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Korpacz
04-02-2013, 19:23
Total points 2498. Almost everything is fast to very fast and everything hits hard and is also resilient. Any thoughts?

Demon Prince 560
MoN
Level 4 (nurgle or death? LD 9 Spirit leach is nice)
Chaos Armor
Flight
Flaming Breath
Scaly Skin
Chaos Familiar
Soul Feeder
Sword of Striking
Charmed Shield
Dragon Bane Gem

Exalted Hero 251 (goes with skull crushers)
BSB
MoN
Helm of Many Eyes
Dawnstone
Demonic Mount
Barding
Halberd
1+ re-rollable T5 w/3 wounds and ASF

Throgg

Festus

20 Warriors 280 (festus goes here)
MoN
FC
Shields
Razor Standard

6 Trolls

5 warhounds
5 warhounds

1 Chimera
Flaming Breath
Regen

4 Skullcrushers 342
Ensorceled weapons
Musician + Standard
Flamming Banner

So I'm missing a dispel scroll. Hopefully I'll survive.

Bigman
04-02-2013, 19:58
Your BsB cannot join the skull crushers. He has MoN they're MoK.

You cannot mix marks in a unit now.

Korpacz
04-02-2013, 20:03
Oh snap... you're right. Thanks for pointing that out. He'll have to sit with the warriors for the first turn for protection against magic missiles and warmachines. If the skullcrushers are within range he should still be able to get the 4+ LoS, and he'll have a 5+ regen from festus. Hopefully this will let him survive against a cannon ball or two.. 4+ LoS 5+ regen....

I'll have to play with the bsb to see how that works out. If it comes down to it, I can trade the knights and the bsb's mount for 8 chaos knights with Mon and ensorcelled weapons. Not a bad option either.

Knifeparty
04-02-2013, 20:20
Also, Flaming Banner doesn't work on magical weapons that the Skullcrushers have. They would have to take lances.

Bigman
04-02-2013, 20:26
Why take throgg and 6 trolls? Is it models?

Usually throgg would bee seen in bigger units. Just curious as to reasoning.

Korpacz
04-02-2013, 20:31
Thanks for pointing out the flaming banner. I'll need to fix that.

6 trolls help me meet minimum core delivery. Honestly I'd rather run him with 3 for a 2x2 formation as a character delivery system. Throgg alone can win combats (breath weapon + copious vomit gives him 2D6 S5 no armor save attacks + a S6 stomp), the trolls are there just to keep him safe.

LordKrell
04-02-2013, 20:40
are you sure that 20 warriors are only 280?? No way

zielonkak
04-02-2013, 21:07
the warriors are base 280 before upgrades

Knifeparty
04-02-2013, 21:37
Thought I'd also point out that Chaos Warriors have a 25 pt magic banner limitation now meaning that you can't have the razor standard.

And your warrior unit should come out to 370 pts not including the illegal razor standard, which would be 415pts with it included not 280 pts.

White_13oy
05-02-2013, 08:50
Skullcrushers can take the flaming banner, it doesn't work on magic weapons, that is true. But ensorcerlled weapons give +1Str and magical attacks, they aren't magic weapons. Unless of coarse I missed something somewhere.

Lord Solar Plexus
05-02-2013, 09:08
Interesting perspective. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you yet, as I would have to look up the BRB rule...magical attacks and weapons are certainly different things...so would ensorcelled weapons be able to hurt that untouchable Hig hElf (is it Forlariath's Robe)?

Artinam
05-02-2013, 09:13
If the wording is as he says, then yes. The Bretonnian Grail Vow also gives magical attacks without turning their weapon into 'magic weapons'. I'm not sure but Tomb and Grave Guard also work like this IIRC.

White_13oy
05-02-2013, 19:35
Tomb/grave gaurd lost magical attacks. And yes Grail vow/ensorcelled weapons gets around that HE build. My friend plays HE and I read it. It turns magic weapons into mundane, but these aren't magic weapons.

Knifeparty
05-02-2013, 22:02
After reading the entry for Ensorcelled weapons I can see the both sides being argued for here, however until an actual FAQ hits this one I'd say is pretty much up for grabs. I wouldn't be surprised if they made them actual magic weapons from the description alone since there is lots of precedent for that in entries like the Dark Elf Hydra and Lizardmen Salamanders. In the description of their breath weapons have the word "flaming" in their name and not listed as "flaming" attacks in the rules description that eventually are FAQ'd to be in fact "Flaming" attacks later on.

ValnirTheReaper
06-02-2013, 10:51
Thanks for pointing out the flaming banner. I'll need to fix that.

6 trolls help me meet minimum core delivery. Honestly I'd rather run him with 3 for a 2x2 formation as a character delivery system. Throgg alone can win combats (breath weapon + copious vomit gives him 2D6 S5 no armor save attacks + a S6 stomp), the trolls are there just to keep him safe.

Are Trolls stil worth taking now they lost their Mutant Regen?

Pedneault
06-02-2013, 22:15
Your BsB cannot join the skull crushers. He has MoN they're MoK.

You cannot mix marks in a unit now.

Could you please point me out where it is written that you cannot ?

The only thing I see in the book is a magic standard saying you can't but only if you have that particular standard.

"The bearer of the Banner of Rage can only join units that are completely comprised of model with the mark of Khorne. Only characters that have the mark of Khorne may join the same unit as the bearer." p.63

Clearly implies that you could put mixed marked figures in the same unit.

SearchBot
07-02-2013, 04:22
Could you please point me out where it is written that you cannot ?

The only thing I see in the book is a magic standard saying you can't but only if you have that particular standard.

"The bearer of the Banner of Rage can only join units that are completely comprised of model with the mark of Khorne. Only characters that have the mark of Khorne may join the same unit as the bearer." p.63

Clearly implies that you could put mixed marked figures in the same unit.

Perhaps you should try reading p. 24 "Marks of Chaos" and I quote:

"A character with a Mark of Chaos cannot join a unit that has a different Mark of Chaos."

Pretty black and white.

Korpacz
07-02-2013, 18:48
Are Trolls stil worth taking now they lost their Mutant Regen?

Trolls are a steal now that they're 10 points cheaper. Mutant regen was nice but it was the cherry on top they're still as powerful as they were before.

A horde of 16 trolls cost less than 50 mok gw marauders and are much more potent.

Piercefierce
08-02-2013, 01:11
Trolls are a steal now that they're 10 points cheaper. Mutant regen was nice but it was the cherry on top they're still as powerful as they were before.

A horde of 16 trolls cost less than 50 mok gw marauders and are much more potent.

Hahaha wow. 16 trolls cheaper than 50 Khorne marauders. That doesn't feel right. Seems like taking throgg every game might be an option. Especially considering how many new monsters there are that could benefit from his ld. Is it just me or is throgg under priced. A st5 breath weapon with no armour seems too good. Not To mention everything else.

Korpacz
08-02-2013, 04:50
Ya Throgg is ridiculously good.

16 trolls is just a little over 550
50 marauders with FC, GW and MoK is 580

If they faced off, the marauders go first doing 9 unsaved wounds, then the trolls hit back for 21 unsaved wounds.

And the trolls are cheaper. Sometimes I think GW puts no thought or effort into their games.

EDIT:

WAIT... the marauders have ASL, so they'd take more than 21 wounds and deal even fewer than 9 wounds back. Why would anyone ever take the marauders over the trolls?

Lord Solar Plexus
08-02-2013, 05:02
Trolls obviously have a range of disadvantages over Marauders, you just need to do a tidy comparison to see them.

Korpacz
08-02-2013, 19:07
Trolls:

Benefits over Marauders:
Faster @ M6
can't be stomped
stomps
4+ regen
cause fear
higher toughness
attack BEFORE the marauders
can vomit against high AS opponents.

Problems:
stupid

Marauders:

Benefits over Trolls:
can form up for 10 ranks to break steadfast
Immune to terror until combat is lost

Problems:
Frenzy & forced overrun can throw them out of position very quickly
Can lose frenzy

What am I missing?

Bigman
09-02-2013, 19:08
Trolls -- Low leadership. Low initiative. Flaming attacks available to many armies. No other access to armour.