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Vipoid
11-02-2013, 22:47
A horde of Bloodletters ended up in combat with a WoC sorcerer on a Warshrine of Chaos.

They kill the sorcerer (but not the warshrine) and win combat.

The warshrine is required to take a Ld test (since it lost combat)... but has no Ld value.

The chariot master is the only one with a Ld value. The sorcerer replaced him, but now that he's dead, the model has Ld "-".

So, what happens? :p

Bloodedsoul
11-02-2013, 23:04
Auto break? I believe if you are required to take a test, and the characterist is 0 it's an auto fail

Vipoid
12-02-2013, 10:48
Auto break? I believe if you are required to take a test, and the characterist is 0 it's an auto fail

There are two problems with that:

1) A Ld test isn't a normal characteristic test - the "auto-fail when characteristic is 0" rule is only mentioned for other characteristic tests.

2) It doesn't have Ld0, it has Ld "-".

Mid'ean
12-02-2013, 11:05
Well you can always try to roll a "-" but I think your chances are slim.....:p Or you can go with the part about a natural unmodified roll of 2 "double 1's" is always considered to pass. So roll and hope for insane courage. Otherwise your breaking. But I think I remember a FAQ somewhere about LD of 0 "-" whatever auto failing also...just havn't a clue where.....

Hallock
12-02-2013, 11:26
That will probably be in the eratta. Thats the first time I've seen that for any mount, chariot, what have you.

herohammer
12-02-2013, 17:27
yeah it is clearly an oversight. Nothing else in the game can lose a part of the model that will leave the rest with LD-

(every other multipart model with LD- values either dies all at once or is a warmachine in which case it isn't really a multipart model in this addition considering the rules for crew.

Actually now that I think of it...does a demon bound warmachine for CD have an LD value? I know that they never have faq exactly how that rule works (it can live with no crew left? then what happens as far as shooting goes?). That might be another example of where you can actually get LD- in an ordinary game situation, although it is more due to bad writing than anything intentional I think.

theunwantedbeing
12-02-2013, 18:27
Auto-fail when you have a stat value of -/0.

Double 1 passes regardless for break tests though.

Baaltor
12-02-2013, 19:57
There are two problems with that:

1) A Ld test isn't a normal characteristic test - the "auto-fail when characteristic is 0" rule is only mentioned for other characteristic tests.

2) It doesn't have Ld0, it has Ld "-".

I might be not be pertinent here, as I only know 5th ed. WH40K rules, but if they are similar:

A morale test is a special kind of Ld. test, so under those rules, it still applies the auto fail mechanic of other tests. Just because it's more explicite, it doesn't mean it's exempt from the basics.

Flame
13-02-2013, 08:39
There are two problems with that:

1) A Ld test isn't a normal characteristic test - the "auto-fail when characteristic is 0" rule is only mentioned for other characteristic tests.

2) It doesn't have Ld0, it has Ld "-".

A characteristic of "-" is the same as 0, its on page 4 of the small rulebook.

The FAQ also says it fails automatically.


yeah it is clearly an oversight. Nothing else in the game can lose a part of the model that will leave the rest with LD-

(every other multipart model with LD- values either dies all at once or is a warmachine in which case it isn't really a multipart model in this addition considering the rules for crew.



Screaming Bells and Plague Furnaces can both be left with LD 0.

jtrowell
13-02-2013, 11:44
Wait a minute, if the rider of a chariot is killed, what remains is the chariot model that itself is a composite model, one part being the chariot/shrine itself, and the other being the horses/monster/carriers.

In the case of the shrine, is there a Ld value for the carriers ?

Vipoid
13-02-2013, 11:50
Wait a minute, if the rider of a chariot is killed, what remains is the chariot model that itself is a composite model, one part being the chariot/shrine itself, and the other being the horses/monster/carriers.

In the case of the shrine, is there a Ld value for the carriers ?

Nope. Only the chariot master (or whatever he's called), and the Sorcerer replaces him.

shakedown47
13-02-2013, 17:18
RAW an unmanned warshrine will auto-fail when required to make a break check, no questions asked. If you and your play group would like to create a house rule that gives the warshrine a base Ld of 8 that certainly wouldn't be out of hand, since that is the Ld of a "normal" warshrine.