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mariote
13-02-2013, 09:55

- do Chosen get to roll 4D6 at the beginning if they are 12'' from a warshrine, and discard 2D6?

IMO, no. I think they will faq this, as this has nonsense to make chosen a little cheesy again, i think these both rules don't make sense together and with chosen you just roll 3D6 and discard a single dice (as the rule is written, otherwise you would be discarding 2D6).

what do you think?

MyNameDidntFit
13-02-2013, 10:00
Chosen you roll 3D6 and discard one.

Thus Chosen roll 4D6 and discard two.

This is not cheesy at all because there's no longer any ridiculous 4++/Stubborn roll for them. Sure, you might get a DP. But double six on four dice is still not very likely.

Darkminion
13-02-2013, 10:08
Can someone do the math on having 3 units of 5 Chosen with a champ and thus rolling 3x4d6, what are the odds of getting a Deamonprince?

D...

mariote
13-02-2013, 10:17
Chosen you roll 3D6 and discard one.

Thus Chosen roll 4D6 and discard two.

This is not cheesy at all because there's no longer any ridiculous 4++/Stubborn roll for them. Sure, you might get a DP. But double six on four dice is still not very likely.

as it's written, you discard only a single dice, so you would be rolling 4D6 and discard a D6. I'm still not seeing both rules work together.
And the cheesy is what Darkminion wrote.

Kalandros
13-02-2013, 10:26
Boxed cars on 4d6 is 13.2% of the possible rolls.
Both rules work together as both state to drop a single dice. You apply both rules.

So 4d6, drop one for the War Shrine rule, drop one for the Chosen rule.

3 Unmarked Chosen units of 5 with a champ cost 300 pts total to give an unmarked, unequipped daemon prince once every 3 games maybe? Plus cost of war shrine
And the odd luck of 2 or even 3 daemon princes.

Remember you have to pass a LD8 test (no inspiring presence, etc) to have it appear after rolling boxed cars, its not automatic.

Darkminion
13-02-2013, 10:27
Not sure if it is Cheese perce. To do this you are spending about the same points as which would get you 2 buffed up Chimerae or so. Depends of the odds of it succeeding perhaps? If the odds are favorable at least you can design your list for it, but in the end I think I'd rather have 2 Chimerae then a chance of getting an extra Deamonprince.

D...

Asensur
13-02-2013, 12:07
Total amount results of throwing 4D6: 6^4=1296

X is considered any amount between 1 and 5.

Results where 2 you get two 6.

66XX 5^2=25
6X6X 5^2=25
6XX6 5^2=25
X66X 5^2=25
X6X6 5^2=25
XX66 5^2=25

Results where you get three 6

666X 5^1=5
66X6 5^1=5
6X66 5^1=5
X666 5^1=5

Results where you get four 6

6666 1^1=1

This gives us a total of 25*6 + 5*4 + 1= 171 total results

The cance is 171/1296=0.132. We have a 13.2% chance to get daemonhood.

BUT. the champion also must pass a Ld test with his unmodified Leadership

Throwing 2 dice has 36 possible results.

The results to have 8 or less total is

1 + 2 +3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 5 = 26 results where you pass the test. That is a 26/36=0.722. You have a 72.2% chance to pass the test to transform your chosen champion into a Daemon Prince.

Because you need to get both the result of Daemonhood and pass the Ld test, you have a total of 0.132*0.722=0.095.

The total chance to get a daemon prince with a chosen champion at the beginning of the match is 9.5%.

However, the chances for 3 units are

No Daemon Prince at the beginning (3 Fails). The chance of a single unit to fail trying to get Daemonhood is 1 - 0.095 = 0.905

0.905^3= 0.741. You get a total 74.1% of fail to get a DP.

To get 3 DPs the chances are 0.1%

To get 2 DPs the chances are 2.5%

To get 1 DP the chances are 23.3%

Not cheesy at all considering the investment on the 'trick'

BlackPawl
13-02-2013, 13:08
And even then there is the chance that you roll one of two possible scenarios where you roll a dice for each unit if they are on the table or reserve / on which flank they are. Possible that your warshrine will be at the other side of the table ... ;)

Lord Solar Plexus
13-02-2013, 14:38
Or you go last and a cannon already killed the Shrine...better get two or three! ;)

hamsterwheel
13-02-2013, 17:32
No. From what I recall of the book, Chosen perform their roll prior to any models being placed on the table so it would impossible to be within 12 inches of a warshrine to get the bonus to the roll when the Chosen are to roll.

Mr_Rose
13-02-2013, 17:57
No. From what I recall of the book, Chosen perform their roll prior to any models being placed on the table so it would impossible to be within 12 inches of a warshrine to get the bonus to the roll when the Chosen are to roll.

Wrong: Chosen roll immediately after deployment (technically their rule says immediately before deciding who gets the first turn but there is no step between deployment and rolling for firsties) and so can easily be in range of a Shrine or two.

Voss
14-02-2013, 06:45
I highly suspect a clarification is in works for this. Chosen rule specifies unit, warshrine specifies model. Ultimately, I think GW is just going to flatly state that they don't interact at all.

Piercefierce
14-02-2013, 06:56
I highly suspect a clarification is in works for this. Chosen rule specifies unit, warshrine specifies model. Ultimately, I think GW is just going to flatly state that they don't interact at all.

hmmm. Thats a good point. I would almost rather +1 toughness or something anyway.

Darkminion
14-02-2013, 09:31
hmmm. Thats a good point. I would almost rather +1 toughness or something anyway.

Why would you rather have +1 Toughness on a 5 man unit, then having your measly champion transformed into a Deamonprince??

D...

Kalandros
14-02-2013, 17:40
Why would you rather have +1 Toughness on a 5 man unit, then having your measly champion transformed into a Deamonprince??

D...
If you fail that LD8 Test, your unit is stubborn. Not bad but +1T can probably make it never lose combat against most its targets and survive artillery more (Saw one unit of 20 be reduced to a handful after 2 magma cannon shots)