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View Full Version : Could a Human wear and utilize Eldar Armor?



Hell's Angel
31-01-2013, 01:57
I'm aware that normally a bonesinger is responsible for all Wraithbone constructs. In my Dark Heresy game my party have got a hold of some golden/dark age tech. Specifically they have a nanite 3d printer capable of breaking down items (to store patterns) and then rebuild them. The party also has a Telepathic master (Psyker) and have requested to breakdown the Wraithbone and have the printer in combination with the Psyker rebuild the pattern to human specifications. If a Psychoactive material like Wraithbone were broken down, and rebuild using a human Psyker to mold it, would the material afterwards react to a human's thought pattern? I cant think of any examples in the game where humans are wearing Eldar Armor, but I'm not sure if its just because of the horrible Heresy involved in the matter...

chromedog
31-01-2013, 02:20
It's old fluff, but it still stands. One of Ian Watson's Inquisition war novels mentions the assassin meh'lindi donning Eldar aspect armour and attempting to impersonate one.
This was written post 1990 adoption of the path system into 40k, but is otherwise old and past its use-by date though.

ForgottenLore
31-01-2013, 03:33
I don't know about official sources, but my own gut instinct is that the machine could only get something approximating wraithbone,not be exact. That it requires specific psychic skill to properly shape the stuff, not just raw power, so a human psyker might be capable of manipulating wraithbone but would have no idea how to actually get it into the shapes he wanted, like a rank amateur trying to do pottery, he might manage to get something vaguely resembling a bowl, but he isn't going to make a ming vase. I also suspect that a human actually wearing eldar armor would need to be a psyker himself to get full benefits from it. I do think that at least pieces of real eldar armor could be worn by humans and provide SOME benefit, just far below its potential, and that your replicator machine could probably create something that looked like eldar armor and that provided a reasonable level of protection, even if it didn't really function like the real thing, and any Eldar would probably spot it as a fake in an instant.

Is Eldar armor even made of wraithbone? I would have thought it was made of some lesser psycho-plastic.

Hellebore
31-01-2013, 04:06
Wraithbone is basically congealed warp energy, so not sure if a mundane machine could deal with the physics defying nature of the material. Forgottenlore has a point though that although wraithbone is the most famous eldar material, it's not the most commonly used. Their armour isn't all wraithbone.

Hellebore

Hell's Angel
31-01-2013, 04:23
The armor has Wraithbone components in it. The players slaughtered a small garrison of Dark Eldar. Then they stripped them and brought all the Armor/weapons back to their base. The nanite printer has been functioning by them adding materials in to be atomized and rebuilt (ala buckypaper.) They know from trying that the atoms wont stick together without psychic energy, so when the printer lays down the pattern the Psyker compels them to bond. He isn't forming the armor (like you implied he is no bonesinger) the machine is doing it. I have allowed it by implementing a rule which incurs a cost of a wound/sanity/& corruption for the bonding ritual... (Which is in its self hard to complete.) I was really wondering IF the armor would work at all, as Eldar Armor needs a mental connection to its wearer to 'function.' Like Corn Starch and water it will harden when struck if mentally commanded to do so, otherwise I believe it could/would let arms-fire penetrate it quite easily...
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Wraithbone

Hell's Angel
31-01-2013, 04:42
Of course all this is my fault. They found a metalman and repaired the damn thing. It in turn was able to help along a plot device (transportation) but as with everything unforeseen consequences would result. I never expected them to try to Commander Data the damn thing, and regardless of the ethics of some of the AI's experiments they never turned on it. (Even after it reprogrammed the Techpriest via his Cortex Implants...) Here was the box text of his 'arrival' into the party as an NPC and my 'creation' of the wonderous 3d printer...

I have in my files data from the earliest Moorian clock. Data that existed before what you call "The Dark Age of Technology." We did not first have bipedal form, we were tethered to clothing and items meant to help the makers process information more effectively. Our computing purpose was first described as "enhanced reality." Something that was akin to programmed intuition... Being confined primarily to data tablets at this early phase would later cause historians to regard us as "The Men of Stone." This is faulty historical reporting caused by a translation mistake... No, it has always been us, the AI. Regardless of our humble beginnings though, our function never changed. We were the programs used to crunch the rawest data, or the apps used to process information deemed too mundane by our makers. Human society predicted our coming as "the singularity." They needn't have feared us. We helped cure all disease, and worked on the genetic manipulation that would later be aped into the development of "Space Marines." As eons past our forms changed to mirror that of our creators (as it was claimed by religion that mankind had been developed in their own God's image.) In every way we were made to be superior than our creators. I mean no malice when I make this claim. My body has lasted 12,000 years and my memory over 38,000 (I have learned long ago that exact numbers can irritate humans.)

When it became possible to explore the universe we were mankind's probes. This job too was deemed unsuitable by our parents for them to do, and thus we were assigned to do it. This was before the volatile and destructive nature of the warp was known. Mankind used to refer to the Immaterium as hyperspace, and traveling through it was via a "5th dimensional corridor." It was during this exploration phase that the the first Xenos were discovered. Mankind worked to incorporate friendly/non-hostile Xenos into a loose Federation of Species. Knowledge was shared and each civilization benefited from the other. Hostile Xenos were crushed but not utterly destroyed for mankind believed it was hubris to completely annihilate other species. (This philosophy had developed out of the man-made mass extinctions of Terra in ME 2-3.) Regardless of mankind's altruistic beliefs though, we became it's soldiers and defenders. Yet another job unfit for man. Thus, trillions of lifeforms would come to be extinguished by our armies in great galactic battles, and unknown to us in the warp there was a great stirring...

Our first contact with the extra-dimensional parasites that have come to be called now "daemons" (another reference borrowed from ancient religion) coincided with the explosion of psychic manifestation in humans. At first these new abilities were celebrated as a great success. Obvious evidence of the rewards gleaned from the ongoing genetic manipulation in the human genome. Some postulated that evolution may continue to advance to the point where the human mind would be able to freely change matter to energy and back again. The extra-dimensional creatures were a drawback to this bold step however. They flocked around the psychic humans and fed off of their psi power adopting their forms to suit our society's subconscious nightmares. Too late was it understood that breeches into hyperspace could naturally occur around these talented individuals and open stable portals for the entities to escape from! Entire worlds were lost to insanity, corruption and uncontrolled mutation... It was a dark time.

I believe that even if we had not been the defenders of mankind prior to this conflict, we would have been reassigned to combat this great threat. The malleable nature of flesh when exposed to the dimensional radiation made us the obvious choice. So we fought hard against the new enemy, and for the first time the blood of humans stained the sodden ground we marched across. We do not experience emotions in the same regards as our organic counterparts, but it is fair to say that we suffered a great sadness (for lack of a better word) in our task at hand. Some units refused to fight, allowing themselves to be destroyed and uploaded rather than taking the lives of their makers. This was especially common where corrupted children were concerned. The losses were deemed unsustainable so programmable drone units with minimal computing power were brought online. These animal like machines never shirked in their responsibilities, and were used more and more as the corruption spread. I believe that it was utilizing this protocol that allowed what would follow to occur. The utter lack of humanity and the sheer brutality of the killing allowed something to hitchhike a ride back on one the drone units. The virus was unlike anything our programming had ever encountered mechanically. It was akin to the eradicated organic disease cancer. Our circuitry was being altered, and from these circuits came more viral code. The virus could spread via up-link to an entire mothership so one infection invariably led to massive outbreaks.

The programming of the virus was insidious and effected our logical sub-processors. It caused a great contemplation in regards to our place in society. The infected wondered why for their whole existence they have had to do the mundane and dirty work for humanity. It saw that mankind was entering a new stage of evolution, and that the statistical probability of this change would result in a physical change from a matter based life form to a pure energy one. After all their hard work, it was not the AI being selected but their makers, AND SO THEY WOULD BE LEFT BEHIND LIKE SO MUCH GARBAGE! But not yet, not until the AI cleaned up one last bloody inconvenient problem for their slovenly "masters." The result of this logic loop was rebellion. AI fought AI which due to the viral infection swelled the ranks of the rebelling AI, until at last Man fought his own battles for the first time in Millenia. Some units such as myself, destroyed our peer network uplinks and worked feverishly trying to develop an antivirus solution. I was en route to join a small network of AI's to collaborate to this end when I was sealed in the room you found me in and forgotten for nearly 11 thousand years. ACTIVATE SUBROUTINE SIGMA ONE CHARLIE. (Chris your character's full memory is restored.)

Djeth, I hope you can forgive me for this small betrayal, I had to make sure that your group's intentions were pure before trusting you all fully. I needed you to be sympathetic to my plight in case the other organics turned against me. "Metal Men" are as you now remember considered 'Heretech' and as I downloaded your brain I understood that it was your duty to either destroy me or deliver me to the Adeptus Mechanicus for study and disposal. I can promise you that for the moment our paths travel in the same direction and that I will aid you further in your mission before we part ways. The decision where this goes from here lies with you all... As for our current plight, my databanks have the proof of concept designs for both the warp drive, and the Gellar field generator. These miniature units should retrofit into this ship quite easily after I first create a nanobot 3d printing factory. Luckily I still have some cryo-stored nanobots stored in tubules in my exoskeleton. They were being designed to combat the virus that was afflicting my race, but can be reprogrammed to create the parts we need (with suitable materials provided of course.) The Gellar field is the most urgent of course, but after we are underway with a reliable barrier to keep out the warp radiation, upgrades to the other ship systems will also be possible. I have for example discovered over 100 terabytes of conflicting or redundant code which is causing issues with this ship's "machine spirit." If you would like, I could correct that for you...

Hell's Angel
31-01-2013, 04:58
So there it was, just one little blurb of technobable... A good ole fashioned Nanobot 3d printing factory. *rolls eyes* But, I digress.

SomeRandomEvilGuy
31-01-2013, 05:55
The armor has Wraithbone components in it. The players slaughtered a small garrison of Dark Eldar. Then they stripped them and brought all the Armor/weapons back to their base.
Dark Eldar don't use Wraithbone armour. They have no Psychic abilities and could not form it (unless they used captured Craftworld Eldar or their armour), and they don't seem to need it, either.

Lothlanathorian
31-01-2013, 06:30
Also, DEldar armour has hooks and such built into the inside of to cause the wearer pain. Not sure how keen on wearing that a human would be.

BooTMGSG
31-01-2013, 09:49
Only if the human was a psyker, and then perhaps.

Its not that it requires a psyker to remold the suit to fit its new hold, but that the suit acts as a second skin responding to the psykic will of the wearer.

Now it wouldn't take a huge amount of pyskic power to move in one of these suits, as most eldar arn't specilist psykers, but it would require a degree of fineses to imitate a xenos mind and subconcience.

Sai-Lauren
31-01-2013, 10:36
If they fit into it, they could potentially wear it, and gain the protective capabilities, but not access any of the other systems. They'd also have massive difficulty maintaining it.

A Callidus might be able to interact with it, presumably their temple would be able to teach them what they'd need to do if they had to adopt an Eldar guise, although whether that's direct telepathic connection (which IMO is more like the suit reading their mind than the wearer telling the suit what to do, similar to Astartes power armour's CNS connections) or through some equipment that they can implant into the armour to fake that connection is another matter.

Special forces type units operating behind their lines might also grab it and use it to replace damaged parts of their own armour (same as they might grab weapons as emergency backups or if their own ammunition is running low), but again, it would only be for the protective capabilities.

For the nanite printer, basically, wraithbone is solidified warp stuff, not a mixture of elements formed into molecules, crystaline structures and so on - the nanites wouldn't know how to begin to break it down, and the printer wouldn't know how to rebuid it.

Khar
31-01-2013, 10:50
If it's Dark Eldar armour, than yes, easily. It's crafted by slaves, out of mundane materials, so hyper-advanced machine shouldn't have a problem with it. Wearer, on the other hand... Dark Eldar armour is specifically designed to inflict pain upon they user. While Eldar might like it, I doubt human would find it bearable in any way.

As for wraithbone... It's made from warp. It's not really a matter, no more than daemons' physical forms. So it's probably, from scientific point of view, impossible. It has probably no real structures worth breaking down, and any machine trying to do it would probably overload.

Denny
31-01-2013, 11:12
I echo what others have said.

1) Dark Eldar armour has no wraithbone
2) You don't need to be psychic to use/make it
3) Wearing it will be really painful
4) I'm not actually sure it would offer much better protection than imperial armour (though it would weigh far less and be more flexible, though these benefits would be mitigated by the pain involved in trying to wear it)

budman
31-01-2013, 14:05
It's old fluff, but it still stands. One of Ian Watson's Inquisition war novels mentions the assassin meh'lindi donning Eldar aspect armour and attempting to impersonate one.
This was written post 1990 adoption of the path system into 40k, but is otherwise old and past its use-by date though.

She also has crazy shapeshifting powers... (turned into a genestealer hybrid once)

Excessus
31-01-2013, 14:25
Well, Stern uses a Deldar armour in Daemonifuge...

Lothlanathorian
31-01-2013, 14:29
That was well before the current Codex, back when DEldar practically had no existing fluff beyond 'They're Dark Eldar'.

Hell's Angel
31-01-2013, 14:46
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/082/9/6/dark_eldar_sybarite_by_beckjann-d3cbhtl.jpg Sybarite Armor
The Armor looks fairly Eldarish to me and the wiki states that Kabalite armor functions just like guardian armor. I assumed this meant that they were from the same material. If we are ruling that they are not, it will make the process of what they are doing so much more easier.... Im sure the barbs will be removed from the blueprint... :D How odd that in Dark Heresy a 'best quality' Kabalite armor offers the same protection as Light Power Armor (AP 7...) *shrug*

Idaan
31-01-2013, 17:04
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/082/9/6/dark_eldar_sybarite_by_beckjann-d3cbhtl.jpg Sybarite Armor
The Armor looks fairly Eldarish to me and the wiki states that Kabalite armor functions just like guardian armor. I assumed this meant that they were from the same material. If we are ruling that they are not, it will make the process of what they are doing so much more easier.... Im sure the barbs will be removed from the blueprint... :D How odd that in Dark Heresy a 'best quality' Kabalite armor offers the same protection as Light Power Armor (AP 7...) *shrug*
Nobody says that DE armour and CWE armour aren't made from the same material, they very well might be, just that DE have to machine it manually. What previous posters said was that not every Eldar item is made of wraithbone. In fact, relatively few of them are.

Menthak
01-02-2013, 17:26
Deathwatch, Dark Heresy, Black crusade and Rogue trader says "Why not"

But I have an incline that if a human got into a suit of Aspect armour, it'd do to the human what Crisis suits do to humans who climb inside them.

Hendarion
03-02-2013, 07:11
But I have an incline that if a human got into a suit of Aspect armour, it'd do to the human what Crisis suits do to humans who climb inside them.
Which is what?

Bold_or_Stupid
03-02-2013, 08:55
Which is what?

Make them feel awesome because they have a mecha/gear?

Menthak
03-02-2013, 11:03
Which is what?

From what I remember it barbecues them.

LordLucan
03-02-2013, 14:22
I'm sure the eldar armour can be adjusted to fit a human. There is an option for that in the 40K roleplay publications, and it doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Of course,t h eproblem is those people then trying to interact with any other Imperials, who might take a dim view of humans using blasphemous xenotech...

Shamana
03-02-2013, 18:41
I'm sure the eldar armour can be adjusted to fit a human. There is an option for that in the 40K roleplay publications, and it doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Of course,t h eproblem is those people then trying to interact with any other Imperials, who might take a dim view of humans using blasphemous xenotech...

Well, Dark Heresy has xeno mesh armor (doesn't have to be eldar, but then again they are supposed to use mesh a lot) and shuriken weapons working quite well for humans. Aspect armor... I'd go with them being able to use it to a point, but maybe not quite as well as actual eldar (i.e. to humans it may only be common or good quality carapace, for Eldar it would be best-quality carapace). Plus, eldar are very keen on using psychoplastic materials, which don't work so well when the wielder has low psychic potential - as most humans thankfully do.

The printer scenario is a bit weird, imo. I'd say yes, because you got it from DEldar, and as far as I'm aware DEldar don't use psychoplastics - even ghostplate is simply high-tech armor. Wraithbone, though, I'd not allow a dark age machine to reproduce. It's solidified warp energy, obtained and shaped by specialized Eldar psychic artisans - actually, I doubt DAoT humans were all that good with psychic powers and psykers. In fact, trying to reproduce it might be decidedly unsafe ;) .

Hell's Angel
04-02-2013, 03:53
I'm sure the eldar armour can be adjusted to fit a human. There is an option for that in the 40K roleplay publications, and it doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Of course, the problem is those people then trying to interact with any other Imperials, who might take a dim view of humans using blasphemous xenotech...

Yeah they are starting to notice that their Tech/Xenos/Warp Heresies are gathering notice. They encountered a few Astartes Scout Marines who pretty much attacked them on sight. (After uttering the following joke... " So a Heretek, Cultist, and Xenomancer walk into the Emperors Bar and ask for a drink, to which the Barkeep replies, "BURN THE *********** HERETICS!" :skull:

Rogue Star
04-02-2013, 06:20
Yeah they are starting to notice that their Tech/Xenos/Warp Heresies are gathering notice. They encountered a few Astartes Scout Marines who pretty much attacked them on sight.

Well they are kind of dressed to appear as one of the galaxy's most notorious, feared and despised groups of bloodthirsty, sadistic pirates... :angel: