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Bieren
14-02-2013, 07:14
Are tyranids as bad as they say ?

and only got 1 good build?

Ilove the models but I wanne win sometimes also

Alex_H
14-02-2013, 07:22
I feel they are bad. Certainly against the "power" codecs. I've ran numerous different lists and combination and yet to find anything that has the effectiveness of other codexes. With the reductions of cover saves, over watch, amendment to fleet and the possibility of failed charges I find myself often walking away from a game smashing my head against the wall in total defeat

Maksho
14-02-2013, 07:37
What kind of environment do you play in? If you play in a super competitive enviro...errr idk you might want a different army. If you play in a semi competitive environment (like a GW store or something) than I am of the firm belief that they are actually very decent and have quite a few builds to work with.

6th may have hit melee hard, but it made fearless pretty silly as well and the Nids got fearless in spades. Likewise, because heavy AT isn't as necessary in most people's lists the amount of Str 8 heading for your fragile warriors won't be nearly as bad as it once was.

Their is a guy at the store I play at who has upwards of 20k in Nidz (some dating back to the first release) and he mentioned to a group of us that he wins a lot more by wildly changing his list every few weeks to keep people on their toes. It works to an extent too because a lot of the builds for Nidz just don't have any other comparison in other armies and it can get disconcerting facing something that just plays so differently than most other armies.

I imagine Nid vets will come along to provide much better insight though.

Vampiric16
14-02-2013, 08:06
Tyranids are fine in a semi competitive setting, so long as you're not facing spam lists (which aren't fun to play in any case). You are still able to have a decent game with them and won't auto lose by fielding them.
The codex isn't great, and is riddled with stupid content (combat orientated army with no frag equivalent, certain weapons doing the exact same thing etc). However, like I said, it doesn't affect more casual play so much, only really stands out in tournaments and other competitive settings. I regularly trounce my mate's Space Wolves, and won 3 out 5 games at a local tournament (with a fairly balanced list). My advice is not to focus on what doesn't work, but instead focus on what does.

Radium
14-02-2013, 08:17
Are tyranids as bad as they say ?

Short answer: no.

Tyranids were pretty poor in 5th, but in 6th they have gotten a lot better. They're not quite comparable to the best of the best out there (necrons and IG), but can still be a quite capable army. And biomancy spam ist just pure filth as long as you don't see runes of warding across the table.

williamsond
14-02-2013, 08:23
like the above post says if you have your biomancy shut down you have problems if not then you can do really well. at the last tourney i went to the second most represented army was Nids and they did quite well. althought i don't think they are quite top tier, they are a very close second and in 6th have some very good builds out there...and there's always the Doom.

StefDa
14-02-2013, 08:45
Their is a guy at the store I play at who has upwards of 20k in Nidz (some dating back to the first release) and he mentioned to a group of us that he wins a lot more by wildly changing his list every few weeks to keep people on their toes.

Which is as it should be! That's very Tyranid.

Bieren
14-02-2013, 10:45
Ok I only play In a club so no competion yet.

And I realy like the Tyrannofex whit rupture canon.
Already got the model and ready to paint.

But now I thinking to Add some more like a battlion box if iets worth it.
and as hq a Hive whit wings or swamplord

Alex_H
14-02-2013, 13:47
The Tyranofex when I have used it can be very hit and miss. I would have built it as a Tervigon instead of a 'fex. The battleforce is not a bad place to begin with. You'll have 4 troop choices from the get go, although 3 warriors will not get their points back in damage output but will give you the Synapse cover you will need especially if you go for a winged Tyrant. I have two in my army and I love them. They can be a very good especially with the new Biomancy powers. The Swarmlord is I think about the nastiest thing in close combat in 40K and even has the edge in a bloodthirster (the only thing I know of with higher WS) but it has to get in to combat to do damage and it will be a big fire magnet from the get go if your opponent is clued up. Where as the winged tyrant has an element of survivability (6s to hit whilst flying) and will get in to combat faster (and has the option of twined devourers which is very nasty).

I would maybe consider turning the warriors into a single Tyrant Prime and getting a Trygon Prime as an alternative to the Tyrant as a suggestion however. I think in smaller games this will be the better option.

Purplenewt
14-02-2013, 14:04
Slightly off topic but as it was mentioned above, a friend who uses tyranids is thinking of using the swarmlord but hasnt as the bone sabres don't say they ignore armour as bone swords do and we werent sure where to find confirmation 1 way or the other.

More on topic I play against my friends tyranids a lot and while his first list was slaughters he's been altering his list (option choices not new models and now our games are very close most of the time. I should point out that we use a huge amount of terrain in our games which does help wim close in with the short range weapons and close combat guys.

Bieren
14-02-2013, 14:21
So all troops are ok to take?
And what About fast attaca fly Guys?

Flogger
14-02-2013, 14:41
No. Tyranids are awesome. But nearly everything in the codex but for 4 units (tervigons, trygons, doom of malantai and hive guard) are overcosted and too expensive for what they do. They're a different army and usually you will win games because you swarm your opponent. 2-3 Tervigond and LOTS of gaunts will win the game for you because of the sheer number of models on the table.


Slightly off topic but as it was mentioned above, a friend who uses tyranids is thinking of using the swarmlord but hasnt as the bone sabres don't say they ignore armour as bone swords do and we werent sure where to find confirmation 1 way or the other.

The bone sabres are bone swords. Thus they ignore armour saves, force an leadership test on 3D6 if taking any wounds and if you fail you die instantly. The bone sabres have an additional bonus which is granting 4+ invulnerable save to the Swarmlord as well as forcing opponent to re-roll succesful invulnerable saves.

williamsond
14-02-2013, 14:44
For troops Hormagaunts with poison work very well ( 3 attacks per model wounding on a 4+ regardless, rerolling any missed hits on a 1). For a very effective troop unit try drop spore poding 20 Termagants with devourers, ths works very well 20 giving 60 ST4 shots on the turn they arrive. They will abuse most infantry in a very bad way regardless of what their armour save is and the spore pod is a MC so counts for line breaker and can contest objectives.

Flogger
14-02-2013, 15:19
For troops Hormagaunts with poison work very well ( 3 attacks per model wounding on a 4+ regardless, rerolling any missed hits on a 1). For a very effective troop unit try drop spore poding 20 Termagants with devourers, ths works very well 20 giving 60 ST4 shots on the turn they arrive. They will abuse most infantry in a very bad way regardless of what their armour save is and the spore pod is a MC so counts for line breaker and can contest objectives.

I always play 2 of those units, sometimes 3. Together with dakka-flyrants with preferred enemy they are a lethal combo! I was at the ETC qualification tournament in Denmark with two flyrants and to of those dakkagaunt units in pods and didn't lose a single game. It's awesome!

metro_gnome
14-02-2013, 15:33
The bone sabres are bone swords. Thus they ignore armour saves, force an leadership test on 3D6 if taking any wounds and if you fail you die instantly.The bone sabres have an additional bonus which is granting 4+ invulnerable save to the Swarmlord as well as forcing opponent to re-roll succesful invulnerable saves.
Um no... Bone Sabres are not Bone Swords...
The Swarmlord is AP2 because it is a Monstrous creature... and Monstrous creatures have Smash...
Bone Sabres simply have the instant death rule... there is no need to roll against leadership...
They also force successful invulnerable saves to be rerolled (which you have correct)...
the Swarmlord's CC 4++ is granted by a separate ability called "Blade Parry"...


For troops Hormagaunts with poison work very well ( 3 attacks per model wounding on a 4+ regardless, rerolling any missed hits on a 1)
I would not upgrade your Hormies at all... all of this sounds nice...
but these gentlebugs are unlikely to make combat in any coherent fashion...
better to use them as great big distraction units... and for that keep them cheap...
Devilgaunts and Tervies are the only real troop choices... and minimum nillagaunts to make tervie troops...


Together with dakka-flyrants with preferred enemy they are a lethal combo!
I find Old Adversary wasted on Twin linked weapons...
there are better options for both it and the 25 points...

Flogger
14-02-2013, 15:39
I would not upgrade your Hormies... all of this sounds nice...
but these gentlebugs are unlikely to make combat in any coherent fashion...
better to use them as great big distraction units... and for that keep them cheap...
Devilgaunts and Tervies are the only real troop choices... and minimum nillagaunts to make tervie troops...


I find Old Adversary wasted on Twin linked weapons...
there are better options for both it and the 25 points...

IMO Hormagaunts should be fielded maxed out with both upgrades, or not at all. They also benefit greatly from Hive Commander so they can outflank. With S4 they can glance vehicles to death and wound marines on 4s with re-roll. Expensive but if you outflank them there can be useful. Not nearly as useful as 20 dakkagaunts in a pod though.

Dakkagaunts also make tervis troops so no need for regular ones.

Re-rolling 1s when wounding on 2s ensures you wound everything. And also ensures that your 60 shots from dakkagaunts re roll 1s. There is no way to better spend 25p.

Azulthar
14-02-2013, 15:54
I fall in the "less upgrades is better" camp with the 'nids.

I must say, they've been performing a lot better in 6th than in 5th, is my experience. I think Biomancy and the new Fearless are the main buffs.

williamsond
14-02-2013, 16:16
I used to say no to upgrades but now I have had some success with them I love them. as for old adversary it is brilliant the amount of ones I've re-rolled to wound is staggering along with the 6 inch bubble catching other units it makes the 60 Dakkagaunt shots much more devastating, definitely worth the points IMO.

Akwikone
14-02-2013, 17:44
The Swarmlord is I think about the nastiest thing in close combat in 40K and even has the edge in a bloodthirster (the only thing I know of with higher WS) but it has to get in to combat to do damage and it will be a big fire magnet from the get go if your opponent is clued up. .

The Avatar of Khaine also has WS10, but I see him run as a lightly more support role with his fearless bubble.

Bonzai
14-02-2013, 19:46
Tyranids have a narrow range of competitive options. But those options are competitive and do ok.

metro_gnome
15-02-2013, 06:51
There is no way to better spend 25p.
Well i'm not really sure why you would be this close to your Devilgaunts with your Flyrants...
but I was commenting on the practical uselessness of adding preferred enemy to TL weapons…
I don’t know about you… but I use my massed TL S6 weaponry to peel hull points from vehicles… where OA offers nothing…
For the one or two turns that I *might* strafe an infantry unit? Yeah I can think of a dozen better things to do with 25 points…
But yes there are much much better uses for OA than Flyrants… I believe I said so…
But for nearly all of these targets OA really belongs on a different Tyrant build…

About upgrading your gaunts… this would all work fine if you were guaranteed assaulting units with no shooting in the open…
But as that is *never* the case… all you are doing is guaranteeing the loss of more points when you get shot up (and by overwatch)…
It is better to keep them cheap… or as you say, on the shelf… they are hardly a great troop choice after all…

Still no opponent can ignore a 30 strong unit of anything entering from board edge…
They will have to devote a considerable amount of firepower to neuter this unit...
or pay some serious consequences... no matter how many upgrades you have…
As a huge fast distraction unit they can take the heat off of your major players for a solid turn…
and that has merit... but it is much better to pay 180 points for the privilege than 300… srsly…

As to the OPs question… I use nids as a training army…
New players find it very encouraging to slaughter countless termagants in a blur of severed limbs…
But I will struggle with this army even against the greenest n00bs… and will often find myself behind…
I take that evidence (anecdotal though it may be) as a proof of the shortcomings of the Cruddex…

SideshowLucifer
15-02-2013, 14:14
The nids work fine as an army, but the internal balance of the codex is just awful. I find that when I field lists of things people say suck, my opponents have no idea how to fight it and I do well. My suggestion is to play what you like and have fun. It is a tough fight with nids currently because of the point costs of many of the models, but it's fun never the less.

Bonzai
15-02-2013, 14:33
Ok I only play In a club so no competion yet.

And I realy like the Tyrannofex whit rupture canon.
Already got the model and ready to paint.

But now I thinking to Add some more like a battlion box if iets worth it.
and as hq a Hive whit wings or swamplord

Just some advice regarding the Tyrannofex. Rupture Cannon looks nice on paper, but it is really underwhelming. You are better off using the Acid spray and another template. You pay a lot for two BS3 shots, and for the most part Hive Guard will do far more for far less points. The Tyrannofex'es niche isn't anti-tank. It's counter assault. It has a 2+ save, so it is good at taking down power weapon heavy squads. With 6 wounds, and T6, and possibly bolstered with Endurance, it can tie up squads that can chew through anything else in your army.

williamsond
19-02-2013, 08:47
I ran a none cookie cutter tyranid drop list at a tourney this weekend just gone and managed a respectable 3rd place, the only army i struggled against was the warp quake spam greyknights who screwed up my battle plan. but to summerise Nids are great and while some lists are better than others there is alot of room to use differnet stuff and still win games or atleast have fun.