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View Full Version : How to protect your expensive unit / deathstar / wizard bunker from WOC Daemon Prince



pippin_nl
03-02-2013, 16:42
The new Daemon Prince from the Warriors of Chaos book is a real monster:

M8 WS9 BS5 S6 T5 4W I8 A5 LD9

He can take Mark of Nurgle, Glittering Scales, Scaled Skin and Flight for a -2 to hit (anything but WS10 needs sixes), 4+/5++ saves and T5 makes wounding not easy either.

Or maybe: Mark of Nurgle, Chaos Armour, Dawnstone, Scaled Skin and Flight for a -1 to hit (anything under WS5 will need sixes), 2+/2+/5++.

Obviously the Dwarf or Empire answer is not too surprising, but how will other armies cope?

Vipoid
03-02-2013, 19:37
I8? Really? It's as fast as a Dark Elf Lord? Ouch.

Well, VC can potentially scream it to death with a Terrorghiest. I think, statistically, 2 screams should be enough to kill it. Can't think of any other reliable way for them to take it out though.

Out of interest, can anyone think of a character they'd be willing to use against it in combat?

VampireOrcElf
03-02-2013, 19:53
I8? Really? It's as fast as a Dark Elf Lord? Ouch.

Well, VC can potentially scream it to death with a Terrorghiest. I think, statistically, 2 screams should be enough to kill it. Can't think of any other reliable way for them to take it out though.

Out of interest, can anyone think of a character they'd be willing to use against it in combat?

First my champ, then whatever poor sod is left in the unit :P

Vipoid
03-02-2013, 20:14
First my champ, then whatever poor sod is left in the unit :P

Heh.

I was actually thinking of characters you'd put against it with a decent expectation of winning; but a good answer, nevertheless. ;)

Xerkics
03-02-2013, 20:25
Heh.

I was actually thinking of characters you'd put against it with a decent expectation of winning; but a good answer, nevertheless. ;)
Bret Lord with Heroic Killing blow and reroll to wound? supported with lore of beasts.

VampireOrcElf
03-02-2013, 20:47
Bret Lord with Heroic Killing blow and reroll to wound? supported with lore of beasts.

Will the Bret lord survive to fight back? that's my concern

Bring_Back_Chaos_Dwarfs?
03-02-2013, 20:50
Great Unclean One w/ Noxious Vapors & Balesword

Surely everyone has one of these hanging around :p

snottlebocket
03-02-2013, 20:57
Will the Bret lord survive to fight back? that's my concern

Offensively demon princes are good but not amazing. They only get a 25 points magic item allowance and most of the mutations are supportive rather than offensive.

They got great stats but not quite souped up character cracking stats.

Doommasters
03-02-2013, 21:07
Will the Bret lord survive to fight back? that's my concern

DP gets five attacks and you can negate 50% of those straight away with a 4+ ward save so I would say there is a good chance he will be hitting back (you probably won't get a second round though so you either HKB or you die, alos you will be on a mount so no stomps on you). I would be more worried about getting into combat with a chaos lord with D3 attacks weapon if i were a bret lord but I am not going to crank out the maths.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 06:16
First my champ, then whatever poor sod is left in the unit :P

Feeding champs makes the DP stronger and as it is unbreakable, makes your unit stuck longer.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 06:18
Bret Lord with Heroic Killing blow and reroll to wound? supported with lore of beasts.

He will only hit on sixes though and HKB on sixes, not much chance.

rocdocta
04-02-2013, 06:45
iron guts. the Prince may mash a few, but i should get 12 attacks back at him. or just 2 iron blasters to the face.

Doommasters
04-02-2013, 07:56
iron guts. the Prince may mash a few, but i should get 12 attacks back at him. or just 2 iron blasters to the face.

Iron blasters will be a good option not so sure about the iron guts;

WS9 -2 to hit 5+ ward, not to mention if he is a lvl3-4 caster he will probably have atleast +1W +1T, ohe he will get one wound back for every six wounds he inflicts. He can also issue challenges so you don't get yur full attacks and he is unbreakable so is going no where. If you do take a few wounds off him he may have a close combat breath weapon and as a last didtch chance to gain some wounds.......once this guy is in combat unless versus something terrible he will be a brick wall.

myrsnipe
04-02-2013, 08:10
First my champ, then whatever poor sod is left in the unit :P

Feeding champs makes the DP stronger and as it is unbreakable, makes your unit stuck longer.

The new Daemon Prince does not have Eye of the Gods, while this means that he doesn't roll on the table anymore whenever he kills champs/characters/monsters, he doesn't need to issue challenges anymore

Scammel
04-02-2013, 08:28
Guns, bows and warmachines. This guy is basically a better unkillable Dreadlord if tooled up properly except for the fact that he can actually hurt whatever unit he's tarpitting. It just remains to be seen whether he'll budge the Sorceror Lord off his perch in standard lists. My Ogres should do fine against him, my Beastmen are probably going to be incredibly reliant on Hatred to have a chance of taking him out. I suppose the one redeeming feature is that W4 is not an awful lot - less than a Tyrant or Doombull, in fact.

Doommasters
04-02-2013, 08:33
Guns, bows and warmachines. This guy is basically a better unkillable Dreadlord if tooled up properly except for the fact that he can actually hurt whatever unit he's tarpitting. It just remains to be seen whether he'll budge the Sorceror Lord off his perch in standard lists. My Ogres should do fine against him, my Beastmen are probably going to be incredibly reliant on Hatred to have a chance of taking him out. I suppose the one redeeming feature is that W4 is not an awful lot - less than a Tyrant or Doombull, in fact.

A lvl4 Nurgle DP is going to get permenant +1W and +1T for every six spells he casts on average. If he gets into a unit that he will in trouble against all he has to do is issue a challenge.

Scammel
04-02-2013, 08:38
Then try not to let him cast 6 spells if at all possible. Once the guy's in combat he's nigh-impossible to remove, no doubt about that, which is why you've got a roughly two-turn window to knock him out of the sky. Most armies pack multi-wound missiles of some description, or at least potent enough magic to knock him down a peg.

LordKrell
04-02-2013, 08:43
Then try not to let him cast 6 spells if at all possible. Once the guy's in combat he's nigh-impossible to remove, no doubt about that, which is why you've got a roughly two-turn window to knock him out of the sky. Most armies pack multi-wound missiles of some description, or at least potent enough magic to knock him down a peg.

How does the thunderstomp work with the soul feeder? There are a lot of chances of getting back some wounds, and if he is a nurgle caster he may increase his wounds over 4 and end the battle with 5 or 6

Expect the soul feeder in every princess you face...

Scammel
04-02-2013, 08:54
All the more reason to leave him as a pair of smoking daemonic boots ASAP.

LordKrell
04-02-2013, 09:09
All the more reason to leave him as a pair of smoking daemonic boots ASAP.

lol you're right. Luckily the chances of growing 3 or 4 princesses out of marauder champs and such are very narrow even with a warshrine...

Scammel
04-02-2013, 09:12
And fortunately, an army packing a Prince of that calibre and enough Warshrines to make a difference simply isn't going to be big enough to give your target priority much issues.

Ghremdal
04-02-2013, 09:59
I see it as another bloodthirster (a bit weaker in combat though). If you could deal with those (and I think most tournament armies had ways), then you can deal with the DP.

In my case its either going to be some sort of crazy combo charge, Arachnarok, Black Orcs or hopping to tarpit the thing with goblins.

myrsnipe
04-02-2013, 10:00
How does the thunderstomp work with the soul feeder? There are a lot of chances of getting back some wounds, and if he is a nurgle caster he may increase his wounds over 4 and end the battle with 5 or 6

Expect the soul feeder in every princess you face...

As far as I am aware, thunderstomp is considered a part of close combat


I see it as another bloodthirster (a bit weaker in combat though). If you could deal with those (and I think most tournament armies had ways), then you can deal with the DP.

In my case its either going to be some sort of crazy combo charge, Arachnarok, Black Orcs or hopping to tarpit the thing with goblins.

Seeing as the DP has flying (well, most builds should put flying on him), getting off combo charges won't exactly be easy

Vipoid
04-02-2013, 11:46
I see it as another bloodthirster (a bit weaker in combat though). If you could deal with those (and I think most tournament armies had ways), then you can deal with the DP.

Thing is, whilst the Bloodthirster has slightly better combat stats, it's also unstable.

The Daemon Prince is Unbreakable, but not unstable (so you can't use rank bonuses or any such against it, and losing combat doesn't hurt it in the slightest.

In addition, every wound you manage to inflict on the 'thirster sticks. So, especially if you have ranged stuff in your army, you'll often manage to whittle it, to the point where it can be finished off in combat (or, at the very least, combat against your more important units becomes far more risky).

On the other hand, correct me if I'm wrong, but the DP can (and probably will) have Soul Hunger. So, nice it gets into combat, it can start healing any damage you did in shooting.

Lord Solar Plexus
04-02-2013, 12:29
Some Slaves, a medium detachment or some Gobbos should do. WS 9 isn't any better than WS 3-4 against these. Let him kill 3 models per round + TS and be stuck for half the game. The trick is to catch him of course and kill enough that breaking free late game doesn't matter so much.



Out of interest, can anyone think of a character they'd be willing to use against it in combat?

Level 1 with van Horstman's? Not that I regularly field that combo...in fact I never did. I suppose the L1 would still go smush.


A lvl4 Nurgle DP is going to get permenant +1W and +1T for every six spells he casts on average. If he gets into a unit that he will in trouble against all he has to do is issue a challenge.

Then your opponent refuses and he's still fighting said troublesome unit.

Sh4d0w
04-02-2013, 13:25
A question that needs to be answered i think ( i dont own the book), how many spells can he cast whether it be from nurgle, tzeentch or slaanesh can be cast out of combat? Cause if its very few, he might just not venture into combat till late in the game.

myrsnipe
04-02-2013, 13:38
Some Slaves, a medium detachment or some Gobbos should do. WS 9 isn't any better than WS 3-4 against these. Let him kill 3 models per round + TS and be stuck for half the game. The trick is to catch him of course and kill enough that breaking free late game doesn't matter so much.



Level 1 with van Horstman's? Not that I regularly field that combo...in fact I never did. I suppose the L1 would still go smush.



Then your opponent refuses and he's still fighting said troublesome unit.

Tarpitting the DP with weak units may not work so good, a Nurgle DP will start throwing the vortex spell and kill tons, even the signature template may be used if theres a target on the other side. If he has backup from a Tzeentch sorc with treason, they might run in a single turn. Magic may not always work, but it will always be a good idea to risk IF by 6 dicing rather than letting your DP be trapped for the rest pf the game.

Nurgle DP is awesome!

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 13:51
He flies so he will not attack slaves but the Bell unit, first killing the Bell and the Grey Seer.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 13:57
Some Slaves, a medium detachment or some Gobbos should do. WS 9 isn't any better than WS 3-4 against these. Let him kill 3 models per round + TS and be stuck for half the game. The trick is to catch him of course and kill enough that breaking free late game doesn't matter so much.



Level 1 with van Horstman's? Not that I regularly field that combo...in fact I never did. I suppose the L1 would still go smush.



Then your opponent refuses and he's still fighting said troublesome unit.

But which unit is troublesome, only hitting on sixes means 12 Ironguts only hit twice, wound 2 x 2/3 = 4/3, after ward saves you are lucky to do a single wound, meaning that even without soulfeeder you wound need 2 full turns. That would win the game for your opponent holding up 1200 points with just 350 or so.

Leth Shyish'phak
04-02-2013, 14:06
How does the thunderstomp work with the soul feeder?


As far as I am aware, thunderstomp is considered a part of close combat

Thunderstomp doesn't benefit from special rules unless otherwise specified (as in Daemonic Attacks, which hilariously isn't in the DoC book, so they don't have magic stomps while WoC daemons do...) and the rulebook FAQ classes Daemonic Gifts, Vampiric Powers, etc as special rules, so no Soul Feeding from Thunderstomps.

Lord Solar Plexus
04-02-2013, 14:11
Tarpitting the DP with weak units may not work so good, a Nurgle DP will start throwing the vortex spell and kill tons, even the signature template may be used if theres a target on the other side. If he has backup from a Tzeentch sorc with treason, they might run in a single turn.

Wow. Impressive how the new Chaos can make 120 points run in a single turn with the help of 800. :p


He flies so he will not attack slaves but the Bell unit, first killing the Bell and the Grey Seer.

My Bell is surrounded by Slaves on all sides then! Not saying he isn't cool but this is all too much speculation for me.


But which unit is troublesome

That was never specified I gather.

danny-d-b
04-02-2013, 14:22
feed it chaff? set up double fleed archer bunkers

o and unlesh cannons/vollyguns at it
cos there isn't anything that can't be answered by cannons/vollyguns

Lord Solar Plexus
04-02-2013, 14:28
"Archer bunkers"? Are you sure that's the right terminology? ;)

People are right, flying is what makes him so strong. The player who voluntarily charges into archers when he can get somewhere else is a fool, and positioning them so that he has to charge them but cannot redirect into something juicy is very tricky.

King Arthur
04-02-2013, 15:19
Ah for brets a higher value amber spear and a trebuchet shot should finish him

Lord Inquisitor
04-02-2013, 15:55
The first and most obvious solution is to shoot him dead. Just as vulnerable to cannons, stone throwers, doom divers, amber spear as ever. He can take a charmed shield now, which is pretty awesome, but it means no glittering scales or dawnstone.

After that, anything that inflicts automatic hits is the way forward. Spells, fanatics, impacts, etc.

If it gets into combat - yeah, you have a problem. Wow, I've been running through the various matchups and that nurgle/glittering scale combo is pretty resilient.

Havock
04-02-2013, 16:59
Some Slaves, a medium detachment or some Gobbos should do.

Considering the Daemon Prince flies something has to happen to make him dive into a tarpit unit like that. Like stupidity on one side, tactical ingenuity on the othe.

Or enough shooting to force him into the first unit he can charge.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 17:26
Cannons are also not a fool proof solution, he could hide behind a regenerating Chimera or something else.

Lord Inquisitor
04-02-2013, 17:58
From the other perspective, cannons are still the biggest risk I think for daemon princes and hiding behind a chimera or trolls, while helpful, isn't a sure-fire defence.

After chatting with my WoC-playing friend, I think Charmed Shield is too important to do without so that rules out glittering scales or dawnstone. Mark of Nurgle is going to mean anything WS4 or less is hitting on 6s and characters hit on 5s unless they're WS10 anyway and glittering scales rule out a decent armour save.

The other thing is that you can (just about at 2500, easily at 3000) get a sorcerer lord as well as a daemon prince without magic (or just a level 1 with spirit leech). Means you're not running your level 4 around away from your army and makes the DP less of a liability if he does get killed.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 18:10
From the other perspective, cannons are still the biggest risk I think for daemon princes and hiding behind a chimera or trolls, while helpful, isn't a sure-fire defence.

After chatting with my WoC-playing friend, I think Charmed Shield is too important to do without so that rules out glittering scales or dawnstone. Mark of Nurgle is going to mean anything WS4 or less is hitting on 6s and characters hit on 5s unless they're WS10 anyway and glittering scales rule out a decent armour save.

The other thing is that you can (just about at 2500, easily at 3000) get a sorcerer lord as well as a daemon prince without magic (or just a level 1 with spirit leech). Means you're not running your level 4 around away from your army and makes the DP less of a liability if he does get killed.

Why is it not a sure-fire defense. You can't shoot through a monster, it blocks the shot. Shooting directly at the DP behind the monster will need a '2' which means you have an 86% chance of missing. Note that the WOC player can have as many cheap regenerating Chimerae as the opponent cannons.

Ghremdal
04-02-2013, 18:16
If I can I plan to get him in combat with either Trolls or Arachnarok. Trolls are actually a better choice. Though with the release of every new book, spear chukkas are looking better and better.

Hiding a monster behind a troll screen works...some of the time. Against armies with 1 cannon it helps a great deal; with 2 its ok (better get that turn 2 charge), while against 3 or more anything thats not infantry tends to get shot dead.

Lord Inquisitor
04-02-2013, 18:21
Why is it not a sure-fire defense. You can't shoot through a monster, it blocks the shot. Shooting directly at the DP behind the monster will need a '2' which means you have an 86% chance of missing. Note that the WOC player can have as many cheap regenerating Chimerae as the opponent cannons.

Well, the DP's base is (just under) 2" wide and the DP has to be 1" away from the chimera in front, so between the back of the DP's base and the chimera that's 3" so there's actually a 1 in 3 chance of hitting the DP outright. There's the issue of hiding from all cannons behind the wall of chimerae (meaning you probably need the chimera blocking the shot to be side on and probably need two chimerae to block the shots completely if there are more than one cannon), not to mention the risk of a cannon killing the monster in front and hitting you anyway. Not so high with a single shot, but when you have multiple cannons the odds go up quite a bit. Plus what bothers me slightly is that the enemy gets a conciliation prize if he can't get your DP of hitting that other high-value monster. It's like you've set up a situation where his cannons can't fail to hit one or the other.

A monster shield also doesn't help against stone throwers.

Not that shielding a DP with chimerae is bad idea, it's certainly better than standing around in the open. I just would rather have a charmed shield to fall back on.

pippin_nl
04-02-2013, 18:34
Well, the DP's base is (just under) 2" wide and the DP has to be 1" away from the chimera in front, so between the back of the DP's base and the chimera that's 3" so there's actually a 1 in 3 chance of hitting the DP outright. There's the issue of hiding from all cannons behind the wall of chimerae (meaning you probably need the chimera blocking the shot to be side on and probably need two chimerae to block the shots completely if there are more than one cannon), not to mention the risk of a cannon killing the monster in front and hitting you anyway. Not so high with a single shot, but when you have multiple cannons the odds go up quite a bit. Plus what bothers me slightly is that the enemy gets a conciliation prize if he can't get your DP of hitting that other high-value monster. It's like you've set up a situation where his cannons can't fail to hit one or the other.

A monster shield also doesn't help against stone throwers.

Not that shielding a DP with chimerae is bad idea, it's certainly better than standing around in the open. I just would rather have a charmed shield to fall back on.

According to me 3 inch is less than 4 inch so only a '2' will hit, a '4' will fly over the DP. I also do not understand the 'risk of a cannon killing the monster in front and hitting you anyway', that rule only applies to Monstrous Infantry / Cavalry / Beasts.

Lord Inquisitor
04-02-2013, 18:50
Well, let's assume you aim 10" in front of the back of the DP's base. A roll of 10 will hit directly on the back of the base. A roll of 8 will also land on or directly in front of the base (depending on the angle of the shot), because the chimera has to be 3" away from the back of the DP's base. So an 8 or a 10 will hit the DP directly.

A monster or monstrous unit will stop a cannonball if not slain, but if a monster is slain then yes the ball continues. Look at page 113 again.

Ghremdal
04-02-2013, 18:53
Your cannon shot will always have a 1/3 chance to hit the target, as long as it is even a little angled. Remember a misfire on the second roll plants the cannonball, so that is a hit as well.

Though typically you would choose your first point 10" away from the end of the DP's base. You still get the 1/3 chance to hit even if the cannonball gets stuck in the screen.

Lord Solar Plexus
05-02-2013, 11:32
While it's possible to have as many Chimeras as cannon slot-wise, it is an absurd notion with regard to the relative point costs (way over 200 vs below 100). It's not going to work all that well against the Imperial and Dwarven flaming cannon, and the whole thing completely falls apart when the Ogre simply moves to get a better shot.

All of that is before the opponent wisens up, kills a big bunch of warriors with his large no AS-template and does as much or more damage than the DP.


Considering the Daemon Prince flies something has to happen to make him dive into a tarpit unit like that. Like stupidity on one side, tactical ingenuity on the othe.

Considering that the Prince flies into a predefined target we all know about, I'm simply positioning my tarpits around it. I know where it flies, it's the premise of this thread, what's the problem?

BlackPawl
05-02-2013, 11:41
With Skaven I would use my WLC which did not stop if I did not kill the monster before him, and if he is in the right position I can use the stormbanner - so he can not charge his target, has to wait another round (in which I can use my cannons) or has to go against the nearest target I provide for him.

And yes, a DP with support / magic can kill my slaves (I do not expect it otherwise), but if they can hold him for one or two rounds than they have done their job. And it means that he will "waste" some power dices for my slaves and not on my other units (the same goes for gobbos or other tarpits).

Havock
05-02-2013, 14:27
After chatting with my WoC-playing friend, I think Charmed Shield is too important to do without so that rules out glittering scales or dawnstone. Mark of Nurgle is going to mean anything WS4 or less is hitting on 6s and characters hit on 5s unless they're WS10 anyway and glittering scales rule out a decent armour save.


I have to agree, no rerolling is tough, but on the other hand, it has a 1+ save now, so you lose some, you gain some. It can also take some of the cheaper magical weapons that one would normally never pick, or the sword of striking, which is pretty cool with the Soul Feeder gift (ie. hit on 2's, wound on 2's -most of the time)

Lex
05-02-2013, 16:18
It is a balanced tool for the WoC toolbox. For me, I equip it with a Charmed Shield, Sword of Striking and Dragonbane Gem, seasoned with Daemonic Gifts and MoN. I then use it to stop whatever unit has the BoEF so that all of my Trolls and/or Regenerating Warriors clean up the rest of the army. Only Stream and Rancid can't be cast in combat so he can still contribute a great deal to the army with magic. It's in no way unkillable, but I really like the utility. As for killing it, as everyone has said, best way is volume of fire from any shooting really. It can still roll 1's on saves.

RuneGrey
05-02-2013, 16:58
It's worth noting that you can make a Chimera really damn tanky with a Nurgle lord and the right spells, which makes it a good cannonball shield as well. Since the Nurgle regen spell adds +1 to your regen if you already have the trait, that brings it down to a 3+ regen save. Doesn't help from flaming cannonballs though. *Fistshakes*

Really your best defense against cannons it seems is just getting stuck into combat early. Hence why charmed shield seems to be depressingly the best option to take. Alhough adding in Sword of Striking + Potion of Recklessness is starting to grow on me for the DP build for the 2+ to hit against most models and +1 attack on the charge, since you can't really take anything big with the charmed shield...

Lord Inquisitor
05-02-2013, 17:02
I have to agree, no rerolling is tough, but on the other hand, it has a 1+ save now, so you lose some, you gain some. It can also take some of the cheaper magical weapons that one would normally never pick, or the sword of striking, which is pretty cool with the Soul Feeder gift (ie. hit on 2's, wound on 2's -most of the time)

You don't normally take the sword of striking? :eyebrows:

I run it as a staple in most of my lists. Best value magic weapon in the game.

Pavisel
05-02-2013, 17:40
I and my HE have 2 solutions:

1) target him with 'curse of arrow attraction' and shoot the bejeezus out of him with my all-archer core

2) let him face my Prince: depending on his kit, he usually has a 2+ or 3+ rerollable armor, 4+ ward. ASF means I reroll hits (match his I8 so I'm good), sword that says I always wound on 2+. plus a kick from the pony he rides. :-) Sure, hitting him on 5's is still tricky, but that reroll is priceless. usually stubborn, too.

Lex
05-02-2013, 17:52
I ASF means I reroll hits (match his I8 so I'm good), sword that says I always wound on 2+.

Wouldn't it still have a 2+ save against those wounds? DP seems like it would come out on top without too much trouble. Might take a few rounds of combat.

lordlorien
05-02-2013, 18:05
2) let him face my Prince: depending on his kit, he usually has a 2+ or 3+ rerollable armor, 4+ ward. ASF means I reroll hits (match his I8 so I'm good), sword that says I always wound on 2+. plus a kick from the pony he rides. :-) Sure, hitting him on 5's is still tricky, but that reroll is priceless. usually stubborn, too.

Hmm that's why I would rather field him with Sword of Swift Slaying (if mage) and stay at a 2+ AS or go Helm of many Eyes and get the 1+ AS (stupidity on lvl 4 caster is just too dangerous). Can't have him hit after other combat lords ... especially Vamps or HElfs. With I 8 and ASF almost should hit before him or get rerolls out of the ASF rule.

Pavisel
05-02-2013, 22:38
Wouldn't it still have a 2+ save against those wounds? DP seems like it would come out on top without too much trouble. Might take a few rounds of combat.

No, the Lord is S4, so it knocks the save down by one anyway... I usually also field a beast Mage in the Lord's unit of Dragon Princes, so a Wyssan's Wildform or Savage Beast would be good boosts to knock that save down more. And if the Lord faces the daemon with his unit, that same Mage grants the unit a 2++ against whatever magic the daemon throws down. The Lord's 'strength' is his survivability. Maybe it doesn't look it on paper, but he is feared/disliked in my gaming group. If he can handle a BT, I think he can take a DP. :p

Havock
05-02-2013, 23:54
You don't normally take the sword of striking? :eyebrows:

I run it as a staple in most of my lists. Best value magic weapon in the game.

I normally don't run combat characters, my BSB was cowering behind a 3+ wardsave, and will in all likelyhood still be :p

Well, that is a lie, but running combat characters was when I could take an Exalted who was Lvl 2 and run him with Armour of Damnation and a Sword of Might.

ie. Hordes of Chaos.
ie. waaaaaay back, they just didn't cut it in the last book, imho.

m1acca1551
06-02-2013, 00:42
I think of it as there is finally a lord out there worth killing, my vamp lord relishes the opportunity to fight a daemon prince... :)

Sure the DP is a monster but he is no less deadly than a tooled up VC lord barring the crumble rule, but i've yet to see someone out combat res a blender lord unless he's leading zombies.

Lex
06-02-2013, 01:48
No, the Lord is S4, so it knocks the save down by one anyway... I usually also field a beast Mage in the Lord's unit of Dragon Princes, so a Wyssan's Wildform or Savage Beast would be good boosts to knock that save down more. And if the Lord faces the daemon with his unit, that same Mage grants the unit a 2++ against whatever magic the daemon throws down. The Lord's 'strength' is his survivability. Maybe it doesn't look it on paper, but he is feared/disliked in my gaming group. If he can handle a BT, I think he can take a DP. :p

The DP has a 1+ AS, so strength 4 still gives a 2+. Also, it's not going to cast spells at the Elflord, it's buffing up and gaining wounds. The DP is more survivable than a BT.

club_death
06-02-2013, 06:03
Zoooommmmmbbbbiiiieeeessssssssss.
Let him kill as many as he likes



I think of it as there is finally a lord out there worth killing, my vamp lord relishes the opportunity to fight a daemon prince... :)

Sure the DP is a monster but he is no less deadly than a tooled up VC lord barring the crumble rule, but i've yet to see someone out combat res a blender lord unless he's leading zombies.

Keen to see that too, is gunna be funnnnnn :)

logan054
06-02-2013, 06:51
DP gets five attacks and you can negate 50% of those straight away with a 4+ ward save so I would say there is a good chance he will be hitting back

Unless he has the other tricksters shard of course.

Nubl0
06-02-2013, 07:03
In a straight up duel I feel the blender lord will be found wanting against the new DP, and to all the people saying just to tarp it the thing... How on earth are you managing that when he flies around picking whatever combat he fancies?

Lord Solar Plexus
06-02-2013, 07:13
Just the way I've pointed out twice. :p

Judging from the way you've phrased it, you're completely missing the point I'm afraid.

BlackPawl
06-02-2013, 09:27
In a straight up duel I feel the blender lord will be found wanting against the new DP, and to all the people saying just to tarp it the thing... How on earth are you managing that when he flies around picking whatever combat he fancies?

As others have said before, "bunker" your units and feed him only the units that you want to. As a skaven player I would shield my grey seer (and my cannons) with bodies of slaves, so he has to kill whole units of slaves (the same goes with gobbos), that can take a while. Tomb kings can stand and bunker up also and try to get him with the casket, the same goes for vampire players with banshees / Therrorgeist (and can summon zombies whereever they want).

Lord Solar Plexus
06-02-2013, 11:11
Precisely.

It isn't easy, that much we can all agree upon. You don't "just" shoot or tarpit the beast - that's just the plan. Whether it actually works is a totally different kettle.

In principle, you could try to kill the DP. I mean if I lose my 200 point wizard and you lose a 500 point DP, that's fine with me. Now Empire cannot hope to do that 1:1 except perhaps with a Steam Tank going full throttle. That could do the trick but it's pretty random. Speed of Light Flagellants though or Mindrazored anything...a T8 TGM with Runefang / OTS...heck, one could in fact field several Runefangs (but would then probably lack magic support). Perhaps I'm grasping at straws...

trotsky
06-02-2013, 11:23
High elf eagle prince. Just fly him into him, should be alright

RuneGrey
06-02-2013, 14:38
The other thing to beware of from the level 4 lord is the possiblity of the Lord landing short of whatever you're afraid of him hitting and unleashing a few spells right in your face. While Nurgle is bad enough - Curse of Leper to debuff your toughness followed by some combination of stream of corruption, rancid visitations, and plague wind will give you a really bad day - remember that there's just as good of a chance of him unleashing Bjuna, Laniph, or Spirit Leech to mangle your general or wizard, or just revving up Purple Sun and blasting your huge death star unit. Remember that he doesn't need to get into melee combat to start laying waste to things, and both Nurgle and Slannesh have some nasty spells that will can do damage to an entire unit now.

sigmarus
06-02-2013, 16:39
Is the Daemon prince a large target? can you possibly hide him in a unit of chaos ogres or similar? (just for a turn or two to protect him from shooting)

Lord Inquisitor
06-02-2013, 16:42
He's not a large target, but he is a Monster. There's nothing stopping large targets from joining units, it's the Monster unit type that prevents you joining a unit. I can't think of any large targets that can join units (other than bell/furnace, which have their own rules), but in principle that's not the issue.

Havock
06-02-2013, 18:56
I thought it was the unbreakable part :p

N1AK
07-02-2013, 09:03
The new Daemon Prince from the Warriors of Chaos book is a real monster:

Obviously the Dwarf or Empire answer is not too surprising, but how will other armies cope?

His offensive power is much more limited than his resilience. 5 S6 attacks without re-rolls isn't going to kill any 1+/1+/4++ character very quickly: 0.28 wounds per round of combat in fact. I'd happily throw my standard Vampire Lord build into him, probably even my Ghoul King build if I'd already knocked a couple of wounds off by screams or magic. What he counters nicely are glass hammer style builds which rely on quickly killing targets to avoid taking too much damage back. Star Dragons, some Greater Daemons etc.