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Bieren
03-02-2013, 16:18
Hey,

H is The most dun Army i tred in my eyes.
But never could try The Phoenix guards, white lions and The lion chariot.
How are these units? I also know romours are boek Will be for this year.
Core whit 35spears and 2 units of 15 archers ? Will this be good start?

Last qeustion are The Great eagels stil metal?

seb2304
03-02-2013, 16:25
I play high elves as well and am supposedly one of the strongest in my store as i have won nearly all the fantasy tourns and campaigns.I would say reduce the spearmen to 32 and put them in a formation 8 by 4.Only use both units of archers in big games, use one in 1500 and under as SUPPORT. do not give them the armour in these games, or banner.My advice about the eagles is use the new hobbit ones as
a. they cheaper
b. dont break as often
c look better
d are plastic not metal

warplock
03-02-2013, 16:30
What do you mean by 'most dun army'? White Lions are amazing - WS5, S6 and ASF for rerolls to hit. They suffer a bit from only having 1 attack each; some people horde them to get around this. Stubborn helps if you get in a tight spot, but to be honest they very rarely lose combat anyway. Properly fielded, White Lions will wipe the floor with Chaos Warriors, Temple Guard, Ironguts, Chaos Knights and pretty much any tough unit you can think of. Phoenix Guard are a lot more durable but they lack the killing power with just 1 S4 attack each. They look awesome but I much prefer White Lions.

High Elves are usually best taken with minimal core - not a hair over 25%. Unless you're fielding a 2500-3000 point army, that seems like rather a lot of core to take in my opinion.

MR. GRUMPY
03-02-2013, 16:36
White lions are really good. Will smack around any monster and most other elites out there. I run mine with amulet of light and flaming banner to counter etherals and regneration monster. Being stubborn they can deploy outside of bsb/general range if they need to.
Phoenix guards are more situnational. They do anvil quite good in a otherwise fragile army but struggle to kill stuff. Magic can solve this if you want to play them but I think you should have a particular list design in mind to pick them over white lions and swordmasters.
Yes rumours say High elves book should be out by this summer.
That sounds like a pretty balanced and standard core. I would advise you never to spend more then the required 25 percent in HE core.
The great eagles are still metal. There is alternatives like the new hobbit eagles and converting the griffon from IoB.

Oh and I have never used the lion chariot but my thoughts is that they are expensive, fragile and we have acess to high str attacks already. I use normal chariots for extra drops if any.

Bieren
03-02-2013, 17:32
Ok i play games of 2250 points.
So i reduce my spears to 32 and my archer only get a music...

I only play for fun so i'll add my self 1 lion chariot :D

And on what base are these eagels? so i can put them on the proper base.

VampireOrcElf
03-02-2013, 22:02
if you wanna make spearmen epic take 50-60 in horde, then mindrazor them :D

Bieren
04-02-2013, 12:38
Now my Hero I play 2250 games but can't pick between telicus or prince on a drogan probley
the star 1.

What are the + and - on them?

cptcosmic
04-02-2013, 13:02
I play high elves as well and am supposedly one of the strongest in my store as i have won nearly all the fantasy tourns and campaigns.
the hell?! the guys in your local store are either terrible or play very friendly lists while you bring out teclis :wtf:

Loth
04-02-2013, 14:54
For your spears go full command with magic banner to support main build. The +1 to combat res is always good.
Archers never need armor or any command except musician. Occasionally you might get a flaming magic banner depending on your army build.

PG is great for anvil, never go wider than 6 to minimize return attacks. Full command plus razor banner makes them more Killy.
A lion chariot is good for getting in edges of combat and adding to combat resolution but won't win the fight by themselves. Stubborn helps them act as a great but expensive screening unit for your flanks. Chariots should be used to support one of your infantry units that need an extra punch.
White Lions are a good monster killer. I haven't horded them in game but provide another Killy screening force that is stubborn.

Loth

trotsky
04-02-2013, 16:59
Lion chariots aren't stubbern. White lions are great because of their flexability and they don't rely on powerful buffs (PG kinda need mindrazor and relying on swordmasters often requirs a life mage). Also because they are stubbern you can horde them without the risk of a flank attack and some bad rolls losing you the enitre unit and the game.

Bieren
05-02-2013, 19:43
Whats a good unit size for white Lions? In a 2250point game?
Lord is a prince on dragon (star or moon not sure yet) or telcius.
and 2 or 3 eagels.

trotsky
05-02-2013, 23:53
30 :)
dont take teclis or telcius, consider prince on eagle and level 4

VampireOrcElf
06-02-2013, 02:42
White lions 40 minimum

Bieren
06-02-2013, 05:29
And are spearmen realy a need in core?

What About a full archer core of 562 points?
and full White lion army lord and special?

Loth
06-02-2013, 13:10
A block of spearman in horde formation will get 50 attacks(50 guys) while a horde of archers will get 30(50 guys). Plus the spearman get the 6+ parry save which will reduce your wounds by 16%.
50 spears hitting on 4's will do 12.5 wounds vs 50 archers shooting with same parameters will do 8.3 wounds. A lot of other considerations go into it but spears do have a purpose.

If your Mage takes high magic and you get curse of arrow attraction off on target then your wounds for shooting are statistically the same as your spears.

do with that as you will.

Loth

kefkah
06-02-2013, 13:17
you dont get a parry save with a spear, only hand weapon and shield.
Also dont ever go 50 archers in 1 block lol, so dosent make sense to compare them. spears good for steadfast, only killy with magic. archers dont have to be in cc to do dmg. one block of 35ish spear and rest split up in archer unit for 2500p games seems good.

Lord Solar Plexus
06-02-2013, 13:18
That comparison is skewed. While I don't field archers, I don't think a horde of 50 could all shoot at once, and if this is so, it would make little sense to deploy them in this fashion.

Secondly, while the Spearmen have more attacks in CC, the archers have more attacks in the shooting phase. Now I feel a bit like Captain Obvious but you're mentioning just one of these aspects. The real question therefore is: Can the archers kill enough in the shooting phase to compensate for 20 attacks less?

Lastly, I do not think Spearmen get a parry save. They're fighting with the spear, not with a handweapon and shield. Don't tell me I made such a basic mistake all these years... :eek:

Jeesh, ninja'ed!

Bieren
07-02-2013, 07:41
Is it ok to play whit put a lord ?
What think min core then the White lion Hero,
and the 2 units of 35 White Lions and a lion chariot and 2 eagels and a mabey an argemage if the points allowed it

boli
07-02-2013, 08:42
279 22 Archers, Musician, Flaming Banner
313 32 Spearmen with full command

That'll sort your core out and be extremely flexible; personally I prefer to bulk this out to 50 spears and a few more archers generally but it really depends on who your opponent is.

trotsky
07-02-2013, 11:10
That comparison is skewed. While I don't field archers, I don't think a horde of 50 could all shoot at once, and if this is so, it would make little sense to deploy them in this fashion.

Secondly, while the Spearmen have more attacks in CC, the archers have more attacks in the shooting phase. Now I feel a bit like Captain Obvious but you're mentioning just one of these aspects. The real question therefore is: Can the archers kill enough in the shooting phase to compensate for 20 attacks less?

Its not about the number of bodies they can kill! Its their utility in wiping out chaff units that are blocking your lions, making sure he cant have his mages wandering around, focus firing a big unbreakable monster, having more control in forcing your opponent to come to you and make mistakes and they can still fight off enemy chaff in CC and deliver decisive and unxpected flank attacks