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Tyrelli
10-02-2013, 13:36
Say like the American Constitution .. in that if an enemy or situation that the imperium come across is new or current Codex Astartes tatics do not work can the Codex Astartes be added to or amended ?
Another reson might be something techno wise may become avalible (From say a Discoverd STC) and needs incorperating ..

And if It CAN be amended who would have the authority ?

baphomael
10-02-2013, 15:16
A good question. At its inception, under Guilliman, the codex was an ongoing process of development.
Having said that id imagine the current codex is pretty sacrosanct. Guilliman is hailed as a tactical and strategic genius who was able to plan for every potential. Id imagine as far as Codex chapters go if its not in the book it's barely worth knowing.

Having said that, even the Ultras try new things, what with tyrannic war veterans etc. Yet, id imagine it being more an adaptation of existing doctrine rather than an 'ammendment' per se. The Codex seems to be a 'rule 34' of marine warfare - if you can imagine it, its probably somewhere in the Codex.

On the other hand, the Tactica is a constantly evolving body of work that grows exponentially with more volumes than any individual could compile together. Id imagine some additions to the Tactica may have been contributed by astartes on occasions when guard and marine forces have been drawn together.

Son of Sanguinius
10-02-2013, 15:25
Depends whether Alpharius has any free time to make his weekly changes. ;)

My opinion is that it is treated with too much reverence to be altered. The alterations are seen, as baphomael suggests, in the interpretation of the literature.

Lord_Crull
10-02-2013, 15:28
It certainly can be altered. It states so right in the actual source material.


"The Codex Astartes further defines the tactical roles, equipment specifications and uniform identification markings of the Space Marines. These guidelines have evolved over the centuries, and the Codex Astartes of the forty first millennium is a highly developed treatise combining the wisdom of hundreds of military thinkers throughout history." -5th Edition Codex Space Marines.

There you have it. The Codex grows and evolves over the centuries from contributions from generals. In addition, the sourcebooks for the Deathwatch RPG explain that new additions are also added to the Codex by the Ultramarines.

MajorWesJanson
10-02-2013, 15:29
I wouldn't think so much amendments as "living document" arguments. "See, these tactics fit with the spirit of the writ of camouflage, even if they modify the listed patterns."

BooTMGSG
10-02-2013, 16:14
I suspect it is largely unaltered. However, it would be heavily appended, with new chapters on threats that weren't around in 30K, mostly Necron (ok there but not active), Tyranid and Tau

terradax
10-02-2013, 16:44
Aren't there several "chapters" that still count themselves as legion since they never accepted the Codex? I'm thinking about Salamanders (who believe Vulkan will return), Iron Hands and Space Wolves.

A.T.
10-02-2013, 17:01
Aren't there several "chapters" that still count themselves as legion since they never accepted the Codex? I'm thinking about Salamanders (who believe Vulkan will return), Iron Hands and Space Wolves.The salamanders follow a variation of the normal codex organisation, but are not a legion - variant organisation is common in many chapters. The iron hands appear to be even more divergent than most.

The wolves and templars do not follow the codex astartes at all.

The dark angels are formed into chapters but maintain close links to the point where the high lords do not use their geneseed for new chapters out of fear that the DA are legion building.

Leftenant Gashrog
10-02-2013, 17:05
Yes to amendments, one of the vehicle IA's (Predator I think) mentioned that the Imperial Fists wanted to add a chapter on defeating tanks with cybernetically embedded crews but it was blocked by the Iron Hands.


Aren't there several "chapters" that still count themselves as legion since they never accepted the Codex? I'm thinking about Salamanders (who believe Vulkan will return), Iron Hands and Space Wolves.

None of them adopted the codex in its entirety but all of them eventually relented to downsizing to (relatively) chapter sized formations:
The Iron Hands Legion was broken up into the Iron Hands, Brazen Claws and Red Talons.
The Space Wolves Legion was broken up into the Space Wolves and the Wolf Brothers (tho may still be above-size)
The Salamanders didn't have enough marines left to necessitate breaking up, the Salamanders post-heresy organisation is less than 800 marines (6 oversized companies plus a half strength scout company).

TheDungen
10-02-2013, 19:09
i would guess they add at the end rather than change. kind of like the letter in the bible.

ryng_sting
11-02-2013, 16:38
Some sources imply it's always being updated - although not everyone's going to get access to the latest copy. The Imperial Fists were going to have some of their insights on beating cybernetically-linked vehicles included, following a successful campaign against the Iron Warriors. Then the Iron Hands stepped in and had the process stopped - it would have endangered their own forces.

TheDungen
11-02-2013, 20:13
my guess would be there is someone on terra with the job to decide what goes in the codex and not, advised by the adeptus astartes of course. No astartes chapter is allowed to have influence over any other that's legion building (although most break that to some extent) so no one chapter can decide what goes in the codex. The onlyother option is that there is a council with representatives from all codex chapters that makes these decisions, but i doubt the high lords would neglect putting one of their people in there too. as an observer at least.