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Camman1984
07-02-2013, 06:40
Simple one this one. Why do they wear black and blue reapectively and would it be heresyfor them not to?

ftayl5
07-02-2013, 08:27
In both cases it would not, ever be considered something even remotely close to heresy.
It's basically because the codex astartes says so. Same with apothecaries who wear white armour, to make them known and visible to others in battle.
Librarians should also be singled out because they're pyskers and some may wish to keep their distance from them.

However the codex also says (don't remember where I read this but anyway) that a company should occasionally change their squad colours and uniforms when facing the same enemy in a series of battles.

Also Space Wolves have librarians (sort of) and they don't follow this.

tl;dr to make them visible, to make them visible and no.

Camman1984
07-02-2013, 11:31
That sounds good. I am leaning toward armour that it mostly chapter coloured with maybe a blue shoulderpad.

baphomael
07-02-2013, 11:54
Yea basically its Codex Astartes tradition, but im not sure where thr symbolism originates from. Techmarines, at least, wear red to show their duel allegiance with Mars.

m1acca1551
07-02-2013, 12:16
Blue shoulder pad denoting that the wearer is a psyker is fine, most of the time it is for simple recognition purposes or to symbolise the difference that there office holds, they are astartes yet of a certain office.

Chaplains wear black as a symbol of eternal mourning for the emperor, theres is a bleak joyless task so the armour reflects this.

And so on :)

Grndhog89
07-02-2013, 12:31
Do DA libbies and chaplains follow this color scheme? I am pretty sure the DW Libs and Chaplains do not. What about RW and standard company librarians/chaplains? I know for sure Interrogator Chaplains look very different.

Leftenant Gashrog
07-02-2013, 13:33
Do DA libbies and chaplains follow this color scheme?

Yes they do, behold Ezekiel, Grand Master of Librarians:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1240855_99060101326_DAEzekielmain_873x627.jpg
And the Interrogator-Chaplain Asmodai
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2860219a_99800101056_Asmodai03_873x627.jpg

Both wear dresses over their armour, but the armour itself is in the codex prescribed colour.

There is no such thing as a Deathwing or Ravenwing Librarian, Librarians are only attached to companies on a temporary basis. I'm pretty certain Deathwing no longer has a regular Chaplain - they did back in Codex: Angels of Death but the difference between a regular and an Interrogator-Chaplain wasn't actually fleshed out until 4th edition - and as we can see from Asmodai, they wear black. Ravenwing Chaplain.. I imagine would wear regular black, there is precedent for other chapters colour swapping in event of a clash but not since 2nd edition.

Lothlanathorian
07-02-2013, 14:34
And Mephiston is an example of a Librarian not wearing the traditional blue.

Also, it's been forever since I've looked at that model, but, I think Ezekial has been my favorite 40K model since I got into this game back in 2nd Edition. Just looking at that pic gave me the weirdest nostalgia feeling.

Harwammer
07-02-2013, 14:43
Out of universe reason: I guess when librarians, apothecaries, techmarines and chaplains were introduced their appearance wasn't that visually divergent from standard marine models. The colours helped an opponent pick out the model and gave them a clue it wasn't just a standard marine?

Camman1984
07-02-2013, 16:56
That makes sense actually some of the old sculpts were very vague. I think with modern sculpts its so much easier to tell.

Ezekiel is a brilliant model, has aged quite well.

I feel that having things like your apothecaries dressed in white, makes them scream shoot me!! As much as those back banners.

TheDungen
07-02-2013, 16:59
even codex astartes say that you can only keep the squad marking shoulderpad in the colour and even then not all chapter give a damn about what the codex says.
I also agree with harwammer its a gameplay issue made into fluff just make sure you tell your opponent what is what and there really should be no issues.

if you keep one shoulder pad in the codex colour neither you opponent nor roboute guilliman himself could complain.

ac4155
07-02-2013, 17:07
I thought I read somewhere that Librarians where in blue partly so they could be easily identified and shot should they turn and be taken/corrupted by the warp/chaos.

Though that doesn't really make sense for all chapters, e.g. Ultramarines.

Lord Damocles
07-02-2013, 19:53
'Index Astartes: Psykana Librarius' [Librarians] in White Dwarf 259 (UK), pg.59 shows a White Scars Storm Seer [Librarian] in Chapter colours with blue right arm and shoulder pad; a Salamanders Librarian with blue right arm, shoulder pad, and helmet; and a Raven Guard Librarian with only the left shoulder pad blue (Terminator armour), so not having entirely blue armour isn't unheard of.
Space Wolves Rune Priests and Grey Knight Librarians are also shown in Chapter colours in their various Codexes.

Dhazzakull
09-02-2013, 16:42
Space Wolves aren't really known to follow rules, and because all grey knights are psykers it would be obsolete show it on their armour.

ryng_sting
09-02-2013, 17:34
All DA Librarians are Deathwing. They're automatically inducted to help out with the interrogations.

Leftenant Gashrog
09-02-2013, 18:45
and because all grey knights are psykers it would be obsolete show it on their armour.

Grey Knights are all psykers, but they still have distinct librarians who are denoted by blue tabards.

Lothlanathorian
10-02-2013, 09:38
At that point, I would expect the title focuses more on the other aspects of the position. Lore-keeping and advising.

Sandlemad
10-02-2013, 12:37
The old bit of Emperor's Champion background about Sigismund had him questioning why he had to paint his armour black. The chaplain armouring him replied that this was to show that, like the chaplains, he served the emperor directly. This might've been changed with the HH fluff (the Emperor's Champion's black is either to do with Sigismund's original personal heraldry or Dorn's mourning garb) but I'd say it still holds up about the chaplains.

Lord-Caerolion
10-02-2013, 12:46
At that point, I would expect the title focuses more on the other aspects of the position. Lore-keeping and advising.

Grey Knight Librarians are those who are strong enough psychically to use their own power independantly. Most other Grey Knights use the Aegis to focus their powers, hiding themselves within the psychic gestalt of their squad. Librarians are those Grey Knights strong enough to not need that protection.

Kiro
10-02-2013, 13:35
Apothecaries, easy - the color white has been associated with medicine since at least 1850.

Chaplains, wild hunch, but I figure it was something to do with the Blood Angels' Wardens from Fear to Tread, whose duties (minus the spirituality) mirror M41 Chaplains. More pertinent, their armour is black and they have skull-faced helmets.

Librarians we've yet to see, an explanation. Maybe Guilliman manages to get the Edict of Nikea rescinded and the blue armour is an homage to him and the Ultramarines?

Also, OP, please note, Chaplains aside, there is some mutability in the color schemes for Librarians and Apothecaries. Apothecaries, for example have an alternate scheme where only their helmet and right shoulder pad is white, the rest of their armour is painted in the colors of their Chapter. Librarians in 2nd ed were mostly blue, saving the left arm and shoulder pad for Chapter colors. Other posters have here have also pointed out variations on the Librarian color scheme.

Leftenant Gashrog
10-02-2013, 17:15
Chaplains can have some variance as well, in the previous marine Codex there was a Chaplain that was mostly in chapter-colours, back in RT it was fairly common for Chaplains to have legs in their* chapter colours.

* unless the Eavy Metal department was feeling lazy in which case they might have another Chapters colours..

Camman1984
10-02-2013, 18:18
I am quite satisfied from peoples responses that i wont get a "THATS NOT A LIBRARIAN!!" When my librarian rocks up in chapter colours. Thanks

Iball17
10-02-2013, 18:34
In 2nd it was department over chapter. But as the editions went on they are getting away from that mostly because it looks more cohesive even if it is contrary to fluff. I will say the 3rd command squad looked odd with everyone being painted differently.