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Thundergod
09-06-2005, 14:41
Over the last couple of years I've picked up some Confrontation figs primarilly for painting fun, though it was not untill recently I got a pack with an english rule book. So if there are any Rackam vets out there, a couple questions. . .

1. Is the game any good? It looks like there are some interesting mechanics and abilities. Is it fun to play, or do the figs just sit around and look pretty while you get frustrated?

2. For Confrontation (not Ragn'roc) what is a typicall size game? 300 points, 500, 1000? Is it the kind of thing where (like Warmachine) it breaks down over a certin size?

Thanks
TG

BoosterX
09-06-2005, 15:04
1. It is probably one of the best, if not the best, small squad fantasy skirmish games out there.

2. Typical game here is 400 pts. 200 pts of Troops and 200 pts for Characters.

BoosterX
09-06-2005, 15:05
http://en-forum.confrontation.fr/index.php

Thundergod
09-06-2005, 15:32
Ahhh- I KNEW there had to be some english in their website somewhere- thanks to both for the replys. Anyone else out there who plays, I'd love to hear what you think as well,
Thanks again,
TG

billr
09-06-2005, 20:33
There is a new rule set coming out very soon. Either in July or at gencon. Supposed to have a nice 200 page hardcover full color rulebook. Judging by what I've seen of their stuff (and other French companies) I imagine it will be beautiful.

I'd wait for the new rules. The current system is clunky and the new version fixes a lot of that.

But if you like using painted figs, start painting now. They take forever to paint.

Thundergod
09-06-2005, 21:32
I just saw it (fancy new rules) at my lgs, looks like a nice presentation, though untill I'm sure I'm going to actually play the game, I'm sticking to my dinky little book ;-) iirc it ran about $60 or $70 (US)
Mostly by accident i have figs that appear to be usable together (mostly lion but also some griffen and kelt figs) and a fair number of them are painted up, so i should be up and running quickly
Cheers,
TG

Loaf32
10-06-2005, 00:13
Wait. You just saw the new rules at your LGS? I thought that wouldn't be stateside for a couple more months!

As far as starting the game, good on you! Con is the best mini game I have ever played. I actually dropped the GW games I played for about 10 years after I started playing Con.

Keravin
10-06-2005, 10:30
Big fan of Confrontation and also the boardgame Hybrid. Tend to play about 300 points as we're slowly painting the backlog.

Thundergod
10-06-2005, 14:40
@Loaf32
I assume these are the new rules, sadly the package was shrinkwrapped, but it appeared to match the description that was in Harbinger (the magazine) two issues back, iirc- hardcover book, a whole bunch of counters, and i think a couple other doodads.

It is entirely possible that i'm wrong, also, it could be the difference between confrontation and ragnarok (are there two new rules sets coming out? one for each?)
Cheers,
TG

Loaf32
11-06-2005, 05:20
Ah. You probably saw the Ragnarok box. Smallish, black, two books, and a heap of counters and stuff? If so, you most likely saw the Rag box.

The new rules for Rag came out a few months back, and a new Con book will be out (supposedly) in the next couple months.

-Loaf

x-esiv-4c
11-06-2005, 15:33
It's a lot of fun. My favorite feature of it is the kickass models. The paintwork by their painters is amazing.

billr
11-06-2005, 16:52
loaf32 is probably right, I think you're referring to the ragnorak rules as well. From what I have heard the book will sell for about $30. (First question I had for the guy who told me).

There are a lot of confrontation players here. Hybrid didn't catch on. I'm not sure why. Part of it was probably the price of the box set.

Ragnorak didn't catch on either. I think price of the box set was a factor, and that Rackham minis don't lend well to mass painting. Although I haven't looked much at the figs in the new box sets.

Rackham's pricing is a mixed bag. Some of their bigger character type figs are way overpriced. Something like 50/60 bucks the on of the big minotaur characters? (bad). OTOH, the ragnorak box sets typically have about 10 metal figures in them and sell for about $26 (good). Then there's the (lusted after) goblin pirate box that's about 50 bucks (something less than 10 figs -- could be cheaper).

Loaf32
11-06-2005, 18:30
Yeah, they have some odd pricing scales. I don't know about a $50-60 character, but I could be off. I think Rag will have a slow and steady upswing in the states. It took folks on the forums quite a while to start really contributing to the Rag forum. Hell, I'm still working on three different armies and haven't played my first game of Rag yet. Also, I think a lot of folks get into Con as opposed to Rag for the skirmish-level game aspect of things. That's just me, though.

-Loaf

Thundergod
13-06-2005, 16:53
I have to second the odd pricing structure- GW doesn't have total claim to "most expensive" figs anymore, I picked up the Lion cav box, awesome figs as expected but at $15/ model, a bit pricey. The lion guard box came in at $24 for 8 guys and 3 weapon choices, at $3.00 each, not a bad deal for basic troops.

As to the book I saw, i'm sure you guys are correct, especially since when it comes to Rackham, i have next to no idea what i am talking about. . .

What's the deal with Hybrid? Is it a confrontation "spacehulk" type thing? It looks fairly cool, but not cool enough to spend $80 to find out.

Take care,
TG

Keravin
13-06-2005, 21:56
Yeah Space Hulk ish, but very nicely done and oodles of atmosphere behind it.

Plus it gives you some nice starting sets for two Confrontation forces.

billr
14-06-2005, 02:30
I know more than one person who gave up trying to assemble the figs in the box. One guy quit Rackham completely out of disgust.

jazzdude78
14-06-2005, 03:25
anybody happen to have the oracle issue one with a review of it in it
yknow the pdf copy?
My main problem is that it doesnt have any goblins in the box(iirc) and well the new samurai goblins are just fantastic

Loaf32
14-06-2005, 03:33
I know more than one person who gave up trying to assemble the figs in the box. One guy quit Rackham completely out of disgust.

That's pretty naff, billr. Not to be rude or anything, but the most difficult aspect of assembling those models is switching the pin vice to have a small bit in it. I have both Hybrid and Nemesis, and didn't encounter any problems with any of the models. What issues did your friend face during assembly? I'd hate to think someone would not play Rackham games or use their products because of some assembly issues. If so, I have two words:
LAND SPEEDER :p

-Loaf

billr
15-06-2005, 04:44
He's no kid. In fact, he's one of the best painters I know. I can't imagine him doing a land speeder.

On some levels I agree with him too. A good sculpt doesn't always make a good miniature. And some of the tiny bits that Rackham expects you to deal with are a bit rediculous IMHO. And those particular miniatures really aren't very good products.

Lanyfs' anyone?

Loaf32
15-06-2005, 19:02
I love the Lanyfhs. Evvabody gives them a hard time, but I love them. To be honest, though, the Lanyfhs are not the easiest models to put together in a secure fashion.

billr
17-06-2005, 01:22
the lanyfs are very cool sculpts. I have 3 lanyfs and then the two characters. All serious pain to get together w/o pining.

All I need to do is find time to paint the bases on the little ladies...

angelofrage
28-06-2005, 03:41
ive been looking at some of these minitures and they seem pretty cool. 1 question though, what sort of scale are they compared to GW minis? because i was planning on using a few bits from them in some conversions im planning. Like using this guys (http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=234&ref=FRSCCR04&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=4) head on a Daemon Prince. also this mini (http://www.rackham-store.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=475&ref=UKDRCH04&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=27) would make a brilliant Chaos Beast Lord.
has anybody else mixed GW and Confrontation minis together or has anybody a scale comparison pic?

Thundergod
29-06-2005, 20:20
The figs are somewhat lager in scale than GW. For things like monsters, or large creatures, it would be pretty easy to get away with. Standard troops and especially mixed units (not sure why someone would do this, but if) would stick out quite a bit, perhaps to the point of sillyness.

billr
01-07-2005, 02:39
Here you go...

http://www.wegotgame.net/jen/scale.html

Thundergod
07-07-2005, 14:29
One problem i had was quite a few of the rackham figs i picked up over the last five or so years were the french variety. While you can order cards from their store, I found this site-
Void Gamers- Confrontation (http://confrontation.voidgamers.com/)
It has scans of most cards in both english and french, as well as the assorted fluff bits, etc etc. Once you key in on the slightly un-intuitive menues, its a great site for anyone wanting to play or learn more about the games/figs/stuff that Rackham puts out.
It will be interesting to see if Rackham keeps their policys loose with regards to fan sites- they seem to understand its critical at this stage to build as much customer base as possible-and to get people like me (who has purchased figs willy nilly based on looks) to move from only painting to actually building armies and playing.
I wonder if (when) they become larger we will see this kind of site dry up as they move to controll the all importent IP. Sorry if i got a bit random there.
Cheers,
TG

Loaf32
08-07-2005, 00:52
Not random at all. I think that Rackham will most likely continue to allow fansites like that to function normally, as they've come out with Con 3 in French and allowed people to post new rules, spells, abilities, etc on the boards without any incident. As a matter of fact, there's a 330 page thread on the english forums that detail all of those, and not once has there been a threat to delete or lock the thread.

Rackham's strategy seems to rely on letting the product do the talking. A lot of players are not content with just getting card scans online, but want to actually own the product due to it's quality. I think that Rackham has little chance of turning the way of GW.


-Loaf

erion
08-07-2005, 13:25
I'll have to back Loaf up on that one. Rackham is unusually forthcoming in allowing us to discuss rules, mode stats, etc online. Part of that might be that they truly do make money from selling models, and the models almost always include the stats anyway.

Confrontation is one game where you almost never hear of someone not wanting to use the model that the company provides for a given unit.

inquisitorautry
09-07-2005, 03:54
The thing about the fansites is that they allow someone to look at all the cards a mini comes with before buying the mini. Some of the heroic characters come with a crap load of cards and knowing what your getting is also a good thing.

The other area the sites help with is spells. The system Rackham uses means that spells that can be used by one faction might come in a completely different factions blister (this is especially true with divination magic). Most people don't want to spend $20-30 on a mini they will never use just for a spell card or two. The sites with scans of cards allow you the magic that you want without having to spend a crap load more money on other minis.

Czevak
10-07-2005, 22:18
Anyone know a good , easy to use place to buy Rackham stuff in the UK?

Loaf32
11-07-2005, 01:52
Well, I can't help with the UK stores.

To the point of the openess of Rackham and their IP, it looks like they're about to persue becoming a publicly held company. Hopefully, it won't do to them what it did to GW. We'll just have to see. For now, it looks like all is well, but we'll see what happens when the shareholders come into the picture. :rolleyes:



-Loaf

owen matthew
08-08-2005, 08:31
so, I learned how to play Confrontation in Italian, while living in Italy and I hated it. But I never got over the models... without a doubt the best ever created. I hear there are new rules comming and I saw the preview at Endgame in Oakland, CA. tonight. Is this newer edition going to be very diferent? Also, is Ragnarok any good? Thank you all for all or the links... they have been very helpful!

Keravin
08-08-2005, 09:31
They've tightened up some of the rules with Conf 3 and also made it easier for new people to get into without needing to spend several years trying to understand the rulebook.

Not played Ragnarok yet, but it looks good.