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Inquisitor Shego
09-02-2013, 06:38
What would happen if a Fallen exalted as a Daemon Prince? Sorry if this has been asked. Just wondering if it's plausible from a background point of view.

budman
09-02-2013, 06:57
I have no idea what would happen How I know it would be awesome!

librerian_samae
09-02-2013, 08:17
A dark angel grand master tracks one down to the daemon world 'new caliban' and punks him in the new codex, it's stated as one of the biggest achievements throughout the annals of the unforgiven.

Archaon
09-02-2013, 08:40
What would happen if a Fallen exalted as a Daemon Prince? Sorry if this has been asked. Just wondering if it's plausible from a background point of view.

Why not? Anything is possible in 40K.

As to why a Fallen would work actively for Chaos to even be considered receiving such a gift is anyones guess. The Fallen never struck me as devoted Chaos worshippers unlike Cult Marines or Word Bearers for example. They betrayed the Empire because they were misled by Luthor (who was himself influenced by Chaos) but i'd not call them standard Chaos Marines.

Lothlanathorian
09-02-2013, 08:49
It is explicitly stated that some Fallen have turned to worshiping Chaos.

Inquisitor Shego
09-02-2013, 08:52
A dark angel grand master tracks one down to the daemon world 'new caliban' and punks him in the new codex, it's stated as one of the biggest achievements throughout the annals of the unforgiven.

That is *bleeping* awesome and badass. Superb. Thank you Samae :D

TheDungen
09-02-2013, 14:18
yeah except the daemon isnt dead. they really cant destroy a fallen turned daemonprince so sure banish him back to the warp for a thousand years and a day but then you'll just have to keep doing what you can do.

Camman1984
09-02-2013, 17:57
I think you can kill a demon prince as it has a tangible physical form to destroy and is just a mortal with some special tricks. Demons cant be killed as they are just temporary shape of a non physical entity. Thats how i understand it anyway

DarthMarko
09-02-2013, 18:10
What if Lionel Johnson turned into a DP while in stasis? This would be a real nightmare...

Camman1984
09-02-2013, 18:38
What if it turns out that all along lionel was the bad guy and the remaining dark angels are actually the fallen and have been tricked into doing the bidding of an all powerful undead lord whos only interest is total domination and the eradication of all other faith systems?

BooTMGSG
09-02-2013, 18:46
What if Lionel Johnson turned into a DP while in stasis? This would be a real nightmare...
Nope Johnson is in a controlled enviroment so there is no chance of their secret getting out.

Their true nightmare is Cypher reaching the Golden throne and telling on them.

Turion Rilyaloce
09-02-2013, 22:28
Isn't it stated that the emperor already knows about the fall of caliban? Just as he is the only being besides the watchers that knows of Jonsons whereabouts.

The bearded one
10-02-2013, 05:45
Isn't it stated that the emperor already knows about the fall of caliban? Just as he is the only being besides the watchers that knows of Jonsons whereabouts.

Well, that is mostly stated with the snide undertone of "he knows.. Cause he's a god! God-emperor of mankind, he knows everything! Praaaaaaaise him!"

m1acca1551
10-02-2013, 07:44
Cypher calling traitors anonymous and telling all to the sympathetic inquistor on the other line...

LexxBomb
10-02-2013, 10:25
I think you can kill a demon prince as it has a tangible physical form to destroy and is just a mortal with some special tricks. Demons cant be killed as they are just temporary shape of a non physical entity. Thats how i understand it anyway

The Eldar have a sword that CAN destroy a demon... Its the Black Crystal Sword and was created to destroy Slannesh... see novel "Farseer" by William King... Its in the lore - and seems to be the only way to actually kill a demon.

TheDungen
10-02-2013, 10:41
I think you can kill a demon prince as it has a tangible physical form to destroy and is just a mortal with some special tricks. Demons cant be killed as they are just temporary shape of a non physical entity. Thats how i understand it anyway

destroying a daemonprinces physical form sends it back to the warp for a thousand years and a day (it also weakens their presences in the warp making them more likely to get eaten by something bigger, they can get out of the thousand years and a day thing by going to the forge of souls). Wouldn't be much of immortality if it just meant immortal from age space marines already are that. also Angron died at Armageddon but is still around.'

to destroy a daemonpricne you'd have to destroy him in the war and absorb his essence. other daemons can do that and chaos gods can do that but mortals cant.


The Eldar have a sword that CAN destroy a demon... Its the Black Crystal Sword and was created to destroy Slannesh... see novel "Farseer" by William King... Its in the lore - and seems to be the only way to actually kill a demon.

except this way it seems. is that the same black sword as was mentioned to rest on one of the planets in the eye during the EoT campaign?

viv714r
10-02-2013, 15:28
There is one other way of banishing warp presence. The Emperor annihilated Horus' warp presence with his psychic powers, so he must be able to permanently kill daemons. Could the DA imprison a DP Fallen though? It would be interesting to see what Asmodai could do to one, would the Blades of Reason work on it?

MajorWesJanson
10-02-2013, 15:33
to destroy a daemonpricne you'd have to destroy him in the war and absorb his essence. other daemons can do that and chaos gods can do that but mortals cant.

Not a daemon prince, but Prophantiti and Eisenhorn would like to argue the "mortals can't destroy a daemon's essence" point.

TheDungen
10-02-2013, 19:15
I'm guessing that took special circumstances though right wes? otherwise i blame the writer not doing his research.

as for the emperor he created Horus of course he would know how to destroy him properly. also the emperor is way ore powerful in the warp than most daemon princes.

Kiro
10-02-2013, 19:26
Isn't it stated that the emperor already knows about the fall of caliban? Just as he is the only being besides the watchers that knows of Jonsons whereabouts.

Speaking of which, has it ever been mentioned in the fluff about anyone asking the obvious questions "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and....what happened to Caliban?"

NemoSD
10-02-2013, 19:52
Speaking of which, has it ever been mentioned in the fluff about anyone asking the obvious questions "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and....what happened to Caliban?"

Yep, they answer it fell to Chaos stragglers, and El'Jonson was lost in the battle to stem the tide, giving himself to protect the Imperium and save as many of the Dark Angels as possible. Which is 100% true.

katyusha77
10-02-2013, 20:51
Speaking of which, has it ever been mentioned in the fluff about anyone asking the obvious questions "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and....what happened to Caliban?"
Inquisitor Randomguy come to the Rock and ask "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and what happened to Caliban?"
Two months later, Inquisitor Notthesameguy come to the Rock and ask "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and what happened to Caliban, and... where's Inquisitor Randomguy?"

Lothlanathorian
10-02-2013, 22:43
Inquisitor Randomguy come to the Rock and ask "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and what happened to Caliban?"
Two months later, Inquisitor Notthesameguy come to the Rock and ask "Where's Lion El'Jonson gone and what happened to Caliban, and... where's Inquisitor Randomguy?"

I don't actually laugh out loud very often, but, you, sir, have won from me one single internets.

Flame Boy
10-02-2013, 23:00
Not from what I can recall. Eisenhorn encountered a daemonhost and destroyed it using his runestaff. I don't remember anything saying it was impossible to destroy the essence of a daemon, only that it's difficult. Saying that, I've not bothered to look at the daemon codex, so it's likely any info of that kind would be there.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Prophaniti#.URgzpnXJZoY

NemoSD
10-02-2013, 23:10
Not from what I can recall. Eisenhorn encountered a daemonhost and destroyed it using his runestaff. I don't remember anything saying it was impossible to destroy the essence of a daemon, only that it's difficult. Saying that, I've not bothered to look at the daemon codex, so it's likely any info of that kind would be there.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Prophaniti#.URgzpnXJZoY


Yes, but remember that rune staff was designed by a Human Genius steeped in the magics of Chaos.

bittick
11-02-2013, 04:46
It's not really that big a problem. They can still capture the demon prince and torture him for thousands of years. "Oh you can't die? ...Good."

RunepriestRidcully
11-02-2013, 11:06
Just got to hope he's not dedicated to Slaanesh :P

TheDungen
11-02-2013, 11:43
Well since the grey knight place daemons in those labyrinth thingies because they cant destroy them it seems strange that a inquisitor would just be able to destroy a daemon at will.

NemoSD
11-02-2013, 17:19
Well since the grey knight place daemons in those labyrinth thingies because they cant destroy them it seems strange that a inquisitor would just be able to destroy a daemon at will.

Eisenhorn didn't exactly do it at will, been a while since I read the book, but he had a Chaos tuned Runestaff that even the tech-priest who did the work on it was like, "Uhh... If I didn't owe you one... this would not be..." and I believe he charged it with Cherubeals banishment... so he used chaos magic, and the energies of another demon to kill Prophantiti... It is actually why his peeps were concerned that Osma was correct when he arrested Eisenhorn. (Nevermind that was just the beginning of Eisenhorn's dissent into the radical.)

Sandlemad
11-02-2013, 18:08
That daemon prince was pretty bad but more so for making a DA-based world called New Caliban. That's sure to attract notice.

Come to think of it, wouldn't it be a much worse nightmare for a member of the Fallen to become an Inquisitor? Or some high up member of the Adeptus Terra or whatever? Practically impossible, I know, but there's psychic junk to get around the astartes-size, or displace fields or something. And hey, if a necron can do it...
Normally they turn up as warlords of backwater worlds or minor warbands, Chaotic or otherwise, but this seems much more potentially devastating to the DA.

The Emperor
11-02-2013, 18:34
There's no way that can happen. People will notice an 8-foot-tall Space Marine. And how a displacer field could possibly cover that up, I have no clue.

KingDeath
11-02-2013, 18:35
Not a daemon prince, but Prophantiti and Eisenhorn would like to argue the "mortals can't destroy a daemon's essence" point.

Eisenhorn merely believes that he destroyed Prophaniti. The actual status of the daemon is unknown ( one has to wonder how the creature that killed the great Voke could be utterly destroyed by a rather mediocre psyker like Eisenhorn ).

Kiro
11-02-2013, 19:17
There's no way that can happen. People will notice an 8-foot-tall Space Marine. And how a displacer field could possibly cover that up, I have no clue.

In The Bleeding Chalice there's an 8-foot tall Soul Drinkers reject running around in sackcloth. Make of that what you will.

NemoSD
11-02-2013, 19:35
Eisenhorn merely believes that he destroyed Prophaniti. The actual status of the daemon is unknown ( one has to wonder how the creature that killed the great Voke could be utterly destroyed by a rather mediocre psyker like Eisenhorn ).

I believe Eisenhorn killed it, Eisenhorn cheated. Voke followed the rules, Eisenhorn used Chaos.

TheDungen
11-02-2013, 20:06
the only way to fight chaos. as for new caliban the name is only an issue if the planet is within the imperium. and even then there a billions of stars in the galaxy.

Sandlemad
11-02-2013, 23:07
There's no way that can happen. People will notice an 8-foot-tall Space Marine. And how a displacer field could possibly cover that up, I have no clue.

In Deathwing Two Heads Talking comfortably makes himself look like a normal looking human. Passive psychic power. Certainly not easy if you were seeking entry into an organisation like the inquisition but if you were to gently step into an inquisitor's identity after disposing of his/her body, it could work.
Or a mind-transfer like the one with Pontius Glaw in Eisenhorn, into another, more subtle body. Or some polymorphine/surgery-like thing. There's ways, it fits into the other thread on this too. You'd have to have a Fallen Angel really really dedicated to making life difficult for the DA.*
So almost impossible but "the galaxy's a bit place" covers it (even allowing that I had entirely the wrong idea about what a displacer field does...:P).

* A less unlikely version of this scenario would be a Fallen Angel manipulating an inquisitor or inquisitors behind the scenes, through a network of cults or other organisations, with the downfall of the Dark Angels as his aim. Inquisitors have been manipulated by lesser beings and such cults have been set up by other Traitors, so this is well possible. Now that would cause trouble.

Grimbad
11-02-2013, 23:21
In Deathwing Two Heads Talking comfortably makes himself look like a normal looking human. Passive psychic power.

Lexandro does it in the old Inquisition War books pretty easily- and Watson seemed to have a very solid grasp on how huge a seven-foot-tall, three-feet-wide, two-feet-thick man is. This is the Imperium. In addition to natural human variation, there's an awful lot of unnatural human variation floating around. Most people haven't ever seen a space marine, let alone one outside his armor, but on a well connected planet they'll likely have seen hulking deathworlders or augmented servitors or vat-grown soldiers or a dozen other things.

And not all the Fallen are proper Marines anyways.

TheDungen
12-02-2013, 08:20
yeah for a normal human in the imperium seeing a space marine is like seeing an angel. ever you ever see one you'll try to rationalise it in any number of ways before admitting what you've actually seen.

bittick
15-02-2013, 00:36
Just got to hope he's not dedicated to Slaanesh :P

They just put on a continuous recording of Roboute Guilleman lecturing about the importance of brushing your teeth twice a day.


There's no way that can happen. People will notice an 8-foot-tall Space Marine. And how a displacer field could possibly cover that up, I have no clue.

Marines aren't 8 feet tall.

grumbaki
17-02-2013, 19:26
They just put on a continuous recording of Roboute Guilleman lecturing about the importance of brushing your teeth twice a day.

I believe that tactic was first used by the Dark Eldar.

TheDungen
17-02-2013, 21:37
oh so that was what the Fabius Bile dark eldar exchange was about.

Sappysid101
17-02-2013, 22:30
Doesn't the new codex actually say he's alive and chilling in the Rock? My friend has the book and said something about The Lion actually being alive and loving life.

- Sid

TheDungen
17-02-2013, 23:43
the lion has always been alive,The lion has been taken by the watchers in the dark, to return one day and forgive Luther and the fallen... at least so luther says. thats all the dark angels know, what we know is that the lion sleeps in magical sleep deep in the rock watched over by the watchers, his wounds long since healed.

Inquisitor Shego
19-02-2013, 04:59
Just on the subject of Eisenhorn, bear in mind this is Dan Abnett who writes Mary Sue characters for a living and decided a planet would have skimmer tech in its cars because lulz. :s