been sent to the printers so this thread will not be in there. Another triumph for Warseer!
If you think so I can't wait to see your face when that thread will appear as extra downloadable content on the Apple Store for 9.90$.

Marshal
31-01-2013, 17:29
Thinking about it, purely speculation, it might not just contain the rules for flyers, but maybe also ways of dealing with the flyers for armies.

Chrysalis
31-01-2013, 17:32
Thinking about it, purely speculation, it might not just contain the rules for flyers, but maybe also ways of dealing with the flyers for armies.

Maybe there could be options for AA missiles for all missiles launchers in all armies, but that wouldn't be fun at all... I can barely imagine something else, since official GW models are missing for AA tanks/units...

stevegill
31-01-2013, 17:49
After seeing the DA flyer, I'm wondering how many candles, torches and statues they could fit on a flying model :D

If it doesn't have at least 20 candles it won't be worth flying :)

Chrysalis
31-01-2013, 17:53
If it doesn't have at least 20 candles it won't be worth flying :)

Like a candle in the wind

Sorry, this one was obvious....

AngryAngel
31-01-2013, 18:24
So are we looking at this being legit or troll food ?

Lath-rael
31-01-2013, 18:30
If you think so I can't wait to see your face when that thread will appear as extra downloadable content on the Apple Store for 9.90$.

I will eat my hat if it's the cover of the book (if there's such book).

Here's the origin of that pic i think...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ObyDY-Q2Ejc/UMutwCzLmzI/AAAAAAAACz8/efT-KRKgEe0/s1600/hobbit-trolls630-jpg_045907.jpg

Danny76
01-02-2013, 00:00
I will eat my hat if it's the cover of the book (if there's such book).

Here's the origin of that pic i think...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ObyDY-Q2Ejc/UMutwCzLmzI/AAAAAAAACz8/efT-KRKgEe0/s1600/hobbit-trolls630-jpg_045907.jpg

The Hobbit is the origin, odd..

shaso_iceborn
01-02-2013, 00:06
The Hobbit is the origin, odd..

He meant the trolling.

That being said, my sources said they did playtest new rules for some of the fliers mentioned and some new rules should be coming soon. So this could be legit although I would not bank on it. I am trying to find out more.

Iceborn.

Dryaktylus
01-02-2013, 00:31
He meant the trolling.

That being said, my sources said they did playtest new rules for some of the fliers mentioned and some new rules should be coming soon. So this could be legit although I would not bank on it. I am trying to find out more.

Iceborn.

Yes, something like a compendium would make sense. New rules would be also appreciated. And if new rules are published, it wouldn't be only english.

But for me the source of the cover is, well...
163126

The Dude
01-02-2013, 00:33
Can we stop the "jokes" about the source fo the cover? If you want to compete posting pictures of "trolls" take it to Facebook or something.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

EpicWarGamer
01-02-2013, 01:23
It's totally shopped. I can tell by the pixels.

Without looking at the pic with a zoom, the "Compendium" is clearly not centered beneath the 40k Logo. Anyone can clearly see the C is jutted out farther than the M. GW book cover designers should not make such a simple mistake.

The Dude
01-02-2013, 02:07
Without looking at the pic with a zoom, the "Compendium" is clearly not centered beneath the 40k Logo. Anyone can clearly see the C is jutted out farther than the M. GW book cover designers should not make such a simple mistake.

That's not true though. Allowing for the pixilisation due to the small file size, the titles all line up quite well:

163133

EDIT: Just to clarify, the reason the 40K logo looks off centre and therefore compendium not centred under it, is because the left side of the 40K logo has a lighter bevel than the right. Combined with the extreme pixilisation of the small image, the light edge is running into the background.

As to the question of where the spine is, well I'd say it's in pretty much the same place as any other book GW shows a front cover image of (hint: this doesn't need to be an image of the actual physical book ;))

Cabalistic
01-02-2013, 05:57
So, Faeit has more Details.

I just gotta vent.

This is one **** piece of product.

Azzy
01-02-2013, 06:30
So, Faeit has more Details.

I just gotta vent.

This is one **** piece of product.
So, you make that judgement after reading Faeit? I would too, given that Faeit has a flawless track record....

Yeah, I couldn't keep a straight face.

Sounds more like recycled rumor reverb with a couple new spins.

totgeboren
01-02-2013, 10:31
Since no one seems to want to post a copypasta or a link, I guess I'll do it.

Link (http://natfka.blogspot.se/2013/01/its-official-death-from-skies-details.html#more)


OK readers, its now official. I have the information for what will be in Death from the Skies and of course I am sharing all of it that I am allowed to. Here are the details.

No longer a rumor. Even I had concerns the image above was photoshop'd, but it is the real cover. There are no flyer releases listed out from what I have seen. Hopefully next month?

I also wonder which version of the Stormraven codex Space Marines and Black Templar will be able to use.

Death From the Skies (Direct only – Range item) 60040199031
sale through Direct on Saturday 16th February (no advanced order)
•A 72p full colour, softback, Warhammer 40,000 Compendium
•Contains a fantastic showcase of flyers available to collectors,
beautifully painted by the ‘Eavy Metal team
•Contains all the updated 6th Edition rules for the following Flyers:
- Stormraven (that can now be used in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Black Templars)
and Stormtalon Gunship
- Valkyrie and Vendetta
- Ork Dakka Jet, Burna Bommer and Blitza Bommer
- Necron Night Scythe and Doom Scythe
- Dark Eldar Razorwing and Void Raven

•Includes the rules for the Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship and Ork
Bommer previously available in WD
•Contains cool new content – new scenarios as well as the Dog-fighting
rules from Crusade of Fire
•This compendium will be promoted on the web and by the blog
•English language only
•Please note: This product will go out of stock for short periods if
demand is high

Darnok
01-02-2013, 10:38
Many thanks to totgeboren.

I really wonder about the contents though. So changed codex entries for DE, Necron and IG flyers, meaning you can't legally use them without this book - which is DO, limited availability? And if it makes the WD rules available - which you can't get anymore, except for 'bay WD sales and extreme luck in some gamestores - why is it available in a limited way? Should a compendium like this not be made available as a standard? Because as soon as this sells out - and it will, no doubts - we are back to "and where can I get the rules for XYZ?", with added "oh great, my codex entry is not legal anymore... :wtf:".

Seems like a "great" way to alienate the customers even further...

eldargal
01-02-2013, 10:43
I don't read that as limited availability in the sense of limited edition, I think he means the initial print run may be quite small so it could go out of stock while they print more. A reaonable enough precaution if they aren't sure how the first compendium in, what, a decade or more, will sell.

Personally I'm looking forward to it, if it is indeed real. As with all rumours best to assume it won't happen 'til it is up on the GW website. But I look forward to seeing what they do with the DE flyers. Give the Razorwing Vector Dancer and the Voidraven Strafing Run perhaps.

Darnok
01-02-2013, 10:47
I don't read that as limited availability in the sense of limited edition, I think he means the initial print run may be quite small so it could go out of stock while they print more. A reaonable enough precaution if they aren't sure how the first compendium in, what, a decade or more, will sell.

Ah, so I misunderstood. Sounds quite reasonable then.

What still bugs me is the "you need your codex AND this book to legally field your flier" for some armies... but I guess I'll wait for details.

stahly
01-02-2013, 10:47
I imagine "updated for 6th edition" simply means they incorporated the amendments and errata from the FAQs, can't imagine them to change point costs or the like.

Ronin_eX
01-02-2013, 10:49
It is just direct-only, not limited edition. They are probably doing small print runs and so it is simply noted that it may be out of stock for a bit.

What I'm really wondering is if the unit entries are just errata compilations for 6E or whether they actually change the units to fit 6E. If it's the former then I'll be a little disappointed, but if it's the latter then I'm glad they're being proactive and not waiting for the codex cycle to grind out the bumps caused by outdated codices. I really, really hope it's the latter. Seeing an end to "well just ally to IG for anti-air" will be a godsend. It may even bring things to parity and stop the bitching about the Nephelim. But I should probably not get my hopes up too much. It really could go either way until we have more concrete info.

And if they do end up doing real updates, I hope they add them in to the FAQ for free (and simply use the Compendium as an amalgamation of the updates rather than the only source).

In the end they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, though. If they update the units to balance them inside the framework of 6E, then players will bitch about the nerfs. If they don't actually update them, then people waiting for the flyers to be fixed will bitch about that. It will be painful either way, but at least with an update the game, itself, comes out better for the change; even if it pisses some players off. No matter how they do it, they will **** someone off, so may as well do the one with a net positive effect for the game.

EpicWarGamer
01-02-2013, 11:08
That's not true though. Allowing for the pixilisation due to the small file size, the titles all line up quite well:

163133

EDIT: Just to clarify, the reason the 40K logo looks off centre and therefore compendium not centred under it, is because the left side of the 40K logo has a lighter bevel than the right. Combined with the extreme pixilisation of the small image, the light edge is running into the background.

As to the question of where the spine is, well I'd say it's in pretty much the same place as any other book GW shows a front cover image of (hint: this doesn't need to be an image of the actual physical book ;))

Well, I was trying to debunk a photo, which I am still totally convinced it is not a photograph of a book cover. The perfection of your lines (and I see your excellent point on the logo) assists me in that theory.

It could be a purposefully leaked minimized original, and purposefully small so that no one could have an original piece of GW art...

Gingerwerewolf
01-02-2013, 11:10
It is just direct-only, not limited edition. They are probably doing small print runs and so it is simply noted that it may be out of stock for a bit.

Id say thats absolutely spot on. Just compare this to the way the Black Library does it - Multiple Smaller Print Runs as needed


What I'm really wondering is if the unit entries are just errata compilations for 6E or whether they actually change the units to fit 6E. If it's the former then I'll be a little disappointed, but if it's the latter then I'm glad they're being proactive and not waiting for the codex cycle to grind out the bumps caused by outdated codices. I really, really hope it's the latter. Seeing an end to "well just ally to IG for anti-air" will be a godsend. It may even bring things to parity and stop the bitching about the Nephelim. But I should probably not get my hopes up too much. It really could go either way until we have more concrete info.

And if they do end up doing real updates, I hope they add them in to the FAQ for free (and simply use the Compendium as an amalgamation of the updates rather than the only source).

I think that they will have to, but they have to put something in there so that you have a reason to buy the book. If they are reprinting the Crusade of Fire rules (which feels a bit stupid to me, but what do I know) then there is nothing in the book that's new. Why will people buy it?


In the end they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, though. If they update the units to balance them inside the framework of 6E, then players will bitch about the nerfs. If they don't actually update them, then people waiting for the flyers to be fixed will bitch about that. It will be painful either way, but at least with an update the game, itself, comes out better for the change; even if it pisses some players off. No matter how they do it, they will **** someone off, so may as well do the one with a net positive effect for the game.

Thats always the way with GW - No matter what they do, the Fanbois, and thus the Internet, and thus Warseer - will moan. My only worry is that they will bring out this book with the final rules, and then a week later bring out an FAQ to cover the mistakes in it :P

Also, will this be the first supplement thats legal at Tournaments? The Doubles weekend last week was awesome but flooded with fliers. Lots of Valks, Ravens and an absolute horde of Helldrakes. A supplement to play means that 120 Teams of 2 will buy it...

Thomson
01-02-2013, 11:12
In the end they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, though. If they update the units to balance them inside the framework of 6E, then players will bitch about the nerfs. If they don't actually update them, then people waiting for the flyers to be fixed will bitch about that. It will be painful either way, but at least with an update the game, itself, comes out better for the change; even if it pisses some players off. No matter how they do it, they will **** someone off, so may as well do the one with a net positive effect for the game.

I don't think that a lot of people will complain when there are balanced reasonable nerfs to the flyers. The Vendetta is still good with AV 11 max, and it is still usuable with AV 10 all around. It definitely should loose scout and deepstrike, since there is no reason why it has it compared to other flyers. And yes, the lascannons should be nerfed to 24'' range. Then the 130 pts would be ok I think. However, if they then up the cost to 180 pts I will have to leave them on the shelf. Which would be sad, but Vendettas aren't mandatory. And as it was said several times on the interwebz, Vendettas don't make or break the game.

However, if they only change the Vendetta, the temptation to field Grey Knight allies with a Storm Raven becomes really huge :D

P.S.: And I haven't seen anyone claiming the Vendetta is balanced for a long long time. It is not the game breaker as so many people claim, but currently it is simply to cheap or to powerful.

CrownAxe
01-02-2013, 11:14
What I want to know is if this book will officially replace the preexisting rule for the flyers if it will be optional because of how limited the release is.

Flogger
01-02-2013, 11:23
No HARPY!!?? :(

stevegill
01-02-2013, 11:38
What I want to know is if this book will officially replace the preexisting rule for the flyers if it will be optional because of how limited the release is.

Except the rumoured release isn't limited other than by language

CrownAxe
01-02-2013, 11:43
Except the rumoured release isn't limited other than by language

Direct order and english only seems pretty limited to me, especially for an official rules update

Spiney Norman
01-02-2013, 11:51
I don't think that a lot of people will complain when there are balanced reasonable nerfs to the flyers. The Vendetta is still good with AV 11 max, and it is still usuable with AV 10 all around. It definitely should loose scout and deepstrike, since there is no reason why it has it compared to other flyers. And yes, the lascannons should be nerfed to 24'' range. Then the 130 pts would be ok I think. However, if they then up the cost to 180 pts I will have to leave them on the shelf. Which would be sad, but Vendettas aren't mandatory. And as it was said several times on the interwebz, Vendettas don't make or break the game.

However, if they only change the Vendetta, the temptation to field Grey Knight allies with a Storm Raven becomes really huge :D

P.S.: And I haven't seen anyone claiming the Vendetta is balanced for a long long time. It is not the game breaker as so many people claim, but currently it is simply to cheap or to powerful.

I agree that the Vendetta is not game-breaking, but it does need to be made less of a no-brainer anti-air tool for every army that can ally with Guard. The only really game-breaking flyer at the moment is the bale-drake and I seriously doubt they are going to hit that with the nerf stick so soon after its release, and given that it is a 6E flyer it is obviously properly balanced to take into account the 6E rules [/sarcam]. If the Vendetta and Storm raven get a point knocked off their armour facings then they will be pretty well in line with the rest of the games flyers, a slight point hike as well will make them about right.

On the other hand I am not expecting them to change the rules at all, just pack together a stack of photos we've already seen, maybe some artwork we've already seen, the rules for flyers from WD, the dogfighting rules from CoF and that scramble scenario that was in white dwarf when they released the scythe and storm talon. I can't really see that they could actually change rules and/or stats for the flyers and only put them in a (presumably at least) £25 book, when the accepted method for publishing revisions in the past has been through freely downloadable FAQs.

duffybear1988
01-02-2013, 13:14
40k Planetstrike 2 anyone?

Necr0n
01-02-2013, 13:52
I don't mean to whine,but, isn't it bad policy if GW publices a book, that you have to pay EXTRA to your stupid 40euro costing hardback just to be able to play the rules? (Not to mention the 60+ euro RuleBook)

Not to mention how stupid it sounds to people playing having spent 400+ euro to buy flyer armies that might get nerfed to the ground. (Go ahead and buy your new book, to nerf your whole army!)

I hardly think rules will change. I mean, it would only make sense! The flyers are selling way too well, for GW to nerf them! Scythes must be the most sold model!

Daigar
01-02-2013, 14:14
As far as we know, the only "official rules update" this book has is Stormraven for SM and BT.

But by looking at how many people play SM, probably half of the playerbase will want this book in one form or another.

totgeboren
01-02-2013, 14:24
I don't mean to whine,but, isn't it bad policy if GW publishes a book, that you have to pay EXTRA to your stupid 40euro costing hardback just to be able to play the rules? (Not to mention the 60+ euro RuleBook)

Not to mention how stupid it sounds to people playing having spent 400+ euro to buy flyer armies that might get nerfed to the ground. (Go ahead and buy your new book, to nerf your whole army!)

I hardly think rules will change. I mean, it would only make sense! The flyers are selling way too well, for GW to nerf them! Scythes must be the most sold model!

This made me think of Eldar. 3ed the Wraithlord was king, everyone had at least two. 4ed the HoloFalcon was maybe the most broken thing in the game. Now in 6ed, the holofalcon truly sucks. Would it be reasonable to assume that Eldar players using the flying circus of 4ed would not buy either 5ed or 6ed, because their armies got nerfed?

If this new book does nerf some of the most broken fliers, would not the opponents who face said flyers want this book? And would anyone think it was a valid of someone who fields lots of Vendettas or Scythes to refuse to play using the updated rules?

Can Eldar players today say that they refuse to use the latest Eldar FAQ? Of course, they can. I can say I refuse to play unless my chaos champions are not forced to challenge. But it's an odd thing to do.

Dryaktylus
01-02-2013, 14:53
If this new book does nerf some of the most broken fliers, would not the opponents who face said flyers want this book? And would anyone think it was a valid of someone who fields lots of Vendettas or Scythes to refuse to play using the updated rules?


Non-english players with GW publications in their own languages can always refuse to use any content from this book if they don't get a new FAQ.

stormnut
01-02-2013, 15:12
Could it be that they will be releasing rules updates for these said flyers very soon and will be offering the book around the same time with extras? That to me would explain the limited print runs.

And by release I mean free PDF rules updates

Zabousta
01-02-2013, 15:16
Not sure I get this.

I don't care who shows up with this book, if its not in my codex or errata, then I'm not using it.

Flyers are really expensive, and arguably break the game when taken in larger numbers. Not sure if I like the idea of a supplement encouraging more of them.

eldargal
01-02-2013, 15:27
Well you can refuse to play whatever you want, of course. But if it is an official GW publication it is as valid as errata put up on their website. If GW take the opportunity to balance some of the odler flyers then this should have the opposite effect you fear. If.

Porlock
01-02-2013, 15:36
Even with Faeit saying it's "official" - I won't believe this until I see it on GW's homepage. It still all sounds a bit fishy to me...

Besides, I have all the rules I need from the White Dwarfs - no reason to buy this if it's just what's in those rumors...

Zothos
01-02-2013, 16:05
Back in the Rogue Trader days, Games Workshop published books filled with White Dwarf Articles. The Venerable Warhammer 40,000 Compendium and Compilation come to mind. Hell, Chaos Dwarfs only army book EVER was a compilation of White Dwarf articles.

Everyone loved them, including myself.

Now it seems people think they are entitled to this information for free.

Is it the Internet that makes you think youre entitled to free pdf rules files? Is it a generational thing?

Point being, If GW wants to publish these things in book form and charge for it, they can. You are not entitled to it because it had been previously published.

Quite frankly i wish they would do these things more often.

TheFang
01-02-2013, 16:35
Quite frankly i wish they would do these things more often.

Remember the Wargear book? Outdated before the ink dried.

I'd have no problem with it if they actually kept it up to date with downloads.

Theocracity
01-02-2013, 16:42
I'm pretty sure that if the Valkyrie and Vendetta are included in this book, it will be to update them with the FAQ changes that already exist - not change any of their points cost or statistics. Don't get your hopes up.

Also, I'm looking forward to having Dogfighting rules in a more useful / available supplement.

Zothos
01-02-2013, 16:49
Remember the Wargear book? Outdated before the ink dried.

I'd have no problem with it if they actually kept it up to date with downloads.

I do remember the Wargear book. Silly thing that.

The difference being it was not a White Dwarf Compilation. ( correct me if i am wrong)

Hendarion
01-02-2013, 17:08
Dunno what's the problem with the Wargear book. I loved it. If not for the rules, then for the fluff and pictures. ... in case we're talking about the same book.

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
01-02-2013, 17:12
It would be so funny if they use this new book to make the Vendetta, Baledrake and Necrons flyers actually even more powerful ! GW trolling us hard.

Vaktathi
01-02-2013, 17:18
Back in the Rogue Trader days, Games Workshop published books filled with White Dwarf Articles. The Venerable Warhammer 40,000 Compendium and Compilation come to mind. Hell, Chaos Dwarfs only army book EVER was a compilation of White Dwarf articles.

Everyone loved them, including myself.

Now it seems people think they are entitled to this information for free.

Is it the Internet that makes you think youre entitled to free pdf rules files? Is it a generational thing? It's because it's status quo for the rest of the wargaming market at this point outside of GW (hell Spartan Games just put up the entire core rulebook for Firestorm Armada up for free today, Battlefront routinely releases new list PDF's for Flames of War, while Dream Pod 9 has made their core rules and faction lists as free PDFs several times), and because, quite frankly, since the vast majority of WD's lack any real content, nobody buys them and the few that do have them end up as free online PDF's anyway within hours, just that people are going through 4chan and The Pirate Bay to get them instead of going through GW's website where they might otherwise be tempted to buy something.

As is, most of the previous GW re-releases had a lot more content than this release and were cheaper. With this book, much of it is just copy-pasta of existing codex stuff, with only a couple WD reprints and a couple pages of copy-paste material another $40something release they just did, with lots of very nice looking pictures.




As much as many of us hoped this book would really be more relevant, I'm not surprised it's just a reprint of existing content with the only new thing being that BT's and SM's can take Stormravens.

This would have been a great opportunity to patch some of the issues with individual flyers (primarily the drastically overcapable/undercosted AV12 ones) and introduce some AA weapons and flyers for those factions that currently lack them (Forgeworld notwithstanding), ensuring that nearly every 40k player would buy this book.

As is, unless you're playing vanilla SM's or BT's, or are using one of the flyers that only got WD rules and are incapable of hunting for a PDF, there's really no reason to buy this book.

Thomson
01-02-2013, 17:37
Could it be that they will be releasing rules updates for these said flyers very soon and will be offering the book around the same time with extras? That to me would explain the limited print runs.

And by release I mean free PDF rules updates

Since Guard and Space Marines didn't get a FAQ update last time, it is not so unreasonable to expect that their FAQ are updated when the book is released.

M'ichal
01-02-2013, 17:59
IF the rumours are correct, this is a strange book but so is the whole GW rule system. New core editions coming out while codices are 2 editions old, WD-codices, one-off WD units with custom rules, those rules then being re-printed in some "update" books, WD erratas to expansions (Cities of Death)...this is SO messed up. A new edition of a system should not come out until all armies are brought up-to-date with the latest one, only then can you ensure consistency and balance, not this mish-mash of printouts, magazines and reactive nonsense.

Ugly.

Spider-pope
01-02-2013, 18:07
IF the rumours are correct, this is a strange book but so is the whole GW rule system. New core editions coming out while codices are 2 editions old, WD-codices, one-off WD units with custom rules, those rules then being re-printed in some "update" books, WD erratas to expansions (Cities of Death)...this is SO messed up. A new edition of a system should not come out until all armies are brought up-to-date with the latest one, only then can you ensure consistency and balance, not this mish-mash of printouts, magazines and reactive nonsense.

Ugly.

You make the mistake of thinking that rules consistency and balance are priorities for GW. They aren't, and never have been. Their business is selling miniatures, rules are secondary. And if a range isn't selling, they aren't going to update it when they can release a new edition of the game that'll bump sales instead.

There is nothing particularly strange about a compendium of WD articles, they did them in the past after all. I think those getting their hopes up for a revision of units are likely to be disappointed however. Assuming of course this book actually exists. Given how often the "Something of Flyers" rumour crops up i have a hard time believing any flyer release is imminent these days.

M'ichal
01-02-2013, 18:32
You make the mistake of thinking that rules consistency and balance are priorities for GW. They aren't, and never have been. Their business is selling miniatures, rules are secondary. And if a range isn't selling, they aren't going to update it when they can release a new edition of the game that'll bump sales instead.

There is nothing particularly strange about a compendium of WD articles, they did them in the past after all.

Well, I am not saying I don't understand why they do this, I am just saying that to me it is a confusing and chaotic system of doing rules and it should be better. I've been a hobbyist for a few years now but just getting to the gaming part now, so my perspective is that of a new gamer. I don't know what was happening 20 years ago, nor do I think it should matter.

At least the starter box is very decent in that regard.

Sildani
01-02-2013, 23:49
I'll be fairly happy if the book contains a pic of the Voidraven. Wouldn't that be something?




Yes, I'm keeping my expectations low.

Hunchkrot
02-02-2013, 05:38
The main thing that stinks about this rumor for me, is that it doesn't mention an update for the harpy. If they want it to sell(which they do), then they'll need to give it some new rules. Realistically it's going to be at least a little overpowered so it'll sell, but, hey, I'm not complaining!

And something interesting I noticed is that the leaked cover is actually subtly different from the WD stormtalon picture. Now I don't have the actual magazine anymore, so I could be totally wrong, but I did find this neat lil' picture via a quick search.
163221
Now if you look at it, there are a few basic changes, such as the cropping and the other stormtalons. But as an ignorant Tyranid player, all I care about is the group of objects on the left-hand side. Whatever they were,(it's too fuzzy for me to clearly tell), I CAN see that they've been narrowed down to a single harpy in the new cover.

Once again, I'm using a crappy picture found on the internet, but if anyone owns the article I'd appreciate some confirmation.

M'ichal
03-02-2013, 00:37
I have that issue, and on the pic there are 2 stormtalons, 1 thunderhawk and on the left side, a bunch of blurry objects that look like some tyranid fliers. So yeah, you're right, it looks different.

brassangel
03-02-2013, 09:11
Not sure I get this.

I don't care who shows up with this book, if its not in my codex or errata, then I'm not using it.

Flyers are really expensive, and arguably break the game when taken in larger numbers. Not sure if I like the idea of a supplement encouraging more of them.

Chances are, it just has the updated versions of said fliers. There are probably no rules that make them cheaper and/or better.


It's because it's status quo for the rest of the wargaming market at this point outside of GW (hell Spartan Games just put up the entire core rulebook for Firestorm Armada up for free today, Battlefront routinely releases new list PDF's for Flames of War, while Dream Pod 9 has made their core rules and faction lists as free PDFs several times), and because, quite frankly, since the vast majority of WD's lack any real content, nobody buys them and the few that do have them end up as free online PDF's anyway within hours, just that people are going through 4chan and The Pirate Bay to get them instead of going through GW's website where they might otherwise be tempted to buy something.

As is, most of the previous GW re-releases had a lot more content than this release and were cheaper. With this book, much of it is just copy-pasta of existing codex stuff, with only a couple WD reprints and a couple pages of copy-paste material another $40something release they just did, with lots of very nice looking pictures.




As much as many of us hoped this book would really be more relevant, I'm not surprised it's just a reprint of existing content with the only new thing being that BT's and SM's can take Stormravens.

This would have been a great opportunity to patch some of the issues with individual flyers (primarily the drastically overcapable/undercosted AV12 ones) and introduce some AA weapons and flyers for those factions that currently lack them (Forgeworld notwithstanding), ensuring that nearly every 40k player would buy this book.

As is, unless you're playing vanilla SM's or BT's, or are using one of the flyers that only got WD rules and are incapable of hunting for a PDF, there's really no reason to buy this book.

And yet GW continues to outsell and outgrow those other companies. When you have far fewer miniatures, a far smaller game system or series of systems, each with a much smaller distribution demographic, getting the rules out there quick and cheap are an easy task by comparison. Those companies also employ about 1/10th of the people, and have a fraction of the production costs.

GW will also outlast them.

As for the book contents: it seems there will also be new rules for dog-fighting, new scenarios, and new mini-games. New ways to play seem relevant to lots of people. Skirmish games that can be played on a whim are attractive to a large percentage of the people.

If you don't want to buy it, don't. People will decide with their money, by choice, not because GW steals it from bank accounts. People act like they deserve everything for free. If they'd stop stealing crap off the internet and passing it off as "sharing," a lot of companies would probably loosen up their policies a bit.

Vaktathi
03-02-2013, 10:21
And yet GW continues to outsell and outgrow those other companies. Outgrow? I doubt it, GW's growth over the last 7 years (as far back as I can find data for) is largely in line with inflation, up some years and down others but averaging over the whole to be roughly at the same rate as inflation, which is to say, stagnant. Spartan Games, Battlefront, and Privateer Press have grown at much faster rates during that same time period.



GW will also outlast them. Pure conjecture.

Much of GW's gains recently, especially this last year, have been largely due to short term events such as price increases and internal cost cutting (e.g. moving away from expensive metal and to resin for many models) and replacing the entire paint line (forcing every retailer to empty their stock and re-purchase a completely new inventory). These are not reproducible actions, at least not for very long. Coupled with the Chairman and once-again CEO Tom Kirby (who is the 4th largest share holder with the other top 5 shareholders being Hedge funds) having the company *borrow* money to pay dividends on several occasions (inexplicable from a business sense except to double or treble his yearly personal income), and price increases that are increasing at roughly double or more the rate of inflation over time making GW's products more expensive in real terms (i.e. adjusted for inflation) than they ever have been before, well, there's some concerns about long term viability to be had ;) though that is really for another thread altogether.




If you don't want to buy it, don't. People will decide with their money, by choice, not because GW steals it from bank accounts. People act like they deserve everything for free. If they'd stop stealing crap off the internet and passing it off as "sharing," a lot of companies would probably loosen up their policies a bit.Just about every major policy study on that subject not funded by the RIAA/MPAA would prove you wrong. If people think a product is good enough the price for, generally they do. The overwhelmingly vast majority of pirating is done either by those that would never buy it in the first place, those who are never going to buy it at the price it's currently at, or those that don't have an other legal market method of obtaining a product, and as a result, either way, IP owners rarely are out anywhere near as much as they think they are. Ultimately, if most people are resorting to piracy to obtain your product, it's generally not worth what you're charging for it, and piracy is a fact of the market that you can't just shake a finger at and say "Bad", but must instead acknowledge and restructure one's business model around its existence, because you sure aren't going to stop it.

Also, books aren't drives GW's revenue and profit, it's miniatures sales.

That, and the rest of the tabletop gaming market routinely does free PDF's of such things, Spartan games put of their core rulebook for Firestorm Armada and stat cards for their fleets, Dream Pod 9 has their core rules up for free and their new faction rules available for PDF download at a third of their print cost, Corvus Belli has made the entire rules for Infinity and a complete army builder with linked and indexed rules available for free, the guys that do Flames of War routinely make new and unique lists available for play. Wizards of the coast offers free PDF's for D&D for stuff like previous editions, new adventures and campaigns, maps, character sheets, etc. There's a definite trend amongst the industry for cheap and/or free PDF's for content, of which GW alone hasn't hopped on, and some of these players, like Wizards of the Coast, are just as big.



Unfortunately, over the last few years, relatively few of GW's expansion releases like this have really done much. Battle Missions, Planetstirke and Planetary Empires splashed for about a week and disappeared forever in 99% of gaming communities, and Spearhead and Crusade of Fire didn't even get that much. Off of those expectations, if this release is anything like those, and every indication so far is that it will be with most of the content being copy-pasta from codex books, WD and Crusade of Fire, it would explain the lack of enthusiasm for this release and the desire for it to just be a PDF download.

Darnok
03-02-2013, 10:24
Folks, please stay on topic.


Darnok [=I=]

Polaria
03-02-2013, 17:47
And something interesting I noticed is that the leaked cover is actually subtly different from the WD stormtalon picture. Now I don't have the actual magazine anymore, so I could be totally wrong, but I did find this neat lil' picture via a quick search.
163221
Now if you look at it, there are a few basic changes, such as the cropping and the other stormtalons. But as an ignorant Tyranid player, all I care about is the group of objects on the left-hand side. Whatever they were,(it's too fuzzy for me to clearly tell), I CAN see that they've been narrowed down to a single harpy in the new cover.

Once again, I'm using a crappy picture found on the internet, but if anyone owns the article I'd appreciate some confirmation.

I just took out my copy of WD390 and can absolutely confirm what you've already noticed. The Stormtalon itself looks 100% same in the leaked picture and WD390 article, but the background of the pictures is very much different. The upper left corner harpy is all new and so are the rock formations on bottow left of the picture.

Wise Guy Sam
04-02-2013, 07:32
I thought that storm talon picture on the cover was from the digital SM codex.

stahly
04-02-2013, 09:02
I wonder what this book will mean for the rumored flyer wave release. It's hard to imagine they put out a flyer book without much drum rolling in the second half of a month, and then release a couple new flyer kits one and a half month later. Would make much more marketing sense to release such a book alongside new kits. New flyers might be further away than thought (and than recent rumours told us).

eldargal
04-02-2013, 09:15
Maybe they hope it will drum up more enthusiasm for flyers prior to a new release?

Sildani
04-02-2013, 11:47
There's already considerable excitement for flyers, I suspect, especially for those armies that don't have one yet. I've been wanting a Voidraven for a very long while, as well.

I'd be daft if I claimed to know GW's mind, but I will say they can't win. I recall when a Chapter Approved book came out every year, compiling all the rules put in WD and adding one or two more. People complained about carrying multiple books and binders around on order to have all the rules. GW then apparently said Fine, we hear you, all the rules will be in the BRB and Codex, and we'll do infrequent updates via FAQ. People said this was boring, and what happened to the WDs of yore that had new rules and content?

Every once in a while, I feel GW is darned if they do, and darned if they don't.

eldargal
04-02-2013, 11:50
I get that feeling all the time.;) If the book does include a re-balancing of the vendetta (and maybe nightscythe if we are lucky) I know it would make some of the other flyers look much better as everyone keeps on comparing them to the one or two genuinely overpowered/undercosted flyers in the game. The void raven is already a very good flyer, if the vendetta were re-balanced it would be even better, so releasing the model a few weeks after such a book could be worthwhile. However it is mere speculation that this is happening at all and there has never been any indication that GW really care about how the rules might impact on sales.

We will know one way or the other in two weeks or so when the March WD is leaked.:)

Gazak Blacktoof
04-02-2013, 12:16
I imagine "updated for 6th edition" simply means they incorporated the amendments and errata from the FAQs, can't imagine them to change point costs or the like.

This has been my thinking too.

GW do change rules and costs when think it absolutely necessary, but I don't think this is a case of them doing that. Why don't I think this book will include any balance tweaks? Simply because the book is available in English only.

If the distribution was across all of the usual languages GW publish their rules in, then I'd be more inclined to think there might be something more significant to this release than it being a compilation of the existing flier rules, with the integrated errata and FAQs. But according to the rumour that isn't the way the book will be published, so I'm not holding my breath for any earth-shattering changes.

Thomson
04-02-2013, 13:14
This has been my thinking too.

GW do change rules and costs when think it absolutely necessary, but I don't think this is a case of them doing that. Why don't I think this book will include any balance tweaks? Simply because the book is available in English only.

If the distribution was across all of the usual languages GW publish their rules in, then I'd be more inclined to think there might be something more significant to this release than it being a compilation of the existing flier rules, with the integrated errata and FAQs. But according to the rumour that isn't the way the book will be published, so I'm not holding my breath for any earth-shattering changes.

My ideas what they may change (with the most probable changes first and the least last)


Everything in the current FAQ
Remove Deepstrike and Scout from old flyers
Reduce AV of some of the old flyers
Reduce weapon ranges of some of the old flyers
Increase Point costs

orkcommander
04-02-2013, 14:07
Will this be treated as an expansion and not part of the core game? Because if it is not it should be.

Mandragola
04-02-2013, 14:18
I also think GW should make their rules available for free, like so many other people do. People like free stuff. Lots of people would actually still buy the codex, me perhaps included.

This wouldn't just give access to the hobby to more people, it would also allow them to change the rules far more easily. Something I've heard them say is that every codex ends up being a first edition, so there are always mistakes in them. It's not unreasonable that there are mistakes but it is unreasonable that they have a system that means they can't do anything about it.

Antipathy
04-02-2013, 15:00
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

Thomson
04-02-2013, 15:25
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

Well, the problem is it can carry squads which can jump out of it and claim objectives, too. (In addition to being the beforementioned Predator Annihilator on roids)

andrewm9
04-02-2013, 15:42
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

Some armies don't do too well without their mech. SoB is a perfect example.

Marshal
04-02-2013, 15:55
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

And I'm sure Nids have a great time fighting them also, but that's neither here nor there. Some of us play armies that require transports of some shape or sort for a bit of survivability as well as heavy support vehicles to back us up. It's not that it's impossible to kill, or deal with for that matter, it's that it's a no brainer choice. Damn near every guard army I've ever faced has at least 2 of them in this edition if not 3. If something was decently balanced within the codex, then you simply wouldn't see this. It would be a good variety of vehicles used.

Bartali
04-02-2013, 16:35
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

Then a Heldrake comes along and breathes on foot Marines.

As you've no doubt realized (judging by your armies), 6th is about taking piles and piles of cheap scoring infantry. Expensive MEQ and transports don't do so well

Spiney Norman
04-02-2013, 16:58
Why do people keep saying the Vendetta is unbalanced? Sure its a Predator Annihilator on roids and is cheaper than most othernfliers, but if you don't take anything worth shooting at, it is useless. My Orks love it, so does my Guard. Sure I cannot shoot it down, but it is as useful as a Chocolate teapot. Even my Artillery Marines have fun with it.

If you are still running mech, then that is your fault.

It is unbalanced, its far too few points to account for its worth on the battle field, and the reasons you've cited are exactly why is it not as overpowered as the helldrake: utility. The drake is worse because it can toast entire troop squads at a time, its impossible to negate the drake by not taking suitable targets because everyone needs something that can old an objective.

philbrad2
04-02-2013, 20:06
There's already been one 'keep on topic' warning. This is the final one. Please keep to the thread topic or the thread gets closed. Last warning.

PhilB
:chrome:
+ =I= + WarSeer Moderation Team + =I= +
WarSeer Posting Guidelines (http://www.warseer.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_posting_guidelines)
The WarSeer FAQ (http://www.warseer.com/forums/faq.php)
The WarSeer Moderation/Posting/Forum guidelines (http://www.warseer.com/forums/faq.php?faq=the_forums#faq_rules)

tau_caste
06-02-2013, 23:14
not sure if i missed it but it doesnt look like anyone has actually confirmed this book.. again if i missed it im sorry.. but well i can confirm it.. its definitely real.. and its not going to be limited run.. people need to stop worrying about this.. its direct only (well thats what i saw) and it appears to be just a stopgap so that BT etc can have longer in development. it doesnt look like there will be anything new or anything from armies recently done. It seems like a way to stop marine players whinging that they cant find the rules for the talon.. which IMO is the problem GW has with making new models without a codex entry.

now you might be wondering where i got all this.. well i saw the email circulated to GW stores.. i wont name the store or the person who showed me but it was in the release schedule for january/ february. right before the black library releases. if you dont want to believe me then fine but that cover is the real deal and BT and vanilla marines are getting the stormraven.. and cue whining blood angel players... seeing as ive already heard a heap..

Azzy
07-02-2013, 00:44
I'm not a BA player, but I will whine about the Storm Raven being opened up to non-BA/GK armies. :(

daboarder
07-02-2013, 02:07
not sure if i missed it but it doesnt look like anyone has actually confirmed this book.. again if i missed it im sorry.. but well i can confirm it.. its definitely real.. and its not going to be limited run.. people need to stop worrying about this.. its direct only (well thats what i saw) and it appears to be just a stopgap so that BT etc can have longer in development. it doesnt look like there will be anything new or anything from armies recently done. It seems like a way to stop marine players whinging that they cant find the rules for the talon.. which IMO is the problem GW has with making new models without a codex entry.

now you might be wondering where i got all this.. well i saw the email circulated to GW stores.. i wont name the store or the person who showed me but it was in the release schedule for january/ february. right before the black library releases. if you dont want to believe me then fine but that cover is the real deal and BT and vanilla marines are getting the stormraven.. and cue whining blood angel players... seeing as ive already heard a heap..

Given the fact that its the 7th, this is meant to be released in 10 days and we pretty much haven't had anything but re-hashing of the original rumour and a questionable picture....I'm thinking shenanigans!

tau_caste
07-02-2013, 02:34
thats fine dont believe me.. when its out maybe you will. i know what i saw and im pretty sure the store didnt just make one just to mess with rumours

Pa1adin111
07-02-2013, 04:39
appears to be just a stopgap so that BT etc can have longer in development
Glad to hear they're in development, and yes I'd love to have a couple of stormravens for my my BT and Imperial Fist armies! :)

NixonAsADaemonPrince
07-02-2013, 11:59
*Space Wolf cries in corner*

Thanks for the rumours tau_caste :)

jtrowell
07-02-2013, 12:07
Is the fact that it's a stopgap for BT your own theory, or were there something in the mentionned GW email on this topic ?

alextroy
07-02-2013, 13:14
My GW Store just scheduled an Death from the Skies flyer Megabattle for Feb 16 and mentioned the supplement. I think this is really happening.

Romanus
08-02-2013, 00:45
Can confirm guys, definitely going ahead, nothing new in it just a compilation of all the flyer rules into one handy supplement, supposed to be au $35 so for every one else about half that price lol. Storm ravens are definitely able to be taken for Space Marines and Black Templar, bu that's the only change.

Cheers,
Rom

orik
08-02-2013, 01:36
Storm ravens are definitely able to be taken for Space Marines and Black Templar

That would explain why the Storm Ravens in SM/BT index in the BRB. so it wasn't just a typo lol
looking forward to the Raven actually, always wanted 1 for my army

Maxis Lithium
08-02-2013, 04:21
Any idea what they're going to do with the existing units? Are they going to tweek or clarify anything on the Ork jets, the Guard aircraft, etc?

The Dude
08-02-2013, 04:52
There will most likely be nothing done to the existing units other than reprint the bestiary and unit entry pages with the most recent 6th Ed FAQ Errata incorporated in them.

I wouldn't get hopes up for anything more.

If there were any more changes, they'd also have to be reflected in new FAQ/Errata for the requisite Codices.

Romanus
08-02-2013, 05:16
Exactly as the Dude says, no changes, no tweaks, just compiling everything into one place instead of across army books, rule books, Faqs and White Dwarfs.

Cheers,
Rom

Hunchkrot
08-02-2013, 07:06
This book had so much potential... Oh well, I'll probably get my harpy rules when the model comes out in 2019.

Ultraloth
08-02-2013, 08:14
Glad to hear they're in development, and yes I'd love to have a couple of stormravens for my my BT and Imperial Fist armies! :)

What you heard was conjecture, not confirmation. I wouldn't get my hopes up.

jimbo1701
08-02-2013, 12:01
Exactly as the Dude says, no changes, no tweaks, just compiling everything into one place instead of across army books, rule books, Faqs and White Dwarfs.

Cheers,
Rom

Shame they missed out the DA flyers then as they needed an FAQ also for the blast profile and the missile lock error. If this is all the book consists of then I shall pass as I've long since stopped pining for a stormraven in my crimson fists force and have the WD with the flyer rules in already. If the changes were more drastic, say points adjustments for certain flyers, then I'd be more inclined.

Sildani
08-02-2013, 12:10
Any idea if there's a pic of the Dark Eldar Voidraven?

Gingerwerewolf
08-02-2013, 14:35
If Vanilla & BT are getting the Stormraven, here's hoping they give BA the Stormtalon.

After all Blood Angles wouldn't succeed their mastery of the skies to anyone...

Azazyll
08-02-2013, 14:43
If Vanilla & BT are getting the Stormraven, here's hoping they give BA the Stormtalon.

After all Blood Angles wouldn't succeed their mastery of the skies to anyone...

Hear hear! Everybody shares or nobody does. Especially since the original background called for the Stormraven to be the secret tech. Presumably everybody knows about the Stormtalon.

I suppose this means the Stormraven wasn't selling well enough. From a business perspective, it never made sense for them to restrict it to two SM armies.

Spiney Norman
08-02-2013, 14:51
Can confirm guys, definitely going ahead, nothing new in it just a compilation of all the flyer rules into one handy supplement, supposed to be au $35 so for every one else about half that price lol. Storm ravens are definitely able to be taken for Space Marines and Black Templar, bu that's the only change.

Cheers,
Rom

Ok, so no real reason to buy it then.

Is it me or can I hear a multitude of voices loudly mocking Dark Angel players from the direction of GW HQ?

I was actually getting used to the idea of the Nephilim being a waste of space in the codex, but having a flyer that actually can shoot down other flyers copied into every other SM army barely a month after our codex drops feels like an almighty slap in the face.

Lester
08-02-2013, 15:05
Ok, so no real reason to buy it then.

Is it me or can I hear a multitude of voices loudly mocking Dark Angel players from the direction of GW HQ?

I was actually getting used to the idea of the Nephilim being a waste of space in the codex, but having a flyer that actually can shoot down other flyers copied into every other SM army barely a month after our codex drops feels like an almighty slap in the face.

If this is true, GW trolled DA players...again.

dean
08-02-2013, 15:24
I didnt want a Storm Chicken or a Guppy anyway...


Has anybody actually used the Nephillim or is this just all Mathhammer and internet tripe?

TheRaven
08-02-2013, 15:27
I think the thing that disappointing me the most is if someone who doesn't follow the internet like a hawk, as we do, goes into a store, see's it as "Direct Order Only" and buys it (For a hefty price if you ask me.....) thinking there will be something interesting in it and then finds out it's all just previously published stuff from FAW's or a couple white dwarf rules.......

Gingerwerewolf
08-02-2013, 18:21
I am seriously worried its just going to reprint the rules from Crusade of Fire - as that makes that purchase worthless as well. And Crusade of Fire was just a glorified White Dwarf article anyway :(


Hear hear! Everybody shares or nobody does. Especially since the original background called for the Stormraven to be the secret tech. Presumably everybody knows about the Stormtalon.

I suppose this means the Stormraven wasn't selling well enough. From a business perspective, it never made sense for them to restrict it to two SM armies.

But surely the same goes for the Stormtalon - that will sell more if they open it up to the Blood Angels, Dark Angels and everyone...

Deff Mekz
08-02-2013, 20:15
So if Blood Angel Stormravens have Bloodstrike missles, and Grey Knight Stormravens have Mindstrike missles. What would Black Templar/Codex Marine Stormravens have? :shifty:

M'ichal
08-02-2013, 20:33
So if Blood Angel Stormravens have Bloodstrike missles, and Grey Knight Stormravens have Mindstrike missles. What would Black Templar/Codex Marine Stormravens have? :shifty:

Krak grenades.

Asbjorn Nightrunner
08-02-2013, 20:44
Krak grenades.

Antioch missiles!

Marked_by_chaos
08-02-2013, 20:58
This looks to be arguably the most rediculous gw book release for some time if the rumours are true.

Presumably £25-30 for a re-publishing of the existing rules (from codexes which you will also need to field them as part of an army) for already released flyers plus a couple of kits released in white dwarf. In addition you get the rules already published in the last "campaign" supplement. Presumably there is also a bit of oversized banal text and perhaps 5-10 pages of contrived new content concerning 2-3 new releases that will soon be part of a new codex that you will have to buy.

Spider-pope
08-02-2013, 21:45
This looks to be arguably the most rediculous gw book release for some time if the rumours are true.

Presumably £25-30 for a re-publishing of the existing rules (from codexes which you will also need to field them as part of an army) for already released flyers plus a couple of kits released in white dwarf. In addition you get the rules already published in the last "campaign" supplement. Presumably there is also a bit of oversized banal text and perhaps 5-10 pages of contrived new content concerning 2-3 new releases that will soon be part of a new codex that you will have to buy.

Then don't buy it. If you don't think it contains anything relevant for you, don't purchase it. I'm not buying it myself, because i don't need any of it's contents. It is no more ridiculous a release however than any of the past compendiums that have collected White Dwarf articles together.

Grndhog89
08-02-2013, 21:57
Ok, so no real reason to buy it then.

Is it me or can I hear a multitude of voices loudly mocking Dark Angel players from the direction of GW HQ?

I was actually getting used to the idea of the Nephilim being a waste of space in the codex, but having a flyer that actually can shoot down other flyers copied into every other SM army barely a month after our codex drops feels like an almighty slap in the face.

Hey at least we aren't alone. They also gave the finger to the SW by not giving them a flyer.

Prodigalson
09-02-2013, 20:52
Wow, excellent opportunity to repoint appropriately all the old flyers and they blow it. My DA flyers are still NIB and will remain that way. They are crap for their point cost.

kenzman
09-02-2013, 20:54
Hey at least we aren't alone. They also gave the finger to the SW by not giving them a flyer.

Sisters don't have a flyer and it would have been easy to give them a raven too. But im glad they didn't because i would rather see them get one that's "for them". I feel the same for wolves.

Mandragola
10-02-2013, 13:36
Why not wolves? It makes some kind of sense if only one chapter has access to a particular piece of wargear, if they have invented it or found it. It's odd for everyone apart from one chapter to have it.

Sisters should have their own thing. They aren't marines so they should have a minimum of marine stuff. Wolves are marines though and have basically all the vehicles that normal marines have. I suppose DA are in the same boat, though at least their dark talon is pretty good.

I'd have given the storm talon to everyone, probably including dark angels. Not sure everyone should have the storm raven as it's a pretty major addition to have a flying assault transport. We'll see when the book appears I suppose.

I do also think this book is a massive missed opportunity if they aren't looking at the rules for any of the existing flyers. They probably want to stay clear of forcing people to buy the book, and that's fair enough, but a points change could easily have been done with a FAQ at the same time.

underhivetrader
10-02-2013, 21:12
I dont have an Ipad, and I need the rules for the Ork flyer. So I guess I'll be picking one up.

Stonerhino
11-02-2013, 02:09
Hey at least we aren't alone. They also gave the finger to the SW by not giving them a flyer.I would be ok with Long Fangs with Flakk missiles.

Gryps
11-02-2013, 07:22
Why not wolves? It makes some kind of sense if only one chapter has access to a particular piece of wargear, if they have invented it or found it. It's odd for everyone apart from one chapter to have it.

As a really old (20 years and counting...) Wolf player I agree with you.
It seems indeed add to leave Wolves out of the third dimension of gaming.
At least, for the time being, GW seems to do that.

On the other hand, Forgeworld do support Wolves (along all the other chapters) with:
- Caestus Assault Ram
- Storm Eagle Assault Gunship
- Hyperios Air Defence Battery (Anti-Aircraft)
- Whirlwind Hyperios (Anti-Aircraft)
- Thunderhawk Gunship
- Thunderhawk Transporter
References for these can be found in SWCALRI (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?349580-Space-Wolves-Complete-Army-List-Reference-Index), as in my signature...

Warning: Wishthinking following, NOT a rumor; with timescale been just a logical (?) assumption:
i) As for Games Workshop, I really hope that SW will get a codex in early / middle 2014 which could include SW specific aircraft variations and / or armament restrictions.
(So, perhaps Storm Talon goes to all marines but "Storm Fang" goes only to Wolves etc...)
Could there be close-combat wolfy aircraft ?!?!? (Imagine the insanity of this... LOL)
Perhaps we will see the first Plastic Thunderhawk released just then (with armament variants following name variations)!

ii) Close after that (middle / late 2014?), Forge World could release Horus Heresy: Execution (of Prospero) with Wolves, Thousand Sons, Sister of Silence army lists and a couple of Custodian units.
I know that Wolf players cannot and will not really enter HH frenzy without a unique / specific army list (and miniatures) for them.
At the time being we see 30K battles from afar...
Leman Russ, Bjorn, Storm Claws (jetbikers), Iron Priest automata and units, Were-Wolfbrothers, Wolfy armour Mks upgrades, perhaps some Wolf resin variations (Fenrisian, Cyber- and Thunder-), a Morkai two-headed wolf "Character Beast", many choices to be released in resin...

It seems 2014 could be Year of the Wolf!

Bah, rumblings of a Long Fang...

Sureshot05
11-02-2013, 12:30
If this is really just a reprint of the rules from WD, just to enable people to access the rules to the Storm Talon (only model which doesn't have rules in print after the DoC release next month) then I think Gw is losing the plot. They won't do the wave releases as poeple were making the models before they could (tervigon is the prime example) and now they're not releasing new rules in WD, then are they tying themselves to a codex/army book a month? Very curious to see the future outcome of this.

Additionally, why didn't they take the opportunity to balance the game? It really would have been well received, but this just seems like a stop gap solution for the Storm Talon.

theJ
11-02-2013, 14:45
Technically, it'll help the Ork flyers, too.
Also, I really think we oughta hold back on the whining until we actually see the darn thing. It wouldn't be the first time we've missed some important detail that changes everything.

Captain Collius
11-02-2013, 19:29
I didnt want a Storm Chicken or a Guppy anyway...


Has anybody actually used the Nephillim or is this just all Mathhammer and internet tripe?

1 Yes i have used it. It is fun in gmaes with friends but in a tournament setting where if you see flyers they generally come in groups of 2-3 it is just not good enough.

2. this book sound like GW knows BT and SM are a bit away so lets give them a band-aid to give them some anti-flyer. Ohh and make it so people can buy copies of the rules for their new ork and space marine flyers. At a great profit.

spagunk
12-02-2013, 05:18
Wish there were more concrete rumors about what exactly changes with the stormraven because so far I am finding it hard to justify buying the book. Cautiously optimistic for now.

Thanks goes out to our Rumor peeps for their efforts! :)

The Dude
12-02-2013, 08:44
Wish there were more concrete rumors about what exactly changes with the stormraven

I'd say have a look at the Blood Angel and Grey Knight FAQ documents for an idea ;)

Spiney Norman
12-02-2013, 15:07
If this is really just a reprint of the rules from WD, just to enable people to access the rules to the Storm Talon (only model which doesn't have rules in print after the DoC release next month) then I think Gw is losing the plot. They won't do the wave releases as poeple were making the models before they could (tervigon is the prime example) and now they're not releasing new rules in WD, then are they tying themselves to a codex/army book a month? Very curious to see the future outcome of this.

Additionally, why didn't they take the opportunity to balance the game? It really would have been well received, but this just seems like a stop gap solution for the Storm Talon.

Perhaps because Jervis' favourite saying is, "whenever you have a chance to balance the game, don't do it", the history of warhammer fantasy and 40K is replete with missed opportunities to balance the game, because GW don't want a balanced game, they want a game where you have to buy the latest power units in the latest armies to remain competitive.

Thomson
12-02-2013, 15:12
Perhaps because Jervis' favourite saying is, "whenever you have a chance to balance the game, don't do it", the history of warhammer fantasy and 40K is replete with missed opportunities to balance the game, because GW don't want a balanced game, they want a game where you have to buy the latest power units in the latest armies to remain competitive.
Uh... I don't think so. GW has no problem with exploiting players who buy miniatures for the stats, but their main goal is to create a casual beer & brezel game for people to have fun together. Yeah of course they want to make as much money as possible, but that's business.

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
12-02-2013, 18:49
[GW] want a game where you have to buy the latest power units in the latest armies to remain competitive.
Evidence points otherwise. See mutilators and daemon engines other than the Helldrake for instance.

Polaria
12-02-2013, 19:40
Perhaps because Jervis' favourite saying is, "whenever you have a chance to balance the game, don't do it", the history of warhammer fantasy and 40K is replete with missed opportunities to balance the game, because GW don't want a balanced game, they want a game where you have to buy the latest power units in the latest armies to remain competitive.

Exactly. That is why everyone must get two boxes of Mutilators, a Forgefiend and three Nephilims to be competitive today... Oh, wait...

TheRaven
12-02-2013, 20:05
I traded in my preordered Nephilim for a predator......

If this "Skies" expansion would have given more flyers across the chapters (Which other than the storm raven to Vanilla and Templar it sounds like they won't) there would have been a mass surge of flyer purchases. Seems like GW missed a trick with the DA and vanilla flyers:

"Here are new DA specific flyers..... OMG must buy.... oh the rules are crap....."

"Now 1.5 months later you can have the other flyers that don't suck and are playable!... OMG I'll buy some of that!!!"

I still think this expansion would be one of the bigger ripoffs GW has released. Really not much in there.

Also.... if GW really does release another flyer wave in the next month or 2, don't you think that's kind of a **** off to have an expansion book for updated flyer rules get released and then have another batch of rules that again in the next month or 2?????

BramGaunt
12-02-2013, 20:45
The updated Flyer rules are only for entries which were no fliers prior to 6th, or fliers that were released in no longer available media. It's for the people who want to field Storm talons and Ork Fliers who missed that WD. It's also a 'vanity' item for people who don't want to have Print-outs of Errata with patchwok entries in their Codex book. It's a vanity item. Like the whole hobby.

Kloud13
12-02-2013, 21:26
My optimisim that it is coming this weekend is dropping fast. Anybody heard anything? Just seems that our regular rumour sources are adamant about this weekend.

BramGaunt
12-02-2013, 22:19
I can confirm the book for this weekend. 100% sure. No models to accompany it. Direct only, so if you expect to get one walkinginto your local shop, you'll be disappointed. Also, stores do not get a preview copy. If you want to have a look in it, you have to actually buy it, or go to see someone who has it.

Avian
12-02-2013, 22:30
I can confirm the book for this weekend. 100% sure. No models to accompany it. Direct only, so if you expect to get one walkinginto your local shop, you'll be disappointed. Also, stores do not get a preview copy. If you want to have a look in it, you have to actually buy it, or go to see someone who has it.
Wait, so people won't actually be able to get it on release day*, since there is no pre-order and you can't buy it in the stores?

This seems somewhat like a willed failure. It wasn't exactly aimed at a broad market to begin with and they're doing nothing at all to generate sales.

Oh well. Bring on the Daemons!

* other than at Warhammer World, I guess

Gazak Blacktoof
12-02-2013, 22:33
If this "Skies" expansion would have given more flyers across the chapters (Which other than the storm raven to Vanilla and Templar it sounds like they won't) there would have been a mass surge of flyer purchases. Seems like GW missed a trick with the DA and vanilla flyers:

Well I, and I lot of other players, will be very relieved that isn't going to happen.

There would be nothing worse than rules tweaks being released to directly drive an increase in purchases of particular models.

Rules tweaks should be about improving the gaming experience. If the knock on effect is increased sales, then all well and good for GW and its shareholders. But the background and rules shouldn't be lead by the sales department.

Inquisitor Samos
13-02-2013, 03:21
Yeah, I mean just look at the Nephelim/Dark Talon! The most expensive kit in the new Dark Angels line and every kid in school has at least 4 of them because they're so OP!
You get a One-Up for proper ironic sarcasm. :yes:



Wait, so people won't actually be able to get it on release day*, since there is no pre-order and you can't buy it in the stores?

This seems somewhat like a willed failure. It wasn't exactly aimed at a broad market to begin with and they're doing nothing at all to generate sales.

Oh well. Bring on the Daemons!

* other than at Warhammer World, I guess
I can't help but agree with this sentiment . . . . which therefore leads me to still want to take everything about this rumor with a good-size grain of salt. The only way this would make any sense to me is if they're hoping to drive primarily digital-media-version sales . . . and that'd be nonsense of another kind.

Yes - definitely with a large grain of salt.

MajorWesJanson
13-02-2013, 03:35
You get a One-Up for proper ironic sarcasm. :yes:



I can't help but agree with this sentiment . . . . which therefore leads me to still want to take everything about this rumor with a good-size grain of salt. The only way this would make any sense to me is if they're hoping to drive primarily digital-media-version sales . . . and that'd be nonsense of another kind.

Yes - definitely with a large grain of salt.

It's not meant to drive sales for once, it is a way to address the problem of certain rules being out of print with people requesting them.

The Dude
13-02-2013, 04:01
A very silly way of addressing it, but a way, nonetheless.

Azzy
13-02-2013, 06:17
A very silly way of addressing it, but a way, nonetheless.

'Tis a silly company.

It's kind of disappointing, really, this would've been a perfect chance to do much more.

Thuggrim
13-02-2013, 06:31
I can confirm the book for this weekend. 100% sure. No models to accompany it. Direct only, so if you expect to get one walkinginto your local shop, you'll be disappointed. Also, stores do not get a preview copy. If you want to have a look in it, you have to actually buy it, or go to see someone who has it.

I wonder is that to stop you viewing it before you buy - I smell another lack of confidence in a product, or maybe it is that crap they know it won't be brought if you read it.

I could of course be wrong, it maybe amazing. Still I remember when GW would happily let you and encourage viewing the product and making an educated purchase as they knew/believed their product was that good you'd want it.

On a separate topic, I heard a rumour from a friend - accuracy completely unknown so add salt as required - the mystery box this year is bloodbowl and its already been printed was pulled from last year due to Dreadball. Not sure I believe it myself but thought I'd throw it out there.

MajorWesJanson
13-02-2013, 07:05
On a separate topic, I heard a rumour from a friend - accuracy completely unknown so add salt as required - the mystery box this year is bloodbowl and its already been printed was pulled from last year due to Dreadball. Not sure I believe it myself but thought I'd throw it out there.

Pulled due to Dreadball? Hah. That's pretty funny. The reason there was no Bloodbowl last year was that not only did we get the new Warhammer 6th Starter, we also got a Hobbit starter, putting us one box set over establishment.

Archibald_TK
13-02-2013, 13:00
One of the reasons that book's distribution appears so limited and not translated may be that GW currently lacks the capabilities to produce them in large numbers on top of the regular releases.

Now hear me out before screaming that what I'm saying makes no sense. At some point last month I was unable to order UK Chaos SM Codexes as they were out of print, now the UK one is back but it has been two weeks that I've been unable to order the same Codex in my language as it is also out of print. I have no memory of being in the same situation in recent years, Army Books and Codexes usually tend to be widely available and never out of stock. Maybe it means nothing and we've just always been lucky to never need a book at the same time it was unavailable before, but it can also be a hint that something is wrong with their current production rate.

In addition, I don't know if they use the same printers for their BL books, but these past months the translated ones were always unavailable at the time of their expected release and a few weeks late.

Hokiecow
13-02-2013, 13:55
Would it have anything to do with the move to hardcover books? Did the change their printers at the same time they went to hardcover?

Konovalev
13-02-2013, 14:22
One of the reasons that book's distribution appears so limited and not translated may be that GW currently lacks the capabilities to produce them in large numbers on top of the regular releases.

Now hear me out before screaming that what I'm saying makes no sense. At some point last month I was unable to order UK Chaos SM Codexes as they were out of print, now the UK one is back but it has been two weeks that I've been unable to order the same Codex in my language as it is also out of print. I have no memory of being in the same situation in recent years, Army Books and Codexes usually tend to be widely available and never out of stock. Maybe it means nothing and we've just always been lucky to never need a book at the same time it was unavailable before, but it can also be a hint that something is wrong with their current production rate.

In addition, I don't know if they use the same printers for their BL books, but these past months the translated ones were always unavailable at the time of their expected release and a few weeks late.

I wonder if it might be because they are correcting all those errors in the Chaos codex for a 2nd edition like 3ED Necrons had? Though corrections is one of the things the iCodicis have going for them so that would probably hurt sales of those.

DoctorTom
13-02-2013, 15:10
'Tis a silly company.

It's kind of disappointing, really, this would've been a perfect chance to do much more.

They could have skipped Crusade of Fire and put this in that's release slot instead and given it a better distribution. Having CoF already released just a couple of months before is a disincentive for people wanting to get this book. If it took CoF's place they could have given it the hardback treatment and probably pulled in at least as much money as CoF did. Now, you have people feeling burned over CoF and seeing the company wanting to brazenly double dip very quickly.

The Dude
14-02-2013, 02:09
Any more discussion on the viability of existing Flyers, or how to potentially "fix" them will see this thread closed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

Royals
14-02-2013, 12:52
I'll probably pick this book up. I bought Crusade of Fire and was happy with my purchase. Plus, it will be nice to have all of the reference material at my disposal. There is something nice about being able to hold a book in my hands as well instead of having to look over PDFs.

Daigar
14-02-2013, 13:26
One of the reasons that book's distribution appears so limited and not translated may be that GW currently lacks the capabilities to produce them in large numbers on top of the regular releases.

Now hear me out before screaming that what I'm saying makes no sense. At some point last month I was unable to order UK Chaos SM Codexes as they were out of print, now the UK one is back but it has been two weeks that I've been unable to order the same Codex in my language as it is also out of print. I have no memory of being in the same situation in recent years, Army Books and Codexes usually tend to be widely available and never out of stock. Maybe it means nothing and we've just always been lucky to never need a book at the same time it was unavailable before, but it can also be a hint that something is wrong with their current production rate.

In addition, I don't know if they use the same printers for their BL books, but these past months the translated ones were always unavailable at the time of their expected release and a few weeks late.

And the secret of how GW is actually making profit with these prices comes to light! They might have fired some of their printers to cut costs.

Lester
14-02-2013, 13:37
I hope this book doesn't sell out until Daemon preorders are up. I don't want to pay shipping for just this book when I can get it alongside stuff I want from the new Daemons and qualify for GW's free shipping.

DarkWarrior1981
14-02-2013, 14:54
As the book is not supposed to be a limited stock item the chances are very high you will get the book alongside the daemons. :) It might be temporarily out of stock once in a while, though.

The Dude
14-02-2013, 23:19
My local GW just posted the following on their Facebook page:


...tomorrow heralds Saturday, which will see a super secret Direct Only release being available. The only thing I can tell you is it is a limited item...

So, there's that. Unless this is some filthy Square-Base thing I've not read the rumour for.

Lester
15-02-2013, 01:48
My local GW just posted the following on their Facebook page:



So, there's that. Unless this is some filthy Square-Base thing I've not read the rumour for.
Limited? What the frack GW...I don't want to spend on shipping just for this when next week Daemons may drop....

Hendarion
15-02-2013, 06:03
GW at its best - releasing a rule summary book that includes some rules which are only available via sold out WD as limited release. Sometimes I wonder what's going on in their heads? Clowns and Circus I assume, Clowns and Circus.

MajorWesJanson
15-02-2013, 06:32
GW at its best - releasing a rule summary book that includes some rules which are only available via sold out WD as limited release. Sometimes I wonder what's going on in their heads? Clowns and Circus I assume, Clowns and Circus.

By limited release, I assume just one print run. If it is large enough, it should be fine.

The Dude
15-02-2013, 06:36
It's also entirely possible my local GW got their wires crossed in their FB post, but knowing the guy who posted it, not likely.

MajorWesJanson
15-02-2013, 07:26
Dreadfleet was limited too, but there were no problems getting a copy of it long after release, were there?

Wise Guy Sam
15-02-2013, 07:34
Dreadfleet was limited too, but there were no problems getting a copy of it long after release, were there?

It's not really the point though. The fact that this book is seemingly in existence Is to add rules that were limited and WD only, you would think releasing the rules in a limited fashion is only going to help some people.

Let's say someone next year decides he'll play Orks and wants a flyer, he either has to track down a limited WD or a limited source book probably sold out by then (or by devious means).

Chrysalis
15-02-2013, 07:42
It's not really the point though. The fact that this book is seemingly in existence Is to add rules that were limited and WD only, you would think releasing the rules in a limited fashion is only going to help some people.

Let's say someone next year decides he'll play Orks and wants a flyer, he either has to track down a limited WD or a limited source book probably sold out by then (or by devious means).

More than one year later, it's still easy to find Dreadfleet boxes. It'll be the same here.

As an Eldar player, I'd like to point that this book will remain a mystery to me - and of course, I'll never buy it...

Gonefishing
15-02-2013, 07:59
Dreadfleet was limited too, but there were no problems getting a copy of it long after release, were there?

Isnt that more to do with the fact no one bought it / wanted it? Think Spacehulk was the limited release the year before Dreadfleet and that sold out pretty damn quickly.

theJ
15-02-2013, 08:11
Limited? What the frack GW...I don't want to spend on shipping just for this when next week Daemons may drop....

Ah, but you don't need to pay shipping if your order is large enough. How about a shiny new flyer? :evilgrin:

Chrysalis
15-02-2013, 08:12
Isnt that more to do with the fact no one bought it / wanted it? Think Spacehulk was the limited release the year before Dreadfleet and that sold out pretty damn quickly.

Which implies the following question: who will buy Death from the Skies???

Because of the lack of (new) content, GW obviously alienated a considerable bunch of players. I'm pretty sure it will follow the path of Dreadfleet...

eldargal
15-02-2013, 08:25
If it has rules for Dark Eldar ace pilots and something more than just the rest of the Crusade of Fire rules I'll buy it.

Krucifus
15-02-2013, 09:30
Direct only, so unlike people online who might have a hint of what's in it, everyone else will see "Death from the skies: a Flyer supplement" and order it instantly, thinking their flyer rules are going to get updated.

Where as if it was sold in store, customers could look through it, laugh very loudly that there is nothing new in here whatsoever, then leave it on the shelf where it belongs.

The Dude
15-02-2013, 10:01
everyone else will see "Death from the skies: a Flyer supplement"

Except that's not what they'll see, because its called "Death From The Skies: a Warhammer 40,000 Compendium" which indicates a collection of existing material.

Plus it will no doubt have a full description that (assuming GW don't lie) makes it clear what's in it.

Nogginthenog
15-02-2013, 10:08
Whilst I think the limited part is ridiculous short termism that stops the book from actually addressing the issue it exists for, and thats the unobtainable rules for models they sell , I can understand why they do it.

DA codex, limited edition, £80 , sold out in less than a day. A book that was available at less than half the price with a different cover , and one that needed an faq 4 days after it went on sale.

As long as people make that happen, they will keep sticking limited on the releases.

Mauler
15-02-2013, 10:21
The bottom line is: we won't really know what's in it until it's released. Makes it kinda hard to evaluate at the moment.

Lath-rael
15-02-2013, 11:20
I will give a good laugh if it gets FAQ'ed within few weeks after it gets published :)

Nothing new, now with nothing right, also limited :rolleyes:

Lath-rael
15-02-2013, 11:22
Except that's not what they'll see, because its called "Death From The Skies: a Warhammer 40,000 Compendium" which indicates a collection of existing material.

Plus it will no doubt have a full description that (assuming GW don't lie) makes it clear what's in it.

They do. They lied (or mistaken, still it wasn't right) about unit stats at description more than few times. I counted 4 at dark eldar release.

The Dude
15-02-2013, 12:56
They do. They lied (or mistaken, still it wasn't right) about unit stats at description more than few times. I counted 4 at dark eldar release.

...

I'm not sure that's quite the same thing.

Those units had product descriptions that accurately described the kit, did they not?

Spiney Norman
15-02-2013, 14:18
Do we know if they're going to release an electronic version of the flyer book or not? It would be kind of dumb not to since it basically costs them nothing to do.

Theocracity
15-02-2013, 14:39
Do we know if they're going to release an electronic version of the flyer book or not? It would be kind of dumb not to since it basically costs them nothing to do.

Since GW does not release their iPad books in the form of a scanned PDF, that's demonstrably not true. Believe it or not it takes time and money to produce electronic resources - or do you think websites spring fully formed from the head of marketers?

As for the worries of a limited release - I'm pretty sure that by the time this book is difficult to find, all of the codexes who've had White Dwarf flyers will have had a codex release with the flyer in it, making this pointless to reprint (short of fun flyer rules they might add in).

DoggNewTrix
15-02-2013, 14:40
Though I have no solid info, I would be Shocked if they released it without a digital option. That's GW's new baby they Isellcrapstore....

Kloud13
15-02-2013, 14:56
The last page of this Compendium will read, "Sucked to have to buy this didn't it? Now go buy an Ipad."

Spiney Norman
15-02-2013, 15:06
Since GW does not release their iPad books in the form of a scanned PDF, that's demonstrably not true. Believe it or not it takes time and money to produce electronic resources - or do you think websites spring fully formed from the head of marketers?

As for the worries of a limited release - I'm pretty sure that by the time this book is difficult to find, all of the codexes who've had White Dwarf flyers will have had a codex release with the flyer in it, making this pointless to reprint (short of fun flyer rules they might add in).

Full marks for taking my comments totally out of context, what I meant was "limited edition" can't really apply to en electronic version because it has no costs associated with it beyond the initial conversion, no material costs, no production costs and no distribution costs.

Damocles8
15-02-2013, 15:40
Since GW does not release their iPad books in the form of a scanned PDF, that's demonstrably not true. Believe it or not it takes time and money to produce electronic resources - or do you think websites spring fully formed from the head of marketers?

As for the worries of a limited release - I'm pretty sure that by the time this book is difficult to find, all of the codexes who've had White Dwarf flyers will have had a codex release with the flyer in it, making this pointless to reprint (short of fun flyer rules they might add in).

No doubt that they have a software template by now. The materiels and distribution costs are WAY down compared to a printed book, charging the same for both is beyond silly.

Inquisitor Kallus
15-02-2013, 15:50
Since GW does not release their iPad books in the form of a scanned PDF, that's demonstrably not true. Believe it or not it takes time and money to produce electronic resources - or do you think websites spring fully formed from the head of marketers?

As for the worries of a limited release - I'm pretty sure that by the time this book is difficult to find, all of the codexes who've had White Dwarf flyers will have had a codex release with the flyer in it, making this pointless to reprint (short of fun flyer rules they might add in).



They have the core of it as its all on computer anyway, just change round and edit a few things. Its not exactly the same as writing a whole new book, just editing for ipad use.

Lath-rael
15-02-2013, 15:59
...

I'm not sure that's quite the same thing.

Those units had product descriptions that accurately described the kit, did they not?

The game (including the rules) is also one of their products.

It wasn't just a typo, here's two of them; one of them saying ravager could transport troops and the other was mandrakes having strength AND toughtness of 4 when introducing units.

Aryllon
15-02-2013, 16:07
The materiels and distribution costs are WAY down compared to a printed book, charging the same for both is beyond silly.

Well, except that the initial development costs are higher for digital vs. print versions, and digital versions of the Codices (and WD) are different to the print versions anyway (extra content, including video & larger scale high-res photos & art, plus interactive page content)... I would quite happily pay more for digital content than printed. And that's just for the quality of the production, before you consider it also can't get torn, damaged, lost, stolen, rendered inaccurate via FAQs etc.


They have the core of it as its all on computer anyway, just change round and edit a few things. Its not exactly the same as writing a whole new book, just editing for ipad use.

Neither is producing a hard copy the same as writing a whole new book, it's just editing for print.
The book is written once, the cost of which is independent of production. The production processes used to turn that book into print and digital copies are additional costs attributed solely to each media channel. The former's costs are low re: formatting, but potentially high in material (volume dependent). The latter has higher formatting but lower material cost.


It wasn't just a typo, here's two of them; one of them saying ravager could transport troops and the other was mandrakes having strength AND toughtness of 4 when introducing units.

That's not a lie, that's a mistake.

Lath-rael
15-02-2013, 16:29
That's not a lie, that's a mistake.

Of course, and i already said that it can be a mistake, but it's chances of being "clever" marketing also equally exist.

Fable
15-02-2013, 16:31
They have the core of it as its all on computer anyway, just change round and edit a few things. Its not exactly the same as writing a whole new book, just editing for ipad use.

Except it's been noted that the Ipad versions of books have far greater additional content, especially in the fluff sections.

That said I have my doubts that this will be in the iStore at any point because the rules for the SM flyers are available and updated in the SM codex and the ork rules are available seperately. The only real draw would be the CoF rules, but they may make that available digitally in and of itself.

Starchild
15-02-2013, 17:16
Except it's been noted that the Ipad versions of books have far greater additional content, especially in the fluff sections.

Wait, what? Sorry for the slight off-topic aside but the only additional content I've seen is the 360 degree views and the occasional extra photo.

Theocracity
15-02-2013, 18:16
Well, except that the initial development costs are higher for digital vs. print versions, and digital versions of the Codices (and WD) are different to the print versions anyway (extra content, including video & larger scale high-res photos & art, plus interactive page content)... I would quite happily pay more for digital content than printed. And that's just for the quality of the production, before you consider it also can't get torn, damaged, lost, stolen, rendered inaccurate via FAQs etc

Neither is producing a hard copy the same as writing a whole new book, it's just editing for print.
The book is written once, the cost of which is independent of production. The production processes used to turn that book into print and digital copies are additional costs attributed solely to each media channel. The former's costs are low re: formatting, but potentially high in material (volume dependent). The latter has higher formatting but lower material cost.


Well said, that's precisely what I meant.

Sorry for coming off as snippy, Spiney, but I see a lot of 'digital content is no work and cheap' comments that annoy me as someone whose job is related to digital content :).

RevEv
15-02-2013, 18:29
Ok - I've been following this thread for a while and have now had enough of the negativity that seems to be creeping in to people's responses.

GW are releasing a compendium of previously released material - so what! It's something they have done before and something they will do again! You are not being forced to buy the darned thing - in fact you have the free choice to ignore it completely if you want to. You could even buy it as a group and use what you want from it.

Sheesh. This is just a hobby that you buy in to as an option in life! Why are people getting so het up about something that, at the end of the day, is of no consequence in the wider scheme of things.

I know that there will be many that will be upset at a comment like this! I'm sorry! I will be buying this compendium if it is released tomorrow! Why? Because in the whole scheme of things in my life at the moment it's a bit of light relief in a very stressful time!

Enjoy life folks, there's a lot more to challenge us than GW trying to make a buck or two out of a hobby we obviously all care about passionately else we wouldn't be posting here!

Azzy
15-02-2013, 21:14
Since GW does not release their iPad books in the form of a scanned PDF, that's demonstrably not true. Believe it or not it takes time and money to produce electronic resources - or do you think websites spring fully formed from the head of marketers?
Well, Athena's website did...

;)

Theocracity
15-02-2013, 21:38
Well, Athena's website did...

;)

Heh, glad you got my reference :).

Seriously though, if you think about it, by 2014 there will in all likelihood be codexes for Orks and Marines - rendering this book mostly useless except for the integrated FAQs and any extra fun stuff. It's a convenience item, done on the cheap with a limited run so they can focus their efforts on codex work without stranding people who lack WDs. No need to get worked up about it.

The Dude
15-02-2013, 23:17
Local GW have announced it on their FB page, but still waiting for it to appear on the site. They have gone back on their previous statement of Limited, and said "when the warehouse runs out, you'll have to wait for more" which is what we all expected.

EDIT: just noticed they edited the bit out of their previous post about it being Limited :p

Spiney Norman
15-02-2013, 23:25
Well, except that the initial development costs are higher for digital vs. print versions, and digital versions of the Codices (and WD) are different to the print versions anyway (extra content, including video & larger scale high-res photos & art, plus interactive page content)... I would quite happily pay more for digital content than printed. And that's just for the quality of the production, before you consider it also can't get torn, damaged, lost, stolen, rendered inaccurate via FAQs etc.


In a sense that's true, but if your device malfunctions or breaks then you've got to fork out another £400+ to access your digital codex, and iPads are far from indestructible, I doubt that I'm more likely to destroy a hard back book than I am an iPad.

The Dude
15-02-2013, 23:35
Can we not get sidetracked into the benefits/drawbacks of digital releases?

The Dude
The Warseer Inquisition

Kijamon
15-02-2013, 23:54
All uo now. Squadron boxed sets too

The Dude
15-02-2013, 23:55
It's up: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod1950012a



Death From The Skies
Death from the Skies brings the white-knuckle intensity of aerial combat in the 41st Millennium to your tabletop, featuring selected material from White Dwarf magazine, the Crusade of Fire supplement and exclusive new content. Exclusively available from games-workshop.com, this 72-page, full colour softback compendium book is crammed with background information, gaming ideas and hobby inspiration to help you bring the battle for air superiority to life.

It includes: a detailed account of the Battle for Cardrim, featuring White Scars Space Marines, Necrons and Orks locked in a deadly battle for control of a vital airfield; four new Air War missions that showcase the lightning-fast nature of aerial warfare; optional rules for dogfighting and veteran fighter aces for your Warhammer 40,000 games; and a showcase of beautifully painted Flyers from the 'Eavy Metal collection.

There are rules for using the Stormraven Gunship with a Codex: Space Marines and Black Templars army; updated rules for the range of Warhammer 40,000 Flyer models, including new bestiary and army list entries for the following codexes: Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks and Space Marines.

Please note: Death from the Skies is available in English language only.

Availability: This product is available for Advance Order. Release Date Information. Part Code: 60040199031

Squadron bundles:

Flight of the Valkyries - 2 Valkyries and 2 Kasrkin squads

Stormraven Domination Force - Stormraven, Tactical squad, Dreadnaught

Burning Skies - 2 Heldrakes

Caliban's Wrath - 2 Nephilim/Dark Talons

Skyhammer Squadron - 3 Stormtalons (description also calls this the Stormstrike Squadron)

Razorwing Murder Squadron - 3 Razorwings

Da Fly Boyz - 3 Ork Fliers

Necron Annihilation Wing - 2 'scythes

Azzy
16-02-2013, 00:12
Heh, glad you got my reference :).
Yeah, I'm a greek like that.:D


Local GW have announced it on their FB page, but still waiting for it to appear on the site. They have gone back on their previous statement of Limited, and said "when the warehouse runs out, you'll have to wait for more" which is what we all expected.

EDIT: just noticed they edited the bit out of their previous post about it being Limited :p

Good. That makes a lot more sense.

Also, new material? Can it be so? Even better.

However, no discount on the bundles... How very typical.

Angry SisterOfBattle Nerd
16-02-2013, 00:26
So, a White Dwarf compendium without the Sisters' list. Because nobody needs that, right ?

Starchild
16-02-2013, 00:30
Apparently GW is doing incremental price adjustments for new releases instead of increasing the price of their entire ranges all at once.

Compare the two Dark Talon bundle to the two Nightscythe bundle... :wtf:

I dunno, this book and these bundles are not getting me excited at all. I'll pass on this. :eyebrows:

gilljoy
16-02-2013, 00:38
Apparently GW is doing incremental price adjustments for new releases instead of increasing the price of their entire ranges all at once.

Compare the two Dark Talon bundle to the two Nightscythe bundle... :wtf:

I dunno, this book and these bundles are not getting me excited at all. I'll pass on this. :eyebrows:

Wow thats some difference in price. How similar in size are the models? / Number of sprues? I'm not trying to justify the prices just curious

Gen.RifulasDykes
16-02-2013, 00:38
I wonder if the person/people who claimed the picture looks like some badly photoshopped hoax are going to be eating hats now, or if that just indicators a rather lazy cover art piece for this. xP

TheRaven
16-02-2013, 00:47
Am I the only one insulted buy the whole "bundles" for no price change. Like they think they're going to fool us. So what if we weren't going to buy 3 of your product at once well change our minds now cane we can buy three in one click. Do they really think those 2 extra "add to cart" clicks turn us off??.?.

I can't think of any company that could come out and say "buy x of our product for the exact same price" and not get laughed at. Does not instill confidence in management. Sad release day.

Also why the direct order only? Are they worried people will open the book and realize there's frack all in it if they put it in stores.

Azzy
16-02-2013, 00:50
What I wonder is if we'll get a new round of errata when this is released. (No, not because this will have errors, though it probably will, but because there may be additional errata for the fliers that may be covered in this, but are not yet in the current FAQs.)


So, a White Dwarf compendium without the Sisters' list. Because nobody needs that, right ?

Correct. What they DO need is a REAL codex and a full range of plastic miniatures.


Am I the only one insulted buy the whole "bundles" for no price change. Like they think they're going to fool us. So what if we weren't going to buy 3 of your product at once well change our minds now cane we can buy three in one click. Do they really think those 2 extra "add to cart" clicks turn us off??.?.

I can't think of any company that could come out and say "buy x of our product for the exact same price" and not get laughed at. Does not instill confidence in management. Sad release day.

No, I'm too numb to this being typical of GW to actually be insulted.

atlantis
16-02-2013, 01:03
seeing the release if this i am deeply disapointed in GW, the stormraven was created for the BA and Gk to use, the storm tallon for the regular marines.

Mandragola
16-02-2013, 01:04
The price of the Nephilim/Dark talon is curious, as it is just a 2-sprue model with exactly the same amount of plastic as you get with a storm talon. The ork plane has considerably more stuff on there.

I've heard it explained that the pricing structure in part reflects the points value of the model, and not just how big it is. So since Nephilims are horribly overpriced, you pay £45 for one while the straightforwardly better night scythe costs £27.50, because it's under-priced in game!

I'll be interested to see what slot the stormraven fills for marines and BT. If it's heavy then marines will have their own flyer spam list option, with the ability to have talons escort ravens. Hardly a killer list but something new to consider.

Robbie_1984
16-02-2013, 01:13
The price of the Nephilim/Dark talon is curious, as it is just a 2-sprue model with exactly the same amount of plastic as you get with a storm talon. The ork plane has considerably more stuff on there.

I've heard it explained that the pricing structure in part reflects the points value of the model, and not just how big it is. So since Nephilims are horribly overpriced, you pay £45 for one while the straightforwardly better night scythe costs £27.50, because it's under-priced in game!

I'll be interested to see what slot the stormraven fills for marines and BT. If it's heavy then marines will have their own flyer spam list option, with the ability to have talons escort ravens. Hardly a killer list but something new to consider.

They#re listed on the site in the armies heavy sections...

MajorWesJanson
16-02-2013, 01:22
Besides the price, I could see myself getting quite a few of the bundles- Valks plus Kasrkin, Storm Peeps, Dakkajets, and Razorwings all appeal to me. I wonder if these formations are potentially the basis for the rumored fighter squadron formations in Apoc II?

Rogue Star
16-02-2013, 01:23
So... what happened to the whole "Blood Angels domination of the skies" thing with the Stormraven, considering now the Codex Chapters get it, plus the 'talon? :p

SilentSnake
16-02-2013, 01:24
Yep heavy support stormravens for codex marines and no fast attack entry storm talons for BA, sad face

MajorWesJanson
16-02-2013, 01:24
Huh, just noticed that they painted up an Ultramarines Storm Raven. Looks a lot better than the BA one for some reason.

How many people would really take a Storm Peep in a BA list when you can take Baal Predators?

dangerboyjim
16-02-2013, 01:27
Am I the only one insulted buy the whole "bundles" for no price change. Like they think they're going to fool us. So what if we weren't going to buy 3 of your product at once well change our minds now cane we can buy three in one click. Do they really think those 2 extra "add to cart" clicks turn us off??.?.

I can't think of any company that could come out and say "buy x of our product for the exact same price" and not get laughed at. Does not instill confidence in management. Sad release day.

Also why the direct order only? Are they worried people will open the book and realize there's frack all in it if they put it in stores.

I'm not insulted, but really what is the point of these 'bundles'? If there was a discount for buying three, I would buy three, since there is no discount, I might as well wait until I need one, and buy one at a time.

I really have absolutely no incentive to buy 3 at a time.


And also I was one of the doubters about that front cover. Still cannot believe how bad that is. Look at it! It's rubbish!

Lezta
16-02-2013, 01:30
Aside from bundles that aren't any saving at all being utterly pointless (and very misleading) I wonder why BA didn't get the Storm Talon and why SW got... nothing? Surely an opportunity to sell models is a good thing? Space Wolves must be years off and surely they can't be thinking of giving them their own flyer?

MajorWesJanson
16-02-2013, 01:35
Aside from bundles that aren't any saving at all being utterly pointless (and very misleading) I wonder why BA didn't get the Storm Talon and why SW got... nothing? Surely an opportunity to sell models is a good thing? Space Wolves must be years off and surely they can't be thinking of giving them their own flyer?

BA and Space wolves both sell rather well IIRC, and don't really need a boost. The Storm Raven is rather expensive, so expanding it's availability helps, and letting Codex: SM and BT get it helps those two books, which are the oldest 2 among the Astartes books now. Letting the vanilla SM get both the Storm Peep and Storm Raven also gives them a bit more of a unique feel, as they are the only book now that can take both, which also fits that they cover the widest variety of chapters.

drear
16-02-2013, 01:41
the escort rule makes more sense now, you can escort a flier with a flier, rather than trying to ally into blood angels to do so.
templars get a boost in that they have a huge flying assault vehical to unleash their combat nonsense.

im happy,because i bought a stormraven on release and have useed it once with a blood angel army..now i can repaint it and get more use as a marine army..

atlantis
16-02-2013, 01:41
intresting thing his is the fact stormravens in the GK are now heavy, leaving them with only 1 fast option, thought GW wanted at least 2 options per slot.

with the BT getting the raven i cant ake that, it fits there style of transports (heavy armour gun plactforms) i just fell they are stripping away parts of the other marine's by opening it up to the main codex, especially when they already have a lot of things over the others. as for wolves, just rember they like to have there feet on the ground mostly

Mandragola
16-02-2013, 01:51
as for wolves, just rember they like to have there feet on the ground mostly

Right, but supposedly they need a way to get their feet on the ground in the first place, given that they arrive on space ships. A storm raven would provide quite a good way to achieve this. Most people are going by the assumption that all armies will eventually get some kind of flyer. I'd have given wolves storm talons, rather than ravens, as I agree they might not want to use flying transports but they obviously would have air cover.

I do agree it's an interesting change for GKs to get SRs as heavy, if that's really what they are doing. It's actually quite a heavy nerf for them as GK heavy slots are already very full.

Azzy
16-02-2013, 01:59
So... what happened to the whole "Blood Angels domination of the skies" thing with the Stormraven, considering now the Codex Chapters get it, plus the 'talon? :p

Prepare for Death from the Skies II, in which Codex Chapters also gain access to Dark Talons and Nephilim as well and BA, GK & DA all get nothing new.

MagicHat
16-02-2013, 02:02
So the Stormraven is armed with stormstrike missiles. Surprised that BT didn't get specific missiles.
Also, I hadn't realized the crazy cost of the DA fliers yet.